Has LKY traded Singapore's liberty for security?
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Since we won't get anything out from LKY, why not ask Singaporeans?Originally posted by (human):Lets get back to topic. Has LKY traded Singapore's liberty for security? Or have Singaporeans traded their liberty for security?
And please, not just the forumers here.
Between safety and oppression, what would they choose? -
This regime is a poor imitation of the Nazis - don't insult first-world tyrants with an ability to truly make an impact (as tyrants) by comparing them with their poorer imitations...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Do you seriously think this current level of comfort, could not be brought at a lower cost to individual human rights and freedoms? Perhaps the Germans could have justified that for all the evils the Nazi regime brought, it still greatly raised Germany out of the slums?
Where did this belief in improvement-at-all-costs-and-squashing-out-all-possible-compliants eventually lead Germany?
While the Nazis remain the most brutal and ruthless despots in recent memory, you can't discount the economic progress achieved. In all honesty, with an industrial output second only to that of the US in September 1939 (and all that before you consider the state of the German economy when Hitler took power in 1933), it is indeed admirable given its economic achievements - further accentuated by the fact no other regime comprising of despots and tyrants have been able to match in a similar span of time. That very fascist economic model, in essence, was what this economy was modelled on for the best part of a quarter of a century...
Having said all that, you can't expect too much from a generation schooled and raised with an overdose of fascist propaganda to even realise this regime has any parallels with the Nazis, can you? -
just something got up my mind. does informing us in advance about the rise in their salaries makes any different? they will still raise it no matter what the people say. it is the same as fare hike. u think they will stop it if the citizen say no? they most probably get some idiots to go on the tv to say that it is only a few cents increase. it is still affordable and so on.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Wrong wrong and wrong. Don't tie economic issues with liberty and security.
Nearly all topics in Speakers' Corner is about money. Turn one round, it's still money.
If according to your definition of liberty (taken from the dictionary), we are not in any way oppressed. If we are, sgForums wouldn't have exist. It's like posting such topics in STOMP or YoungPAP forums and getting yourself banned.
That's my view of course.
Be rational. The government did tell us in advanced that they are going to raise salaries and we have had discussions, both online and offline. It's not as if the government didn't inform us and increase it.
True, we can't put up any resistance, but that's a separate issue. -
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson.Originally posted by freedom4ever:just something got up my mind. does informing us in advance about the rise in their salaries makes any different? they will still raise it no matter what the people say. it is the same as fare hike. u think they will stop it if the citizen say no? they most probably get some idiots to go on the tv to say that it is only a few cents increase. it is still affordable and so on.
The even has shown that they have gone against the will of the people. The constitution or people ought to end such power given to those who have no sense of justice. Can anyone tell that according to the laws of state can such act be considered as an act of tyranny? -
There's nothing in your Constitution that precludes tyranny - you could go on arguing about what constitutes tyranny, but there's no hard-and-fast definition.Originally posted by (human):Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson.
The even has shown that they have gone against the will of the people. The constitution or people ought to end such power given to those who have no sense of justice. Can anyone tell that according to the laws of state can such act be considered as an act of tyranny? -
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. -Thomas JeffersonOriginally posted by walesa:There's nothing in your Constitution that precludes tyranny - you could go on arguing about what constitutes tyranny, but there's no hard-and-fast definition.
People of good conscience have you people forsaken what is right, just and remain silent? -
Of course it does.Originally posted by freedom4ever:just something got up my mind. does informing us in advance about the rise in their salaries makes any different? they will still raise it no matter what the people say. it is the same as fare hike. u think they will stop it if the citizen say no? they most probably get some idiots to go on the tv to say that it is only a few cents increase. it is still affordable and so on.
If they inform, at least you got the chance to discuss about it. As I said, we have a chance to say no against it, it's not that we aren't given that chance. But whatever the top decides to do despite public outcry, is another issue.
If they don't, it's called outright oppression. -
If the top decides to go ahead with an unpopular decision, it shows they are out of touch. This is the clear-cut truth.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Of course it does.
If they inform, at least you got the chance to discuss about it. As I said, we have a chance to say no against it, it's not that we aren't given that chance. But whatever the top decides to do despite public outcry, is another issue.
If they don't, it's called outright oppression. -
Exactly. My feeling.Originally posted by iveco:If the top decides to go ahead with an unpopular decision, it shows they are out of touch. This is the clear-cut truth. -
Originally posted by iveco:
Is it just unpopular, or unjust?
If the top decides to go ahead with an unpopular decision, it shows they are out of touch. This is the clear-cut truth. -
Hm.. Do CPF seems like traded liberty for security? People called CPF as a force saving system made by the government.Originally posted by (human):Lets get back to topic. Has LKY traded Singapore's liberty for security? Or have Singaporeans traded their liberty for security? -
Well, that is a good thing. We need to retire comfortably one day. In fact, Canberra is now trying to get more working people to contribute to their superannuation funds. Planned reforms to the system are in the pipeline.Originally posted by (human):Hm.. Do CPF seems like traded liberty for security? People called CPF as a force saving system made by the government. -
Like it or not people have to contribute CPF, like it or not young men reaching 18 have to do National service. The policies seems like security has come before liberty. These has shown that liberty has been traded for security. Any one don't see it?
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To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. -Thomas Jefferson
Anyone agree with this? -
Lock yourself in a 4 X 4 cell, you will be very secure, but no freedom.Originally posted by hloc:I'm willing to trade some of my liberty for security. But thats just me.....