Singapore auditors find irregularities in ministries
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YES THEY ARE.Originally posted by Trump_Card:In a nutshell , they are corrupt ?
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EDB might have lost more than US $50 million in UNSW Asia's saga.
No wonder my ex-neighbour's son as a manager of EDB can drive a M 280 car and brought a condominium at Orchard Road .
Hahaha ,Sillyporeans!!! -
Just like Sean Lee, who absconded with over 500K of SRU funding before disappearing into thin air, can we truly expect that the entire group of ministeries to be clean and honest?
There will always be some tempted by the lure of quick and easy money, and embezzlement immediately comes to mind. Now that such ghastly discrepancies have been made public, how will the ministeries respond? In particular, how will MM Lee respond to this breach in integrity which he prides so well?
The ministers are probably not corrupt, but it is a minority of people below them who work in compartmentalized offices, holding positions which entail TRUST, that will probably be the most likely targets of temptation.
Can anyone build up such a reputation, only to have it come tumbling down like a stack of cards?
Can our govt claim that high wages starve off corruption? If this report is proven to be FACT, the litmus test of high pay vs corruption may just have failed...with disasterous consequences. -
i'm suprised as everything had been legalised
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haha of coz I made the comments in jestOriginally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:"honest mistakes"
I suppose not auditing the EDB for 37 years is an honest mistake.
It took our talents 37 years to figure they needed to audit EDB.
And also, apparently despite 35 years of Nationhood, most of our population is made of stupid people since we so few talents.
Really hope your comments are made in jest.
I am just forecasting what the govt will say.
How many times some screw up happens, and no one is accountable, and they use the same old excuse that most Singaporeans are stupid, so there is no one to replace the smart people -
Er... how do we even know the ministers aren't corrupt when we haven't even heard of audits done on their office finances?Originally posted by BillyBong:Just like Sean Lee, who absconded with over 500K of SRU funding before disappearing into thin air, can we truly expect that the entire group of ministeries to be clean and honest?
There will always be some tempted by the lure of quick and easy money, and embezzlement immediately comes to mind. Now that such ghastly discrepancies have been made public, how will the ministeries respond? In particular, how will MM Lee respond to this breach in integrity which he prides so well?
The ministers are probably not corrupt, but it is a minority of people below them who work in compartmentalized offices, holding positions which entail TRUST, that will probably be the most likely targets of temptation.
Can anyone build up such a reputation, only to have it come tumbling down like a stack of cards?
Can our govt claim that high wages starve off corruption? If this report is proven to be FACT, the litmus test of high pay vs corruption may just have failed...with disasterous consequences.
But that aside, I agree with most of your points. -
Indeed indeed.Originally posted by soul_rage:haha of coz I made the comments in jest
I am just forecasting what the govt will say.
How many times some screw up happens, and no one is accountable, and they use the same old excuse that most Singaporeans are stupid, so there is no one to replace the smart people
And one immediately notes that OM and that troll Gazelle isn't in this thread defending the Govt's talents.
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the government will change the FRS to suit their needs.
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btw which audit firm was this?
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Paper cannot wrap fire. Eventually with so many NKF type of wrongdoings, being exposed which are mainly caused by autocracy and lack of accountability, the ministers will have no choice but to do something.
It will take years for autocracy to free up so that there will be teamwork for efficient, creative and result-oriented governance and greater accountability and transparency, the only way to ensure good management and results.
Ex-president Ong Teng Cheong was right - they are not willing to present the true picture of assets and hidden land sale profits and that is why taxes have to go up causing loss of economic competitiveness and losing of jobs under wrong policies.
Auditing is only a wayang kulit considering that same auditor did not report many wrongful acts and omissions until public pressures come due to NKF.
The government is practising double taxations and making of secret profits on land and asset sales through ministries and GLCs and these are not yet discovered. -
Chey! One look across the board, even the uncle and aunties who sweep our floors will tell you there is governance issue when the PM is also the Minister of finance and his wife manages Temasek and father owns GIC.
This is just the tip of the ice berg. -
That's nepotism...Originally posted by mistyblue:Chey! One look across the board, even the uncle and aunties who sweep our floors will tell you there is governance issue when the PM is also the Minister of finance and his wife manages Temasek and father owns GIC.
This is just the tip of the ice berg. -
Hey that's the power of the PAPOriginally posted by Trump_Card:That's nepotism...
Lots of things are open secrets, but we cannot say it, or we will be sued, coz they will ask you to show proof. And if you cannot show proof, you will be accused of making groundless accusations.
The beauty of PAP is that everything is in your face, but there is no concrete proof -
Well they behave like the govt. They choose and pick battles which they can win to fight.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Indeed indeed.
And one immediately notes that OM and that troll Gazelle isn't in this thread defending the Govt's talents. -
To win a battle for the sake of winning without being supported strongly by a worthwhile cause or effective execution is being adversarial or confrontational.Originally posted by soul_rage:Well they behave like the govt. They choose and pick battles which they can win to fight.
It will be counter-productive for a lawyer to fight a losing case when fundamental and basic problems are being perpetuated.
But do our lawyer leaders have the perspective of not engaging in unnecessary confrontations just for the sake of proving his legalistic wrangling on fallacious arguments for argument sake in every case,
If this has been their perspective then sad to say they would not have the holistic talents needed of a good leader. A good leader should always understand the pros and cons in every situation and not get into unnecessary fight for the sake of fighting like in a court case.
There are many issues of nation building which are yet to be truly understood by our leaders. So far despite some initial ground works and partial success they are being carried away thinking it was a grand success.
Despite all the glaring mistakes and incompetencies which are useless to defend yet they keep defending what are untenable with legalistic wrangling of laws and regulations without clearly defined objectives of what they want to achieve for themselves and for the citizens who trusted them for years.
People have given constant feedbacks yet problems are not solved and they are not able to prove anything new or policies are still working well.
For example, if the ministers want to bring about an education hub they have to be thorough and strategic not only in conceptualizing the hub but be totally excellent in implementation.
What is shown in UNSW is an example of shallow thinking, sub-standard plan inconsistent execution for all the problems like enrolments should have been anticipated and many preemptive measures carried out with the inputs and personal supervision by one of the key ministers. So how do the ministers or their agents defend failures.
Even if such a policy is good but if the execution is poor or inconsistent without carefully coordinated efforts to bring it to success ministers would be seen as lacking ability no matter how good is the policy.
So if UNSW flops within 3 months, there must be something seriously wrong and people would ask where are the shortcomings or setback or flaws of execution.
The irregularities discovered by the AG may be just a tip of the iceberg. People are now expecting more to be done to uncover wrongful spending of monies by every ministry and department.
If ministers want to contend and deny problems they will have the more difficult task or responsibility of taking more effective actions to stop the rot or else more NKF worms will come out.
Any self-approval or taking of people's monies by the ministers like the world's highest pays is legally and morally wrong and is more corrupted than leaving corruptions to take care of itself.
Yet people do not accept them to this day even if ministers have for years been selling this policy to reward themselves based on some fallacious benchmarking. What is wrong is wrong and cannot be made right. They are not the equal of Wee Chaw Yau or Bill Gate or Li Ka Shing but they claim to be so.
This is not something which can be easily excused no matter how right or desirable is the policy to promote meritocrasy or attract talents into public service as execution should not be self-centred or hypocritic. -
I remember a minister went to mention about 150000 local migrated to other countries n asked a question"Can they leave with a conscience?'Originally posted by robertteh:To win a battle for the sake of winning without being supported strongly by a worthwhile cause or effective execution is being adversarial or confrontational.
It will be counter-productive for a lawyer to fight a losing case when fundamental and basic problems are being perpetuated.
But so our lawyer leaders have the perspective of winning on arguments or policies in every case, then he has not the holistic talents to be a leader and a good leader should understand the pros and cons in every situation and not fight for the sake of fighting like in a court case.
There are many issues of nation building to be understood by our leaders and so far they do not seem to understand many key issues at the fundamental level.
Despite all the glaring mistakes and incompetencies which are useless to defend yet they keep defending what are untenable with legalistic wrangling of laws and regulations without clearly defined objectives of what they want to achieve for themselves and for the citizens who trusted them for years.
People have given constant feedbacks yet problems are not solved and they are not able to prove anything new or policies are still working well.
For example, if the ministers want to bring about an education hub they have to be thorough and strategic not only in conceptualizing the hub but be totally excellent in implementation.
What is shown in UNSW is an example of shallow thinking, sub-standard plan inconsistent execution for all the problems like enrolments should have been anticipated and many preemptive measures carried out with the inputs and personal supervision by one of the key ministers. So how do the ministers or their agents defend failures.
Even if such a policy is good but if the execution is poor or inconsistent without carefully coordinated efforts to bring it to success ministers would be seen as lacking ability no matter how good is the policy.
So if UNSW flops within 3 months, there must be something seriously wrong and people would ask where are the shortcomings or setback or flaws of execution.
The irregularities discovered by the AG may be just a tip of the iceberg. People are now expecting more to be done to uncover wrongful spending of monies by every ministry and department.
If ministers want to contend and deny problems they will have the more difficult task or responsibility of taking more effective actions to stop the rot or else more NKF worms will come out.
Any self-approval or taking of people's monies by the ministers like the world's highest pays is legally and morally wrong and is more corrupted than leaving corruptions to take care of itself.
Yet people do not accept them to this day even if ministers have for years been selling this policy to reward themselves based on some fallacious benchmarking. What is wrong is wrong and cannot be made right. They are not the equal of Wee Chaw Yau or Bill Gate or Li Ka Shing but they claim to be so.
This is not something which can be easily excused no matter how right or desirable is the policy to promote meritocrasy or attract talents into public service as execution should not be self-centred or hypocritic. -
It is not common especially in the army in which commanders when being challenged by a subordinate cannot answer their question tried to pull rank.Originally posted by soul_rage:Well they behave like the govt. They choose and pick battles which they can win to fight. -
"Let's move on"
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in another word, this is just for wayang.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Nah, this will be used to show that we are transparent and have an independant civil service.
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Let sit back and see what will the govt deal with the case...
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This sucksOriginally posted by charlize:"Let's move on"
From Vivian Bala (whatever):
"Let's put the pay issue behind us. Its a thing of the past. Let's move on together"
Of coz he wants to move on, since he has gotten his pay rise. -
I will put my bets on their standard tactic:Originally posted by soulwinner:Let sit back and see what will the govt deal with the case...
1. Keep Quiet
2. Maintain a low profile
3. Ensure media doesn't report on this issue again.
Everything will be swept under the mat, and us, Singaporeans being forgetful/stupid/money-grubbing lot, we will forget about it.
Heard my dad telling me the past few days, a lot of stupid people praising the govt for the > $200 (GST offset) that they received -
Without smearing our ministers to the point of defamationOriginally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Er... how do we even know the ministers aren't corrupt when we haven't even heard of audits done on their office finances?
But that aside, I agree with most of your points.
, we should acknowledge that based on assumption, their wage package is already so high it is highly improbable that someone could have the remote possibility of tempting them with bribes? 
Even if their offices are audited with findings, it doesn't definitively prove that ministers are 'corrupt', although they cannot escape culpability if their departments are out of order. -
Unfortunately, the saying "Give the man a limb, he takes an arm" still works in the world, and just giving the guy plenty of money won't stop him from being corrupted.Originally posted by BillyBong:Without smearing our ministers to the point of defamation , we should acknowledge that based on assumption, their wage package is already so high it is highly improbable that someone could have the remote possibility of tempting them with bribes?
Even if their offices are audited with findings, it doesn't definitively prove that ministers are 'corrupt', although they cannot escape culpability if their departments are out of order.
At the essence of corruption is a question of how honest the person wants to be. -
It seems like it requires some brave acts out there to elevate thier thinking.Originally posted by soul_rage:I will put my bets on their standard tactic:
1. Keep Quiet
2. Maintain a low profile
3. Ensure media doesn't report on this issue again.
Everything will be swept under the mat, and us, Singaporeans being forgetful/stupid/money-grubbing lot, we will forget about it.
Heard my dad telling me the past few days, a lot of stupid people praising the govt for the > $200 (GST offset) that they received 