Should National Day celebration be community based?
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I would say that our parades are increasingly NOT for our neighbours' consumption.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Military parades are actually politically sensitive in a region like ours.
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How sure are you???Originally posted by qpicanto:In communities across the island, Singaporeans will celebrate from the streets to parks and backyards to commemorate independent day , there will fireworks in every major town centres, to honour our people, heritage, diversity and freedom.
Since it is not a political event , political party members might want to attend the NDP not wearing their party uniform. It helps greatly in separating the party from the State.
Parade should be community based, army take a back stage since Spore not a military regime.
Voluntary participation should be greatly encouraged.
This could be the Singapore many want to see. -
i think it is still not the right time to take out the uniform group off the parade. community parade is a bad idea, think of the traffic.
be creative give it a GST free day....!!! that would generate good sales.
Very soon the next generation of PAP will ask why we wear white again!! -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:i think it is still not the right time to take out the uniform group off the parade. community parade is a bad idea, think of the traffic.
be creative give it a GST free day....!!! that would generate good sales.
Very soon the next generation of PAP will ask why we wear white again!!Not suggest the exclusion of the uniform (military) group but SAF should not take the leading role in the conduct of the parade turining it into a military event.
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I agree with you. However, if it's a centralised event, you need strong organisation to keep all the components together.Originally posted by qpicanto:Not suggest the exclusion of the uniform (military) group but SAF should not take the leading role in the conduct of the parade turining it into a military event. Instantly, the stadium becomes a military camp parade sqaure with all military protocol to be observed.
If it's a distributed, regional event, then you won't need the SAF to take the lead. -
Only the SAF has the expertise and efficiency to conduct such an operation on a large scale. Our generals have been trained on how to manage people in the thousands. Anyway, NDP is not just a military parade, it also showcases Singapore's multi-racial mix.Originally posted by qpicanto:Not suggest the exclusion of the uniform (military) group but SAF should not take the leading role in the conduct of the parade turining it into a military event. Instantly, the stadium becomes a military camp parade sqaure with all military protocol to be observed.
Military protocol is only observed by military personnel, not civilian participants.
Have you particpated in one before? -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:Only the SAF has the expertise and efficiency to conduct such an operation on a large scale. Our generals have been trained on how to manage people in the thousands. Anyway, NDP is not just a military parade, it also showcases Singapore's multi-racial mix.
Military protocol is only observed by military personnel, not civilian participants.
Have you particpated in one before?No doubt . Today's NDP has changed alot since the 1st one in 1965 where it consist 100% military personnels and hardwares.
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There can never be voluntary participation. The PAP will not allow it. They will hijack the whole celebration and make it a propaganda for the party, RC and NTUC as well. In any case, they prefer the present arrangement, as it can be dragged on for a whole month for maximum effect.Originally posted by qpicanto:In communities across the island, Singaporeans will celebrate from the streets to parks and backyards to commemorate independent day , there will fireworks in every major town centres, to honour our people, heritage, diversity and freedom.
Since it is not a political event , political party members might want to attend the NDP not wearing their party uniform. It helps greatly in separating the party from the State.
Parade should be community based, army take a back stage since Spore not a military regime.
Voluntary participation should be greatly encouraged.
This could be the Singapore many want to see.
Military strength is not about hardware alone. Most generals get too confident when they feel they have the best, as in the US invasion of Iraq. Winning the war is easy, but not the peace. The recent durian diplomacy bet Malaysia and Singapore is a good example of waging peace. -
Nevertheless, showing off one's hardware to prove one's manhood is simply a foolhardy provocation.Originally posted by Rock^Star:We have been doing it every 5 years at the Padang for decades.
Our ties with Malaysia and Indonesia have always been at least lukewarm, icy only for limited periods.
You might like to recall the time when we showcased our AMX-13s. Lousy as they were back then, they sent shockwaves through the region.
It seemed fine to do so back then after all the Konfrontasi and what not, but in this day and age, we should not give the nationalists in other countries reason to suspect us of anything stupid, stupid enough as they are. -
The military display at Padang seems more like a show of might for deterrence purpose (and also to entertain Singaporeans) rather than as an act of provocation....Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Nevertheless, showing off one's hardware to prove one's manhood is simply a foolhardy provocation.
You might like to recall the time when we showcased our AMX-13s. Lousy as they were back then, they sent shockwaves through the region.
It seemed fine to do so back then after all the Konfrontasi and what not, but in this day and age, we should not give the nationalists in other countries reason to suspect us of anything stupid, stupid enough as they are. -
There are many ways to put a spin of things, like it or not.Originally posted by Rock^Star:The military display at Padang seems more like a show of might for deterrence purpose (and also to entertain Singaporeans) rather than as an act of provocation.... -
India and Pakistan's national day parade? Yes. Taiwan and China's? Yes but not ours.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:There are many ways to put a spin of things, like it or not.
If we can put a spin just about anything that easily, then there's no such thing as logic. -
Haven't you noticed that this nation runs on spin?Originally posted by Rock^Star:India and Pakistan's national day parade? Yes. Taiwan and China's? Yes but not ours.
If we can put a spin just about anything that easily, then there's no such thing as logic.
Like I said, our military hardware seems increasingly meant for eyes other than our neighbours. -
Of course, we are spin cityOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Haven't you noticed that this nation runs on spin?
Like I said, our military hardware seems increasingly meant for eyes other than our neighbours. But that's another thing. I was just informing Fingolfin that our parade is not meant as a form of provocation to our neighbours. -
You seem to have forgotten that the Indonesians just accused us of a land grab.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Of course, we are spin city But that's another thing. I was just informing Fingolfin that our parade is not meant as a form of provocation to our neighbours.
When we first showed off the AMX-13, the M'sians were wondering if we were planning to invade Johor, especially when the M'sians had no tanks whatsoever back then -
Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:You seem to have forgotten that the Indonesians just accused us of a land grab.
So? That accusation justifies a provocation through our military parades? Ours is a show of might to Singaporeans and outsiders. It does not amount to provocation.
When we first showed off the AMX-13, the M'sians were wondering if we were planning to invade Johor, especially when the M'sians had no tanks whatsoever back then
That's the 70s era? Anyway, that's what the Malaysians think as you claimed, certainly not what Singapore thinks. We were still a young nation flapping our tiny wings and our economy was growing very rapidly. Why would our leaders back then want to jeopardise this by provocating them? 2 million Singaporeans will perish together. It's just a show of strength. -
Rock Star: Do you think your bloody opinion or mine for that matters even matters to the politicians? Get a hold of yourself and quit being defensive. IF the spin doctors want to make us look like a bunch of war mongers they can do it very easily. Already in Indonesia some morons already launched a spin campaign at SingTel to drive SingTel out of Indonesia although it has appeared to have failed thus far. Just looking at Thailand and at how we became a friend of Thailand to Public Enemy No. 2 or something just shows how easy it is for people to twist the truth.
Do you think our neighbours don't watch us wearily? You must be hopelessly naive to expect them to think that people will always share your damn perspective. What matters is not your damn opinion but others because at the end of the day it is the diplomats that have to do cleaning up because some idiot decided showing his manhood is fun. Why do you think the Centurion tanks to this day has remained a "secret" despite the fact that we have been having the tanks for decades? -
Delusion. Our SAF is primarily meant for Indonesia and Malaysia in times of war. Thailand does not come into the equation. Nvm, since you have such a strong opinion on this matter.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Rock Star: Do you think your bloody opinion or mine for that matters even matters to the politicians? Get a hold of yourself and quit being defensive. IF the spin doctors want to make us look like a bunch of war mongers they can do it very easily. Already in Indonesia some morons already launched a spin campaign at SingTel to drive SingTel out of Indonesia although it has appeared to have failed thus far. Just looking at Thailand and at how we became a friend of Thailand to Public Enemy No. 2 or something just shows how easy it is for people to twist the truth.
Do you think our neighbours don't watch us wearily? You must be hopelessly naive to expect them to think that people will always share your damn perspective. What matters is not your damn opinion but others because at the end of the day it is the diplomats that have to do cleaning up because some idiot decided showing his manhood is fun. Why do you think the Centurion tanks to this day has remained a "secret" despite the fact that we have been having the tanks for decades?
And centurion tanks are not a secret. Our neighbours already knew it before it was even mentioned in Tim Huxley's book.
If you are so tired debating, it's fine with me. -
More thoughts on this matter: damn if you do, damn if you don't.
Malaysia and Indonesia have always branded us arrogant but still work with us as we are a strategic economic partner. Singapore did not choose to be arrogant.
For example, an inferior man with small muscles may say that a muscled man wearing a singlet is showing off. But is he really doing so? Is the muscled man going to reduce his muscles just because of the little man's reaction?
Anyway, we have been doing it for 30 years. Even Malaysia and Indonesia have full force military parades. If we stop our military parade, it just shows:
1) we are guilty of provovation
2) we cannot stand on our feet and have to bow to our neighbour's pressure
Even if we do stop our parades, will the other two stop theirs? No.
I just checked with my peers minutes ago. These are people who read up about international affairs and are concerned with local politics. "NDP provocation??" was their reaction and just laughed. Check with the other educated forumites here and they should tell you the same.
Only you are that imaginative to think so. These parades are a norm in this region. Malaysia and Indonesia show us their might and we do the same. It's a big difference from provocation.