All out to defame our governement
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U ask innocent questions like that and they claim that you are:Originally posted by (human):Not long after the billion dollars losses of Shin corp by Temasek they asked for a raise of 2% in GST. Not long after the decision of increasing GST they asked for a pay hike for civil servant including ministers' million dollars salaries. So anyone can tell 2% GST hike is purely meant for helping the poor or to cover losses or for ministers pay hike?
a) How do you feel if the 2% GST hike is to cover the Shin corp losses of billion dollars investment instead of really meant for helping the poor?
b) How do you feel if the 2% GST hike is for government servants and ministers pay hike instead of really meant for helping the poor?Originally posted by citymax:
All out to defame our governement (sic)
and they can actually win in the courts!
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ahhh U say "some miscommunication along the process" but I believe that they won a UN award wor...Originally posted by Rock^Star:Ah come on......pls be objective, don't be sore about our previous exchange.
Do you read ST forums? Have you noticed the style of letters that SPH publishes?
Politically sensitive issues like this, one can forget it. Letters about citizens being short changed on GST payout....why not? Check out the letter today on bureaucracy in our transport system.
Anyway, I highly doubt that that PAP would want to cheat Singaporeans in this petty manner. If they had wanted to BS us, they would have done it through a more high handed manner. Since when has this govt become stupid? Announcing GST payout and then serving it less than stated to Singaporeans. It would cause a massive, massive outroar. I believe that there has been some miscommunication along the process. -
Then its comes full circle doesn't it? Back to the point about unjust laws bing passed? Why should a peaceful, non-violent gathering of individuals be illegal?Originally posted by LinYu:but then it's illegal gathering -
IMHO, I think the best is to go through polls to decide who will be our government.
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Seriously, I think you're mixing two issues. Unless you got the proof that (a) is true. Whatever you FEEL is nothing but you're just mxing two issues.Originally posted by (human):Not long after the billion dollars losses of Shin corp by Temasek they asked for a raise of 2% in GST. Not long after the decision of increasing GST they asked for a pay hike for civil servant including ministers' million dollars salaries. So anyone can tell 2% GST hike is purely meant for helping the poor or to cover losses or for ministers pay hike?
a) How do you feel if the 2% GST hike is to cover the Shin corp losses of billion dollars investment instead of really meant for helping the poor?
b) How do you feel if the 2% GST hike is for government servants and ministers pay hike instead of really meant for helping the poor?
The Shin Corp investment incident is just a business mistake in my point of view, if you think business. Who know's the Thais would make a big fuss and then comes a coup, and in the end, hence an investment loss?
In business, anything can happen.
For (b), the same thing. You're still mixing two issues base on your feeling.
Looking at the gobla competition, the GST policy looks good to me securing the job opportunities from overseas company. And in return would help in national coffers and if the goverment does in properly to spread the wealth to the low income group, it'll be beneficial.
The only thing is the justification of keeping political talents in Singapore to give such a high pay when the pay is already so high for the electorate and the Cabinet doesn't make sense.
Going into politics is for the loyalty to the nation and the willingness to serve the people. That's the true spirit I think.
As for civil servants (excluding politicians) pay increment, I think it is justified. I doubt any Singaporean would want to be paid less than the private sector, and it would keep corruption out of our government systems in some sense. -
Do you not know that ISD was used by LKY to clamp down on communists? And then it boiled down to political opponents? So why not common citizens?Originally posted by Gazelle:Dont waste time asking this question, these people are only capable of speculating things which they dont even know if it is true in the first place and that why I am said that the blind are leading the blind in this forum.
Not too long ago, some dude here actually says that Genting Int was awared the Sentosa IR because of PM Badawi pressure our government and even claim that PM Badawi has made 2 visits to Singapore months before and after the IR annoucement...isnt this a joke or what?
What about Chia Thye Poh, Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong? How about the student blogger who was threatened legal action by A*Star chairman when he voiced dissident views? What about the the 22 year old NSF who was called up for questioning just because he participated in the Human Rights Day movement?
Can you differentiate between the "air head" and informed anti-PAP sentiments here? Why are you stereotyping all as one flock? Just because some spout rubbish doesn't mean all do so. -
Might as well ban football games in case they turn violent. I know! No National Day Parade... U can imagine how dangerous that is...Originally posted by Jontst78:Then its comes full circle doesn't it? Back to the point about unjust laws bing passed? Why should a peaceful, non-violent gathering of individuals be illegal?
All said and done:
Songbirds in Hong Kong, Jailbirds in Singapore -
Provided all the current electoral laws are abolished, rebuilt from ground up by a completely independent body, preferbly from the UN. Far fetched I konw, but you get the gist of the what Im saying right?Originally posted by laoda99:IMHO, I think the best is to go through polls to decide who will be our government.
If I and not mistaken, independent polling has also been made illegal. Again back to the point about unjust laws. -
All governments suxs!
Some of their antics are laughable.
Some, annoying.
So we post.
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I can only say. Too much freedom not good also. Destructive to stability.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Do you not know that ISD was used by LKY to clamp down on communists? And then it boiled down to political opponents? So why not common citizens?
What about Chia Thye Poh, Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong? How about the student blogger who was threatened legal action by A*Star chairman when he voiced dissident views? What about the the 22 year old NSF who was called up for questioning just because he participated in the Human Rights Day movement?
Can you differentiate between the "air head" and informed anti-PAP sentiments here? Why are you stereotyping all as one flock? Just because some spout rubbish doesn't mean all do so.
ISD is just an enforcement agency, to prevent things from happening. They are just doing what they're suppose to do.
Whether it is fair, its all up to the courts. And whether the courts are fair, its all up to the Gods. -
I am not going to talk abt the good or bad of our government... That one is endless lah...
"the battle for the next polls has already begin" hmmm... this is more interesting... I think the recent issues wont affect the next poll... This is political tatics that used in many democratic countries.
1) Anyway, PAP is known to give many harsh and unpopular policy since the day of independance.... fron national service to blah blah blah... Up to today, PAP still remain in power. Well... u can say that PAP eliminate the opponents by using despicable methods. I am not going to argue that as this is going to be endless too. But one fact is that humans able to recover and adapt to changes. After 3-4 yrs, I dont expect when people buy bread and milk, will still curse and swear GST increase, After 3-4 yrs, I dont expect when people see minister's face, willl stilll curse and swear on minister pay rise. Humans are able to let go of their small unhappiness or else mental breakdown is highly possible. As long as, PAP does short term pain to its people straight after election, it is not an issue at all. BTW, the above is not a challenge for people to remember all these till next election. But it is a fact based on many previous election.
2) Talking about reasonings in policy are really boring. It is like going for lecture in school. Unless it is yr interest in this. But however, people enjoy listening to their resentment , enjoy listening to their pain voice out, enjoy making fun of the person who cause you pain. It is a kind of pain relief and it is topic that interest every1 affected. So, it is not really a big deal at all... -
If you want to speculate, I think it is better to do it with some logic.Originally posted by (human):Not long after the billion dollars losses of Shin corp by Temasek they asked for a raise of 2% in GST. Not long after the decision of increasing GST they asked for a pay hike for civil servant including ministers' million dollars salaries. So anyone can tell 2% GST hike is purely meant for helping the poor or to cover losses or for ministers pay hike?
a) How do you feel if the 2% GST hike is to cover the Shin corp losses of billion dollars investment instead of really meant for helping the poor?
b) How do you feel if the 2% GST hike is for government servants and ministers pay hike instead of really meant for helping the poor?
Before you make those comments, I would expect that you must have the ability to ask yourself these question.
1) Do you know how much it cost the government in total to fund the recent adjustment in ministers salary?
2) Do you know who much more revenue the government will gain from the 2% GST?
3) Is Temasek running into cash flow problem that they need government to inject more funds for further acquisition? Can they not fund themselves by profiting from some of their other acquistion?
4) Has Temasek sold away Shin Corp? If not, why is there a need for Temasek to cover their losses? -
hanor hanor....Originally posted by ispyyy:... u can say that PAP eliminate the opponents by using despicable methods. -
I got a feeling you're turning into a Buddha!Originally posted by ispyyy:I am not going to talk abt the good or bad of our government... That one is endless lah...
"the battle for the next polls has already begin" hmmm... this is more interesting... I think the recent issues wont affect the next poll... This is political tatics that used in many democratic countries.
1) Anyway, PAP is known to give many harsh and unpopular policy since the day of independance.... fron national service to blah blah blah... Up to today, PAP still remain in power. Well... u can say that PAP eliminate the opponents by using despicable methods. I am not going to argue that as this is going to be endless too. But one fact is that humans able to recover and adapt to changes. After 3-4 yrs, I dont expect when people buy bread and milk, will still curse and swear GST increase, After 3-4 yrs, I dont expect when people see minister's face, willl stilll curse and swear on minister pay rise. Humans are able to let go of their small unhappiness or else mental breakdown is highly possible. As long as, PAP does short term pain to its people straight after election, it is not an issue at all. BTW, the above is not a challenge for people to remember all these till next election. But it is a fact based on many previous election.
2) Talking about reasonings in policy are really boring. It is like going for lecture in school. Unless it is yr interest in this. But however, people enjoy listening to their resentment , enjoy listening to their pain voice out, enjoy making fun of the person who cause you pain. It is a kind of pain relief and it is topic that interest every1 affected. So, it is not really a big deal at all...
So wise... -
I am all for keeping political talents and paying them their worth - but first pls prove their worth & tell us what they have done / accomplished.
the dengue fever is still raging - why? Every year, we hear the ministry urging us to get rid of stagnant water but the situation has not improved. we still hear complains about the transport system. health care costs is all time high. hospitals are overcrowded yet they market the private hospitals to foreigners as medical hub - then the locals? No affordable beds? CPF rates have not been restored although government has said economy is robust and the STI is sky high. Government tell us to work till later (which I have no objections) but you fear for your job once you reach 40 and everday, you see your workplace populated with more FTs. They encourage you to be entrepreuner but the NETs transaction fees has just gone up, you cannot sell tissue paper without being harassed for license. they aim for an education hub but UNSW just closed down and the entrance to University gets tougher for local students. Which ministry shld answer
Shin Corp investment failure- sure, its a business investment gone bad - but you realise what happened if it happened in a corporation? Its taxpayers money mind you. My money is inside, and I don't mind if they had taken this money to help the poor, at least its done on a good cause. Its akin to a private company making the wrong investment, the CEO has to answer to the shareholders. The head got to answer, someone got to be responsible and not quietly swept under the carpet and be forgotten. Suzhou Industrial Park?
No doubt, we don't the government a living but i see it as we are the shareholders, we pay taxes and we elect a government. If we have questions about its policies, I have the right to raise and question and ask for anwsers. -
UN award is for progress package.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:ahhh U say "some miscommunication along the process" but I believe that they won a UN award wor... -
Could I request you to read what the original poster is saying before replying my post.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Do you not know that ISD was used by LKY to clamp down on communists? And then it boiled down to political opponents? So why not common citizens?
What about Chia Thye Poh, Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong? How about the student blogger who was threatened legal action by A*Star chairman when he voiced dissident views? What about the the 22 year old NSF who was called up for questioning just because he participated in the Human Rights Day movement?
Can you differentiate between the "air head" and informed anti-PAP sentiments here? Why are you stereotyping all as one flock? Just because some spout rubbish doesn't mean all do so.
He/She is saying that if you vote for opposition ISD will come knocking at your doors. -
I was encouraging you to write in, didn't expect you to take my posts so personally.Originally posted by rane:Of course I don't think they will publish. That is what Rock STar told me to (write to STs) when I post with the good motive of telling people to check if they are underpaid for th GST offset package. Rock STar has been unhappy about whining and ask to write to STs. Don't know how "smart" is he to come out with suggestion like that. He is a real pain.
And I don't see him Rock Star telling TS to write to STs and don't whine here.
Pls read my reply to you on page 3 (11:39am) -
1) ERP enough to cover loh, I think.Originally posted by Gazelle:If you want to speculate, I think it is better to do it with some logic.
Before you make those comments, I would expect that you must have the ability to ask yourself these question.
1) Do you know how much it cost the government in total to fund the recent adjustment in ministers salary?
2) Do you know who much more revenue the government will gain from the 2% GST?
3) Is Temasek running into cash flow problem that they need government to inject more funds for further acquisition? Can they not fund themselves by profiting from some of their other acquistion?
4) Has Temasek sold away Shin Corp? If not, why is there a need for Temasek to cover their losses?
2) Govenrment and the company are still two spearate entities. Cannot mix accounts. Illegal.
3) Not so sure. They can do whatever they like as in business. As long as they don't make losses the next time. But they should be made responsible to some authority and the authority should report to the people.
4) Not sure, of course need to cover losses. Money leh! -
CLAP CLAP!Originally posted by red_amoeba:I am all for keeping political talents and paying them their worth - but first pls prove their worth & tell us what they have done / accomplished.
the dengue fever is still raging - why? Every year, we hear the ministry urging us to get rid of stagnant water but the situation has not improved. we still hear complains about the transport system. health care costs is all time high. hospitals are overcrowded yet they market the private hospitals to foreigners as medical hub - then the locals? No affordable beds? CPF rates have not been restored although government has said economy is robust and the STI is sky high. Government tell us to work till later (which I have no objections) but you fear for your job once you reach 40 and everday, you see your workplace populated with more FTs. They encourage you to be entrepreuner but the NETs transaction fees has just gone up, you cannot sell tissue paper without being harassed for license. they aim for an education hub but UNSW just closed down and the entrance to University gets tougher for local students. Which ministry shld answer
Shin Corp investment failure- sure, its a business investment gone bad - but you realise what happened if it happened in a corporation? Its taxpayers money mind you. My money is inside, and I don't mind if they had taken this money to help the poor, at least its done on a good cause. Its akin to a private company making the wrong investment, the CEO has to answer to the shareholders. The head got to answer, someone got to be responsible and not quietly swept under the carpet and be forgotten. Suzhou Industrial Park?
No doubt, we don't the government a living but i see it as we are the shareholders, we pay taxes and we elect a government. If we have questions about its policies, I have the right to raise and question and ask for anwsers.
NICE ONE! AGREED. -
ohhh IC... so I guess no awards for GST offset then...Originally posted by Rock^Star:UN award is for progress package. -
hey... they are answerable to the Minister of Finance but reporting to the people, probably the people are too stupid to understand that this is business and there are risks in doing business and that these losses are really peanutsOriginally posted by Eiizumi:1) ERP enough to cover loh, I think.
2) Govenrment and the company are still two spearate entities. Cannot mix accounts. Illegal.
3) Not so sure. They can do whatever they like as in business. As long as they don't make losses the next time. But they should be made responsible to some authority and the authority should report to the people.
4) Not sure, of course need to cover losses. Money leh! -
Cannot disagree with what you said.Originally posted by red_amoeba:I am all for keeping political talents and paying them their worth - but first pls prove their worth & tell us what they have done / accomplished.
the dengue fever is still raging - why? Every year, we hear the ministry urging us to get rid of stagnant water but the situation has not improved. we still hear complains about the transport system. health care costs is all time high. hospitals are overcrowded yet they market the private hospitals to foreigners as medical hub - then the locals? No affordable beds? CPF rates have not been restored although government has said economy is robust and the STI is sky high. Government tell us to work till later (which I have no objections) but you fear for your job once you reach 40 and everday, you see your workplace populated with more FTs. They encourage you to be entrepreuner but the NETs transaction fees has just gone up, you cannot sell tissue paper without being harassed for license. they aim for an education hub but UNSW just closed down and the entrance to University gets tougher for local students. Which ministry shld answer
Shin Corp investment failure- sure, its a business investment gone bad - but you realise what happened if it happened in a corporation? Its taxpayers money mind you. My money is inside, and I don't mind if they had taken this money to help the poor, at least its done on a good cause. Its akin to a private company making the wrong investment, the CEO has to answer to the shareholders. The head got to answer, someone got to be responsible and not quietly swept under the carpet and be forgotten. Suzhou Industrial Park?
No doubt, we don't the government a living but i see it as we are the shareholders, we pay taxes and we elect a government. If we have questions about its policies, I have the right to raise and question and ask for anwsers.
The hard part is how to make any government accoutable? When the ruling party in question, makes all the laws, appoints all the judges(directly or indirectly), owns the police force, and immediate famliy members hold top positions in the GLCs? -
Why can't they be linked? They all came from same source "The national treasury".Originally posted by Eiizumi:Seriously, I think you're mixing two issues. Unless you got the proof that (a) is true. Whatever you FEEL is nothing but you're just mxing two issues.
The Shin Corp investment incident is just a business mistake in my point of view, if you think business. Who know's the Thais would make a big fuss and then comes a coup, and in the end, hence an investment loss?
In business, anything can happen.
For (b), the same thing. You're still mixing two issues base on your feeling.
Looking at the gobla competition, the GST policy looks good to me securing the job opportunities from overseas company. And in return would help in national coffers and if the goverment does in properly to spread the wealth to the low income group, it'll be beneficial.
The only thing is the justification of keeping political talents in Singapore to give such a high pay when the pay is already so high for the electorate and the Cabinet doesn't make sense.
Going into politics is for the loyalty to the nation and the willingness to serve the people. That's the true spirit I think.
When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself public property. -Thomas jeffersonOriginally posted by Eiizumi:As for civil servants (excluding politicians) pay increment, I think it is justified. I doubt any Singaporean would want to be paid less than the private sector, and it would keep corruption out of our government systems in some sense.
As for politicians (excluding other civil servants) , should they compare thier pay to private sector or political rate in the world? -
I said: 66.6% votes...do you know how PAP has won elections hands down in the past 40 years? By using the ISD to create a climate of fear. If one votes for the opposition, beware of ISD agents knocking on one's door. That was the past but the climate of fear has continued its legacy till today.Originally posted by Gazelle:Could I request you to read what the original poster is saying before replying my post.
He/She is saying that if you vote for opposition ISD will come knocking at your doors.
Citymax questions: may i noe how true is the ISD knocking doors on people that vote for opposition parties?
I replied: It may not be true but fact is there's this fear. How did it come about? Perhaps you should read up more on Singapore's political history, right from the 50s.
You mentioned: Dont waste time asking this question, these people are only capable of speculating things which they dont even know if it is true in the first place and that why I am said that the blind are leading the blind in this forum.
And then I replied you: Do you not know that ISD was used by LKY to clamp down on communists? And then it boiled down to political opponents? So why not common citizens?
What about Chia Thye Poh, Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong? How about the student blogger who was threatened legal action by A*Star chairman when he voiced dissident views? What about the the 22 year old NSF who was called up for questioning just because he participated in the Human Rights Day movement?
Can you differentiate between the "air head" and informed anti-PAP sentiments here? Why are you stereotyping all as one flock? Just because some spout rubbish doesn't mean all do so
Perhaps you would like to read properly first before replying me.