Wooing the super-rich (from BT)
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Originally posted by Gazelle:
Since we are talking about the future. I donÂ’t think it make any sense to compare a develop country to a fishing village.
then why did you quote the price of flats 25 years ago if you're talking about the future? you can't even be coherent with what you're saying how to make sense?
Your concern has been, because of 1 year of 5% rise in HDB property you are anticipating that this will affect our the ability of young couple buying HDB flat in future. Hence my question to you is that, can you use 1 single point to plot a trend into the future?
using another point that you provided, 25 years ago, i can say property prices have outpaced salaries.
Did you know that the 100 reference point used to be a 105 sometime ago and todayÂ’s 105 point mark would be 100 marks in the future. I am wondering if you could explain, why an economy need to be aiming for 100 instead of above 100?
given that inflation is so low, some time ago and now wouldn't make much difference to the actual value unless you're talking about 10, 20 years. an economy should be aiming for a 100 so as to take uncertainty away from housing prices so that ordinary folks can concentrate on working and contributing to economy instead of speculating on property prices.
Yes, I cannot understand why you say that majority of NTU grad in 2006 are accountants. Would you be kind enough to give us some datas
then i can only say that you don't have the common sense to know that a sizeable portion of accountants would push the overall average salary upwards. would you be so kind as to help yourself?
I am just rebutting your claim that there are no real wage increases in Singapore, just because you prefer to exclude civil servants and people working in the financial sector. Hence what is your basis that job creation and wage increase in financial and government sectors are not important.
your rebutt is lame. huge salary increases for the civil service and finance industry doesn't inply salaries have increased across the board. what is your basis that salary increases in finance and government sectors makes up for stagnation in other sectors?
Because we want to know what F-type industry you are in so others can avoid following your foot steps.
just tell them not to become F-type like yourself
What I am asking is yes or no.
i've answered. what more do you need?
and I donÂ’t see why having highest immigration rate is not expected from one of the fastest growing country in the past 30 to 40 years.
our growth is normal when you compare it with say korea, taiwan and hong kong. i don't see them as having such high immigration rates.
You are saying that Singapore is more prosperous than the whole of China and India.
no, i'm saying we have a much higher per capita income.
Would you mind telling us: -
a) When was this
b) How much more is more.
c) Did you grandfather move back to cities Shanghai or HK after they made a fortune in Singapore?
a) grandfather came around 1950s / 1960s
b) life was so bad that coming here to do odd job was better
c) granddad's time was different from ours. throughout his life, china was much poorer than singapore (per capita basis). china started to boom after he passed away. so if granddad were still around, he might wish to go back and enjoy the prosperity in china's coastal cities now.
NahÂ…there is a difference between government discounting Singaporeans and Singaporeans deserve to be discounted.
the difference is in the perspective. the former reflects the feelings of the masses, the latter is the attitude of the govt.
Please donÂ’t put words into my mouth, I am discounting Singaporeans like you who thinks that the world must stop and wait for you to buy your dream home and dream car.
i am not putting words into your mouth, you sprouted them yourselves. "singaporeans are no big deal" was said by you, not me, i merely quoted you. i dare you to quote me anywhere in this thread for having used the words "dream home" or "dream car" to express what i desire or intend to get. if you can't, then we know who's the one putting words into mouths. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
Do you actually believe that you can contribute to this country talking nonsense in this forum?
judging from the response of fellow forumates, i think othewise, you're the one talking nonsense in this forum and your contribution cannot be far from the same nonsense.
Would appreciate if you could provide more information about this CEO you are talking about and his pay package, or else there is no basis for discussion.
you demonstrate little knowledge of local CEOs. i suggest you go read up on whitbread and chartered semicon before talking about basis for discussion.
Is there a need for concern to see 2 years of growth after 10 years of slump?
is there a need to delay house purchase for 5 years?
If you cant see beyond this year, than who could you make the statement that the property boom in the 80s and 90s was because Singapore anticipated an influx of FT to Singapore.
no need to see beyond this year. it's clear to everyone. it is the reason why property developers are snapping up properties for en bloc. property developers themsevles say so - that their current frenzy is in anticipation of mass influx of FTs.
My question to you is, does an influx of rich peoples and a booming tourist industry benefit taxi drivers? Yes or No?
your question is dumb and not worth answering. a smarter question is how many rich persons are required to support just one taxi driver?
If you donÂ’t know how much shareholding Temasek has in Comfortdelgro, than how can you say that majority of the companyÂ’s earning will go to government and not other shareholders?
how do you know i don't know? just because you don't know doesn't mean i don't know.
Would appreciate if you could be more specific about which piece of information you are referring to from government website. As far as I am aware, the current surge in property prices are not island wide and that is something fundamentally different from what we see in the past. So I would like to ask, what other factors are the same besides giving me the lame answer like “improving economy”
it has yet to spread to the rest of the island but it is bad enough. it is fundamentally different from the past in the sense that this time round, the demand has been jacked up by govt import of FT. an improving economy is probably the single most consistently important but not 'lame' factor.
I am simply questioning your view that booms in service industry will contributes to a surge in property price and vice versa.
and i have given my views.
Hence I donÂ’t see why you should divert your attention to FT. Plus, unless you know how many unsold housing and unused land are left in Singapore, if not I donÂ’t see how you can make the judgment that the supply of housing in Singapore is limited.
i did not divert attention for FT is the primary culprit for our current predicament. the fact that there are unsold flats in jurong west simply shows that they are god foresaken corners of the island that nobody wants, so i'm still entitled to my judgement.
I donÂ’t see a need to reply to your grandfather story.
because you have no answer to it? i take that as a white flag from you.
Could you explain why there is such a drastic surge in property price in the 80s and 90s? It is because Singaporeans can anticipate the economy of Singapore 20 years in advance?
the difference from then till now, as i've said for the unteempth time is that this time round, govt is boosting our population by 60%. the property developers know that and they are going for the kill now. no need to wait for 20 years. govt announced already and we are all in the know. where have you been all this while? timbuktu?
When you say there is a huge herd in FT in Singapore I am sure you must have read the statistic on the growth % of FT in Singapore. As such, could you give us a brief of what it the growth rate of FT in Singapore from 1990 to 2006
i saw it. there is a sudden jump over the last two years which coincides with our current property price spike. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
I was rebutting your claim that there is no difference between high tech manufacturing and low tech manufacturing in Singapore. If you think so highly of China, can you tell us when do you think they will be able to provide the same IP protection in Singapore?
your rebutt is lame. i did not claim that "there is no difference between high tech and low tech manufacturing". i merely said that services is better than high tech manufacturing because high or low tech, manufacturing is still manufacturing, dependent on machines and automation that is not beyond the chinese.
LKY mentioned 15 years for china to develop its own IP to circumvent any IP protection we might have. i give the same number of years for china to embrace world standards in IP protection.
If you are referring to the tele-marketing and customer service hotline, even though they are not physically with the customers, they still have direct contact with the customers, and this is only one segment of the service industry.
not just them but the entire service industry holds more promise for english speaking populations than not. india is living proof.
I am just rebutting your claim that these rich people doesnÂ’t create job and the service industry is not important to this country.
the rebut is lame for it doesn't address the fact that many rich people is required to create job for just one person but occupies the same amount of space if not more than another person.
What does the chef do after cooking? What dumb question is that?
i don't know, screw you?
SPA, gym, golf courses, dance, café, night clubs, insurance, etc
and they go to spa, gym, golf, dance, clubbing everyday? they must be really jiat liao bi. how many rich FTs is required to support just one gym? 100? 3000? how many rich club members do you need to support one night club? 5000?
Again, you are twisting the facts and arguing like a child.
this is what you always do when you run out of arguments
I am just rebutting your claim that influx of rich doesnÂ’t benefit Singaporeans. Period!!
your rebut is lame for it doesn't address how much that benefit is and totally disregards cost.
Stop twisting my words, did I say influx of rich only or did I say influx of rich and booming tourist industry that benefit taxi drivers? And please taxi and occupancy rate of condominium has no relationship.
no tongue twisting here, just exposing your lame logic. since we are talking about rich FTs and not rich tourists (unless you consider tourists to be FTs as well), then the relevant portion of what you said is "influx of rich ... benefit taxi drivers" which is perfectly crap. they are both influenced by demand - super rich FT demand which is the topic of our discussion here.
Are you saying that if your wife has had many suitors in the past, she is actually importing man into her life 50% of the time?
no, but if your wife has slept with many men in the past and present, she's a slut and you're a cuckold
Are you sure the Australia and Malaysia are not wooing foreign talents and rich people? Have you check how much the property prices in Australia have risen over the years?
what is their wooing compared to ours? do you find their govts declaring they're boosting the population by 60%? should we also compare aussie minister's pay with our minister's pay too?
Please get your facts right before talking.
my facts are right. yours is bullshit.
baseless? I think you better read what you wrote. Or should I give you a list of what you have said?
yes baseless. you are the one who should read what you wrote. be my guest. -
Here is a list of things you should all "learn" from snow.
1) Singapore men should place their wife preference before their own parents.
2) The cheapest HDB flat in Singapore is $300K
3) You should live where you work, hence if you are waiter working in Orchard, you should deserve to be working in Orchard
4) There shouldnÂ’t be any bungalow in Singapore, because every home should be of the same floor area and plot ratio
5) NTU grad from 2006 are majority accountants
6) A healthy economy is an economy that aims for “zero” growth.
7) People working in financial and government sectors are lease important to Singapore employment.
Influx of rich immigrant and tourist doesnÂ’t benefit taxi drivers.
9) A surge in service industry will cause property prices to boom and vice versa.
10) There is no difference to Singapore if we have high-tech or low-tech manufacturing -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
This is what gazelle says:
1) Singapore men should place their wife preference before their own parents.
This is what snow leopard says:
by staying near our parents, the wishes of both spouse and parents can be fulfilled
This is what gazelle says:
2) The cheapest HDB flat in Singapore is $300K
This is what snow leopard says:
if staying near parents, who in turn stays in established towns is a must , then skyrocketing HDB prices in established towns is a concern and ought to be addressed
This is what gazelle says:
3) You should live where you work, hence if you are waiter working in Orchard, you should deserve to be working in Orchard
Gazelle also said this:
"Where you live really depends on where you work"
So he is actually contradicting himself.
This is what gazelle says:
4) There shouldnÂ’t be any bungalow in Singapore, because every home should be of the same floor area and plot ratio
This is what snow leopard says:
bungalows, on a per plot of land basis, shouldn't be cheaper than HDBs
This is what gazelle says:
5) NTU grad from 2006 are majority accountants
This is what snow leopard says:
the fact that there is a sizeable proportion of accountants tilts average NTU grad pay upwards
This is what gazelle says:
6) A healthy economy is an economy that aims for “zero” growth.
This is what snow leopard says:
government policies shouldn't cause housing prices, especially HDB prices to shoot up suddenly because the HDB is a major expenditure item for common households that significantly affects savings and retirement funds
This is what gazelle says:
7) People working in financial and government sectors are lease important to Singapore employment.
This is what snow leopard says:
people in financial and government sectors prospering doesn't mean life is good for the rest of the population.
This is what gazelle says:
9) A surge in service industry will cause property prices to boom and vice versa.
This is what snow leopard says:
it depends. a property boom may or may not bring about a surge in service industry and vice versa. given the current situation, it probably will not.
This is what gazelle says:
Influx of rich immigrant and tourist doesnÂ’t benefit taxi drivers.
This is what snow leopard says:
First of all, the topic is "Wooing the super-rich" which refers to immigrants not tourists.
secondly, how many taxi drivers can one rich FT support? 50? 100? more likely than not, it is the other way round, 50 rich FTs is needed to support just one taxi driver.
This is what gazelle says:
10) There is no difference to Singapore if we have high-tech or low-tech manufacturing
This is what snow leopard says:
the difference between high or low tech manufacturing isn't significant as to be insurmountable by the chinese. languages on the other hand cannot be as easily acquired to the standard that good services demands -
I would appreaciate if you could quote what you have written instead of trying so hard to rephrase what you didnt say.
And just because you couldnt afford to be living in the prime HDB estate, the Singapore government has to change this economic policy to suit your GREED?
What kind of brainless, selfish and ignorant Singaporean are you? -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
I would appreaciate if you could quote what you have written instead of trying so hard to rephrase what you didnt say.
what i've written is clear for all to see. some minor rephrasing is needed to get through your thick brain even though it doesn't change its original meaning or intent.
And just because you couldnt afford to be living in the prime HDB estate, the Singapore government has to change this economic policy to suit your GREED?
it is more than an issue of affordability. it is also about unfairness, of rich people paying less for bungalows in prime land compared to poor people paying more for their HDBs in non prime land, on a per plot land basis.
the economic policy of the singapore government is greed when it shamelessly pays itself millions while the population languishes amidst soaring prices, including housing prices.
What kind of brainless, selfish and ignorant Singaporean are you?
these remarks best describe you considering you cannot defend your arguments and constantly contradict yourself. you show yourself to be selfish because you pay no heed to rising property prices that is a major concern to all singaporeans. you are also selfish because you think that as long as government and finance employees are doing well, the rest of the population does not matter. ignorance is evident throughout your postings. -
I didnt know that all land in Singapore are entitle to the same plot ratio.Originally posted by snow leopard:it is more than an issue of affordability. it is also about unfairness, of rich people paying less for bungalows in prime land compared to poor people paying more for their HDBs in non prime land, on a per plot land basis.
the economic policy of the singapore government is greed when it shamelessly pays itself millions while the population languishes amidst soaring prices, including housing prices.
If you think bungalows are cheap, why not ask you mama and papa get one for you instead of whining here like a cry baby? -
1) You havent proof to us that it is the accountant grad from NTU that is commanding the biggest salary increase, while grad from other majors are not experiencing an increase in starting pay.Originally posted by snow leopard:these remarks best describe you considering you cannot defend your arguments and constantly contradict yourself. you show yourself to be selfish because you pay no heed to rising property prices that is a major concern to all singaporeans. you are also selfish because you think that as long as government and finance employees are doing well, the rest of the population does not matter. ignorance is evident throughout your postings
2) Name me a country or cities of similar standard of living whereby the property prices doesnt appreciate over time.
3) The whole purpose of your arguement is that you cant afford to buy a $300K HDB flat. And for that reason, the Singapore should not target growth and property prices must remain flat until you are old enough to buy one. Right? -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
I didnt know that all land in Singapore are entitle to the same plot ratio.
don't be such an idiot, no one is saying all plots should be the same. i've been saying, for the unteempth time, that on a per plot basis, ordinary folks shouldn't pay more for HDBs compared to rich folks paying less for their prime area bungalows.
If you think bungalows are cheap, why not ask you mama and papa get one for you instead of whining here like a cry baby?
you're being an idiot again. the issue is not about bungalows being expensive or not from one buyer's perspective. the issue is about the land that the bungalow occupies, which is being acquired on the cheap considering that it is actually worth so much more collectively to an entire HDB block of families.
you sure think like a baby, pity your papa and mama -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
1) You havent proof to us that it is the accountant grad from NTU that is commanding the biggest salary increase, while grad from other majors are not experiencing an increase in starting pay.
the only thing you prove, wtih your inability to understand my NTU accountant reasoning, is your absolute stupidity. i say again, NTU accountants getting more from the financial boom will boost the average NTU grad pay. if you still cannot understand this, i think you're not even fit to post here.
2) Name me a country or cities of similar standard of living whereby the property prices doesnt appreciate over time.
why should we let our property prices balloon like all other countries? should we also clamp down ministerial pay like all other countries do?
3) The whole purpose of your arguement is that you cant afford to buy a $300K HDB flat. And for that reason, the Singapore should not target growth and property prices must remain flat until you are old enough to buy one. Right?
that cannot be the purpose for if it were, then i would be arguing that the $300K flat should be slashed to say $200K. but i never said that. instead, i said, as i say for the unteempth time, the $300K flat shouldn't become $350K in two months. the sharp increase is what i'm arguing against which is in turn caused by an influx of FTs imported by our govt. so again, you're not using your brains but merely sprouting nonsense.
i'm not saying we should maintain price for 5, 10 years so that i can afford it but as long as wage increases can afford it. hence again, you're a sore loser resorting to wrongful accusation simply because you've been beaten in every aspect of the argument. -
Willing buyer willing seller, if you dont have the money just get yourself something more affordable and dont expect the country to slowdown for whinersOriginally posted by snow leopard:don't be such an idiot, no one is saying all plots should be the same. i've been saying, for the unteempth time, that on a per plot basis, ordinary folks shouldn't pay more for HDBs compared to rich folks paying less for their prime area bungalows.
If you think bungalows are cheap, why not ask you mama and papa get one for you instead of whining here like a cry baby?
you're being an idiot again. the issue is not about bungalows being expensive or not from one buyer's perspective. the issue is about the land that the bungalow occupies, which is being acquired on the cheap considering that it is actually worth so much more collectively to an entire HDB block of families.
Could you please explain to me how bungalow can be cheaper than HDB when bungalow are usually located in land which have restricted plot ratio and height limits? Are you making silly assumption or are you expecting that Singapore should give you a piece of land the size of istana so that you and your family cna build enough houses for the next 10 generation? -
Originally posted by snow leopard:
This is what you wrote: "if you think deeper into what you read in the papers, you'd realise that NTU grads comprise a significant numbers of accountants so their pay jump is merely a reflection of the current boom in the finance sector"
the only thing you prove, wtih your inability to understand my NTU accountant reasoning, is your absolute stupidity. i say again, NTU accountants getting more from the financial boom will boost the average NTU grad pay. if you still cannot understand this, i think you're not even fit to post here.
My question to you is,
a) What is the % of accounting student that grad in 2006
b) Do you have statistic to show that accounting grad are the only people that is experiencing an increase in starting pay.
c) Do you have facts to show that an accounting grad is getting higher starting salary than engineering student?
And please dont come up with all sort of crap if you cant support with facts.Originally posted by snow leopard:
Like I said this before, you are not fit to be living in Singapore, maybe a comminist North Korea will be more suitable for you.
why should we let our property prices balloon like all other countries? should we also clamp down ministerial pay like all other countries do?Originally posted by snow leopard:
Sore loser?? haha...could you quote me the sentence which you said that HDB flat should not increase from $300K to $350K in 2 months. (PS> please stop making up story to cover your BS)
that cannot be the purpose for if it were, then i would be arguing that the $300K flat should be slashed to say $200K. but i never said that. instead, i said, as i say for the unteempth time, the $300K flat shouldn't become $350K in two months. the sharp increase is what i'm arguing against which is in turn caused by an influx of FTs imported by our govt. so again, you're not using your brains but merely sprouting nonsense.
i'm not saying we should maintain price for 5, 10 years so that i can afford it but as long as wage increases can afford it. hence again, you're a sore loser resorting to wrongful accusation simply because you've been beaten in every aspect of the argument.
I thought you were crying like a baby because Singapore HDB prices has gone up by 5% after about 10 years of slump and that an increase of $15K per year is not healthy for Singapore. -
I booked a hotel room to see the National Day Parade and fireworks. I love my country.
-
Originally posted by Gazelle:
Willing buyer willing seller,
as much as people are willing to buy flats in holland / bukit timah, sellers are found wanting because the area is largely reserved for bungalows. so willing buyer willing seller is really a myth because the govt controls where HDBs are built which severely constricts our choices.
if you dont have the money just get yourself something more affordable
it's not a matter of whether i can or cannot afford but whether or not we should pay for price hikes caused by govt policies
and dont expect the country to slowdown for whiners
the country doesn't speed up by importing more FTs, it merely gets more crowded and expensive ... although it does contribute more slaves to toil for the govt. as for whinnig, it is what you always resort to when you lose an argument.
Could you please explain to me how bungalow can be cheaper than HDB when bungalow are usually located in land which have restricted plot ratio and height limits?
why should those restrictions be there in the first place? considering that even restriction on casinos can be lifted shows that restrictions are nothing but the whim and fancy of the govt.
Are you making silly assumption or are you expecting that Singapore should give you a piece of land the size of istana so that you and your family cna build enough houses for the next 10 generation?
it is a silly assumption indeed and it is yours and yours alone.
This is what you wrote: "if you think deeper into what you read in the papers, you'd realise that NTU grads comprise a significant numbers of accountants so their pay jump is merely a reflection of the current boom in the finance sector"
My question to you is,
a) What is the % of accounting student that grad in 2006
b) Do you have statistic to show that accounting grad are the only people that is experiencing an increase in starting pay.
c) Do you have facts to show that an accounting grad is getting higher starting salary than engineering student?
a) slightly over 10% which is sizeable and significant
b) since when did i say that accounting grads are the only people experiencing pay increase?
c) the accounting grad doesn't need to get higher salary than the engineering grad, it just needs to get much more than its predecessors as compared to engine grads.
And please dont come up with all sort of crap if you cant support with facts.
Today, 22 May 2007, "Fresh out of school, on a higher starting wage", Derrick A Paulo
"By comparison, companies employing entry-level engineers may offer between $2,400 and $2,800"
"By comparison, the Singapore Management University's (SMU) latest employment survey found that its accountancy graduates from last year reported average salaries of $2,880 - 28 per cent more than in 2005. Thanks to recent changes in starting pay at the Big Four accounting firms, newbie accountants can draw between $2,800 and $3,200 in the private sector"
From these two statements and given that accountant pay shouldn't deviate much between universities, we can infer that salary increase was greater for accountants than engineers.
Like I said this before, you are not fit to be living in Singapore,
you are not fit to comment on that
maybe a comminist North Korea will be more suitable for you.
why should i go to North Korea to be ruled by another dictator?
Sore loser?? haha...could you quote me the sentence which you said that HDB flat should not increase from $300K to $350K in 2 months. (PS> please stop making up story to cover your BS)
"two months ago, prices around my area is $330K. It is $360K now". so?
I thought you were crying like a baby because Singapore HDB prices has gone up by 5% after about 10 years of slump
not crying like a baby but expressing a genuine concern. PM Lee and Tharman have reiterated time and again that constant worry is a virtue of the govt so i wonder if you think that their virtue is one of "crying like a baby".
not 10 years of slump but 10 years of stability.
and that an increase of $15K per year is not healthy for Singapore.
it is not healthy because it is more than salary increases can cope. -
the essence of this debate is whether or not FTs, especially rich FTs bring significant benefits to singaporeans. gazelle's main argument is that FTs create tremendous job opportunities for the locals which we have seen is nothing but a fallacious untruth.
one FT doesn't need 100 waiters to serve him. he doesn't need 50 taxi drivers to fetch him around. the truth is the other way round. you need 200 FTs to support a restaurant of 20 workers. you need 10 FTs to support one taxi driver.
on the other hand, the crowdeness caused by the extra people has caused property prices to sky rocket. it directly impoverishes the people because more money set aside for housing means less money for living expenses or retirement. quality of life diminishes.
thus, we can conlude that the benefits of wooing the rich is insignificant and does not justify the grave damages that it causes. -
Update list of BS
1) Singapore men should place their wife preference before their own parents.
2) The cheapest HDB flat which Singaporeans should buy is $300K
3) You should live where you work, hence if you are waiter working in Orchard, you should deserve to be living in Orchard Road
4) There shouldnÂ’t be any bungalow in Singapore, because every home should be of the same floor area and plot ratio
5) NTU grad from 2006 are majority accountants
6) A healthy economy is an economy that aims for “zero” growth.
7) A surge in employment from financial and government sectors are not important to Singapore
8.) Influx of rich immigrant and tourists doesnÂ’t benefit taxi drivers.
9) A surge in service industry will cause property prices to boom and vice versa.
10) There is no difference to Singapore if we have high-tech or low-tech manufacturing
11) We need HDB flats in Orchard Road, CBD, Marina Bay and even inside Istana
12) Maximum wage increase for Singaporeans is $15K per year
13) SMU and NTU are same university -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
Update list of BS
1) Singapore men should place their wife preference before their own parents.
2) The cheapest HDB flat which Singaporeans should buy is $300K
3) You should live where you work, hence if you are waiter working in Orchard, you should deserve to be living in Orchard Road
4) There shouldnÂ’t be any bungalow in Singapore, because every home should be of the same floor area and plot ratio
5) NTU grad from 2006 are majority accountants
6) A healthy economy is an economy that aims for “zero” growth.
7) A surge in employment from financial and government sectors are not important to Singapore
8.) Influx of rich immigrant and tourists doesnÂ’t benefit taxi drivers.
9) A surge in service industry will cause property prices to boom and vice versa.
10) There is no difference to Singapore if we have high-tech or low-tech manufacturing
11) We need HDB flats in Orchard Road, CBD, Marina Bay and even inside Istana
12) Maximum wage increase for Singaporeans is $15K per year
13) SMU and NTU are same university
ladies and gentlemen, do take note, Gazelle has just updated the list of his own bullshit.
i guess the reason why he sticks to a listing is because he has no answers to my arguments. -
Originally posted by snow leopard:
Originally posted by Gazelle:
It seems that the easiest way to ''save face'' and restore ''hurt pride'' is to distort the picture - and ''hope'' to make some honourable exit.
Update list of BS
1) Singapore men should place their wife preference before their own parents.
2) The cheapest HDB flat which Singaporeans should buy is $300K
3) You should live where you work, hence if you are waiter working in Orchard, you should deserve to be living in Orchard Road
4) There shouldnÂ’t be any bungalow in Singapore, because every home should be of the same floor area and plot ratio
5) NTU grad from 2006 are majority accountants
6) A healthy economy is an economy that aims for “zero” growth.
7) A surge in employment from financial and government sectors are not important to Singapore
8.) Influx of rich immigrant and tourists doesnÂ’t benefit taxi drivers.
9) A surge in service industry will cause property prices to boom and vice versa.
10) There is no difference to Singapore if we have high-tech or low-tech manufacturing
11) We need HDB flats in Orchard Road, CBD, Marina Bay and even inside Istana
12) Maximum wage increase for Singaporeans is $15K per year
13) SMU and NTU are same university
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ladies and gentlemen, do take note, Gazelle has just updated the list of his own bullshit.
i guess the reason why he sticks to a listing is because he has no answers to my arguments.
It becomes easier to distort the picuture when the debate and arguments begin to pile up the pages, and with each posting the position shifts like the sand on a beach being manipulated by the changing direction of the waves.
It require keen senses to keep focus on the patterns that keep forming.
Making a ''general summary'' of one's purposefully distorted understanding of someone else's views is another ingenious way of shifting the ground - and one can actually get away with it, if the opponent is sleeping.
Unfortunately, as I had said before, ''the leopard made a meal out of the gazelle''.
It is part of nature's cycle, pre-ordained for the gazelle to be the food for the leopard's survival.
Had the gazelle not lingered on an tempt the leopard, it would have survived the mauling - but pride and vanity takes precedence in a gazelle.
Pathetic story for the Animal World. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
I can't agree with you on this point, I think the snow leopard is way much smarter than to have this gazelle as meal, the snow leopard knows that he will get food poisoning from this contaminated gazelle carcass.
[b]Originally posted by snow leopard:
Unfortunately, as I had said before, ''the leopard made a meal out of the gazelle''.
It is part of nature's cycle, pre-ordained for the gazelle to be the food for the leopard's survival.
Had the gazelle not lingered on an tempt the leopard, it would have survived the mauling - but pride and vanity takes precedence in a gazelle.
Pathetic story for the Animal World.
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The snow leopard will probably just kill it for fun and leave it for the maggots and beetles to finish it off.
hehehe -
Originally posted by Atobe:
We are still searching hign and low for the news article which support your claim about PM Badawi's visit to Singapore to push and thanks our government for awarding the Sentosa IR to Genting International.
[b]Originally posted by snow leopard:
It seems that the easiest way to ''save face'' and restore ''hurt pride'' is to distort the picture - and ''hope'' to make some honourable exit.
It becomes easier to distort the picuture when the debate and arguments begin to pile up the pages, and with each posting the position shifts like the sand on a beach being manipulated by the changing direction of the waves.
It require keen senses to keep focus on the patterns that keep forming.
Making a ''general summary'' of one's purposefully distorted understanding of someone else's views is another ingenious way of shifting the ground - and one can actually get away with it, if the opponent is sleeping.
Unfortunately, as I had said before, ''the leopard made a meal out of the gazelle''.
It is part of nature's cycle, pre-ordained for the gazelle to be the food for the leopard's survival.
Had the gazelle not lingered on an tempt the leopard, it would have survived the mauling - but pride and vanity takes precedence in a gazelle.
Pathetic story for the Animal World.
[/b] -
Since you agree to his points, I would like to ask you some simple question.Originally posted by maurizio13:I can't agree with you on this point, I think the snow leopard is way much smarter than to have this gazelle as meal, the snow leopard knows that he will get food poisoning from this contaminated gazelle carcass.
The snow leopard will probably just kill it for fun and leave it for the maggots and beetles to finish it off.
hehehe
a) Do you agree that freehold bungalow in Singapore is cheaper than HDB flat?
b) Do you agree that the recent rise in 2006 NTU fresh grad salary is mainly contributed by accounting grad?
c) Do you agree that there should not be any restriction to where the government build HDB flat. ie. we should even have HDB flat right in the middle of orchard road, that those flat should not be allowed to apprecaite by $15K per year.
d) Do you agree HDB price should remain flat?
e) Do you agree that an influx of rich people and tourist will not benefit this country, especially people working in the service industry.
I hope this is not a case of another blind leading the blind. -
From other forumers statements, you form your own statements which is totally different from the forumers' original statement, then you asked that they refute that statement.
We have a common consensus that you are intellectually challenged and deluded. Our common consensus does not include agreeing to those statements (points), purported and concocted by you, which is totally different from the intended reasoning of the original contributor. -
Before you could agree with Snow L's argument I am sure you must have read what he said and fully agree with what he said right?Originally posted by maurizio13:From other forumers statements, you form your own statements which is totally different from the forumers' original statement, then you asked that they refute that statement.
We have a common consensus that you are intellectually challenged and deluded. Our common consensus does not include agreeing to those statements (points), purported and concocted by you, which is totally different from the intended reasoning of the original contributor.
Yes or No, Thats all I want to know. -
I agree with his original statement, NOT those adulterated by you.Originally posted by Gazelle:Before you could agree with Snow L's argument I am sure you must have read what he said and fully agree with what he said right?
Yes or No, Thats all I want to know.
But I find it unproductive making arguments with you to make you understand, since it took like 3-4 to make you understand a simple phrase like "free market business". Which according to you, "there is no such word" because economic textbooks only say "free market economy". Where I go on to paste links, where business journalist use this word. But you just keep going on refuting it. I mean it's up to you to see what you want, I can only point out to you that there is a porthole in your path, but if you insist on falling into it, nobody can help you.