If Singapore is to go to war...
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why should we change ourselves? we should change the environment!
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U all live to serve ... your country. If it takes FT and Finvestments to keep the great country moving forward and give you guys a roof over ur heads and food on the table. I guess its a fair price... all u gotta do is... SERVE.Originally posted by soul_rage:Actually, my hypothetical question is, if you are able to evacuate your loved ones and family out of Singapore, and have savings elsewhere which you can go to, will you stay and fight for Singapore?
For me, its simple, I can't envision staying back to fight. Fight for what? For those ministers? For a country that is run more like a corporation? There is no love here, for this is just a piece of an island. There is no identity here.
We are an OPEN country, that local citizens and foreigners all enjoy the SAME benefits, but yet are treated differently (for eg. Local citizens must serve NS to protect this place while foreigners only get to enjoy the benefits)
This is what Gazelle said. He sees no need to protect Singaporeans from globalisation, and that everyone (regardless of race, language, religion, and NOW nationality) should enjoy the same opportunities.
So why should we give up our lives for a place who doesn't care about us?
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sorry but I do not agree with you. In the 1st place, my abilities are good enough to take on any so-called talents, so I can easily find a job overseas. So no, its not the govt that give me a roof, the credit belongs to myself.Originally posted by BadzMaro:U all live to serve ... your country. If it takes FT and Finvestments to keep the great country moving forward and give you guys a roof over ur heads and food on the table. I guess its a fair price... all u gotta do is... SERVE.
As I mentioned, there is no benefits specially for locals. I attained all I have till now with my own abilities and tenacity to compete with the foreigners for opportunities.
So, why should I serve? Why should I give up my life for people who take million dollar salaries, and treat their citizens like dirt? -
l will juz simply run away....migrate either through illegal or legal means to other country..and when sg is okie liao..l then come back
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you better have a lot of money to come back here, for I would have taken over whatever you left behind. that time, talent is not enough. when sg is okie, it may not be okie for you.Originally posted by xShevchenkox:l will juz simply run away....migrate either through illegal or legal means to other country..and when sg is okie liao..l then come back
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people who can leave the country, usually don't need to come back.Originally posted by sgdiehard:you better have a lot of money to come back here, for I would have taken over whatever you left behind. that time, talent is not enough. when sg is okie, it may not be okie for you.
By the time the war is over (assuming we survive), there is nothing much left for you to take, coz in war, most of what's here will have been destroyed. -
Thanks to this commentOriginally posted by soul_rage:people who can leave the country, usually don't need to come back.
By the time the war is over (assuming we survive), there is nothing much left for you to take, coz in war, most of what's here will have been destroyed.
hmm l tink ish when war in sg over le...everything settle le...sg prosper le, regain back peace and the economy is okie liao..then l come back, shldnt hav come back after war is over cuz like u say...everything is destroyed.
but l definitely wont help sg if we are to go war..l will juz go to other country to hide..that is for sure
l dun wan to be hero and as the proverb goes "heroes die 1st" -
sorrie..even if l wan to run, l will tk my valuable property and all the $ with me. and then go to another country to hide..l am not that stupid eitherOriginally posted by sgdiehard:you better have a lot of money to come back here, for I would have taken over whatever you left behind. that time, talent is not enough. when sg is okie, it may not be okie for you. -
Thats what happens in alot of countries n their governments.Originally posted by soul_rage:sorry but I do not agree with you. In the 1st place, my abilities are good enough to take on any so-called talents, so I can easily find a job overseas. So no, its not the govt that give me a roof, the credit belongs to myself.
As I mentioned, there is no benefits specially for locals. I attained all I have till now with my own abilities and tenacity to compete with the foreigners for opportunities.
So, why should I serve? Why should I give up my life for people who take million dollar salaries, and treat their citizens like dirt?
Because there are many others who are not like you. Everywhere ppl are taking in FT's. Even malaysia.. exporting the brains... importing the brawn. -
so what you are implying is that for those Singaporeans that will fight, its only coz they don't have a choiceOriginally posted by BadzMaro:Thats what happens in alot of countries n their governments.
Because there are many others who are not like you. Everywhere ppl are taking in FT's. Even malaysia.. exporting the brains... importing the brawn.
Then that means there is no real patriotic spirit in this country then? -
hmm..... it is actually a waste of time to discuss things like this. Obviously many of you got no sense of reality. You can't take everything you have with you, except your cash, if you can draw out in time. If a war is imminent, and by the time you know it, you won't have time to sell you assets, and who do you think will buy?Originally posted by soul_rage:people who can leave the country, usually don't need to come back.
By the time the war is over (assuming we survive), there is nothing much left for you to take, coz in war, most of what's here will have been destroyed.
and where do you think you can go? and let me tell you this, unless you have some talent, not many countries will take you as in even as refugees.
If you can't migrate during peace time, there is chance for you to go anywhere during a war.
Obviously you know little about SAF, will "most of what's here will have been destroyed"? Don't think that will happen. The question is, what do you have in Singapore right now? If you have nothing then I don't blame you for running away, only problem is who will take you, but that is your problem, not singapore's.
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actually on the contrary, I think you are the one with no sense of reality.Originally posted by sgdiehard:hmm..... it is actually a waste of time to discuss things like this. Obviously many of you got no sense of reality. You can't take everything you have with you, except your cash, if you can draw out in time. If a war is imminent, and by the time you know it, you won't have time to sell you assets, and who do you think will buy?
and where do you think you can go? and let me tell you this, unless you have some talent, not many countries will take you as in even as refugees.
If you can't migrate during peace time, there is chance for you to go anywhere during a war.
Obviously you know little about SAF, will "most of what's here will have been destroyed"? Don't think that will happen. The question is, what do you have in Singapore right now? If you have nothing then I don't blame you for running away, only problem is who will take you, but that is your problem, not singapore's.
The rich and those with cash to invest are already putting their investments outside of singapore. Do you not know the term 'Don't put eggs in the same basket'?
I am curious to know what I don't know about SAF? Are you telling me our SAF is SO POWERFUL that it has in its arsenal everything that will destroy any aggressor? Do you not understand the massive impact to the economy EVEN IF we manage to repel the aggressor?
In fact, I feel that you are the one whom is immature, with an overdose of arrogance that seemed to believe our island can take on anyone, just as how our leaders speak arrogantly on the world stage.
And I probably have much more assets than you have in your 2 lifetimes. Not only here, but elsewhere. -
anyway, one thing I agree with sgdiehard is, what's the point in arguing anymore?
obviously he stands on the ground he will fight and die for the ministers, while I stand on the ground that I will leave immediately should I see any instability (adding on to my previous post, you question how fast we can cash out. I question how silly you are if you can't see a war coming) -
You and i will be activated..
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Some ppl may have no choice , some do. Those that have no choice may have thier own personal reasons. For the better future of themselves ? or ur country. See which one weights more. EVeryone has different priorities and reasons on the scale ah.Originally posted by soul_rage:so what you are implying is that for those Singaporeans that will fight, its only coz they don't have a choice
Then that means there is no real patriotic spirit in this country then?
Real patriotic spirit , mmm... i only know one meaning for patriotic. To do what is best for ur country and even if it means dying , the belief in what ur country stands for. Maybe i am wrong. Anyways ah , its up to oneself lo. -
someone in the govt once said that those singaporeans that migrate are those they want to keep because they have the spirit and courage to venture.
So how about those of us that remained in sg?
Sometimes, I feel like the way the sg government functions is like that of singtel; singtel does all she can to attract new customers, and yet gives her "loyal" customers almost no benefits. I also feel sometimes that sg is being run like too much like a corporation. It may be efficient, but it does not really give us this sense of belonging.
Without this sense of belonging, how many people will be willing to go to war when the time comes? -
Congratulation you have sensed the real picture.Originally posted by eagle:someone in the govt once said that those singaporeans that migrate are those they want to keep because they have the spirit and courage to venture.
So how about those of us that remained in sg?
Sometimes, I feel like the way the sg government functions is like that of singtel; singtel does all she can to attract new customers, and yet gives her "loyal" customers almost no benefits. I also feel sometimes that sg is being run like too much like a corporation. It may be efficient, but it does not really give us this sense of belonging.
Without this sense of belonging, how many people will be willing to go to war when the time comes? -
Geopolitical landscape in SE Asia changing fast if we do not stretch our neck to see whose who? and what is coming; will be caught by surprise. Previously countries appear to be friends could easily become foe.
The 2nd Cold War is probably happening right under our nose. So I suggest taking a closer look at Burma and its nuclear ambition n its china naval base, China rearming and its nationalistic behavior, Taiwan moving towards independent, Sprately oil resources for potential flashpoint. The outcome of Middle east may affect our relationship with our neighbors.
Anytime if there are conflicts in any of these countries Singapore sea lane will get affected all its takes is inbound n outbound freight cargo shipped get boarded for inspection by conflicting nations. RSN will have to conduct escort for both East and West lane.
PRC do not view Singapore as ethnically Chinese Chinese, but view us as oversea chinese that speak mandarin with fundamentally western. Which maybe a concern for PLA if they do take Taiwan by force, As singapore is 80% oversea chinese city states may become a legitimate voice among the western states. Depending if LKY is around or not.
So I would not be surprise if PLA intimidation towards Singapore to butt out. -
True enough, note that I do not laugh at your spirit, but instead applaud your willingness to stand for your country.Originally posted by BadzMaro:Some ppl may have no choice , some do. Those that have no choice may have thier own personal reasons. For the better future of themselves ? or ur country. See which one weights more. EVeryone has different priorities and reasons on the scale ah.
Real patriotic spirit , mmm... i only know one meaning for patriotic. To do what is best for ur country and even if it means dying , the belief in what ur country stands for. Maybe i am wrong. Anyways ah , its up to oneself lo.
However, I do not understand the term patriotism, coz I do not feel any sense of belonging to this place.
To me, its just a place to make money, and then find somewhere else to retire to for a better life -
you all say say only lah.
Everytime complain about the govt .. then whenever another country bully us .. you all will still stand up for Singapore.
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Did I ever say I fight and die for the ministers? No, don't put words in my mouth to justify your own selfishness. In fact, the ministers mean nothing to me. My position would not change even the whole bunch of ministers today resign, or even if they would agree to take only 10% of their pay. You don't understand patriotism, but patriotism only refer to love and loyalty to country, not the king, the emperor, or any human being.Originally posted by soul_rage:anyway, one thing I agree with sgdiehard is, what's the point in arguing anymore?
obviously he stands on the ground he will fight and die for the ministers, while I stand on the ground that I will leave immediately should I see any instability (adding on to my previous post, you question how fast we can cash out. I question how silly you are if you can't see a war coming)
Do not question your ability to cash out, Good Luck.
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People who have no confidence in a country but would only want to remain to make money are not those who "put all eggs in the same basket". Many Chinese Indonesian only maintain the houses where they live in and move everything to Singapore, HK, USA... but Indonesia is not one of their baskets! so that in time of trouble, they only need to get themselves and their families out of their country, with only their clothing on.Originally posted by soul_rage:actually on the contrary, I think you are the one with no sense of reality.
The rich and those with cash to invest are already putting their investments outside of singapore. Do you not know the term 'Don't put eggs in the same basket'?
I am curious to know what I don't know about SAF? Are you telling me our SAF is SO POWERFUL that it has in its arsenal everything that will destroy any aggressor? Do you not understand the massive impact to the economy EVEN IF we manage to repel the aggressor?
In fact, I feel that you are the one whom is immature, with an overdose of arrogance that seemed to believe our island can take on anyone, just as how our leaders speak arrogantly on the world stage.
And I probably have much more assets than you have in your 2 lifetimes. Not only here, but elsewhere.
Singapore IS one of the many baskets for many rich people. As I know, many treasure Singapore more than other baskets because here is their base, and many of them started here. Many of them would do, and can do many things to protect their base. Cashing out is not an option. How determined are they to remain and fight, especially the younger generation of the rich, remains to be seen. But it is premature to say that they would all flee on the first sight of trouble. Don't tell me there were no rich people in Singapore and Malaysia during the Japs occupation. Do not "yi xiao ren zhi xin, du jun zi zhi fu" (judge the integrity of a gentleman with the mind of a villain.)
You really don't have to put words in my mouth and assume what the rich would do (since you are not one of them), or for that matter, what other singaporeans would do, to justify what you want to do. Just go, if Singapore means nothing to you. Leave, if you want to fight along fellow singaporean. Move, if you can find greener pasture elsewhere. Good Luck. -
In the 1st place, who was the one who accused others of not knowing reality? YOU.Originally posted by sgdiehard:People who have no confidence in a country but would only want to remain to make money are not those who "put all eggs in the same basket". Many Chinese Indonesian only maintain the houses where they live in and move everything to Singapore, HK, USA... but Indonesia is not one of their baskets! so that in time of trouble, they only need to get themselves and their families out of their country, with only their clothing on.
Singapore IS one of the many baskets for many rich people. As I know, many treasure Singapore more than other baskets because here is their base, and many of them started here. Many of them would do, and can do many things to protect their base. Cashing out is not an option. How determined are they to remain and fight, especially the younger generation of the rich, remains to be seen. But it is premature to say that they would all flee on the first sight of trouble. Don't tell me there were no rich people in Singapore and Malaysia during the Japs occupation. Do not "yi xiao ren zhi xin, du jun zi zhi fu" (judge the integrity of a gentleman with the mind of a villain.)
You really don't have to put words in my mouth and assume what the rich would do (since you are not one of them), or for that matter, what other singaporeans would do, to justify what you want to do. Just go, if Singapore means nothing to you. Leave, if you want to fight along fellow singaporean. Move, if you can find greener pasture elsewhere. Good Luck.
The reality is simple. Rich people will leave if they have a place to go. Don't bother arguing about WWII, coz your example is moot. Even the rich people have difficulty leaving Singapore and Malaysia (The entire world was in chaos where else can they run to?).
And I am NOT assuming, you can see the way they place their children overseas, etc, that they always plan for the future. Heck, a simple business-minded person will know that its always smart to ensure he has places to run to, should the current place he resides in start having problems.
Yes, Singapore is a basket, but just one of the many baskets they would put, and they would leave the moment it is in trouble. That is why our govt emphasize on SAFE and SECURE country. That's our selling point.
In fact, it is you who are assuming that the rich will stay and fight. Do you have any proof or any form of hints that they might stay to fight? All I see are hints that they will leave. (And its normal. The richer a person is, the more he fears death) -
Again, I applaud your patriotism. Its fine by me, ok, I shan't question your loyalty to Singapore, since I feel that patriotism is a rather noble thought.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Did I ever say I fight and die for the ministers? No, don't put words in my mouth to justify your own selfishness. In fact, the ministers mean nothing to me. My position would not change even the whole bunch of ministers today resign, or even if they would agree to take only 10% of their pay. You don't understand patriotism, but patriotism only refer to love and loyalty to country, not the king, the emperor, or any human being.
Do not question your ability to cash out, Good Luck.
Just that I feel you are too simple-minded, that those who run, you will take watever they left behind.
A simple risk of war will cause our share market to fall, our foreign investors to leave, the economy to go into problems. Not to mention, actual war.
Anyway, what's so selfish about leaving? I would bring my family with me and leave together. What's so unselfish about staying back and fighting and then dying for the sake of a piece of land, only at most to have a plaque erected in memory of the war dead?
How about all the old people? Those whom listened to LKY, whom fight for the country during WWII? I see many of them still working as toilet cleaners and food court cleaners.
So before you start accusing others of no sense of reality, watch yourself at how you accuse people about being selfish. Its very subjective as to what constitutes selfishness. -
Originally posted by Spartans:If Singapore is to go to war...
Will the China-born 'talents' help to defend Singapore? Or will they just run back to China instead?
Many have become Singapore citizens and PR.
If Singapore is going to be invaded, I will not be dumb enough to stay and defend it like how Japanese defended 'Iwo Jima' and lost the war.
Instead I will be General Douglas MacArthur, on losing the Philippines in World War II, said these prophetic words. "I shall return." And that he did, two years later leading an armada of Allied warships and marines to attack the Japanese, which led to a US victory.