CSJ Presents during banned forum, about poverty in Singapore
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Could you clarify long-term power goals?Originally posted by LazerLordz:That will take a serious change in our social mindset.
However, I think CSJ can do more as an activist. However, the SDP as a party should think about long-term power goals. -
For his solutions, try reading some of his books, especially the earlier one on 'Dare to Change : An Alternative Vision for Singapore' - in which CSJ claimed in an interview :Originally posted by Rock^Star:No one's using extremity to judge and he hasn't done much regarding your second sentence.
If a politician criticises, he must be able to offer viable solutions. Simple. He cannot just criticise and then hit the ball into the govt's court. He must at least show Singaporeans that he's not an empty vessel.
For example in 'Dare To Change', we clearly laid out our vision for Singapore.
Many of the points cited in there are now echoed by the PAP in its S21 plan. But the media refused to report and publish the points raised in the SDP's manifesto
If this statement was false, surely there would have been the characteristic vigorous counter from MIW.
How should we interpret the deafening silence from MIW to such a claim from CSJ ?
Another reference book from CSJ will be 'Your Future, My Faith, Our Freedom' - which contained his thoughts on the following:
Chapter 1 : The Political System
Chapter 2 : The Economy
Chapter 3 : The Economy II
Chapter 4 : Dsitrbibution of Wealth
Chapter 5 : Social Security
Chapter 6 : The Media and Censorship
Chapter 7 : Society and the People
He has committed on paper his hopes and aspiration of what Singapore should be, and anyone can read and provide a critical opinion to what has been written by him.
How many will dare put in writing the ideals one has for Singapore, and put in the effort to make those ideals happen ? -
This guy won't have much supporter...
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Definitely not from MIW fans...Originally posted by soulwinner:This guy won't have much supporter... -
Thanks for the info! I have read 'Your Future, My Faith, Our Freedom'. It does present sound arguments and interesting ideologies on our economy.Originally posted by Atobe:[/i][/color]
If this statement was false, surely there would have been the characteristic vigorous counter from MIW.
How should we interpret the deafening silence from MIW to such a claim from CSJ ?
Another reference book from CSJ will be 'Your Future, My Faith, Our Freedom' - which contained his thoughts on the following:
Chapter 1 : The Political System
Chapter 2 : The Economy
Chapter 3 : The Economy II
Chapter 4 : Dsitrbibution of Wealth
Chapter 5 : Social Security
Chapter 6 : The Media and Censorship
Chapter 7 : Society and the People
He has committed on paper his hopes and aspiration of what Singapore should be, and anyone can read and provide a critical opinion to what has been written by him.
How many will dare put in writing the ideals one has for Singapore, and put in the effort to make those ideals happen ?
Nobody knows for sure whether it works a not but he has to continuosly repeat it, otherwise Singaporeans will not be very aware of his vision. The only vision most of our countrymen see is that of PAP's.
If he criticises the govt in terms of not helping the poor, long hospital waiting times and widening income gaps, then he must show that he has the solutions. I believe an ordinary Singaporean's mindset would dismiss him as, "criticise only, no solution, easy." He must understand this mentality of the common people and then surprise all, contrary to their stereotype. After all, this is a man who desires to be voted into parliament to further his cause. -
Like sustainability, community outreach and a party manifesto that can engage the issues facing Singaporeans. The SDP, or any party for that matter would probably need to hire PR consultants to create a brand label, for the public to see and associate it with certain causes in a clear and unshakeable manner. This will apply to areas such as online media, which requires a clear, simply accessed, slick and professional looking webspace as well.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Could you clarify long-term power goals?
Spin is inevitable, and negative media focus is inevitable too. So the next department that is vital is a strong media team that can keep on their toes and issue well-reasoned OpEds to counter the state media's slant and accusations.
Like it or not, a party needs policy wings and policymakers. CSJ is the activist, probably building a vision. He needs people who can craft policies to sell to the people in order to build that vision. -
That's workable. I'm not sure what Chee thinks thoughOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Like sustainability, community outreach and a party manifesto that can engage the issues facing Singaporeans. The SDP, or any party for that matter would probably need to hire PR consultants to create a brand label, for the public to see and associate it with certain causes in a clear and unshakeable manner. This will apply to areas such as online media, which requires a clear, simply accessed, slick and professional looking webspace as well.
Spin is inevitable, and negative media focus is inevitable too. So the next department that is vital is a strong media team that can keep on their toes and issue well-reasoned OpEds to counter the state media's slant and accusations.
Like it or not, a party needs policy wings and policymakers. CSJ is the activist, probably building a vision. He needs people who can craft policies to sell to the people in order to build that vision.
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He's been focusing so much on the activist part that I feel it may have gone on overdrive. He really needs to understand why he has been garnering such low votes in the past 2 elections (media coverage aside). -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Should CSJ help this Government with more ideas, and allow this Government to take credit for any successful outcome, considering that his ideas were adopted unashamedly without any credit given to CSJ ?
Thanks for the info! I have read 'Your Future, My Faith, Our Freedom'. It does present sound arguments and interesting ideologies on our economy.
Nobody knows for sure whether it works a not but he has to continuosly repeat it, otherwise Singaporeans will not be very aware of his vision. The only vision most of our countrymen see is that of PAP's.
If he criticises the govt in terms of not helping the poor, long hospital waiting times and widening income gaps, then he must show that he has the solutions. I believe an ordinary Singaporean's mindset would dismiss him as, "criticise only, no solution, easy." He must understand this mentality of the common people and then surprise all, contrary to their stereotype. After all, this is a man who desires to be voted into parliament to further his cause.
It is matter of one's values, experiences, and expectations that affects one's judgement of someone else's ideas and statements in prints.
You could engage him on his views and probably will have a better insight of the Man himself.
No one holds on to certain views as events make those views no longer valid due to changes in circumstances; however, changes should not go against the grain of one's Stated Principles.
At least, CSJ was prepared to stand his ground compared to LKY's U-Turn of his youthful speeches on 'Democracy and Freedom' thrown at the Colonial Government during the 1950s. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:No one's using extremity to judge and he hasn't done much regarding your second sentence.Originally posted by Rock^Star:I have watched all 3 videos.
I do not disagree with all that he has mentioned. However, I wonder if Singaporeans can visualise him as our future PM.
Can he guarantee there's no poverty if he's PM?
Can he guarantee hospital waiting times be shortened considering our severe lack of doctors and nurses?
Can he effectively reduce Singapore's widening income gap? -
So how do you propose that he garner more votes in the next election?Originally posted by Atobe:Should CSJ help this Government with more ideas, and allow this Government to take credit for any successful outcome, considering that his ideas were adopted unashamedly without any credit given to CSJ ? -
Of course I'm aware that I used the PM example. However, my point is not in those two letters. Perhaps you can pay more attention to my 3 points, so that you can justify how he may rectify those 3 points in parliament as an MP.Originally posted by nismoS132:
For your reference (an exerpt in my previous reply to Atobe):
If he criticises the govt in terms of not helping the poor, long hospital waiting times and widening income gaps, then he must show that he has the solutions. I believe an ordinary Singaporean's mindset would dismiss him as, "criticise only, no solution, easy." He must understand this mentality of the common people and then surprise all, contrary to their stereotype. After all, this is a man who desires to be voted into parliament to further his cause. -
and as i have mentioned, he is there to ensure the PAP's faults and mistakes are not hidden away. he is there to keep check and balance, and if he were to be voted into parliament as an MP, his role would be to question the government on the policies they have formulated, highlight the flaws, critique it and ensure the people's demands are met.
as for your question, it has already been answered by atobe. -
Come on, don't hide behind his answer. I would like your answer.Originally posted by nismoS132:and as i have mentioned, he is there to ensure the PAP's faults and mistakes are not hidden away. he is there to keep check and balance, and if he were to be voted into parliament as an MP, his role would be to question the government on the policies they have formulated, highlight the flaws, critique it and ensure the people's demands are met.
as for your question, it has already been answered by atobe.
(Anyway, I am still awaiting further elaboration from Atobe regarding this qn:
"So how do you propose that he garner more votes in the next election?"
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Since it's not advisable that Chee leaks his plans out for fear of PAP stealing his ideas (which is a valid point), how else do you propose that he change the mentality of Singaporeans who go, "All criticism, no solution" so that he may hope to be voted into parliament the next election? -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Diligent sincerity, honest actions, purposeful confrontation, continuous education of the Citizen, and the continuous push to make the Citizen aware of their political rights.
So how do you propose that he garner more votes in the next election?
The successes of Opposition Members from other countries - after decades of oppression - should be made known to every level of society, and Singaporeans must be conciously aware of their 'Past and Present Experiences, which should be loudly advertised by any means - {peaceful public actions, bloggings, youTube, and podcasting}.
The success of Singapore is not due entirely to LKY's single-handed genius, as it involves Dr Goh Keng Swee, Dr Toh Chin Chye, Jek Yun Tong, Rajaratnam, and the foreign consultants recruited to advise the Cabinet.
Likewise, CSJ will have to recruit his A-Team. -
sadly, i don't have my own answer because 1, i don't have a proper understanding politics nor economics, and 2, i don't know chee well enough to give you an answer. but that is besides the point.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Come on, don't hide behind his answer. I would like your answer.
my point is that at this point in time, with the unfair odds given, with chee in parliament, he will act as a check and balance against the pap. until the pap loses the majority of seats, and we get a fair distribution of power among the different parties, with suitable people placed in suitable cabinet positions, whatever chee proposes will just be stoned walled. -
Thanks for the frank admission.Originally posted by nismoS132:sadly, i don't have my own answer because 1, i don't have a proper understanding politics nor economics, and 2, i don't know chee well enough to give you an answer. but that is besides the point.
my point is that at this point in time, with the unfair odds given, with chee in parliament, he will act as a check and balance against the pap. until the pap loses the majority of seats, and we get a fair distribution of power among the different parties, with suitable people placed in suitable cabinet positions, whatever chee proposes will just be stoned walled.
I would love to see Chee turn his image around and let Singaporeans see more credibility in him as per the early to mid nineties.
Problem is....I'm not sure if his current activist image will help him win more votes and usher him into parliament. -
Originally posted by Atobe:Diligent sincerity, honest actions, purposeful confrontation, continuous education of the Citizen, and the continuous push to make the Citizen aware of their political rights.
That's right.....he has been doing the above conscientiously.
However, I don't really think that his "Stand up for Democracy" idea resonates well with Singaporeans. That explains his low 20 plus percent votes in the last election. I believe the average Singaporean with a family, would be more concerned about bringing food to the table than standing up for democracy.
How else may he garner votes?
The successes of Opposition Members from other countries - after decades of oppression - should be made known to every level of society, and Singaporeans must be conciously aware of their 'Past and Present Experiences, which should be loudly advertised by any means - {peaceful public actions, bloggings, youTube, and podcasting}.
I'm sure many Singaporeans would love to see how opposition from other countries have made it.
The success of Singapore is not due entirely to LKY's single-handed genius, as it involves Dr Goh Keng Swee, Dr Toh Chin Chye, Jek Yun Tong, Rajaratnam, and the foreign consultants recruited to advise the Cabinet.
Ruling party's propaganda had us believed for decades that it's all due to Lee Kuan Yew. Chee must do much much more to spread the awareness.
Likewise, CSJ will have to recruit his A-Team.
He stands up against this govt without fear of fines or jail. Few would dare to be associated with him. In your opinion, how may he recruit an A-Team?
I feel that CSJ's personal style may have been suitable for Singapore's politics in the 50s and 60s. Those were the turbulent times where people needed a "voice" to stand up for them. LKY was the CSJ back then? (He strongly advocated democracy) And he fitted the bill perfectly.
In today's developed countries, I don't think any party has ever won any election based on sheer criticism of the ruling party. Human rights campaigns, I believe...yes but not political elections. He must provide reasons for people to vote for him. After all, his ultimate aim is to be voted into parliament. -
Guys, whoever assumed that CSJ wants to be voted into Parliament? He's working to change the whole system, and not embracing it.
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Of course I expect it from him. If he speaks up as a normal S'porean that's because his life is affected by PAP policies. But he entered politics because he believes he can do some things, if not all, better than PAP. Right?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Are you one of those people who expect that if a man is to speak up, he must have ready made solutions? What a primitive mindset.
What is a politician? Someone who runs for public office. CSJ is in political party and somemore he's the leader of the party. He stood for elections until he became bankrupt. How can he be a activist and not politician? A pure activist is someone like leader of AWARE or ThinkCentre or Roundtable, as long as they do not enter politics. That's an activist.Originally posted by LazerLordz:CSJ is not a politician, never has been. Only the media loves to call him an opposition politician so that they can discredit the other parties through association of reputation.
CSJ is merely an activist, an academic and a man who has the guts to say his mind. Can we say more than that? -
So why does he contest elections?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Guys, whoever assumed that CSJ wants to be voted into Parliament? He's working to change the whole system, and not embracing it. -
He contests as the Sec-Gen of the SDP. But he is also an activist and leader of ARDA and a member of CALD, in which he wears his activist hat.Originally posted by Rock^Star:So why does he contest elections? -
Acknowledged. What I mean is......the aim of elections is to get into parliament. If CSJ did not aim to get into parliament, what is he contesting elections for?Originally posted by LazerLordz:He contests as the Sec-Gen of the SDP. But he is also an activist and leader of ARDA and a member of CALD, in which he wears his activist hat. -
Originally posted by walesa:At least there's more substance emerging from his whines than those from sycophants who serve to be nothing more than a fascist mouthpiece...
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I believe, Chee's main Goal is ( as said in his interview on the movie "singapore Rebel" by martin See)
To bring attention to unjust laws in singapore.
And to Quote JBJ today (20th May) in his press conference - I paraphrase "the main problem is with the system."
The whole system of government 1st has to change. The poverty, wider income gap, etc.. are just symtoms of a corrupt system. -
yeah, especially now that they are getting the pay of $3.1 m this makes people think of the last statement above.Originally posted by Jontst78:I believe, Chee's main Goal is ( as said in his interview on the movie "singapore Rebel" by martin See)
To bring attention to unjust laws in singapore.
And to Quote JBJ today (20th May) in his press conference - I paraphrase "the main problem is with the system."
The whole system of government 1st has to change. The poverty, wider income gap, etc.. are just symtoms of a corrupt system.
If the gahmen is too much into earning big big bucks, just wonder how sincere they serve the nation. 
