All out to defame our governement
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Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties. -
Here pooch!
Here pooch!
I have a nice yummy bone for you.
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they have done even more to enrich themselves...
as if a $2 million wage isn't enough?
they pack the place with their own cronies, they stack the deck to their own advantage with the view of squeezing everyone out...
it is not for the country.. it is for themselves...
even if someone else has a better idea (which they keep challenging everyone to come up with) the person will be mashed and destroyed...
explain things like GRCs, astronomical wages for themselves, their ivory tower/elite behaviour... the list goes on..
sometimes we question their competence.. but always, we question their integrity..
a government of the people, by the people, for the people.. but they have removed themselves from the people and set themselves apart...
hey.. sometimes, we don't have to be first
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complains from the low-income citizens has gotta be the taxes and price hikes.
they indeed did alot for singapore, like u said 40 odd yrs, but most often than not, at the expense of us citizens. because they have their wages upped faster and more than commoners, their also more-than-often hikes does not really affect them. indeed, we have to pay a share to gain the 'improvements' for our life but how much goodness in the 'improvements' do we see? take bus and taxi price hikes for example, u dun see much difference between 10yrs ago and now.
the rich doesnt get affected by the 'minor hikes' and the poor becomes poorer. does getting and avg of $300(still have to minus for CPF) reflect the amount we gonna spend on GST? -
Le xiong si mi si NATO bo?Originally posted by citymax:Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties. -
Insults or unhappiness with the current system? Make the distinction.Originally posted by citymax:Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties.
There are more and more Singaporeans who feel that the current system of government cannot bring Singapore to the next level.
You'd best watch how you use words like "defame" as well. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:Here pooch!
Here pooch!
I have a nice yummy bone for you. -
Nobody is out to "defame" the government.Originally posted by citymax:Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties.
The motive is for the betterment of Singaporean lives.
How many hours you work now as compared to 40 odd years ago?
If you are the few percentage of unemployed whose livelihood have been overtaken by "foreign talents", as a result of the government's policy, you might have a totally different perspective.
Society progresses forward, not backwards, no matter how backward your society is.
Every country has it's troublesome period, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea all have their difficult times. If someone saves your life, should you still be eternally grateful if he decides to massacre your family later on. They were good in the past, but does not mean that they are good now.
Was it good for us to gain independence from the British? If we had remained a colony like Hong Kong, our accomplishments could have surpassed Hong Kong. What the old man did was get Foreign Direct Investments (FDI) to invest in Singapore, as a result none of these establish companies hold any loyalty to Singapore. When times are good, they invest in factories, make use of our manpower resources and infrastructure. When times are bad, they leave us for other markets, taking away all their capital with them. Fair weather friends! Hong Kong on the other hand, has a larger share of local enterprises, which results from the British colonial free market system. These local enterprises being intrinsically Hong Kong will have it's loyalty to Hong Kong.
How did they help us during economic crisis? Can you elaborate?
Minister assisting during SARS outbreak. Are they not receiving salary? If you pay me a quarter of their pay, I would glady work 16 hours a day every day for 5 years. Are they doing voluntary work during SARS period or are they still paid million dollar salaries? They didn't do anything out of the ordinary, just improvised more registration so that it's easier to trace possible carriers. Any common person could do that. -
agree with you that the PAST government had done alot of policies that benefited the people but the present government?
look at some the ministries. after years without auditing, look at what was digged out. leave the rest to your imagination. -
No one is defaming them
They are paid to run the country for the betterment of the country
Hell, usually people do that for the love of the country but since they keep reminding us that it's the money, and they are paid an obscene figure compared to countries 100 times bigger than us
At the same time, I wish they will stop insulting our intelligence by giving absurb reasons on price hikes and GST hike etc -
The success of a company is the result of good management and good workers working in sync, not a result of good management. If you have good management and bad workers, your company will collapse just as you would a bad management and good workers.
Claiming that the success of Singapore belongs solely to the management is baseless. -
whiners will always be whiners regardless of what the government did does or is doing because they are unable to see the big picture of what the government is doing and the blinds here are always lead the blind.
a) Like I said before, the whiners here are like the domesticated puss.y cats that are spoilt and lazy, and now that our government is brining in wild cats (aka FT) to the community they feel threaten and all they can do is meow!!
b) Most people here are always blaming the government whenever there is a price increase, be it food stuffs, housing, transportation etc, without realising the true cause of increase.
It seems like they have conveniently forgotten that
i) Higher oil price caused by iraq will inflat the cost of every items that we use everyday. e.g. oil based plastic products, logistic cost, energy cost etc.
ii) Global M&A activities which create a natural monopoly in many industry.
c) The reason why the world is becoming so competitive is because of globalisation and breakthrough in technology. Somehow the whiners will not complain they they have PS3 to play, and new phone to show off, but when coming to compete with the world, they will make hell lot of noise saying out government is useless and bla bla bla.
d) Whiner here are just like couch potato, seating comfortably at home, and all they are capable of doing is complaining that this movie is not good, the TV is too small, the sofa is not comfortable, the room is too warm..etc.
e) When they run out of excuses, they will start to point their finger at the minister salary, which we all already know that its the highest in the world. And just because our system is unique, it is by default that it is wrong and we must follow USA, British or Austrlian style of democracy.
I am just wondering have they ever question why a CEO or manager should be paid higher than a factory workers when the factory workers are actually work more hours in the company?
Or could it be that they are unknowingly suggesting that Singapore should be run like a communist country. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:They are even "jealous" of sick people going to class C wards while they have no qualms taking millions in public money every year (the chief dictator's family take approx S$10million)....
wake up people... you fall sick and you want to save money by going to class C wards... those that take millions in public money are "jealous" of you doing that!
It is right for them to take public money for even more luxuries but sick people cannot go to class C wards to save money...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Oh OK... let me explain...
The feelings might not be "explicit" but the effect is the same...
Isn't it as good as they are "jealous" in a manner of speaking?
They look at the statistics and they see some people that they think can afford class B wards, are going to class C wards. Or class A wards going to class B wards.
They are not "happy"; they are "jealous"; they have to do something about it!
Why don't they get "not happy", "jealous" with themselves for taking millions on top of millions of public funds that could have gone to more hospital beds?
It is wrong for sick people to worry and try to spend less money for hospitalizations but it is right for them to live in even more luxury using public money???
These are sick people. Generally, nobody goes to hospital for the fun of it.
Do you know that you can stay in hospital and get paid for it as research subjects. Yet, I keep getting emails to ask me to participate. Why? People just do not want to go to hospitals even if they are paid for it! -
A company can be successful today and obsolete tomorrow regardless how good the workers or the management. The key to a successful company is a company that has a vision and a strong leader to drive the team towards the vision. And as for a country where 3.5 million residents are at stake, it is equally important that we have a leader that will not abandon the ship when we encounter obstacleOriginally posted by maurizio13:The success of a company is the result of good management and good workers working in sync, not a result of good management. If you have good management and bad workers, your company will collapse just as you would a bad management and good workers.
Claiming that the success of Singapore belongs solely to the management is baseless.
Managing a company is already becoming a science instead of art, because you could depend on tools suchs GMP, ISO, Six Sigma etc to improve the company efficiency and system. What is hard to come by is a strong leader and that is a reason why companies are willing to pay millions to get the right CEO and management teams to lead the company. -
My take, 2 factorsOriginally posted by citymax:Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties.
First one, the judicary. The heavy handedness of the PAP, the proverbial sledge-hammer. The amending of the constitution to entrench their occupation in parliament. The many opposition members who have been unjustly treated, the creation of unjust laws to curtail freedom of speech and peaceful assembly.
(If I remember correctly, even the american embassy was perplexed as to why the govt disallowed protestors in front of their compound.)
Second one, the people want to be taken seriously by government. For example, the debate of the civil service pay raise was not even a substiantial factor in the final decision. Not even a vote was taken. It give an impression of a skin deep presentation of "people having a say" but no real substance or value in the debates of the opposition members, in the eyes of the Cabinet.
When PAP doesn't have total power, say only a slight majority, they will be alot more sensative to the voices of the general population. Many feel the acute need for the Government to move away from the LKY Quote "We decide what is right, nevermind what the people think".
http://power2thepeoplesg.blogspot.com/2007/05/voting-for-opposition-bad-move-what.html
Firstly, a credible opposition doesn't equate to overthrowing the government, or even a revolution. A credible opposition does not mean destabilizing the Government, which what some people fear. Overthrowing the government is not the objective here. Placing a credible opposition in parliament has to start gradually, by taking small steps....
With 40% percent seats in parliament, PAP still in power, but no total control over the government.
What is the most important key to rule a nation? Its the absolute power and control of the law.
And what is the supreme law of the land? It is the Constitution of The Republic of Singapore.
We cannot have a single party have total rule over the constitution.
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So we cannot have PAP occupying more that 66% seats in parliament. Actually 40% 30% 30% would be ideal. So to amend the constitution, at 2 parties will need to be convinced. And PAP will have to streamline to keep only their very best, demand for oppostion memebers will greatly increase and picking PAP as the party to join will no longer be a "nobrainer" for aspiring politicians. Voting will then really involve serious deliberation on the part of the voter.
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But how? Most voters are only interested in:Originally posted by Jontst78:Voting will then really involve serious deliberation on the part of the voter.Originally posted by forum_dude:BASICALLY I WENT TO A MESSAGE PARLOUR AND ASK FOR SPE4CIAL SERVICE AND TRIED A GOOD FIGURE AND HAVE SEXY TIME WITH THEM YEA BABY -
Originally posted by maurizio13:Here pooch!
Here pooch!
I have a nice yummy bone for you. 
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Thanks for all the valuable input that will make Singapore a better place to live in. I do agree we have incompetent leaders. The policies the present government bring out might please some and also will agitate a few. Some will benefits from the policies and some will suffer.
We cant be promoting a country tat can please everyone, or taking money out from the treasury to give to the people every month. Do rem that we are a small country, these money are a global advantage for us. Have u ever thought why our neighbouring country keep presuring us and send rumours among our ppl. this is to create a society unstable/chaos, and unfortunately, we prefer to hear things that we like to hear. that is why ppl in singapore keep on complaining on the system of the government.
In the coporate world, i do believe some of the management personnel also not up to the marks and also drawing millions of dollar a year. This is true and we cant have all the good apple in a big basket, there tend to have some rotten ones. -
i will not entertain useless reply like this.Originally posted by maurizio13:Here pooch!
Here pooch!
I have a nice yummy bone for you. -
So you telling me that with good management, the company can function without it's workers?Originally posted by Gazelle:A company can be successful today and obsolete tomorrow regardless how good the workers or the management. The key to a successful company is a company that has a vision and a strong leader to drive the team towards the vision. And as for a country where 3.5 million residents are at stake, it is equally important that we have a leader that will not abandon the ship when we encounter obstacle
Managing a company is already becoming a science instead of art, because you could depend on tools suchs GMP, ISO, Six Sigma etc to improve the company efficiency and system. What is hard to come by is a strong leader and that is a reason why companies are willing to pay millions to get the right CEO and management teams to lead the company.
The success of a company is based on good management and workers. All other bullsh|t you post is irrelevant, just some propaganda sh|t again. Important to have a leader of a country that will not abandon ship!!! Is it possible with the kind of ministers we have, where salary comes first and foremost before country? We don't even need an obstacle for them to abandon ship, you pay them $1 million less and they will move to some other profitable venture. Their motto, show me the money, then show me the country.
Your second paragraph is useless propaganda again, I didn't mention anything you stated in there. You barking up the wrong tree again!!! -
It's ok, I don't need pooch to entertain me.Originally posted by citymax:i will not entertain useless reply like this. -
I take gripes with the civil service pay increment. They justify like crazy on why minsisters deserve millon-dollar salary and yet on the other hand, they go around telling companies to adopt flexible pay structure because our cost is too high & not competitive - so tell me, what is what?
They compared their pays to private sector and they claimed if they don't receive this "competitive" pay, no one will stay in public sector and all will go into private sector. But they forget, you want private sector's pay but are you prepared to meet the KPIs set out? I have no complaints if the ministers all list out their KPIs, and at the end of every year, give the public an account of what has been achieved and what has not. If they have surpassed their KPIs, good, I say they deserve their pay rise. Otherwise, ps don't talk. This is the way of life. Can I tell my boss that if he doesn't give me a pay rise, I will be corrupted? It does not take much imagination what he's going to tell me.
One good example of failed KPI, we want to make Singapore an education hub - but UNSW closed down, thats a black mark on the relevant minstries. So, what have they done?
moreover, the latest report have it that our pay ranked highest amongst all third world countries - what an irony - why isn't our costs then third world costs? What is our learned leaders doing?
Secondly, I have no gripes if the leaders of Singapore are there because they won an election through public debates and the public / constituency voted them in - be in a slender margin or landslie - I have nothing to say. However, if you hang onto the coatails of someone else to enter parlliment, I don't know what to say about the leader - I don't see his leadership and I am not even half convinced that he can lead. And I cannot change this bceause I cannot use my vote to influence the outcome.
Every single day, costs of living are higher and given that Singapore being a free economy cannot be helped but surely the government can do something - not to increase the GST?? A mere 2% is peanuts to them but to us commoners its a huge affair. The justification of having to increase the GST to help the poor is akin to robbing Peter to help Tom. Does that mean if our GST is not increased, we will lose our competiveness & investments will dwindle? Aren't we the second most competitive economy? -
But who gave their votes????Originally posted by Jontst78:So we cannot have PAP occupying more that 66% seats in parliament. Actually 40% 30% 30% would be ideal. So to amend the constitution, at 2 parties will need to be convinced. And PAP will have to streamline to keep only their very best, demand for oppostion memebers will greatly increase and picking PAP as the party to join will no longer be a "nobrainer" for aspiring politicians. Voting will then really involve serious deliberation on the part of the voter.
The majority of the citizens in Singapore.
So may i right to say only the minority are complaining on the system of the government. -
Seriously, for a stable nation, I rather have PAP as having the majority seats of more than 50%. But I would also want to see pposition of at least 45% simply become there is literally no opposition power to resist policies that the people feel it is not good for them.
I do not wish to see PAP make mistakes and then realised, "Oh, I think we made a mistake. But nevermind, we'll work on it."
The attitude is going into complecency mode for them.
As for the salary issue, I simply don't see the point of "increasing the pay so that your loyalty wouldn't go away".
What happen to the government's National Education?
Loyalty to country becomes an issue in term of monetary terms? People do politics for their people and loyalty to their nation not for money. There's a difference between giving someone a carrot and teaching them the nobility of being a farmer feeding the society.
Is it that our government don't trust their own policies anymore, in term of NE?
If they do not trust, then is it becos' of Singaporeans are too sick of the Singaporean lifestyle? How do you change this?
I don't think the goverement is looking at the bigger picture here.
I think the root of the "be a Singaporean or not" issue is the way of life we have now. Singaporean lifestyle is a super rat race, everyone is pretty sick of it. The most simple solution is migration.
We're working like servants of the rich in this world of globalisation. But why can't we make ourselves masters rather than servants?
Becos' PAP is bring us jobs, yes. We have jobs and low unemployment. But we're working like dogs. Make us masters, not servants of jobs.
I hope everyone sees my point.