Lack of personal insurance coverage or deliberate oversight?
-
Running through a few blogs over the weekend and this one jogged my memory:
Disabled NS Man
In addition to the recent deaths in Taiwan over a freak accident involving a dinosaur F5, i'm beginning to wonder whether the question of insurance coverage for NSmen should be left to the individual rather than the government body.
Of course, we cannot always rely on the govt (and rightly so) on 100% payouts or accident-related compensations. After all, we must be responsible for our own well-being at times. But should more be done to educate our NS men and reservists on the issue of self-coverage and proper insurance to ensure that their burden (in the 'touch wood' senario of a disabling accident during NS) be minimised?
Khaw Boon Wan recently declared , rather honestly as well, that people should not just rely on CPF and medisave coverage. With the rising costs of medical fees, especially for the elderly, it is only logical to review alternative means to cover the individual in the event of critical illnesses or personal liabilities.
MINDEF can and should make it an immediate priority (if they still haven't done so) to better educate their NSF and reservists in the same manner. Despite all the hype of 'holiday camp status' NS has now become, the risk of pyrotechnic injury or death is still a REAL possibility. -
[quote]Originally posted by BillyBong:
Running through a few blogs over the weekend and this one jogged my memory:
Disabled NS Man
Khaw Boon Wan recently declared , rather honestly as well, that people should [b]not just rely on CPF and medisave coverage. With the rising costs of medical fees, especially for the elderly, it is only logical to review alternative means to cover the individual in the event of critical illnesses or personal liabilities.
quote]
You know, I cannot imagine what an average Joe or Jane would have left every month end to survive the next month, if one needs to put aside additional amounts for 'other' insurances on top of having contributed to Medisave and CPF from their marginal salaries???
What has this country become under leadership of PAP???
-
It's not that bad lah......Aviva offers all SAF personnel the option of accident insurance. Very very affordable: $16/mth per $100,000 sum assured. Best in the market.Originally posted by ShutterBug:[quote]Originally posted by BillyBong:
You know, I cannot imagine what an average Joe or Jane would have left every month end to survive the next month, if one needs to put aside additional amounts for 'other' insurances on top of having contributed to Medisave and CPF from their marginal salaries???
What has this country become under leadership of PAP???
Maybe the SAF should do more to educate all NSFs, regulars and NSmen the importance of insurance. After all, so many Singaporeans stil hold a negative view of insurance. -
You know, it's like people are having children only to risk losing them during NS...
No words to say... -
Is the above the TPD for Aviva accident insurance? Then this TPD is considered good. So many TPDs require you to lose a few major body parts before payout may be considered.Originally posted by tokyofire:This TPD is not the usally TPD??
*Total Permanent Disability arising from illness or accident which permanently prevents you from engaging in any gainful employment or occupation -
ministers should not rely on their super high salaries to be uncorrupted.
-
The recent wage increase that the PM had awarded to his Cabinet Ministers and to himself would have been more then sufficient to start the seed funding for a long term insurance plan for each and every active National Servicemen of all services in the SAF, the Police Force, and the Civil Defense Force.
PM LHL declaraction of donating his percentage increase to charity - for the next five years - would have been more then sufficient to help all National Service with their insurance protection.
The donation could have been placed in a Trust Fund to be managed effectively by Fund Managers to grow the fund further that it will not be depleted. -
Honorary Atobe,Originally posted by Atobe:The recent wage increase that the PM had awarded to his Cabinet Ministers and to himself would have been more then sufficient to start the seed funding for a long term insurance plan for each and every active National Servicemen of all services in the SAF, the Police Force, and the Civil Defense Force.
PM LHL declaraction of donating his percentage increase to charity - for the next five years - would have been more then sufficient to help all National Service with their insurance protection.
The donation could have been placed in a Trust Fund to be managed effectively by Fund Managers to grow the fund further that it will not be depleted.
With all due respect, but like hell you think he's going to channel the money
back to the people...
They're Masterminds in all sorts of manipulations...! -
While i disagree with the cabinet pay hike, we should all be mindful of 'relying' too much on the govt to spoon-feed us the way a nanny spoon-feeds her baby. Lonely Planet already labels us a 'nanny-state' and it's best we disassociate ourselves from the umbilical.Originally posted by Atobe:The recent wage increase that the PM had awarded to his Cabinet Ministers and to himself would have been more then sufficient to start the seed funding for a long term insurance plan for each and every active National Servicemen of all services in the SAF, the Police Force, and the Civil Defense Force.
PM LHL declaraction of donating his percentage increase to charity - for the next five years - would have been more then sufficient to help all National Service with their insurance protection.
The donation could have been placed in a Trust Fund to be managed effectively by Fund Managers to grow the fund further that it will not be depleted.
It is interesting to note that MOM directives require all companies (GLC or private) that hire workers in engineering related industries to issue appropriate industrial insurance packages that cover a wide range accidents or industrial injury. The same does not appear to apply to MINDEF where servicemen are 'advised' to sign up on a 'recommended' insurance package with money they must either fork out in full or in a subsidised amount. Those in the working line are covered by default.
If every serviceman was made fully aware of the importance of insurance coverage in high risk environment as well as the market price of appropriate packages in the insurance industry, it would be safe to say that open market packages by aviva and asialife offer some of the best budget term and life policies presently. Those offered by MINDEF 'sponsored' insurances hardly compare in terms of payouts and specific coverage, but given the limited access and knowledge our servicemen are open to, only a minority will be fully aware of the situation.
Education is still the best option and to some extent, we need to take individual steps to safeguard our own well-being. Total reliance on the govt in this aspect should not be an option. End of the day, if an accident occurs, blaming the govt will simply be too little too late. -
Originally posted by BillyBong:
Really comprehensive insurance is expensive, and insurance companies typically charge high premiums for high risk jobs such as military jobs. I don't think the average man in the SAF quite simply has no means to afford such expensive insurance. Do not forget that that a good bulk of NSFs in the army who do not possess poly education whatsoever. In fact, I am curious as to how many BMT courses are conducted for people below poly. It will provide an interesting portrait of the population make up of Singapore.
While i disagree with the cabinet pay hike, we should all be mindful of 'relying' too much on the govt to spoon-feed us the way a nanny spoon-feeds her baby. Lonely Planet already labels us a 'nanny-state' and it's best we disassociate ourselves from the umbilical.
It is interesting to note that MOM directives require all companies (GLC or private) that hire workers in engineering related industries to issue appropriate industrial insurance packages that cover a wide range accidents or industrial injury. The same does not appear to apply to MINDEF where servicemen are 'advised' to sign up on a 'recommended' insurance package with money they must either fork out in full or in a subsidised amount. Those in the working line are covered by [b]default.
If every serviceman was made fully aware of the importance of insurance coverage in high risk environment as well as the market price of appropriate packages in the insurance industry, it would be safe to say that open market packages by aviva and asialife offer some of the best budget term and life policies presently. Those offered by MINDEF 'sponsored' insurances hardly compare in terms of payouts and specific coverage, but given the limited access and knowledge our servicemen are open to, only a minority will be fully aware of the situation.
Education is still the best option and to some extent, we need to take individual steps to safeguard our own well-being. Total reliance on the govt in this aspect should not be an option. End of the day, if an accident occurs, blaming the govt will simply be too little too late.[/b] -
Their "policies" and "terms" are built to protect ONLY their interests.
Even if you can somehow match their conditions, they'd worm a way around it to avoid pay outs...
They're Legal Technical Wizards I tell you... -
A blanket coverage with standard payouts should be sufficient. Unless they've changed they should still be using NTUC income, which on hindsight, does not provide adequate coverage compared to the those available on the market. This tidy arrangement between NTUC and MINDEF may serve to undermine the actual confidence in the insurance industry, as this could be viewed as 'one govt body free-riding on another'.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Really comprehensive insurance is expensive, and insurance companies typically charge high premiums for high risk jobs such as military jobs. I don't think the average man in the SAF quite simply has no means to afford such expensive insurance. Do not forget that that a good bulk of NSFs in the army who do not possess poly education whatsoever. In fact, I am curious as to how many BMT courses are conducted for people below poly. It will provide an interesting portrait of the population make up of Singapore.
Still, i agree that the education level of NSF, possibly a majority of them, are ill-equip to comprehend the complexity of insurance policies to such an extent that would place them in a position capable of making the right decision for themselves.
Which is why the govt should place more emphasis on education. Else provide a default minimum policy for all NSmen without the need for additional costs borne by them. -
I think If Mindef and NS really wanted to do "all they can" to protect the Singapore man's interest, they would not stinge on insurance.. they'd PAY for it.Originally posted by BillyBong:A blanket coverage with standard payouts should be sufficient. Unless they've changed they should still be using NTUC income, which on hindsight, does not provide adequate coverage compared to the those available on the market. This tidy arrangement between NTUC and MINDEF may serve to undermine the actual confidence in the insurance industry, as this could be viewed as 'one govt body free-riding on another'.
Still, i agree that the education level of NSF, possibly a majority of them, are ill-equip to comprehend the complexity of insurance policies to such an extent that would place them in a position capable of making the right decision for themselves.
Which is why the govt should place more emphasis on education. Else provide a default minimum policy for all NSmen without the need for additional costs borne by them.
Since $16 / mth is so affordable to those $100,000-a-month-pay ministers, why are they making the average $400 / mth NS Salaryman foot the bill? -
sounds like it. so even if you lose 2 legs and one hand, as long as you can do erm giving out of flyers on the road, you won't get payouts?Originally posted by tokyofire:*Total Permanent Disability arising from illness or accident which permanently prevents you from engaging in any gainful employment or occupation
I dont really understand. Even if it's permanently but u can find a job, does it mean u cannot claim? -
Originally posted by BillyBong:
While it is praiseworthy to be more independent from the Government, the question one should ask is - ''why should we, when the government sucks up a great portion of our monies through a web of essential service providers that are basically owned by this government ?''.
While i disagree with the cabinet pay hike, we should all be mindful of 'relying' too much on the govt to spoon-feed us the way a nanny spoon-feeds her baby. Lonely Planet already labels us a 'nanny-state' and it's best we disassociate ourselves from the umbilical.
It is interesting to note that MOM directives require all companies (GLC or private) that hire workers in engineering related industries to issue appropriate industrial insurance packages that cover a wide range accidents or industrial injury. The same does not appear to apply to MINDEF where servicemen are 'advised' to sign up on a 'recommended' insurance package with money they must either fork out in full or in a subsidised amount. Those in the working line are covered by [b]default.
If every serviceman was made fully aware of the importance of insurance coverage in high risk environment as well as the market price of appropriate packages in the insurance industry, it would be safe to say that open market packages by aviva and asialife offer some of the best budget term and life policies presently. Those offered by MINDEF 'sponsored' insurances hardly compare in terms of payouts and specific coverage, but given the limited access and knowledge our servicemen are open to, only a minority will be fully aware of the situation.
Education is still the best option and to some extent, we need to take individual steps to safeguard our own well-being. Total reliance on the govt in this aspect should not be an option. End of the day, if an accident occurs, blaming the govt will simply be too little too late.[/b]
Limiting our discussion to this question of insurance coverage for our National Servicemen, one will have to ask how much ''allowance'' is the NSF serviceman paid that will make any insurance policy affordable; especially for an insurance policy that will provide reasonable comprehensive coverage with payout that can be sufficient to make a severely injured NSF person independent ?
The amount paid to our NSF personnels are considered ''allowance'' and are not even considered wages, and no CPF deductions are made, nor will MINDEF be paying any Employer's CPF Contributions.
The ''allowance'' paid to an NSF will be expended on additional equipment that the SAF, SPF or PDF do not provide, but will be necessary for the NSF personnel during the course of his full time duty.
For the National Service Personnel already making personal sacrifice of his time, surely it will not be too much for the Singapore Government - either the Ministry of Defense or Ministry of Home Affairs - to increase the present insurance coverage value that already exist ?
The present minimal insurance payout should be reviewed towards a larger insurance payout, so as to make the amount paid is sufficient to enable the NSF Person to live an independent life of meaningful quality - even if one is unfortunate to suffer permanent or semi-permanent injuries. -
It should be so.....note the words "gainful employment". So even if a serviceman is permanently disabled on the left arm but he can still be a cleaner, yeh....no TOTAL payout. However, there will be a partial payout, maybe 30-50%.Originally posted by tokyofire:*Total Permanent Disability arising from illness or accident which permanently prevents you from engaging in any gainful employment or occupation
I dont really understand. Even if it's permanently but u can find a job, does it mean u cannot claim? -
'Allowances' in all areas have increased. An officer or key appointment holder now rakes in a monthly allowance of >1K. Knowing how this govt works, the likelihood of any 'complimentary coverage' on personal insurance will be offset by a reduction of wages paid to the NSF.Originally posted by Atobe:While it is praiseworthy to be more independent from the Government, the question one should ask is - ''why should we, when the government sucks up a great portion of our monies through a web of essential service providers that are basically owned by this government ?''.
Limiting our discussion to this question of insurance coverage for our National Servicemen, one will have to ask how much ''allowance'' is the NSF serviceman paid that will make any insurance policy affordable; especially for an insurance policy that will provide reasonable comprehensive coverage with payout that can be sufficient to make a severely injured NSF person independent ?
The amount paid to our NSF personnels are considered ''allowance'' and are not even considered wages, and no CPF deductions are made, nor will MINDEF be paying any Employer's CPF Contributions.
The ''allowance'' paid to an NSF will be expended on additional equipment that the SAF, SPF or PDF do not provide, but will be necessary for the NSF personnel during the course of his full time duty.
For the National Service Personnel already making personal sacrifice of his time, surely it will not be too much for the Singapore Government - either the Ministry of Defense or Ministry of Home Affairs - to increase the present insurance coverage value that already exist ?
The present minimal insurance payout should be reviewed towards a larger insurance payout, so as to make the amount paid is sufficient to enable the NSF Person to live an independent life of meaningful quality - even if one is unfortunate to suffer permanent or semi-permanent injuries.
In essence, the NSF will likely end up paying for his own insurance, carefully crafted to look like the govt is providing 'free insurance'' coverage. Take with the left and give with the right is surely the best way to balance the books with this govt.
It will be wishful thinking on our part if we expect MINDEF to extend a blanket insurance coverage for all NSF, including reservists. -
Because "there is no free lunch" and people must not develop "crutch mentality"Originally posted by spinsugar:I think If Mindef and NS really wanted to do "all they can" to protect the Singapore man's interest, they would not stinge on insurance.. they'd PAY for it.
Since $16 / mth is so affordable to those $100,000-a-month-pay ministers, why are they making the average $400 / mth NS Salaryman foot the bill?
PAP ministers, MPs and assorted lackeys however get free lunches as a right