Singapore has NO legal minimum wage?
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I wonder... what is the 'government's official stand' on minimum wage. would be interesting to find out what they have to say.
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I completely agree that a minimum wage law will actually help the low income workers. At least that will gurantee that even the lowest of income earners can make ends meet.
The government will then say that a minimum wage law will increase costs of bisuness operations here, and thus make singapore a less attractive place to start a business.
which in turn will open doors to employeers seeking forgien labourt (which is encouraged by the govt) and then gradually depleting the bargaining power of singaporean and PR job hunters. The govt should do something substiantial to protect the job opportunties for its own citizens. -
Like hell they will.Originally posted by Jontst78:I completely agree that a minimum wage law will actually help the low income workers. At least that will gurantee that even the lowest of income earners can make ends meet.
The government will then say that a minimum wage law will increase costs of bisuness operations here, and thus make singapore a less attractive place to start a business.
which in turn will open doors to employeers seeking forgien labourt (which is encouraged by the govt) and then gradually depleting the bargaining power of singaporean and PR job hunters. The govt should do something substiantial to protect the job opportunties for its own citizens.
The Govt is only concerned about bottomline. Period. They do not care who gives them the money, whether foreigner or not. -
unemployment figures are totally irrelevant, if no minimum wage law exists, because the fact still remains that we are unable to improve the quality of life, especially that of the lower income earners.
so why then, does our PM go on and on about the low unemployment rates in our country, when in actual fact, all it ever is to us, is a meaningless number. -
Should we implement a legal maximum wages on high net-worth individual to reduce the poor-rich gaps?
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http://power2thepeoplesg.blogspot.com/
Would a legal minimum wage law help the poverty situation in Singapore? We have the lowest 20% of income earners suffering a drop in average income for the past 10-15 years. While the top 10% of income earner continue to receive income increases. There are households with breadwinners but still struggling to make ends meet.
for example, Australia as a minimum wage law of about $511 Aust per week.
USA about USD5.15 per hour, UK about 5.35 pounds/hour.
According to the Singapore Department of Statistics, The average wage for the lowest 10% of households with income earners was S$459 in year 2000. Bear in mind that 2000 was before SARS and 9/11. For some reason I can't find data on income distribution on the Stat Dept website newer that year 2000. But I figure there will not be a huge difference in the 2006 Data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Growth_in_household_income_by_decile
Some Benefits with implementing a minimum wage law (from wikipedia)
1. Increases the average living standard
2. Creates incentive to work.
3. Minimum wage is administratively simple; workers only need to report violations of wages less than minimum, minimizing a need for a large enforcement agency
4. Stimulates consumption, by putting more money in the hands of low-income people who spend their entire paychecks
5. Increases the work ethic of those who earn very little, as employers demand more return from the higher cost of hiring these employees
6. Decreases the cost of government social welfare programs by increasing incomes for the lowest-paid.
Maybe we should get an MP and lobby for minimum wage laws here in Singapore.
Are you one of those that starts thinking "As long as I give my 10% of my paycheck" or "I donate to charity every month"? Are we, Singaporeans that narcissistic? Do we start ignoring the very real situation about poverty here in Singapore? As long as there is a roof over your head, you got a job, a comfortable life, you children go to school, they are safe, PAP is fine?
Has narcissism and materialism infected the majority of Singaporeans to such a degree, that they think only of their own households, and choose to believe or play along with whatever the PAP says, as long as status quo is maintained?
The poverty here in Singapore is just the symptom of a larger problem (but thats another post of another day). With a fully controlled press that practices self censorship, Singaporeans who are not exposed to foreign press, are only getting one side of the whole story.
Get the government to do something about the high influx of foreign workers, get the government to do something about the minimum wage, and the poorest of the poor here in Singapore. Make them bloody work for their still unjustified multi million dollar salaries. -
Having a job is always better than being unemployed. That is precisely why we must not follow the wlefare states where unemployment benefits are so generous that it does not pay to work.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:You do realise that having a job that barely meets one's needs is practically as good as not having the job whatsoever?
Would you like to for once put yourself in the shoes of a person who cannot make ends meet and stop taking the high horse and saying that they "deserve to die"?
Or have you decided to take advantage of people's suffering for your own selfish benefit?
Lots of foreign workers who take much lower pay than locals not only can make ends meet but send money home as well. If depends on how you manage your finances. Spend within your means. If you cannot make ends meet, it's because you are spending beyond your means. -
You want a minimum wage? Take the minimum wages of workers in the region (Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China) and get an average figure. Set that as our minimum wage and I will have no objection. Our labour costs must remain competitive and those are the places businesses will look for cheap labour if manpower costs become too high in Singapore.Originally posted by Tiggerific:I wonder... what is the 'government's official stand' on minimum wage. would be interesting to find out what they have to say. -
They do not have to support a family in Singapore, nor participate in the regular work-life-play activities that a regular joe here does.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Having a job is always better than being unemployed. That is precisely why we must not follow the wlefare states where unemployment benefits are so generous that it does not pay to work.
Lots of foreign workers who take much lower pay than locals not only can make ends meet but send money home as well. If depends on how you manage your finances. Spend within your means. If you cannot make ends meet, it's because you are spending beyond your means.
Apples and oranges, mind you. It's so simple.
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Too simple for the intellect of a self-proclaimed NHS staff riding the tide of globalisation to comprehend...Originally posted by LazerLordz:They do not have to support a family in Singapore, nor participate in the regular work-life-play activities that a regular joe here does.
Apples and oranges, mind you. It's so simple. -
You keep on calling him names, then the flame war will never end also.Originally posted by walesa:Too simple for the intellect of a self-proclaimed NHS staff riding the tide of globalisation to comprehend... -
They are competitors for the same job. As long as they can do the same job for less pay, employers will take them over you. If you cannot afford to support a large family on your income, you should not start a family. You make the choice, you bear the consequences. Very simple.Originally posted by LazerLordz:They do not have to support a family in Singapore, nor participate in the regular work-life-play activities that a regular joe here does.
Apples and oranges, mind you. It's so simple. -
Average wage for the lowest 10% of household with at least 1 income earner, in year 2000 was $459 Per mth. Not expecting it to be alot better after SARs and 9/11. So we should condone paying S$459 a month to workers as long as their employers continue to earn their millions, and the govt collects its taxes? This is almost as bad as "Wage Slavery".Originally posted by oxford mushroom:You want a minimum wage? Take the minimum wages of workers in the region (Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China) and get an average figure. Set that as our minimum wage and I will have no objection. Our labour costs must remain competitive and those are the places businesses will look for cheap labour if manpower costs become too high in Singapore.
A minimum wage is there to protect the low income workers, to ensure that even the lowest income worker, as long as he/she works, can makes ends meet. Gives them a reason to find a job. Whats the point of having a job that works you half to death, and still you have trouble making ends meet. -
Who's talking about large families? That's so one-dimensional. Do you see people with 5 children running around Singapore these days? Try tempering your reasoning with some actual walk on the ground.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:They are competitors for the same job. As long as they can do the same job for less pay, employers will take them over you. If you cannot afford to support a large family on your income, you should not start a family. You make the choice, you bear the consequences. Very simple.
Too bad, you're not in Singapore. I live here, and I speak them as I see them. -
That's just an accurate depiction of his intellect - and I'm only exercising my right to the freedom of expression.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You keep on calling him names, then the flame war will never end also. 
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Flame war existed because this moron has openly said before that he considers us beneath his dignity to argue fairly.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You keep on calling him names, then the flame war will never end also.
And in any case, this moron has shown from time to time to subscribe to extreme Darwinian ideas where the lowest people are not worth caring about because "it is their fault".
As it is, companies can bully us into submission, while the Govt walks off laughing to the Bank. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
The minimum wage is also often the maximum wage. Let market forces decide what is fair and equitable wages.
what market forces you talking about? cheap foreigner workers to compete with aunties and uncles? i bet ppl like yourself will die old by yourself coz simply.. everyone hates you like the PAP. -
Errmmm......What's up Doc?!Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The minimum wage is also often the maximum wage. Let market forces decide what is fair and equitable wages.
Whether the minimum wage is a maximum wage or not depends on where the minimum wage is set. Is it above equilibrium level or below equlibrium level.
Market forces are unable to decide because of market failure (i.e. control of workers union, where an acceptable wage rate determined by market forces, are unable to come into play due to intervention from controlled workers union). -
If your wife (god only knows who has eyes for you) makes say $1 million a day for a year. While you make $50 a day, does it make sense for you to work?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Having a job is always better than being unemployed. That is precisely why we must not follow the wlefare states where unemployment benefits are so generous that it does not pay to work.
Lots of foreign workers who take much lower pay than locals not only can make ends meet but send money home as well. If depends on how you manage your finances. Spend within your means. If you cannot make ends meet, it's because you are spending beyond your means.
Foreign workers are able to send money home because they have little liabilities here. They are not competing on the same level as us. The house they pay for in China is only one fifth of ours. If you have a loan of $150,000 to buy a 3 room HDB apartment, to repay in 20 years with a 3% p.a. interest, your income for the month would have been reduced by $840. If they make $3,000 gross, I think they have to follow in your footsteps and sideline in Changi Village.
If you really want to talk about being purely competitive, the government should also lower the price of it's HDB to China rates, as with the other essential services. Then we can compete and better manage our finances. -
Yes, those welfare states (Nordic and European) do have a higher unemployment rate, because it's not a smart idea to work since unemployment benefits surpass work wages.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Having a job is always better than being unemployed. That is precisely why we must not follow the wlefare states where unemployment benefits are so generous that it does not pay to work.
Why? It's because they produce goods which are more expensive, thereby making more GDP per capita.
If a family of 6, the father makes $1 million a day. Is there a need for the other family members to work?
If a family of 6, each person makes $50 a day. Can anyone live off welfare from other family members?
Those European countries produced goods like Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Prada, etc, where the cost of production is low and the profits high.
The Economist: pocket world in figures 2007
Balance of payment: current account
Largest surpluses
in $ millions
1) Japan----------$172,060
2) Germany------$103,770
3) China----------$ 68,659
4) Switzerland--$ 60,246
5) Russia---------$ 59,935
6) Saudi Arabia-$ 51,488
7) Norway--------$ 34,445 Singapore----$ 27,897
9) South Korea-$ 27,613
10) Sweden-----$ 27,485
11) Netherlands$ 23,172
12) Canada------$ 22,000
17) Belgium------$ 14,011
24) Finland-------$ 7,529
In a previous thread, you talked about France and Germany having high rates of unemployment, but Germany seems to be doing just fine, because it can afford to payout the unemployment benefits. F.Y.I., Germany's unemployment figures hover around 9% to 11%, it's their natural rate, nothing shocking.
To a non economist and certain intellectually challenged individuals, a high rate of unemployment would seem shocking, but to an economist, the rate if taken to be the natural rate is normal. -
I don't want minimum wage. But if I want minimum brain for comparison I'd know where to look. To the intellectually challenged, they can only think of a single solution (competitive wages) to all their problems. And they keep harping on it like a golden egg, not aware that the egg is iron pyrite.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:You want a minimum wage? Take the minimum wages of workers in the region (Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China) and get an average figure. Set that as our minimum wage and I will have no objection. Our labour costs must remain competitive and those are the places businesses will look for cheap labour if manpower costs become too high in Singapore. -
depending on the job you do. i mean, if you clean the floor everyday, you shouldn't expect a high paying or even a decent paycheck anyway...
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How to make ends meet?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Having a job is always better than being unemployed. That is precisely why we must not follow the wlefare states where unemployment benefits are so generous that it does not pay to work.
Lots of foreign workers who take much lower pay than locals not only can make ends meet but send money home as well. If depends on how you manage your finances. Spend within your means. If you cannot make ends meet, it's because you are spending beyond your means.
Stay under an expressway flyover to eliminate paying for an exorbitant HDB pigeonhole.
Use water from the canal for drinking and washing and streetlights for lighting. Free somemore.
Food? Buddhist lodges provide free food.
That way one can survive on a salary of $20 a month, superbly competitive even by singapore standards.
Deluded mushroom.
Many foreign workers have free/heavily subsidised lodging provided to them by employers. The living costs in their home countries are low, and the little they remit can probably last their families a lifetime.
Spend within singaporeans' means? Follow my example above.
Swiss standard? Nah, we have exceeded the swiss cost of living. -
Again i ask you to put yourself in their shoes, and you give me more more BS. Have you no intellectual capacity of your own? Or did you decide to have your frakking brains sold to some common thief? Did these foreign workers have to food cash to pay 100K for a flat? Did they have to pay so much money for a flat back at home? Are you absolute this stupid and pathetic to the point that all you can give is meaningless responses that only some stupid 6 year old kid could give in some memorisation exam?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Having a job is always better than being unemployed. That is precisely why we must not follow the wlefare states where unemployment benefits are so generous that it does not pay to work.
Lots of foreign workers who take much lower pay than locals not only can make ends meet but send money home as well. If depends on how you manage your finances. Spend within your means. If you cannot make ends meet, it's because you are spending beyond your means. -
even back in China they have different wages system for different cities. Like Shenzhen the min is 710 RMB Dong Guan is 690 RMB