Has LKY traded Singapore's liberty for security?
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Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security. -Thomas Jefferson
Many people said Singapore is a safe country or is it not. Has LKY traded Singapore's liberty for security? -
We don't even have real economic security.
The trade-off was never fully beneficial. -
gilded cage
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Why glided and why cage?Originally posted by mistyblue:gilded cage -
Don't think is a cage. If Singapore is cage then why people can migrate and travel freely?
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I'm willing to trade some of my liberty for security. But thats just me.....
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Yes and he's been very successful at it.. we citizens are not entirely faultless for letting LKY trade S'pore's liberty for this so-called "security" today.. we were naive to hand everything on a golden platter to him and stand by watching silently as those who saw the danger of spoke up and were cut down one by one.
However we are only as caged as we allow ourselves to be. The mind is humanity's most powerful weapon. Regain control of one's own mind and one will obtain freedom. There's no such things as "we have no choice". We do have choices.. it's just we keep making the wrong ones out of fear. -
i like thomas jefferson.
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Thomas Jefferson and benjamin Franklin are great men.
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Liberty in dictionary means the state of being free from oppression or imprisonment. A right or privilege. We may be free to travel freely, but are we free from being oppressed? Are we free to excercise human rights?Originally posted by hloc:I'm willing to trade some of my liberty for security. But thats just me..... -
Yes i am. I don't feel 'oppressed' living here. Human Right is just a word. I want my right to live in country with low crime..... to have safety even in the middle of the the night when i'm going home. That my Woman folks will have little chance of sexual attack.Originally posted by (human):Liberty in dictionary means the state of being free from oppression or imprisonment. A right or privilege. We may be free to travel freely, but are we free from being oppressed? Are we free to excercise human rights?
Human Right is worthless if criminal make use of it to escape. If we are indeed SOOOO oppressed, u and others here would have long ago been arrested..... but since we are all still here....... -
Peace and Prosperity through Fear .
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Originally posted by hloc:
You don't feel oppress when they raised GST and give excuses to help the poor at the same time they are hiking thier salaries which is already million of dollars without any resistance?
[b]Yes i am. I don't feel 'oppressed' living here. Human Right is just a word. I want my right to live in country with low crime..... to have safety even in the middle of the the night when i'm going home. That my Woman folks will have little chance of sexual attack.
Human Right is worthless if criminal make use of it to escape. If we are indeed SOOOO oppressed, u and others here would have long ago been arrested..... but since we are all still here....... [/b] -
Those are separate issues. The government has done well to ensure the security of Singaporeans, at a time when we are probaby the most favoured target of terrorists in Asia, given our relationship with the US.Originally posted by (human):You don't feel oppress when they raised GST and give excuses to help the poor at the same time they are hiking thier salaries which is already million of dollars without any resistance?
Raising GST to fund workfare makes sense to me.
Salary hike for ministers is linked to pay rise in the private sector. I feel ministers' pay should also be linked to their counterparts in Hong Kong, because they are our closest competitor and we should not price ourselves out of the market. -
You reminded me of one article posted by a US citizen.
http://www.spywareinfo.com/newsletter/archives/2005/oct13.php#privacy -
Wrong wrong and wrong. Don't tie economic issues with liberty and security.Originally posted by (human):You don't feel oppress when they raised GST and give excuses to help the poor at the same time they are hiking thier salaries which is already million of dollars without any resistance?
Nearly all topics in Speakers' Corner is about money. Turn one round, it's still money.
If according to your definition of liberty (taken from the dictionary), we are not in any way oppressed. If we are, sgForums wouldn't have exist. It's like posting such topics in STOMP or YoungPAP forums and getting yourself banned.
That's my view of course.
Be rational. The government did tell us in advanced that they are going to raise salaries and we have had discussions, both online and offline. It's not as if the government didn't inform us and increase it.
True, we can't put up any resistance, but that's a separate issue. -
Did we even have any liberty to start with?
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Are they protecting you from terrorism exclusively or are they protecting this regime? Some events are not mutually exclusive - and you don't need a rocket scientist to work that one out.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Those are separate issues. The government has done well to ensure the security of Singaporeans, at a time when we are probaby the most favoured target of terrorists in Asia, given our relationship with the US. -
HAHA! You have to take a dig at him here huh.Originally posted by walesa:Are they protecting you from terrorism exclusively or are they protecting this regime? Some events are not mutually exclusive - and you don't need a rocket scientist to work that one out.
In my opinion, it's both - protecting their regime and citizens as well. -
Both.Originally posted by walesa:Are they protecting you from terrorism exclusively or are they protecting this regime? Some events are not mutually exclusive - and you don't need a rocket scientist to work that one out.
If they don't protect us, they will lose votes.
Yet at the same time, no country will want to be bombed and be flattened. -
Let them lose the vote. Time for regime change.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Both.
If they don't protect us, they will lose votes.
Yet at the same time, no country will want to be bombed and be flattened.
Remember 11/03/2004 in Madrid? Thanks to Osama's agents, GLBTs in Spain are now allowed to marry. -
Oh how he'll love that, he'll be loving it.Originally posted by iveco:Let them lose the vote. Time for regime change.
Remember 11/03/2004 in Madrid? Thanks to Osama's agents, GLBTs in Spain are now allowed to marry.
Still, I feel that security and liberty cannot be taken apart. What should be done is to educate more Singaporeans about all forms of security, especially the non-traditional forms of security.
Do we have human security? Do we have the security of our individuality and beliefs? Do we have job security that is commensurate with your talent (given the erosion of real meritocracy)? Do we have retirement security?
Military and economic security secures a place for liberty to flourish, sadly this is not taking place here. Liberty is the only thing that strengthens a nation when her citizens feel that they CAN contribute on their own terms and therefore feel bonded. The more you instruct your citizens, the long run would show the idea of security becomes that of regime security, and not an all-encompassing national security discourse.
Then again, not many people can appreciate the strategic necessity for greater political reform and liberalisation, especially those who only chase the dollar and view the world in fiscal terms. -
I think Singaporeans will still vote PAP if the bombings happen.Originally posted by iveco:Let them lose the vote. Time for regime change.
Remember 11/03/2004 in Madrid? Thanks to Osama's agents, GLBTs in Spain are now allowed to marry.
Still, it's a bad idea for it to happen even if PAP loses the citizens' votes. Too great a price to pay. We lose more than money, we lose the trust and relationships. -
You've just answered my question succinctly. At the end of the day, it's not your exclusive interests that they're protecting - protecting you is a necessity for their own interests...Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Both.
If they don't protect us, they will lose votes.
Yet at the same time, no country will want to be bombed and be flattened. -
You have " trust " and " relationships " with criminals?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:I think Singaporeans will still vote PAP if the bombings happen.
Still, it's a bad idea for it to happen even if PAP loses the citizens' votes. Too great a price to pay. We lose more than money, we lose the trust and relationships. And I thought mutual benefits are the only things that are maintaining the status quo at present...