Nobody's baby- 4.9 million Palestinian homeless refugees.
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Wiki :
Current Palestinian refugee counts include:
Jordan 1,827,877 refugees
Gaza 986,034 refugees
West Bank 699,817 refugees
Syria 432,048 refugees
Lebanon 404,170 refugees
Saudi Arabia 240,000 refugees
Egypt 70,245 refugees
The United Nations definition of a "Palestinian refugee" is a person "whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict
The Israeli government passed the Absentee Property Law, which cleared the way for the confiscation of the property of refugees. The government also demolished many of the refugees' villages, and resettled many Arab homes in urban communities with Jewish refugees and immigrants.
The situation of the Palestinian Arab refugees is one of the world's largest and most enduring refugee problems. Discussions to allow them to return to their former homes within Israel, to receive compensation or be resettled in new locations have yet to reach a definite conclusion.
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Would the refugees' problems go away with Israeli military suppression?
Why cant we live together peacefully? -
obviously you never read the history, and follow the news at all
those palestinian has been engaging in suicide bombing, for god knows, how long already
try and ask them to stop whatever they are doing -
No, they started throwing stones at Israelis tanks remembered?Originally posted by allentyb:
obviously you never read the history, and follow the news at all
those palestinian has been engaging in suicide bombing, for god knows, how long already
try and ask them to stop whatever they are doing -
Both are in the wrong.
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go read about that asswipe rotting in hell now, arafat...
hey.. the palestinians are a great excuse used by the arabs to hammer israel..
and the palestinians aren't exactly the best people around.. hey.. when jordan let them in, they tried to assassinate the king there!
btw, there is no such thing as 'palestinian'
it was uttered by someone in the PLO..
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
think about it
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
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agree. so many vicious cycles of violence till now, until dunno which is cause which is effect.Originally posted by Skibi:Both are in the wrong. -
the palestinians are no angles...they've created problems where ever they go...they almost destabilised jordon decades ago, forcing even the previous jordanian king to go out fighting in the streets...now in lebanon, they are robbing banks and fighting the host country's military...even among themselves, hamas and plo are killing each other...so no sympathies from me.....
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these refugees are now in their third generation, with no glimpse of hope for their future and going back.Originally posted by countdracula:the palestinians are no angles...they've created problems where ever they go...they almost destabilised jordon decades ago, forcing even the previous jordanian king to go out fighting in the streets...now in lebanon, they are robbing banks and fighting the host country's military...even among themselves, hamas and plo are killing each other...so no sympathies from me..... -
excessive power struggle within, infighting for power and supported by various countries in the region. I think it helps if there is single voice and able to sezie the opportunity to create a stable states.
what happen to all the money that Arafat accumulate? -
Sad fact is they use all their money and energy in suicide bombing ! fighting among themselves and isreal !!! Yep blame everything and everyone but themselves .Originally posted by allentyb:
obviously you never read the history, and follow the news at all
those palestinian has been engaging in suicide bombing, for god knows, how long already
try and ask them to stop whatever they are doing
Till they wake up and use their money and energy in making their live better, no one can help them , they have themselves to blame !!! -
So who is the big winner??
G8 lor...
sigh... Politics in this age are fueled by human desire. And human desire is like a bottomless pit...
The thought of this really make one shiver... -
Israel first became a nation in 1312 BCE ( remember to buy 4D) fast forwardÂ…Â…Â…Â…..summary of The Israeli War of Independence 1948.
The 7 converging Arab armies urged the Arabs to leave Israel so that they would not be in the way of their attack. They had anticipated a swift and successful annihilation odf the Jews and promised the fleeing Arabs that they could return later to possess the spoils. The Arab armies were confident that the war would be over in 2 weeks.
The war lasted more than 13 months. Victory went to Israel. Some Arabs did stayed behind during the war. They remain as Israeli citizens after the war.
Gaza strip and west bank were part of Israel when she declared Independence in 1948. These territories were captured by Egypt And Jordan during the war.
The fleeing Arabs did not return to Israel. They became refugees. The Arab nations did not want to accept them.
The Arab nations have one goal, which is the destruction of Israel.
So the plan is to keep the regfugeesÂ’ bitterness and anger alive, to let them continue to live under sub normal conditions and in poverty.
So, the conflict continues till this day. -
Plenty of ignoramus in Sgforums. Read this BBC article:
"Forty years after the Middle East war of 1967 and nearly 60 since the establishment of Israel, there is no Arab-Israeli issue that remains as utterly divisive as the fate of Palestinian refugees.
In the course of Israel's creation in 1948 and its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, more than half the Arabs of pre-1948 Palestine are thought to have been displaced.
Today there are millions of Palestinians living in exile from homes and land their families had inhabited for generations.
Many still suffer the legacy of their dispossession: destitution, penury, insecurity.
Palestinian historians, and some Israelis, call 1948 one of the biggest, most comprehensive examples of ethnic cleansing in history - perpetrated by the Haganah (later the Israeli Defence Forces) and armed Jewish gangs.
Official Israeli history, by contrast, says most Palestinian refugees left to avoid battle or at the behest of Arab leaders, though it admits a "handful" of expulsions and unauthorised killings.
What is undisputed is that the refugees' fate is excluded from most Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts because, given a right of return, their numbers endanger the future of the world's only Jewish state.
The issue of the refugees is therefore seen by many Israelis as an existential one.
Massive displacement
Four million UN-registered Palestinian refugees trace origins to the 1948 exodus; 750,000 people belong to families displaced in 1967 - many for the second time. Palestinian advocacy group Badil says another million and a half hail from pre-1948 Palestine but were not UN-registered, while an additional 274,000 were internally displaced inside Israel after 1948, and 150,000 were displaced in the occupied territories after 1967.
That makes more than six million people, one of the biggest displaced populations in the world.
Israel steadfastly argues that all refugees - and it disputes the numbers - should relinquish any aspirations to return to what is now its territory, and instead be absorbed by Arab host countries or by a future Palestinian state.
It disavows moral responsibility by arguing that 800,000 Mizrahi Jews were displaced from Arab countries between 1945 and 1956 (most of whom settled in Israel) and insists Palestinians left willingly.
But that view is at odds with UN General Assembly Resolution 194 and Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Resolution 194 asserts the refugees' unconditional right of return to live at peace in their old homes or to receive compensation for their losses.
Disputed status
Whatever the rights and wrongs of their cause, the practicality of return and questions of moral justice, in Mid-East diplomacy the refugees' fate has been largely ignored.
This has been achieved by a dual process pegging all solutions to the Arab-Israeli conflict to the 1967 war, and discounting the events of 1948 as a element of the conflict.
Israel has effectively deployed a number of arguments to justify this, such as saying that it is the only Jewish state, the refuge of Jews from around the world, while there are 22 Arab countries where the refugees could go.
It also points out that UN General Assembly resolutions have no force under international law and says the unassimilated refugee population has been held hostage by frontline Arab states waiting for Israel's destruction.
The diplomatic focus on 1967 has been advantageous for Israel: territory occupied at that time is regarded as the entire problem, and solutions can therefore be limited to dividing up that land.
This is problematic for Palestinians, however, because it sidelines the Nakba, the "catastrophe" of 1948 - an issue that for them lies at the heart of the conflict.
Demographic prerogative
Palestinians accuse Israel of a kind of "Nakba-denial", absolving itself of liability, but thereby condemning itself to perpetual conflict with its Arab neighbours.
Israel vigorously denies such a characterisation. Official histories justify what happened in 1948 by saying the new Jewish state was threatened with annihilation by invading Arab armies.
But so-called revisionist Israeli historians say Israel's founding prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, exaggerated the Arab threat, so he could implement a covert plan to expel Palestinian civilians and grab as much of the former Palestine as possible.
Demography - the need to have a large majority of Jews to sustain a Jewish state - has certainly been a key concern for Israel since its foundation.
Under a 1947 UN-sanctioned plan to partition Palestine, Israel would have been established on 55% of the former territory, and without a significant transfer of population the Jews in that territory would have scarcely have exceeded the Arab population there.
The 1948 war ended with Israel in control of 78% of the former Palestine, with a Jewish-Arab ratio of 6:1.
The equation brought security for Jewish Israelis, but emptied hundreds of Palestinian villages and towns of 700,000 inhabitants - the kernel of the Palestinian refugee problem today.
With the justification of not wanting to jeopardise its Jewish majority, Israel has kept Palestinian refugees and their descendants out of negotiations on a settlement to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
But for most Palestinians, their fate remains an open wound, unless there is a Middle East peace deal that acknowledges what happened to the refugees."
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6659239.stm)
Israel will never allow the refugees back, many of whom are still holding the title deeds to theor homes. Neither will the palestinians give up their homeland nor should they. The israel-palestinian problem will never be solved unless Israel commits genocide and wipe out every single palestinian (which it cannot do) or the palestinians succeed in driving every single Jew out to the sea (even more unlikely). Therefore, these two people are fated to continue the daily tit-for-tat targeted killing, suicide bombing, missle attack, kidnapping..... -
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6 day war wasn't it started by Israeli? After Egypt was attacked Israeli gave false info that it was Egypt that had launched an attacked on them, according to BBC radio today.Originally posted by the Bear:
Kind of misleading leh the 'history'. -
hey.. this tells you that stories are made up depending on whose side you are on
got your attention?
go view this.. clicky here => News? or made up?Originally posted by qpicanto:6 day war wasn't it started by Israeli? After Egypt was attacked Israeli gave false info that it was Egypt that had launched an attacked on them, according to BBC radio today.
Kind of misleading leh the 'history'. -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
The statement in bold may be inaccurate.The fact is Gaza strip and west bank were occupied by Egypt and Jordan after the Israeli war of independence ended.
Israel first became a nation in 1312 BCE ( remember to buy 4D) fast forwardÂ…Â…Â…Â…..summary of The Israeli War of Independence 1948.
The 7 converging Arab armies urged the Arabs to leave Israel so that they would not be in the way of their attack. They had anticipated a swift and successful annihilation odf the Jews and promised the fleeing Arabs that they could return later to possess the spoils. The Arab armies were confident that the war would be over in 2 weeks.
The war lasted more than 13 months. Victory went to Israel. Some Arabs did stayed behind during the war. They remain as Israeli citizens after the war.
Gaza strip and west bank were part of Israel when she declared Independence in 1948. These territories were captured by Egypt And Jordan during the war.
The fleeing Arabs did not return to Israel. They became refugees. The Arab nations did not want to accept them.
The Arab nations have one goal, which is the destruction of Israel.
So the plan is to keep the regfugeesÂ’ bitterness and anger alive, to let them continue to live under sub normal conditions and in poverty.
So, the conflict continues till this day.
Another fact - BBC reports on Israeli-Palestinian issues are known to be biased against Israel. -
Violence is like gamblin, you win big or you lose big.
Mahatma Ghandhi non-violence tactics is best.
It is like working, and slowly building up your assets.
If only the Palestinians and the Tamil Tigers have pursued their agenda by peaceful means these past 30 years, they would have achieve much more now, than the did with violence. -
Ask Singapore gahmen to adopt these babies so they can solve the problem of low birth rate. ha ha!!
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poor guys.....
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I doubt it. Israel achieved its independence from Britain after years of launching terrorist attacks. How quickly have people forgotten that Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated Lord Moyne, the British Minister of State with responsibilities for Middle East. Israeli terrorists (the Irgun) blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing or injuring more than 200 persons.Originally posted by mancha:Violence is like gamblin, you win big or you lose big.
Mahatma Ghandhi non-violence tactics is best.
It is like working, and slowly building up your assets.
If only the Palestinians and the Tamil Tigers have pursued their agenda by peaceful means these past 30 years, they would have achieve much more now, than the did with violence.
The Irgun was a terrorist organization based on the premises formulated by Ze'ev Jabotinsky that "every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs and the British; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state". (Howard Sachar: A History of the State of Israel, pps 265-266 ). Guess who ordered the bombing of the King David Hotel? None other than Menachem Begin, who became the prime minister of Israel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing)
Might is right. Terrorists become freedom fighters and monsters become prime ministers provided they win the war. As for the future, at the rate Palestinians are reproducing, the time will come when they can send half the population as suicide bombers and yet have more than enough left over to produce another generation to take over. -
Ideally the Palestinians youth should be spared the violence and propaganda but hard la.Originally posted by mancha:Violence is like gamblin, you win big or you lose big.
Mahatma Ghandhi non-violence tactics is best.
It is like working, and slowly building up your assets.
If only the Palestinians and the Tamil Tigers have pursued their agenda by peaceful means these past 30 years, they would have achieve much more now, than the did with violence.
Since Israel still open to talks about a Palestinian State, why don't they grab it first? -
Well, I think the majority of Palestinians and Israelis would like to lead simple, peaceful, secure and prosperous lives. However, the Palestinian diaspora have nothing on which to build their lives on. They have no land, and they have no rights. Such a situation tends to breed despair, which leads to anger, which turns to hatred, which is the path to the dark side....
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This kind of issues is never a two party issue... In fact, there is always a third party that fuel the dispute between these two.
The crimes, people, happiness are just simply casino chips on the table. The final winners will be the person who own the casino. There is always another casino open even if the existing one closed down. This is the harsh fact of life. It is harsh to learn people who can feel, crimes that hurts, their happiness are actually casino chips.
Gandhi is a legend. But his unrealistic ideas die away with him after he is being murdered. I called it a legend because I think there is only one in many billions that is able to do like him. People respect him because of his ideas but cant share the same ideas as him. As a result, after his death, I always see pakistan and india in casino.
There are many examples in past, in present, that this harsh fact exist in life. My feelngs for those have long been anesthesia. -
Salaam,
Firstly i would like to say that Arabs and Jews are semites,cousin.
They are of the seeds of Abraham.
According to evangelicals,they support Isreal becasue first,jews are the Hcosen people and second,they want the Prophecy of rapture to come true.
Search google for what the Prophecy entails.
To sum it up,Isreal becomes a nation,the anti chrisita appear,then Propeht Jesus as comes back,then all jews will be FORced into chrisitanity,those that dont will be massacared.
So that is the thological grounds.
We must not forget that the hawks in the Bush adminsitraion are mostly BORN again.
So this is a vlaid argument.
also one must also consider that the evangelical movement in the US holds much clout.
they are able to bring about great political upheaval.
Now for the political side.
As i said before both Jews and Arabs are semites.
Pre Isreal/Plaesitne,the inhabitant of that place are muslim chrisitan/catholics and jews.
The 3 lived in peace in seperate worship,respecting one another.
Till the start of Zionism.
the laws in Isreal discriminatory and racist.
Any Jews who retunr to Isreal is a CITIZENS.
Is that right?
While those who have lived there for generation are displaced on their land.
Forcibly and under humiliation.
enough to say,both jews and arabs beign cousin are very much alike.
they grab what they want.
And for both sides they want the land.
the loss of lives is current 1:30 ,,for every one isrealis dead there are 30 palesitnian dead.
But hopefully the land wont be in war much longer for nature wins out.
google for birthrate.
the Jewish birthrate world wide is 1 while the Arab Isrelais are 3X and Palestinian are 4X.
So int erm of number the future generati0n is decided,Isreal will be renamed Palestine.
the only way for Isreal to maintain control is for it to kill as many Palestinian as possible.
Or to oppress the palesitnian to the point they become meek as lambs.
Both are happening now.
Indiscriminate bombing,shooting at schoos and using of excessive WMD.
While the oppresion is by dividign families,stealing land and building an apartheid wall.
But like i say,arabs are stuborn people.
as the Iraq war has shown,the giant has been culled,no matter how strong you are,as long as the will exist,the enemy will be defeated.
One point i wish to higlight is that most people assume that Arabs hate Isrealis and wish for their deaths/
My simply reply to this is,Hezbollah captured 3 Isrealis solderis,,,they are still alive.
Hamas captured 1 Isrealis soldier,he is still alive.
theya re treated as Islamic law command,humanely
Cna the smae be said of how Isrelais treat palestinians?
