Wooing the super-rich (from BT)
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Originally posted by walesa:
This goes to show why the government is complain about the lack of creativity in this country. Somehow you have demostrate that your mind can only think in 1 direct.
[b]
For someone whose IQ barely exceeds that of a dog's (and I might even be insulting a dog's intellect in the process), it's obviously not all that surprising and mind-boggling that you can't comprehend the picture.
For anyone to believe LV Sands could have a strictly-demarcated 30-70 distribution for the IR's operations revenue is mind-boggling, really. Barring ignorant pets whose survival depends on the daily dosage of fascist propaganda, it'd be hard to imagine anyone would actually find your argument remotely coherent. Let's take your silly argument at face value and analyse on that basis : so you're effectively suggesting restricting the size of the casino to 3%-5% the size of the entire IR, that would actually constitute an effective way to ensure the IR's don't make more than 30% of its revenues from gaming avenues?
Have you ever set foot in a casino(and I literally mean a modern, state-of-the-art casino which has a complex of its own; not your own underground gambling den)? Have you any idea how many gaming tables are there in these casinos and how much revenue these tables generate? It's not rocket science for anyone who has set foot in such casinos to know the area of a casino hardly provides a viable reflection of how much gaming revenue the casino generates, in respect to the size of its non-gaming complex as a whole. For all the grand ideology your propaganda machine has fed you with, obviously the precedences set out by casinos in Macau, Las Vegas and Monaco will do little to boost your ailing case. Macau's gaming industry alone was worth USD3.4billion alone in 2003 - for your warped theory to hold true, I suppose we're supposed to believe LV Sands will be capable of generating some USD7.9billion on its own from its non-gaming revenues? (Should you fail to convince any sane folks, you can try selling that notion to your dog though...)
Evidently, if an ignorant mug like you should genuinely believe the gaming revenues of a casino could be curtailed based on the size on which the casino operates, you ought to get your head checked.
b]
a) By limiting the floor space use for casino, the IR will have more floor area to cater for other business.
b) 30% is a relative number, hence to acheive that 30% target (not rules and I mentioned) you could either reduce the size of the casino or you could enlarge the non-gaming business. And what our government did was both.
i) limit the size of the casino
ii) Increase the size of the non-gaming business.
Please dont bored me with all your BS analogy. -
Are you stupid, oblivious to facts or simply stuck in your own world where fascism reigns? I suppose anything that doesn't have Integrated Resort as a label isn't comparable to the IR's you have in Singapore, eh?Originally posted by Gazelle:Like I mentioned to you before and I will do it again since you have demostrated to be someone with pretty low IQ.
Echelon Place cost US$4b, but it is not an integrated resort, it is a piece of land purchase by the company to develop Echelon Resort which cost only US$2.7b. A balance US$1.3b is make up of other 50/50 JV business with hotel operators.
Marina Bay Sands is wholly owned subsidiary of LV Sands and they paid US$3.6-3.8b to purchase the land and develop the IR.
See the difference my boy?
Using your beloved Wikipedia as a source, Echelon Place is effectively a replacement for Stardust Resort & Casino. From your trusted source, "This will be an 87 acre multi-use project with a 140,000 square foot casino, 4 hotels providing 5,300 rooms, 25 restaurants and bars, the 650,000 square foot Las Vegas ExpoCenter, and a convention center with 1 million square feet of space. The Echelon Resort will be a 3,300 room hotel owned and operated by Boyd. The other hotels are expected to be a Shangri-La Hotel, a Delano Hotel, a Mondrian Hotel, and the Echelon Tower." Failing which, you could still refer to Echelon Las Vegas' site to get a clue of what the whole place is about.
While I knew you had problems with basic arithmetic, I never knew you had a provlem with words. Are you an illiterate? Do you understand what it means if I should tell you the USD4 billion construction cost for the Echelon Place is shouldered by Boyd Gaming Corporation exclusively? While there're plans in place for other hotels to operate within its premises, it doesn't render them a part of Boyd Gaming Corporation, does it?
If your stupidity isn't enough to compound matters, you might want to know that "one of the world's two most expensive IR's" (at least, to your warped mind) is actually jointly developed by Genting International and Star Cruises. So if your argument that Echelon Place isn't more expensive than LV Sands' Marina Bay venture just because there're strategic partners in the vicinity of Echelon Place who commit further investments to Boyd Gaming Corp's investments, how does it make sense to suggest Genting International and Star Cruises' joint venture is actually worth, on the basis of each individual entity (ie.in terms for idiots, viewing Genting International and Star Cruises' as seperate and independent entities), the SGD5.5billion investment?
If Echelon Place doesn't qualify as an Intergrated Resort, your intellect certainly wouldn't even match a gazelle's. Then again, how could anyone espousing such drivel even have the intellect of a gazelle in the first place? I'd most certainly have to retract my comparison of likening your intellect to a dog's - afterall, I'm sure that'd be an insult to the canines out there. -
That's worth learning, certainly. Given your limited intellect and a persistent knack of being convinced SGD5.05 billion > USD4 billion (not to mention a belief that money can be printed at will as well), how is it humanly imaginable to subscribe to the notion the Ruppiah is actually a volatile currency? Going by the logic SGD5.05 billion > USD4 billion, it's hard to believe there's any currency more volatile than the USD, is it?Originally posted by Gazelle:OK I learn something new again, S$ is pegged to Ruppiah, which is one of the most volatile currency in recent time
(Disclaimer : The abovementioned is exclusive knowledge reserved for the intellectually-disabled Gazelle) -
Of course the fascists are proud of by-products like you - you're a living proof and role model of what someone inundated with excessive propaganda could and should become.Originally posted by Gazelle:This goes to show why the government is complain about the lack of creativity in this country. Somehow you have demostrate that your mind can only think in 1 direct.
a) By limiting the floor space use for casino, the IR will have more floor area to cater for other business.
b) 30% is a relative number, hence to acheive that 30% target (not rules and I mentioned) you could either reduce the size of the casino or you could enlarge the non-gaming business. And what our government did was both.
i) limit the size of the casino
ii) Increase the size of the non-gaming business.
Please dont bored me with all your BS analogy.
a) It's sheer stupidity (though I can understand your limited intellect does not permit you to understand this) to assume by demarcating land sizes of a complex for a designated business activity, one could achieve a projected output that is tangibly rigid. If you need any convincing, tell me if two stores of the same area in a shopping mall actually generates the same revenue.
b) This is even more comical than a). Then again, what else can I expect from an illiterate? For your drivel to work, can you conjure up some tangible formula to reveal the correlation between the revenue generated from a particular business activity and the land area upon which those activities are conducted?
Go on being the nonsensical propaganda mouthpiece this regime would be so proud of - if nothing, it certainly makes for some comical reading... -
I am surprised that you will take the trouble criticising statements from me that you believe to be nonsense, and I am sure the government do not need such unproductive persons to help them doing a great job shooting themselves in the foot.Originally posted by Gazelle:
Originally posted by Atobe:
You are certainly brilliant and I have no intention to outshine your efforts.
I suppose you have some telepathic ability to believe that LV Sands and Genting are dumb enough to take in a smaller share of the 70/30 arrangement in order to recover their $10 BILLION and $5 BILLION respective investments ?
If you are smart enough to believe that they will accept a smaller 30% share, do you not think that one will have to be very concerned as to the methods that they will employ to recover the invested amounts within a short lease period ?
In any case, if the 70% were to be swallowed by the SINGAPORE Inc, how much do you think the larger ordinary Singaporeans will benefit from it, other than those that happened to be linked directly by jobs, and indirectly by trade with the IRs ?
With your unflinching support of the Singapore Government, I suppose you will believe that this Government will reduce GST and income taxxes, lower education fees, lower health costs, increase the budget to charity homes to look after the aged and the infirmed, increase the hopital and medical budget to subsidise the high costs paid by Singaporeans ?
Judging by the track record of this Singapore Government, all you have is a fat hope, and the bulk of the additional income will go into the accounts of GIC and Temasek, as well as to the Private Accounts of the Cabinet Ministers and Civil Servants with more higher pay increases.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Crticising your nonsense doesnt mean that I am supporting the government.
You are described by someone to be a 'simpleton' and unfortunately ''I glad to say that I totally agree''.
Your earlier argument was the Singapore IRs will only benefit Singapore INC.
And I glad to say that I totally disagree with you
a) No GLC is involved in the IR, Genting Int is a listed company here in Singapore and their financial reports are open to investors.
No GLC is directly involved in the IR projects, but that does not mean that the GLCs will not be the biggest beneficiary of the IR.
The fact that the two pieces of reclaimed land were sold at such high prices by SINGAPORE Inc, already sounded the First Round win to them. The subsequent stamp duties on the multi-billion dollar contracts would have sound the winning bell for Round 2 to SINGAPORE Inc. Guess what comes next, more stamp duties on all the Main and Sub-Contracts awarded to the various foreign and local building contractors and vendors, PLUS the 7% GST applied on every invoiced transactions on each delivery to these two projects would have rung the bells for Round 3 and 4 to Singapore Inc - and all these are even before the Main and Sub-Contractors can even total their Profit and Loss on the Projects until at least 2 or 3 years into the future.
If you are not involved in the construction phases of both the IRs, what benefit are you hoping to get from the IRs at this Stage ?
How have you benefitted from all the exhibtions that Singapore has hosted over the last 10 years : the Food & Hotel Asia series, the Singapore Auto-Car, the PC Shows, World Bank and IMF Meet, and other major events in the exhibtion calendar ?
b) How do you explain the MICE business which LV Sands intend to bring into Singapore. Doesnt this bring tourists and foreign income to singapore?
The MICE business that LV Sands intend to bring into Singapore will end up with more MICE visitors making some contributions to the LV Sands cash registers. All that LV Sands need is a high turnover or throughput of visitors, with each spending anywhere between $100 to $1000, preferably high rollers throwing $1,000,000 a night. LV Sands will need a high volume of visitors in order to recover their $10 BILLION investment over the lease period of their investment.
The MICE events and other Family Entertainment is just a camouflage to make this Casino in Singapore a more palatable appearance to Singaporeans - who have been accustomed to the preachings of clean living by LKY. This turnaround is already hard enough to explain to the First Generation Founding Fathers, who are still alive, and who have already voiced their displeasure of the various policies beginning with their stepping down at the age of early 60s, while LKY continue into his mid-80s.
How simple minded can you possibly get ?
d) What about the unviersal theme park? Doesnt that attract families to Singapore? Do you have reason to believe that the whole family with their children will all end up at the blackjack table gambling away?
MacDonalds invest in advertisements to attract the very young, so that they will continue to recognise MacDonald Clown and familiar with the taste of French Fries and Big Macs till they enter their grave.
Do you think that MacDonald is helping your kids, or are they helping themselves ?
Having a Family Theme Park will make the visit to Singapore more palatable for any Family, and will add another avenue for LV Sands and Genting to EXTRACT Cash from the expeditures of the entire Family.
The Adults throw their monies at the Casino, while the kids throw more monies into rides and thrills.
At the end of it all who is the beneficiary ? LV Sands or Singaporeans ? Especially when the entire family do not even visit the shopping malls, or the heartlands where you are probably employed - for cheap shopping, or sight seeing, as the attractions at LV Sands and Genting will be too strong a magnet for them to resist.
All the existing thrill and rides in Singapore - from the propaganda Singapore Experience, to the various pathetic Volcano Mountain and Undersea World at Sentosa - are all dated and stale when compared to the more professionally planned entertainments that LV Sands and Genting-Universal Studios are bring in.
To sum it all, where is the benefit for you and other Singaporeans ?
The biggest winner will be SINGAPORE Inc, and both LV Sands and Genting.
If you cannot even understand the concepts of ''Planned Economy'' and ''Free Market {business ?}'' - it will be too taxxxxing to help you to understand the ''concept of INCOME''.
""Judging by the track record of this Singapore Government, all you have is a fat hope, and the bulk of the additional income will go into the accounts of GIC and Temasek, as well as to the Private Accounts of the Cabinet Ministers and Civil Servants with more higher pay increases""
what is your definition on INCOME? Is it tax revenue from gaming of from the IR operator? or isit tourist dollars spend within the IR? or isit total tourist dollar spent in the country, as a result of having an IR?
If you want a definition - it will be far easier to get one from google; surely you are capable of typing a simple entry into Google Search ? -
With the amount of flak you are getting, it is about time that you should be given a consolation - at least for your pathetic but dubious effort to be accurate.Originally posted by Gazelle:
Originally posted by Atobe:
Yes, I suppose you wll believe that the entire 4,483,000 residents in Singapore (up to June 2006) will benefit from the employment and construction activities ?
Do you not know that for every single foreign talent employed, he will very likely bring in two or three more to work with him ?
Singaporeans and PRs will likely be swamped by cheap foreign labor at the lower levels; while qualified Singaporeans will have to compete with qualified foreign talents in an unprotected Singapore employment market that the Singapore Government has refused to regulate for the benefit of Singaporeans.
You seem to get excited with the micro numbers, but do not have the capacity to handle the bigger impact from larger digits, is there some unnatural innate fear to handle those bigger effects from bigger numbers ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1) The no. of Singapore residents is 3.6m, not 4.483m. Please get your facts right.
Was it YOUR writing that the ''no of Singapore residents is 4.483m'', or did you read in a twisted manner of what I had written that the ''entire 4,483,000 residents in Singapore'' ?
As I have mentioned before, be less anxious to prove me wrong, and with some clear level headed thinking , perhaps you may just deserve a consolation win awarded by me.
Yes, of course, how silly, you mean the catalytic effect of expenditures from someone pushing more expenditures by others, and the cycle continues.
2) Of course everbody in Singapore will be able to benefits from the IR projects. If you have a job at the IR, you will spend money outside the IR, and when you spend money outside the IR, you create job outside the IR. And furthermore, IR will also help to attract more tourists to Singapore and they will ofcourse spend more time outside the IR and hence contribute to revenue to other sector of the economy.
How much of an ecnomist are you to believe that such a simplistic approach can occur in an economy that is totally regulated by the heavy hand of the Singapore Government controlling SINGAPORE Inc ?
During each of the last three economic downturn in 1987, 1997 and 2002, how effective was the economic ''pump-priming'' that the Singapore Government had implemented to boost the economy ?
Even the IMF had studied the unexpected negative and failed catalytic effect of its funding programs, how confident are you of the propaganda that you have been fed with ?
You should try to work with the figures and exercise your grey matters, so that it will grow. Constant 'spoon Feeding' is not good for your mental health, as it will retard growth, and worsen a pathically childlike mentality.
3) "Do you not know that for every single foreign talent employed, he will very likely bring in two or three more to work with him"
Please quantify the above statement. If what you say is true, the population of FT in Singapore will multiply by 3 times every year. Can this be true? or you are just speculating again?
Can you digest the numbers provided by the Singapore Department of Statistics ? Try chewing on this:
According to the Statistics Department they explained that Total Population include Singapore Residents and Foreigners; while Singapore Residents include only Citizens and PRs.
Year .. Total Pop .... Foreigners ... FT Nos Add ... % Change
1999 .. 3,958,700 .... 729,000 ...
2000 .. 4,027,900 .... 754,500 ... 25,500
2001 .. 4,138,000 .... 812,100 ... 57,600 ... 125.88%
2002 .. 4,176,000 .... 793,100 ... (19,000) ... (132.99%) (SARS effect)
2003 .. 4,186,100 .... 748,800 ... (45,100)
2004 .. 4,238,300 .... 753,400 ... 5,400
2005 .. 4,341,800 .... 797,900 ... 44,500 ... 724.07%
2006 .. 4,483,900 .... 875,400 ... 77,500 ... 74.16%
Year .. SGP Residents ... New Additions ... % Change
1999 .. 3,229,700
2000 .. 3,273,400 ... 43,700
2001 .. 3,325,900 ... 52,500 ... 20.14%
2002 .. 3,382,900 ... 57,000 ... 8.57%
2003 .. 3,438,100 ... 55,200 ... ( 3.16%)
2004 .. 3,484,900 ... 46,800 ... (15.22%)
2005 .. 3,543,900 ... 59,000 ... 26.07%
2006 .. 3,608,500 ... 64,600 ... 9.49%
With the natural birth rate in Singapore being so low, the Year-on-Year percentage increases of both the Foreigners and PR's are shocking.
continue below -
continue from above
Oringally posted by Gazelle
Try digesting this speech in Parliament by the Minister of Manpower Dr Ng Eng Hen
4) "Singaporeans and PRs will likely be swamped by cheap foreign labor at the lower levels; while qualified Singaporeans will have to compete with qualified foreign talents in an unprotected Singapore employment market that the Singapore Government has refused to regulate for the benefit of Singaporeans.
You seem to get excited with the micro numbers, but do not have the capacity to handle the bigger impact from larger digits, is there some unnatural innate fear to handle those bigger effects from bigger numbers ?"
a) I am sure you have chosen to ignore the facts that there is a foreign labour quota set by our government to ensure that there is a minimum no. of Singapore workforce within the company. [/b]
Sir, let me turn now to our foreign labour policy. I have explicitly articulated that allowing companies in Singapore access to foreign manpower is a strategic asset.
In other words, it is not something we can do without. DPM Lee showed earlier in his Budget round-up speech how foreigners helped to meet manpower demand when the economy did well and buffered the losses when we were not doing so well.
But there is another point. Our companies become less competitive if we uncouple this local/FW package. It is not “one FW in, one local out”.
Instead, in many companies, it could very well be “one FW out, two locals out”
This policy, where a company must hire a certain number of Singaporeans before it can hire some foreign workers, and with an added levy imposed, has enabled companies to get their manpower and afforded some protection to Singaporeans. It's a delicate balancing act.
If we squeeze companies too much they will relocate or close down.
What quota are you referring to if you can understand the implication of the speech ?
Your information is outdated.
What is written as a matter of principle, is not actually implemented; and even if implemented, it is done selectively as a punitive or political tool against someone who dare to challenge the Power of ONE.
Your impression is twisted according to your own twisted perception of what you prefer not to see and understand.
b) You are giving me that impression that you are either incapable of competing for jobs with FT or you are making assumption that Singaporeans are just as weak as you.
If you must be a plagiarist, at least do it with some degree of aplomb, originality, and some accuracy.
c) You seems to get all excited about speculating and manipulating numbers, is that what you call the ability to see BIG picture?
Counting the number of times you trip with your own erroneous views, and judging from the manner that others have treated you with pitiful disdain - you must consider that your opinion is treated as pathetically irrelevant and meaningless. -
Have you considered that the reason why anyone has trouble understanding you is due to your own paucity of understanding of business models; and is the cause of all these unnecessary arguments ?Originally posted by Gazelle:
Original post by Atobe:
You are certainly brilliant and I have no intention to outshine your efforts.
I suppose you have some telepathic ability to believe that LV Sands and Genting are dumb enough to take in a smaller share of the 70/30 arrangement in order to recover their $10 BILLION and $5 BILLION respective investments ?
If you are smart enough to believe that they will accept a smaller 30% share, do you not think that one will have to be very concerned as to the methods that they will employ to recover the invested amounts within a short lease period ?
In any case, if the 70% were to be swallowed by the SINGAPORE Inc, how much do you think the larger ordinary Singaporeans will benefit from it, other than those that happened to be linked directly by jobs, and indirectly by trade with the IRs ?
With your unflinching support of the Singapore Government, I suppose you will believe that this Government will reduce GST and income taxxes, lower education fees, lower health costs, increase the budget to charity homes to look after the aged and the infirmed, increase the hopital and medical budget to subsidise the high costs paid by Singaporeans ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I dont think you know exactly what I am talking about and this obviouly shows your limited understanding on the business model of Venetian LV and Singapore IR. For the sake of proofing your lack of knowledge in this subject, I will again explain to you.
Your habit of twisting and turning from one issue to another - is also a simple reflection of your pathetic position of having nothing more worthwhile to add, but you insist on plodding on to get yourself knocked further ?
You seem to have cleverly dropped all the other issues that you have found yourself stonewalled by clear cut and clean details; and you are keeping the fires burning on yourself with some other mundane issues in your determined search for the last feeble straw to break my firewall.
Good luck, kid.
No one can beat your expertise at recognizing nonsense, afterall you have been fed with so much nonsense by this Government, you must be quite an expert by now to criticize mine.
An IR consist of many businesses units, and they include, Hotels, Restaurant, Exhibition Hall, Theater, Retails, and the casino.
What th 70/30 target means is that for every $100 revenue generated by the IR, 70% will have to come from non-gaming businesses. And this will ensure that the IR operator (Sands and Genting) will have to crack their brains to think of other feasible businesses which is inline with our government idea of increasing tourist income and create more jobs for singaporeans.
And Sands has managed to convince that they can help develop the MICE industry, while Genting is able to offer a world class GATED theme park.
Like I said again, criticizing your nonsense is not equal to supporting the government.
How much more simplistic and gullible can you possibly be ?
It looks like you are NOT an opportunistic entrepreneur, which explains for your pathetic position in being able to only repeat like a burnt CD to spout out whatever that has been carefully digitised and burnt into your Memory Disk. You must be similar to a Re-Writeable CD-ROM disk that allow this Government to update with more of their nonsensical propaganda - as and when appropriate and at their leisure.
Are both LV Sands and Genting in the 'Entertainment Business' or are their Principal Expertise in the Gaming Industry ?
Is their wealth made from the Gaming Industry, or the Family Entertainment Theme Park Industry ?
Surely the Family Entertainment Theme Park Industry cannot match the amount of money that can be made from the Gaming Industry; and surely anyone will only be too happy to have got the Gaming License and will do anything to appease the Singapore Government towards this end.
The MICE business and the Family Theme Park Entertainment Industry will only serve to add more customers to the traditional ''captive market'' of hardcore gamblers - all of which can simply total up to a larger pool for LV Sands and Genting Group to absorb the monies that are brought to their Casino - whatever the 70/30 or other arrangements that are imposed on them.
Think like an entrepreneur, and not as a kid all wrapped up with the newspaper that you are reading from the comics strip outwards. -
Originally posted by walesa:
I have already post a link directly to echelon resort website, not wikipedia as you have mentioned. please spend some time to click on MEDIA and the press release dated Jan 4 2006 and read what does this US$4b consist of.
Are you stupid, oblivious to facts or simply stuck in your own world where fascism reigns? I suppose anything that doesn't have [b]Integrated Resort as a label isn't comparable to the IR's you have in Singapore, eh?
Using your beloved Wikipedia as a source, Echelon Place is effectively a replacement for Stardust Resort & Casino. From your trusted source, "This will be an 87 acre multi-use project with a 140,000 square foot casino, 4 hotels providing 5,300 rooms, 25 restaurants and bars, the 650,000 square foot Las Vegas ExpoCenter, and a convention center with 1 million square feet of space. The Echelon Resort will be a 3,300 room hotel owned and operated by Boyd. The other hotels are expected to be a Shangri-La Hotel, a Delano Hotel, a Mondrian Hotel, and the Echelon Tower." Failing which, you could still refer to Echelon Las Vegas' site to get a clue of what the whole place is about.
While I knew you had problems with basic arithmetic, I never knew you had a provlem with words. Are you an illiterate? Do you understand what it means if I should tell you the USD4 billion construction cost for the Echelon Place is shouldered by Boyd Gaming Corporation exclusively? While there're plans in place for other hotels to operate within its premises, it doesn't render them a part of Boyd Gaming Corporation, does it?
If your stupidity isn't enough to compound matters, you might want to know that "one of the world's two most expensive IR's" (at least, to your warped mind) is actually jointly developed by Genting International and Star Cruises. So if your argument that Echelon Place isn't more expensive than LV Sands' Marina Bay venture just because there're strategic partners in the vicinity of Echelon Place who commit further investments to Boyd Gaming Corp's investments, how does it make sense to suggest Genting International and Star Cruises' joint venture is actually worth, on the basis of each individual entity (ie.in terms for idiots, viewing Genting International and Star Cruises' as seperate and independent entities), the SGD5.5billion investment?
If Echelon Place doesn't qualify as an Intergrated Resort, your intellect certainly wouldn't even match a gazelle's. Then again, how could anyone espousing such drivel even have the intellect of a gazelle in the first place? I'd most certainly have to retract my comparison of likening your intellect to a dog's - afterall, I'm sure that'd be an insult to the canines out there.
[/b]
Clue : Delano and Mondrain Hotel (50/50 JV)
http://www.echelonresort.com/main.html -
1) "The rupiah had traded at about 2000-3000 rupiah per 1 USD, but reached a low of 16,800 rupiah per dollar in June 1998" (Did USD ever drop to that kind of level?)Originally posted by walesa:That's worth learning, certainly. Given your limited intellect and a persistent knack of being convinced SGD5.05 billion > USD4 billion (not to mention a belief that money can be printed at will as well), how is it humanly imaginable to subscribe to the notion the Ruppiah is actually a volatile currency? Going by the logic SGD5.05 billion > USD4 billion, it's hard to believe there's any currency more volatile than the USD, is it?
(Disclaimer : The abovementioned is exclusive knowledge reserved for the intellectually-disabled Gazelle)
2) Are you sure the S$ is peg to rupiah? Do you understand the meaning of peg in the first place? -
a) Lets compare 2 bed room apartment vs. a 4 bedroom pent house. Am I right to say that the 4bedroom apartment can accomodate more people than the smaller one?Originally posted by walesa:Of course the fascists are proud of by-products like you - you're a living proof and role model of what someone inundated with excessive propaganda could and should become.
a) It's sheer stupidity (though I can understand your limited intellect does not permit you to understand this) to assume by demarcating land sizes of a complex for a designated business activity, one could achieve a projected output that is tangibly rigid. If you need any convincing, tell me if two stores of the same area in a shopping mall actually generates the same revenue.
b) This is even more comical than a). Then again, what else can I expect from an illiterate? For your drivel to work, can you conjure up some tangible formula to reveal the correlation between the revenue generated from a particular business activity and the land area upon which those activities are conducted?
Go on being the nonsensical propaganda mouthpiece this regime would be so proud of - if nothing, it certainly makes for some comical reading...
All the others you mentioned about are nothing but BS. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
a) Sheldon Adelson has personally created the one of the world largest trade show, call COMDEX before he sold it to softbank and he got himself in to gaming business. So his track record in the MICE industry is 2nd to none.
No one can beat your expertise at recognizing nonsense, afterall you have been fed with so much nonsense by this Government, you must be quite an expert by now to criticize mine.
How much more simplistic and gullible can you possibly be ?
It looks like you are [b]NOT an opportunistic entrepreneur, which explains for your pathetic position in being able to only repeat like a burnt CD to spout out whatever that has been carefully digitised and burnt into your Memory Disk. You must be similar to a Re-Writeable CD-ROM disk that allow this Government to update with more of their nonsensical propaganda - as and when appropriate and at their leisure.
Are both LV Sands and Genting in the 'Entertainment Business' or are their Principal Expertise in the Gaming Industry ?
Is their wealth made from the Gaming Industry, or the Family Entertainment Theme Park Industry ?
Surely the Family Entertainment Theme Park Industry cannot match the amount of money that can be made from the Gaming Industry; and surely anyone will only be too happy to have got the Gaming License and will do anything to appease the Singapore Government towards this end.
The MICE business and the Family Theme Park Entertainment Industry will only serve to add more customers to the traditional ''captive market'' of hardcore gamblers - all of which can simply total up to a larger pool for LV Sands and Genting Group to absorb the monies that are brought to their Casino - whatever the 70/30 or other arrangements that are imposed on them.
Think like an entrepreneur, and not as a kid all wrapped up with the newspaper that you are reading from the comics strip outwards.
[/b]
b) The theme park at RWS will be MANAGED by Universal Studio themselves, and the aquarium and museum will be managed by world player who have years of experience in their own field. What Genting Int is providing is the resources to build the hardware.
The whole idea of the IRs for the government is not go after the gamblers number, but tourists.
Please stop assuming that singapore government are stupid and what they have chosen are proposal which have least execution risk. -
Since you are capable to talking about the political reasons on why Genting win the Sentosa IR bid, I would have reason to believe that you will hava a great understanding of STB RFQ and our government's objective for the IR. Unfortunately, I think I have over estimated your knowledge on this subject.Originally posted by Atobe:Have you considered that the reason why anyone has trouble understanding you is due to your own paucity of understanding of business models; and is the cause of all these unnecessary arguments ?
Your habit of twisting and turning from one issue to another - is also a simple reflection of your pathetic position of having nothing more worthwhile to add, but you insist on plodding on to get yourself knocked further ?
You seem to have cleverly dropped all the other issues that you have found yourself stonewalled by clear cut and clean details; and you are keeping the fires burning on yourself with some other mundane issues in your determined search for the last feeble straw to break my firewall.
Good luck, kid.
Instead of blaming me, why not blame yourself for the lack of understanding.
The 70/30 target which our government is expecting from IR bidder are very basic and fundamental requirement and you only need common sense to understand the objective behind it.
Instead you have choose to be a smart aleck and come up with a whole bunch of stupid theories accusing government of this and that, and when someone challenge your logic behind your accusation, you start to twist and turn without providing any sensible reply. -
1) You have blamed the government of using Singaporeans tax money to fund the reclaimation of the land. (to support your argument that government is pampering the rich at the expense of the poor) And now you are saying that Singapore government sold the land to the IR bidder for very high price. Doesnt these statements contradict each other?Originally posted by Atobe:You are described by someone to be a 'simpleton' and unfortunately ''I glad to say that I totally agree''.
No GLC is directly involved in the IR projects, but that does not mean that the GLCs will not be the biggest beneficiary of the IR.
The fact that the two pieces of reclaimed land were sold at such high prices by SINGAPORE Inc, already sounded the First Round win to them. The subsequent stamp duties on the multi-billion dollar contracts would have sound the winning bell for Round 2 to SINGAPORE Inc. Guess what comes next, more stamp duties on all the Main and Sub-Contracts awarded to the various foreign and local building contractors and vendors, PLUS the 7% GST applied on every invoiced transactions on each delivery to these two projects would have rung the bells for Round 3 and 4 to Singapore Inc - and all these are even before the Main and Sub-Contractors can even total their Profit and Loss on the Projects until at least 2 or 3 years into the future.
If you are not involved in the construction phases of both the IRs, what benefit are you hoping to get from the IRs at this Stage ?
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2) Could you please explain what sort of stamp duties the government impose on contractors and sub contractor? Kindly please explain.
3) Suppose if the IR can create 20,000 new jobs for singaporeans and their residents, doesnt the families of these 20,000 employed workers benefits from the IR?
4) Suppose when when IR is up and running and Singapore is able to attract an addition 10m tourist to Singapore, doesnt that benefit Singaporeans as more tourist will be spending money in Singapore? -
1) Companies or businesses who have directly and indirectly benefited from such high profile event.Originally posted by Atobe:How have you benefitted from all the exhibtions that Singapore has hosted over the last 10 years : the Food & Hotel Asia series, the Singapore Auto-Car, the PC Shows, World Bank and IMF Meet, and other major events in the exhibtion calendar ?
The MICE business that LV Sands intend to bring into Singapore will end up with more MICE visitors making some contributions to the LV Sands cash registers. All that LV Sands need is a high turnover or throughput of visitors, with each spending anywhere between $100 to $1000, preferably high rollers throwing $1,000,000 a night. LV Sands will need a high volume of visitors in order to recover their $10 BILLION investment over the lease period of their investment.
The MICE events and other Family Entertainment is just a camouflage to make this Casino in Singapore a more palatable appearance to Singaporeans - who have been accustomed to the preachings of clean living by LKY. This turnaround is already hard enough to explain to the First Generation Founding Fathers, who are still alive, and who have already voiced their displeasure of the various policies beginning with their stepping down at the age of early 60s, while LKY continue into his mid-80s.
a) PICO ART that provide the stands seats for exhibition
b) Security companies
c) Transport companies such as taxi and those providing limosine services
d) Hotel in Singapore were all able to increase their room rate during those events
e) Hawker Centre, (I have personally seen IMF delegates going to Newton Circles and Adam Road food centre trying out local food)
f) Restaurants and F&B outlets
g) Retail outlet
h) Sentosa, Singapore Zoo, Bird Park etc.
g) Singapore was able to buy BMWs 5 and 7 series at heavily discounted price for cars used at the IMF.
h) Companies at Sim Lim Square and Funan Centre has been making tons of sales during PC Sales.
and the list will go on..
2) Again you are making the assumption that people who goes to LV Sands for meeting will only spend money at LV Sands. (Do you have anything to support your arguement on this?) Is singapore being build around the 2 IR? -
Are you saying that your father is still watch seaseme street at home? The whole idea of Mcdonald advertisement targeting at kids is because kids will bring along their parents to spend more money at restaurant. You suggesting kids getting addicted to the taste of Big Mac and fries that you will eat their burger till they die?Originally posted by Atobe:How simple minded can you possibly get ?
MacDonalds invest in advertisements to attract the very young, so that they will continue to recognise MacDonald Clown and familiar with the taste of French Fries and Big Macs till they enter their grave.
Do you think that MacDonald is helping your kids, or are they helping themselves ?
This must be one of the most stupid analogy I can ever imagine.
Again you have contradict yourself by suggesting that Family Theme Park will make the VISIT to Singapore more patatable for and family. (Am I right to say that by having a theme park, we will attract more tourist?)Originally posted by Atobe:Having a Family Theme Park will make the visit to Singapore more palatable for any Family, and will add another avenue for LV Sands and Genting to EXTRACT Cash from the expeditures of the entire Family.
The Adults throw their monies at the Casino, while the kids throw more monies into rides and thrills.
At the end of it all who is the beneficiary ? LV Sands or Singaporeans ? Especially when the entire family do not even visit the shopping malls, or the heartlands where you are probably employed - for cheap shopping, or sight seeing, as the attractions at LV Sands and Genting will be too strong a magnet for them to resist.
I am curious why someone who claim to be a singaporean will be againt tourist of coming to Singapore??
Again you are making stupid assumption that if tourist visit LV Sands or RWS, they will not spend money elsewhere and obviously you are look it as if it is a zero sum game.
What kind of rubbish are you talking about here ATOBE?
Again you are contradicting yourself. You are complaining that singapore family attractions here in singapore are stale, and at the sametime you are against of having a world class theme park like Universal Studio.Originally posted by Atobe:All the existing thrill and rides in Singapore - from the propaganda Singapore Experience, to the various pathetic Volcano Mountain and Undersea World at Sentosa - are all dated and stale when compared to the more professionally planned entertainments that LV Sands and Genting-Universal Studios are bring in.
To sum it all, where is the benefit for you and other Singaporeans ?
The biggest winner will be SINGAPORE Inc, and both LV Sands and Genting.
Will I benefit from the IR? Of course I will, but I cant say that Singaporeans living overseas will get to enjoy them.
a) Instead of having to spend a few thousand dollars and take 1 week of leave from work to visit Universal Studio in USA. I can just pop by sentosa on the sunday morning and pay about 100 dollars to experience the same thrill.
b) With the arrival of LV Sands, there will be more great shows such as concert and musical to compliment our existing Esplanade program. Instead of paying skyhigh prices to watch these show in NY and London, I can do it in Singapore.
c) With the arrival of more restaurants and hotels, I will have more choices to make when entertaining guests and relative from overseas and to make their stay in Singapore a memorable one.
d) And with the arrival of IRs they will create an al least 30,000 news jobs
What else are you asking for? money from down from the sky? -
I dont think I was asking you about that, did I? Since you have offer to give me a lead into that, could you please explain to me what is the definition of (Free Market Business). What I know is a free market economy, not business.Originally posted by Atobe:If you cannot even understand the concepts of ''Planned Economy'' and ''Free Market {business ?}'' - it will be too taxxxxing to help you to understand the ''concept of INCOME''.
If you want a definition - it will be far easier to get one from google; surely you are capable of typing a simple entry into Google Search ?
""Judging by the track record of this Singapore Government, all you have is a fat hope, and the bulk of the additional income will go into the accounts of GIC and Temasek, as well as to the Private Accounts of the Cabinet Ministers and Civil Servants with more higher pay increases""
Again, I would like to ask you, what is your definition income here. If it is tax revenue you are talking isnt that a no brainer that it will have to go to GIC and Temasek and use it to pay civil servants etc. where will do you think these money goes to? -
a) Cashflow projections are all forecast only, they are not 100%, like their forecast of Shin Corp and Global Crossing, which resulted in losses. You can do your NPV, APV, MIRR, IRR, DPB and your other GARCH. They are not 100%, like your 70/30 model, which provides a static allocation to businesses.Originally posted by Gazelle:a) For any major investment, you will need to make sales forecast, P/L and Cash flow projection at least 3 to 4 years ahead, before the director of the companies can sign the dotted line to approval such huge investment. I am not sure which school of thought have teach you that you can never make forecast in business
b) This is not about wayang, this is to encourage the bidders to do their homework and come out with the best possible proposal for singapore IRs along the line of 70/30 rules. If they dont have such criteria in mind, do you think the IR bidders will submit such a big and comprehensive proposals?
c) I am not sure what makes you think that it is 70% entertainment and 30% gaming? Like I mentioned before 70% can consist of MICE activities, F&B, Hotels, Spa, Concert Hall, Theme Park etc. Plus why is entertainment = eating?
And btw, what is a free market business?
b) Why don't you step into Takashimaya or any departmental store and ask them if the sales of their handbags or perfume is static; i.e. 10% of total sales and ask them if it has always been 10% every year without variations.
c) Sighs.
Free Market business.
In case you are so thick to ask again, it means a business operating in a free market economy.
Free Market Business
Free Market Business
I suppose if you know what "Free Market" is, when I add economy behind "Free Market" to Free Market Economy, you would be befuddled by such complications?
You didn't reply my previous post, so can I safely say that you agree with me that gambling reduces the money supply and causes a decrease of local economic acitivity. -
a) As I have mentioned earlier that the 70/30 model is a target it is not a 100% accurate guidelines for the IR operators need to follow. So please dont put words into my mouth. Plus i was just countering someone's claim that you cant make any forecast in business.Originally posted by maurizio13:a) Cashflow projections are all forecast only, they are not 100%, like their forecast of Shin Corp and Global Crossing, which resulted in losses. You can do your NPV, APV, MIRR, IRR, DPB and your other GARCH. They are not 100%, like your 70/30 model, which provides a static allocation to businesses.
b) Why don't you step into Takashimaya or any departmental store and ask them if the sales of their handbags or perfume is static; i.e. 10% of total sales and ask them if it has always been 10% every year.
c) Sighs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Market business.
In case you are so thick to ask again, it means a business operating in a free market economy.
b) If you were to ask the senior manager of takashimaya, I am sure he will be able to give you a ball park figure on how many % of business are from each department. Just like a company will say what is our exposure to certain currency or certain markets. If you cant, you better stay away from that S$5b investment.
c) I am aware of a free market economy, but I am not so sure what is a free market business. What sort of business is a free market business? -
a) You just said earlier on that 70% of business will be derive from this and 30% of business will be derive from that.Originally posted by Gazelle:a) As I have mentioned earlier that the 70/30 model is a target it is not a 100% accurate guidelines for the IR operators need to follow. So please dont put words into my mouth. Plus i was just countering someone's claim that you cant make any forecast in business.
b) If you were to ask the senior manager of takashimaya, I am sure he will be able to give you a ball park figure on how many % of business are from each department. Just like a company will say what is our exposure to certain currency or certain markets. If you cant, you better stay away from that S$5b investment.
c) I am aware of a free market economy, but I am not so sure what is a free market business. What sort of business is a free market business?
b) Ball park figure is not fixed!!! It's an estimate!!! Sales will vary!!! Duh!!! Wah!!! Want to talk to me about Finance??? Too cheem for me. Your exposure to foreign currency is not fixed, it varies everyday. Today you deposit USD100,000 (USD1 = SGD 1.52), EUR100,000 (EUR 1 = SGD 2.00), end of today, both currencies depreciates against the SGD, will the value of your SGD when translated be the same as it was initially. Business can never be static, it's dynamic; only public administration can be static.
c) Go read up then, I have provided the links. Don't expect me to be your teacher. Ooops.....I think you are more attune to the spoonfeeding that the govt gives you, you do not have the ability to research and understand other issues outside your scope. -
a) That is the business model of Venetian in LV and MM Lee has quoted this clearly to the press after his visit to LV.Originally posted by maurizio13:a) You just said earlier on that 70% of business will be derive from this and 30% of business will be derive from that.
b) Ball park figure is not fixed!!! It's an estimate!!! Sales will vary!!! Duh!!! Wah!!! Want to talk to me about Finance??? Too cheem for me. Your exposure to foreign currency is not fixed, it varies everyday. Today you deposit USD100,000 (USD1 = SGD 1.52), EUR100,000 (EUR 1 = SGD 2.00), end of today, both currencies depreciates against the SGD, will the value of your SGD when translated be the same as it was initially. Business can never be static, it's dynamic; only public administration can be static.
c) Go read up then, I have provided the links. Don't expect me to be your teacher. Ooops.....I think you are more attune to the spoonfeeding that the govt gives you, you do not have the ability to research and understand other issues outside your scope.
You want to know more about the Venetian business model?
http://www.usbusiness-review.com/content_archives/Jul05/index.html
b) Ball park figure is a good enough to determine your business risk and you income stream. Nah. I am not talkin about forex trading, I am more keen on talking aobut your trade in a particular currency. Business is dynamic and full of risk, but you need guildlines to manage risk and maximise profit.
c) A free market and a free market economy i know. but I dont know of a business that is call free market business. -
Classic case of an empty vessel shooting itself in the foot.Originally posted by Gazelle:I have already post a link directly to echelon resort website, not wikipedia as you have mentioned. please spend some time to click on MEDIA and the press release dated Jan 4 2006 and read what does this US$4b consist of.
Clue : Delano and Mondrain Hotel (50/50 JV)
http://www.echelonresort.com/main.html
Before I address your arguments, you certainly deserve a pat on your back for blatantly shooting yourself in the foot. In a feeble attempt to derail the merits of Echelon Place to sustain your argument that there aren't actually more expensive casino resorts than those to be constructed in your beloved regime, you've certainly done very well to reveal the emergence of the MGM Mirage's USD6 billion project. While I can understand it'd be hard for you to come to terms with the fact that there're actually grander and more expensive casino resort projects outside your beloved fascist regime, most sane folks with no problems performing basic arithmetic wouldn't have trouble comprehending the fact that the MGM Mirage's Project CityCenter would more than dwarf either IR built on fascist premises.
Illiterate, just thought I'd cite the link which forms the basis of your fallacious argument, so that you could refer back to it more conveniently for your senseless counter-argument later on.
Obviously, in your eagerness to prove me wrong, you've overlooked the simplest of facts in the simplest terms which could not possibly be incomprehensible to anyone with basic education. I guess, it ain't entirely out of place to suggest you're nothing more than an illiterate if that doesn't prove too flattering to begin with.
Echelon Resort's development plans clearly allude to the following "Echelon Place, on the west side of the Strip just north of Wynn Las Vegas, will feature the USD2.9 billion wholly owned Echelon Resort". For some reasons(either through your illiteracy or sheer inability to understand the full picture as a result of selective amnesia), I see you've conveniently ignored the fact that Boyd Gaming Corp, who will shoulder the USD2.9 billion exclusively, will actually be entering into 50-50 joint ventures with Shangri-La and Morgans Hotel Groups. Once again, quoting the above source :
Should your limited intellect not be sufficiently empowered to comprehend the fact a 50-50 joint venture does not necessarily (as in this particular case, it doesn't) mean a 50-50 cost-sharing in developing the project, you may wish to note that despite Morgans and Boyd engaging in a 50-50 joint venture, Morgans will only be chipping in with USD97.5 million for the additional USD700 million. With this in mind, that'd effectively take Boyd's venture to USD3.5025 billion before factoring in the cost from its other joint ventures with Shangri-La and other smaller players.
Boyd Gaming has entered into a 50-50 joint venture agreement with the Morgans Hotel Group, a developer of lifestyle-boutique hotels, for the construction of two hotels within Echelon Place.
The Delano and Mondrian, to be built at a cost of approximately $700 million, will be managed by Morgans. Boyd Gaming will contribute the land; Morgans will contribute $97.5 million in cash to the venture.
Now, further taking today's exchange rate where USD1 = SGD1.519, USD3.5025 billion (which does not include Boyd's stake in its joint venture with Shangri-La) would translate to SGD5.32 billion. Clearly, it's not rocket science that SGD5.32 billion actually dwarfs the SGD5.05 billion LV Sands plan to invest on its Marina Bay IR, does it?
Keep your comical antics coming in to prove me wrong here - for starters, you could perhaps conjure up an argument to suggest USD1 is perhaps equal to SGD0.5 and therefore, there's actually a miscalculation in my figures?
-
Well, if your logic that USD4 billion < SGD5.05 billion is anything to by at the present exchange rates, I suppose the day when 1 ruppiah = USD1 can't be too far off. That sort of comprehension can't be too bad for a gazelle's intellect...Originally posted by Gazelle:1) "The rupiah had traded at about 2000-3000 rupiah per 1 USD, but reached a low of 16,800 rupiah per dollar in June 1998" (Did USD ever drop to that kind of level?)
2) Are you sure the S$ is peg to rupiah? Do you understand the meaning of peg in the first place?
Taking your stupidity at face value, let's compare two shops in the same shopping complex whereby A has an area twice the size of B.Originally posted by Gazelle:a) Lets compare 2 bed room apartment vs. a 4 bedroom pent house. Am I right to say that the 4bedroom apartment can accomodate more people than the smaller one?
So are you suggesting just because A has a land area twice that of B, it'd definitely have twice as many patrons and customers than B and consequently, rake in twice as much revenue? So I suppose the business activity and the products/services offered by A and B are irrelevant, eh?
If redefining stupidity were an Olympic sport, I'd have no qualms about your credentials as a gold medal-elect... -
With the above statement of yours, the only thing I'm sure of is your stupidity being second to none.Originally posted by Gazelle:a) Sheldon Adelson has personally created the one of the world largest trade show, call COMDEX before he sold it to softbank and he got himself in to gaming business. So his track record in the MICE industry is 2nd to none.
Adelson sold COMDEX for USD860 million in 1995 and as of 2003, his personal net worth stood at a mere USD1.4 billion. Following the public trading of LV Sands in 2004, his personal fortune snowballed 750%. Today, Adelson is worth USD23.4 billion based on his 65% stake in LV Sands.
Now, when you further consider the revenues raked in by LV Sands Corp from its gaming entities, compared with its non-gaming ones, is his record in the MICE industry second to none or is his record in the gaming industry second to none? Some talk about a 30-70 plan... -
Overlook your post.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Please dont tell me something that I already know and if you could, please read the previous post before posting.
2) You are making certain assumptions which i find it hard to believe.
a) All tourist that comes to singapore will spend their entire trip in the casino gambling.
b) All employee working at the IR will be gamblers.
c) You are the only few smarts one in Singapore that knows banker will always win.
1) "The no. of Singapore residents is 3.6m, not 4.483m. Please get your facts right." This is your original post, you claim that the residents in Singapore is 3.6 million.
2) It's not an assumption, it's common sense, apparently it's not so common. You want to play a game of dice with me? Your bring $1,000, I will bring $100,000, each bet $100. If a casino loses money, it won't be in operation very long.
a) "All tourist that comes to singapore will spend their entire trip in the casino gambling." Huh? I made this assumption?
b) "All employee working at the IR will be gamblers." Huh? I made this assumption?
c) "You are the only few smarts one in Singapore that knows banker will always win." It's not me who is smart, it's you who ...........
Hehehe