Hitler II wrote:Yes, we can agree with MM Lee that stability is important and there has to be safeguard against instability from lawlessness, injustices, high-handedness and abuse of power and corruption.
The Internal Security Act (ISA) of Singapore allows the Executive to order detention (without charge or trial) of any individual deemed to be a threat to the security or economic life of the state. The individual may be detained for not more than 2 years and this may be extended for a further period or periods not exceeding 2 years at a time, and in short, indefinitely.
Yes of course we will agree with MM Lee that "Stability does not come naturally to Singapore. We are perculiarly vulnerable. If our balance of security and stability is shattered, it is doubtful that if we on our own can ever put Singapore together again" ,which is why we need the Internal Security Department (ISD).
However, there is no real safeguard against abuse of power, for which The Advisory Board under the Act has no power and no court can question the subjective judgement of the minister who issues the order of detention.
Mr Chia Thye Poh, previously a university physics teacher, was detained in 1966 at the age of 25. This led to 32 years of LIFE being taken away, including 22.5 years of detention in various prisons, followed by 3.5 years of internal exile to Sentosa Island and another 6 years of restriction on the mainland. It took the ISD 32 years discover that Mr Chia's conduct "suggests he is unlikely to engage in activities prejudicial to Singapore's security".
As of 2006, 37 individuals were still being detained without trial for the Singapore embassies attack plot uncovered in December 2001. Only four had been released on restriction orders. 37 terrorists? Or are there individuals who have a life, family and bright future having their life wasted and decimated? (currently, 39 individuals are detained under ISA for suspected involvement in terrorism and espionage)
Amnesty International,which campaigned for Mr Chia Thye Poh since 1969, believes that Chia Thye Poh's 22.5 years' detention without trial, and the subsequent prolonged restriction of his freedom of expression, association and movement, are a potent symbol of the oppressive effects of the ISA on Singapore's political and civil life. The ISA remains at the heart of a formidable array of legislation which restricts the ability of Singaporeans to enjoy fundamental human rights. Such laws continue to effectively deter Singaporeans from expressing dissenting political opinions, or from participating in political life without the consent -- overt or tacit -- of the ruling People's Action Party (PAP).
To make things worst, there is the discussion of an amendment that the SAF will be empowered to search, detain and use reasonable force against terror suspects. This Pandora's box contain exigent issues such as abuse of power and subjective judgment of the personnels empowered.
Of course we need laws to prevent and suppress potential threats to our society, but I believe that maybe we can start to think of win-win alternatives, such that in protecting our citizens' lives, we do not take away any Singaporean's life. Any suggestions?
Originally posted by hloc:Yes communism was bad at one time and some strict laws were necessary to prevent people from taking part in undesirable subortage against the state or laws and orders.
Well.... lets put it this way. Before Sept 11th, the USA and British always have some kind of complaint against our ISA. But when 9-11 happens, they now find that they can't arrest or detain suspect due to [b]not HAVING a law like ISA. A question we must ask ourselves.... do we want to wait for a act of terror to happen before we act....or stop it before it could happen.....
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Personally, I don't see any justification for nonsensical legislations like ISA - counter-terrorism is not a good enough excuse IMO.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The ISA has to stay.
But it's powers should be limited to strategic threats and counter-terrorism.
I would also propose dropping the mandatory death penalty and replacing it with detention without trial for drug traffickers, period as deemed fit by the President.
Unfortunately, ISA is liable to being abused and it has been abused for far too long.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Certain detainees may not be brought to open court because intelligence operations may be compromised.
If for deterrance sake, the ISA is still useful, as long as the habeaus corpus panel has great latitude in deciding prisoner status.
That's sadly true. Though strictly speaking, it hasn't been used for political purposes for around 20 years now.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Unfortunately, ISA is liable to being abused and it has been abused for far too long.
Not exactly 20years. I recall that incident involving social activists was in the late 80s. However, they have since switched to exiling people from Singapore, much like Tang Liang Hong who reported death threats.Originally posted by LazerLordz:That's sadly true. Though strictly speaking, it hasn't been used for political purposes for around 20 years now.
The wide interpretative notion of the ISA opens itself up for abuse.
There're precedences of such cases around the world where people have been tried for espionage and treason in a court of law - with the corresponding penalties meted out - without having the evidence leaked to the public (such trials will normally not be open to the public). Basically, in such cases, the suspects are still subjected to a free and fair trial without being arbitrarily detained without a substantial rhyme or reason. Although proponents of the ISA would draw parallels with what's happening at Guantanamo Bay, I don't think the two examples merit direct comparison because the contextual application of the practice is different.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Certain detainees may not be brought to open court because intelligence operations may be compromised.
If for deterrance sake, the ISA is still useful, as long as the habeaus corpus panel has great latitude in deciding prisoner status.
Originally posted by robertteh:Chia Thye Poh claimed that in all his 32 years of incarceration, he was regularly taunted with freedom if only he will make a sworn statement that he will renounce violence.
Up to now, people still do not know whether Chia Thye Poh is a communist or indeed if he was a self-confessed communist did he possess any weapons of violence like bombs or guns which he intended to use it to overthrow the government.
Similarly, those who were accused as Marxist Conspirators were less inocuous then the members of the Ruling Party in creating political instability with their personal actions.
We also did not know up till now whether the so-called marxist conspirators who were arrested indeed have resorted to immoral or unconsienable means or any violence to overthrow elected (GRCed) government.
The pay check was cleverly arranged to be approved by a Parliament that is stuffed by a members from a single party - which dominate Parliament, and rubber stamping all Bills presented by the Executive Branch of the Government.
Is writing one's own pay cheque or NKF malpractices one such key causes of instability of law and order. If so, shouldn't perpetrators (taking monies from taxpayers without voting) be facing the trial by ISA as well.
In China such taking of public monies by official without proper approval by the state could face the firing squad.
I agree we need to give the president something to do. But lets not allow the job to decide on the lives of traffickers justifies further increases in his salary. Drug trafficking is a multi-billion $ business in the whole region.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The ISA has to stay.
But it's powers should be limited to strategic threats and counter-terrorism.
I would also propose dropping the mandatory death penalty and replacing it with detention without trial for drug traffickers, period as deemed fit by the President.
Hi hloc,Originally posted by hloc:Sorry... I prefer 'Safety' from would be terroist, then let would be terroist have more rights. My personal view......
Hi Hitler II...... long & short of my answer will be NO......Originally posted by Hitler II:Hi hloc,
I believe that your personal view is understood and respected by everyone. However, in the name of deterrence from possible threats, will you be willing to be detained without trial if you were suspected to be involved in some illegal operations? And that the length of detention to be indefinite? According to the ethical principal of reversibility/reciprocity, you will be willing to be put under the same circumstance as what you find acceptable for others to be put through."
Originally posted by hloc:Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security. -Benjamin franklin
Hi Hitler II...... long & short of my answer will be [b]NO......
NO, I don't want to be arrested......
NO, I'm not into any illegal activity.....
NO, I don't think the Govt has been behaving like a dictator, the prove being that most of us here are not under arrest or anything....
NO, I still believe prevention is better than cure, the JI case prove it.
NO, the world is not fair..... and all those u QUOTED are Ideas from GREAT man about a perfect WORLD...... But sadly, this WORLD is far from perfect.
btw..... the same Great Man you quoted from now have followers who insist that you join them or die...... so much for following ethical principal of reversibility/reciprocity[/b]
Hi (human)......Originally posted by (human):Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security. -Benjamin franklin
It is obviously that you are not putting your leg in the victim's shoe, that's why you have not objected how the law mistreated the victims. From the case we seem above, it has shown some form of extreme that the ISA has gone into of detaining without trial.
I shall not blame you. Some people are born blind of not seeing the truth.Originally posted by hloc:btw..... I too believe that as any Law, the ISA could be abused. But I don't think the Govt have abused it...... yet![]()
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Thxs.... just like i too find some will see darkness in the light of day. Good day to U....Originally posted by (human):I shall not blame you. Some people are born blind of not seeing the truth.
The idiots will reap what they sow, really.Originally posted by hloc:Thxs.... just like i too find some will see darkness in the light of day. Good day to U....![]()