Can government expect citizens to be loyal ?
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JJ wrote:
Whether a policy is good or bad is not the simplistic generation as often made out to be.
On this matter, I believe FT is necessary.
Some forummers oppose FT. But that argument simply doesn't accord due credit to FT for helping Singapore develop into what it is today. We have always had FT. Maybe there are more of them these days and hence they may be more visible. But they are vital for any open capitalist society like Singapore.
Let's face it. One way or other, there are many jobs that are far better done by FT. I am sure there are some jobs occupied by FT that could be done by locals. That is an unfortunate by-product of govt policies. But by and large, Singapore as a whole benefits from the presence of all these FT.
Often while a policy may seem good but when carried to excess without control it will become bad. The key criterion to any policy often is in the implementation.
For example it is a good policy to avoid welfarism as that will make people over-dependent on the state resulting in laziness and deterioration of the work ethics and causing loss of economic competitiveness.
However by going to the opposite of taxing and recovering all possible costs of government services, it will drive up costs of living and bankrupt the citizens' saving and retirements and eventually the state may still have to look after the hapless retirees and aged population unable to lead a normal life.
Today we are suffering from the reverse of welfarism with the citizens being heavily taxed with direct and indirect taxes of all kinds by the state.
Our domestic sector of the economy is unable to grow because of extremely high costs of essential government services ranging from housing to transportation and utility.
Meritocracy is good but we are now practising meritocracy narrowly to the extreme which only benefit a few elites and this has becomes bad.
Foreign talents may be good but again we have a government which does not understand the full implication of over-liberalizing employment of foreigners like tripartism when carried to the extreme will lead to large-scale abuse and destablise society causing discontented and disllusioned citizens and eventually unrest. -
You sure a not? It's one thing to earn your keep, and another to not get back what you have put in as hard work.Originally posted by Eiizumi:Cruelty is for everyone. One must not expect to other giving them food. They must learn to fight for it.
With the rising costs of living, workers being constantly told to accept lower wages, having the rules constantly changed that often renders years of experience and work for naught, is the common man really getting the fair share of the food he fought for?
There are many ways to manage globalization, I am not convinced the way we are currently doing it is actually the best for the common Singaporean... I have a distinct feeling we are tanking the damage for someone else.Yes indeed. Give me a party that do better than PAP and I'll gladly vote for it. Political restrictions made by PAP government?
Define better. In the last elections the opposition parties made an effort to field credible candidates.
The only restrictions they made GRCs and SMCs, which I think is a half f**k system. Which they say GRCs can have a common source of resources to building up the constituencies, might as well make every GRC.
And what makes anyone think that they will do any worse if they run the country? Last I checked, where has all the talk about the incompetence of the opposition's suggestions really come from? Their natual opponents, the Ruling Party of course.
To truly see if they are capable, one needs to take their points in and weight the pros and cons of it- and a lot of them make perfect sense.
And political restrictions? I think we just need to look at how other democratic countries conduct their elections to see the vast difference in our own system. Right here from the start any person wanting to present an alternative government, no matter how valid his ideas were would face staggering odds.
And look at our newspaper, rated 154th in the world. Is is a source of good information? I'm not too convinced.
Our economic "prosperity" has come at a great price- basically we have made a faustian deal to trade our freedom for prosperity. We have choosen to be politically ignorant, and to blindly trust in wherever the bandwagon is going for better or worse, on the faulty assumption that the way things are now are currently the best that they can be.
The question is this: can another political party provide the same economic prosperity at less cost to the Singaporean soul?
Also all these trends are disturbing, as Sun Tzu pointed if the general is corrupt (lacks morals), eventually this attitude will filter down to his soldiers and he will be unable to lead them because the ideological center uniting the men would have been lost and the men would not fight with or they are, or might even defect.
I am not saying our current government is corrupt, but what I am pointing out is that in their bid to prove their point they have done many things that a true democracy would cringe at: declaring ideas like "freedom" and "democracy" non bread and butter issues, constantly showing to the people that the sole idealogy is survival of the self... all this in all filters down to the Singaporean, and not surprisingly the common man becomes pragmatic: nationhood is no longer a value and some simply leave.
This is not that Singaporeans are not proud of their nation, but one needs to realize our allegiance is to the flag and state of Singapore, and not whoever's in power who is suppose to serve it. Hence not all dissent is invalid or uncalled for.
Just look at many of the arguments in here: are they all the work of people who oppose for the sake of opposing or do they see something wrong with Singaporean soceity that needs to be fixed?
Have our traditional "official" channels for getting "feedback" to the ruling party been effective? I'm not too sure about that. -
"The day that Singaporeans shut up, is the day this nation crumbles"
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I believe ministers must be well remunerated and I don't know what you mean by "public".Originally posted by matleep:Maybe it would be more convincing if we had the statistic of the wages that the general public received during that time. Were the minister receiving a pay that is a lot higher than the public at that time, despite being "low paid"?
But in 1959, their average pay is around $2,500 per month (based on Lee Kuan Yew's memoirs), which I think is worth about today $25,000 per month if taking cost of living increase by about 10 times (this one I not sure). Today, a minister gets average $130,000 per month and will increase to $180,000 by next year. -
Yes, and why would the ruling party take up opposition's ideas if the latter is incompetent? Medishield, smaller classroom size, creative thinking education, new poor, all started from the opposition, esp WP, although PAP made amendments.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Last I checked, where has all the talk about the incompetence of the opposition's suggestions really come from? Their natual opponents, the Ruling Party of course. -
Very very true, the day Singaporeans shut up is the day Hitler or Stalin rules!
If more Singaporeans dare speak up and unafraid of any dire consquences - it will make us a respected people by the world communities.
We want the world to think Singaporeans are successful and outspoken people- and not mere chicken-hearted self-centered humans.
In USA, s entreuprenuers behind success stories get the headlines and attention. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jerry Yang, etc etc..
In here, who claims credit and get all the praises for a good economy? I think you should know the answer!
.............we are still far away from a just situation. -
Originally posted by justiceforall:
unfortunately, there are still many who are like what you described above. They talk a lot about their grievances but coming to standing firm they back out. A lot of "kiasi kiasu" Singaporeans!!
Very very true, [b]the day Singaporeans shut up is the day Hitler or Stalin rules!
If more Singaporeans dare speak up and unafraid of any dire consquences - it will make us a respected people by the world communities.
We want the world to think Singaporeans are successful and outspoken people- and not mere chicken-hearted self-centered humans.
In USA, s entreuprenuers behind success stories get the headlines and attention. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jerry Yang, etc etc..
In here, who claims credit and get all the praises for a good economy? I think you should know the answer!
.............we are still far away from a just situation.[/b] -
Originally posted by justiceforall:
You just can't compare the US with Singapore.
Very very true, [b]the day Singaporeans shut up is the day Hitler or Stalin rules!
If more Singaporeans dare speak up and unafraid of any dire consquences - it will make us a respected people by the world communities.
We want the world to think Singaporeans are successful and outspoken people- and not mere chicken-hearted self-centered humans.
In USA, s entreuprenuers behind success stories get the headlines and attention. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jerry Yang, etc etc..
In here, who claims credit and get all the praises for a good economy? I think you should know the answer!
.............we are still far away from a just situation.[/b]
The former had leaders of impeccable integrity who were determined to ensure the US would, at the very least, serve as the beacon of a democratic ideal for the rest of the world even if they didn't see it becoming the economic superpower it now is.
The latter, however, comprises of opportunistic crooks who'd seize every chance imaginable to consolidate their power without regard for upholding the constitution they'd pledged to defend. -
In the eyes of this regime, you're just a slave and one of many cogs turning the wheel - what rights do you reasonably expect?Originally posted by rane:and singaporeans are not allowed to protest. Sad!!! Where is democracy? We work hard for the $$$$ to feed them who get tons of $$$$ to satisfy them!
To serve the nation is top on their list or to earn tons of $$$ is on their list? What agenda do they have?
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I see. Kim Jung Il's Workers' Party isn't North Korea too and North Korea isn't Kim Jung Il either.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:PAP is not Singapore and vice versa.
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The person who made that statement "100million" to buy over principles and heart is just slapping the people and making the assumption that if money can buy his conscience and soul, that all people are like himself, shameless and low. That's where these people missed the point entirely.Originally posted by richong 3216:Money worshipping is not subscriped by the great voters of hougang during the last general election. Apparently the voters were promised a very big amount of $100 million of upgrading the estate if the imcumbent MP Low Thia Kiang lost.
And what happened? The voters of hougang said "keep your damn money" (actually it's the people's money) & the result was a higher % of votes for Low TK. -
Originally posted by justiceforall:
Remember this number: 154
Very very true, [b]the day Singaporeans shut up is the day Hitler or Stalin rules!
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other country most elderly gets to retired.
man singapore elderly gets to work at macdonald's so they got chance to exercise
lmao count me on singapore~~
knn i stop watching national day parade since i was 4 -
well personally i'm against the PAP... although we have many things and great things to thank them about , after all singapore is a socialist country , despite them saying it's a democratic country, after all ... no country can be a full democratic country. just like the U.S , they claim that they are a democratic country, it is clearly not one. democracy is a form of leadership , that can be aspired towards , but cannot be fully achieved. i'm just merely stating the point that all government , at some point of stage make a "white lie " just like the britain. in the war on dunkirk . the british weren't exactly winning, but because of the fact that the government used propaganda to boost the moral of the country even tho the odds were against them they won.
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How is Singapore socialist? It's basically fascist in every aspect.Originally posted by fishyday:well personally i'm against the PAP... although we have many things and great things to thank them about , after all singapore is a socialist country , despite them saying it's a democratic country, after all ... no country can be a full democratic country. just like the U.S , they claim that they are a democratic country, it is clearly not one. democracy is a form of leadership , that can be aspired towards , but cannot be fully achieved. i'm just merely stating the point that all government , at some point of stage make a "white lie " just like the britain. in the war on dunkirk . the british weren't exactly winning, but because of the fact that the government used propaganda to boost the moral of the country even tho the odds were against them they won.
Democracy never promised anything material bar a free and fair form of politics whereby, if adopted in principle and practice, it should comprise of political leadership that is elected and representative of the electorate's will. So how is the US not a democratic country? -
Depend..
