All out to defame our governement
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I find that, I do not understand a single thing you just posted...Originally posted by january:The first thing people do is to complain government decision. They only think of their perspective and dun try to ask why the government do things in a certain ways.
with such biasness, people will of course find that government is cheating our money away all the time.
Middle class finds that minister pays are unfiarly higher than theirs and complain. If that is a problem, then go and become a minister yourself so that you will not have low pay.
If you fail to be a minister , then that is your situation. why are you complaining that your pay is low?
if you think minister pay is good, why do you be a engineer, a cleaner or employee.
There are also rich directors, entrepreneurs, footballers and hawker sellers. there are so many rich people of different careers, why dun you try to become one of them instead of complaining that minister are cheating own money again.
the point about complainers is that they dun take accountability of their own actions. they just shift 80% of blame to others except themselves. -
do u think pple have the choice for choosing the job they want?Originally posted by january:If you fail to be a minister , then that is your situation. why are you complaining that your pay is low?
if you think minister pay is good, why do you be a engineer, a cleaner or employee.
There are also rich directors, entrepreneurs, footballers and hawker sellers. there are so many rich people of different careers, why dun you try to become one of them instead of complaining that minister are cheating own money again.
keep in mind dat most of the ministers r elites n born wif a silver-spoon. n hence they can achieve what they want n climbing on top.
naturally pple complain so that the ministers can perform better n take care of the welfare of sg. -
People pattern is always like. they are not rich, then they still want to go restaurants, buy clothes, buy car.
if you know you are not rich, then dun spend on wants, just spend on your needs, then you will have enough savings.
but people wont be like this. they will just enjoy life until when things go wrong, they dun like back on how much they have spend on wants inthe past.
they just complain about prices and then the government. -
No need to be so humble... but stay humble OK, when you get elected...Originally posted by Rock^Star:You echo a philosophical point of view. Going by theory, I do not disagree.
However, how much do you really understand about what the govt has achieved or not achieved?
First and foremost, please comprehend that there is a hierachy to fill in every society. Not everyone can climb the ladder and make it good. Take a toilet cleaner for example. Is the reason why she's just a cleaner because she does not work hard enough? Is a mechanic still a mechanic after 20 years because he has poor work ethics? Given the huge supply of poly and uni grads year after year, is a diploma holder still earning less than $2000/mth after years of working, a bum? Likewise, a degree holder earning les than $3000/mth after years of working, a sloth?
These people do not ask for a crutch from the govt. Not everyone can make it good, that is why we need good governance to make life as smooth as possible.
And what gave you the impression that only middle class citizens complain about the governance? Your 'take it as it comes (whatever policies from the govt)' mentality....that in itself, is a form of myopia and like you call it: 'narrow-mindedness'. -
More like he totally missed or chose to ignore my point.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I find that, I do not understand a single thing you just posted...
Every society has a hierachy to fill and not everyone can make it good. If everyone can become as they desire, then there shall only be MDs and GMs around, no coffesshop assistants or even cleaners to speak of. -
but people's complaint are always not useful to solve real problems and is mainly about their own problems only.Originally posted by 798:do u think pple have the choice for choosing the job they want?
keep in mind dat most of the ministers r elites n born wif a silver-spoon. n hence they can achieve what they want n climbing on top.
naturally pple complain so that the ministers can perform better n take care of the welfare of sg.
If you are not rich, then dun spend on so much wants then. If you want to be richer, invest time in educating yourself. watch less tv.
if you dun want to invest yourself , then dun expect yourself to be richer. and save more money. -
so if you are a coffee shop assistant and you complain of your low wage, then dun be coffee shop assistant.Originally posted by Rock^Star:More like he totally missed or chose to ignore my point.
Every society has a hierachy to fill and not everyone can make it good. If everyone can become as they desire, then there shall only be MDs and GMs around, no coffesshop assistants or even cleaners to speak of. -
but if they raise GST to finance their SHIN CORP losses and pay themselves more millions on top of millions.... of course we have to complain.Originally posted by january:so if you are a coffee shop assistant and you complain of your low wage, then dun be coffee shop assistant.
Otherwise TT Durai will be Singapore's hero.
What you are saying is... don't complain about TT Durai, be like TT DUrai ... -
Missed the point I'm trying to convey once again.Originally posted by january:so if you are a coffee shop assistant and you complain of your low wage, then dun be coffee shop assistant.
Let me repeat: "Every society has a hierachy to fill".
I'm not asking you to agree with my statement but just to understand the concept. -
You've failed to look at other causes.Originally posted by january:so if you are a coffee shop assistant and you complain of your low wage, then dun be coffee shop assistant. -
Like PAP, they see things in rose tinted glasses.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:You've failed to look at other causes.
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Yes they did good in the past , but the recent comments - like "need to spend more time to fix opposition" and unreasonable pay increase , why they increase by over 30+% when most people are not even getting any.Originally posted by citymax:Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties.
Sheeps, cows, pigs and chickens also given very good live by farmers !!! Yep they treat well and properly care for - like what you say they did good what ...
Yep till the day they are brought to the slaughter house !!! Does the end justify all the good in the past ? -
Originally posted by january:so if you are a coffee shop assistant and you complain of your low wage, then dun be coffee shop assistant.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:You've failed to look at other causes.
agree...Originally posted by charlize:Like PAP, they see things in rose tinted glasses. -
wa... 7 pages liao...
*eating pop corn* -
Well its generally true that most of the people that complain are middle class. Isn't that its because its the majority of population? As of the year 2000, 60% of households with at least one income earner earn 4k and below per month. Yep, thats majority in my books. And we know that a large majority of those households have two or more income earners.Originally posted by january:i personally think that many middle workers attitude is to complain against government policies.
i think its a kind of due to narrow mindedness.
i for one come from middle income family, a little poor in fact, and i am going to be a get a salaried job, nowhere near rich .
however, i do not focus on things are getting costlier and therefore government is cheating our money again attitude.its due to the degree of initial preconception towards the government.
I take self accountability to get rich and dun like to waste my time complaining policies. It always seems that it is human nature to think that government is doing the wrong thing again instead of also taking account of government progress.
government makes mistakes too. Which government does not. It is common fo citizens to jump onto mistakes and start creating a scene again.
I think this complaining and think that government has corked up again attitude is not going to changed in people's talking or in the internet.
in the end, people blame others because its convininet and you do not have to doubt your self worth becaues you are in the right and others is wrong. It is this reason that you see a lot of people blaming the goverment.
Government is indeed the most popular word to point finger to in any soicety.
i feel sorry for the word.
We have one of the lower tax rates for high income earners amongst 1st world nations. Of course the higher up are not complaining.
The civil service pay hike is not a fundemental reason that people are not for the ruling party. I reckon, its like the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, for those that recently switched sides. For those who were already opposing the ruling party way before the recent events, have a mayrid of other reasons.
Most of it being unjust laws. Also most noteably, the PAP sledgehammer with "ISD" engraved on one side and "libel" engraved on the other. Mistakes are one thing, the sledgehammer is a choice. I will concede that there are some capable ministers, but the PAP with total control over the constitution, thus passing unjust laws are a whole other matter altogether. Its no longer just about blaming the Govt for "failing" but making the govt reform.
Edit :
Phillip Jeyaretnam is hardly middle class btw... -
of course there are capable ministers and there are non-capable ones. first and foremost, how many ministers are ministers without standing for an election? The first step to convince me that he has ministerial qualities is first, he must stand for election, one v one and win. Then show me what you can do.
Another point i want to ask the government - why do you have so many minister in prime minister office? What exactly are they doing? And what have they delivered? you have health, defense, transport, communication, trade, foreign affairs - why do you have a handful of minister in PMO? I thought the only minister in PMO shld be the PM? -
I seriously cannot understand why the argument has shifted to people being unhappy about their wages.
Why should this be the topic on hand?
Why are we not concentrating on the fact that the government has chosen to put themselves first ahead of the people? Why did they think of their own personal welfare ahead of the people, the very people that they are suppose to serve? Have the people of Singapore not express our disappointment at the government's decision?
Are all those Singaporeans that were unhappy with the government's decision all out to defame our government?
Is speaking our minds, giving our opinions about the government defaming them? Then in this case there is no need for elections and oppositions anymore. Let PAP do whatever they want... whenever they want.
In life, we always question the actions of others. If the government cannot face criticism and queries, let alone answer them, I seriously doubt that the general public would be appeased. -
if the gahmen gives a logical explaination to their policies and decisions , there wouldn't be so much of a complaint , would it? but then again, when people start complaining, the gahmen say sporeans whine too much, and should tackle the problems themselves...duh..
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GST is to help the poor.Originally posted by 4getmenot:if the gahmen gives a logical explaination to their policies and decisions , there wouldn't be so much of a complaint , would it? but then again, when people start complaining, the gahmen say sporeans whine too much, and should tackle the problems themselves...duh.. -
Yes this is a major problem. For Singaporeans, they are angry with the government because they fail to give a satisfactory explanation for the salary increase.Originally posted by 4getmenot:if the gahmen gives a logical explaination to their policies and decisions , there wouldn't be so much of a complaint , would it? but then again, when people start complaining, the gahmen say sporeans whine too much, and should tackle the problems themselves...duh..
Infact the government always sings the same chorus over and over again.
When times are good, they say must prepare for the bad times.
When times are bad, they say must help the economy.
Times are always bad for the people, but they still got the cheek to increase their own salary... not 1% , not 5% but... >20%. -
If they have nothing to hide like they claim then why can't they be transparent? If they are transparent why should anyone question and complain?Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Yes this is a major problem. For Singaporeans, they are angry with the government because they fail to give a satisfactory explanation for the salary increase.
Infact the government always sings the same chorus over and over again.
When times are good, they say must prepare for the bad times.
When times are bad, they say must help the economy.
Times are always bad for the people, but they still got the cheek to increase their own salary... not 1% , not 5% but... >20%. -
I am all for tackling the problem ourselves but what they are doing is not allowing us to tackle the problem, its heaping onto our problems and seeing how we can cope. You increase minster's pay, you tell the people, sorry you have to accept this. you increase GST, you tell people, sorry again, you have to face it, its for your good, we need to help the poor. Then my question is: why don't you take the ministers' pay to help the poor?Originally posted by 4getmenot:if the gahmen gives a logical explaination to their policies and decisions , there wouldn't be so much of a complaint , would it? but then again, when people start complaining, the gahmen say sporeans whine too much, and should tackle the problems themselves...duh..
The reason why many of us are resentful is because the perception that we are being neglected and facing increasing dfficult playing field. this is not created by forces of the market, if so, I take it on my chin. this is caused by policies. -
wah lao, we are getting better and better answers...Originally posted by red_amoeba:I am all for tackling the problem ourselves but what they are doing is not allowing us to tackle the problem, its heaping onto our problems and seeing how we can cope. You increase minster's pay, you tell the people, sorry you have to accept this. you increase GST, you tell people, sorry again, you have to face it, its for your good, we need to help the poor. Then my question is: why don't you take the ministers' pay to help the poor?
The reason why many of us are resentful is because the perception that we are being neglected and facing increasing dfficult playing field. this is not created by forces of the market, if so, I take it on my chin. this is caused by policies.
Looks like instead of what the Title suggests... it is the gahman and their supporters that is defaming us, those that ask them hard questions and they cannot answer. -
Sorry, i need a lesson to understand how increasing GST by 2% will help the poor. u mean we are so poor and bankrupt that we need to tax the people to help the poor?Originally posted by charlize:GST is to help the poor.
By increasing GST, if everyone decides to stop spending, isn't it more detrimental to the economy? First and foremost, increase in GST simply means - things are more costly for everyone and given this is the case, i will cut down / stop spending altogether. so how is it gonna help? Why do they have to go the round circle of increase GST and slap on GST credits?
Not to be nicky picky, the GST credits are not enough to offset the increase in costs that we are going to face. Then why do that in the first place.
You need extra incomce, why don't you increase duties on tobacco or gaming tax since Singapore Pools is one company that makes big profits? You want money, you should put your million dollar salary into good use by thinking how we can export more. -
how do u differentiate between gahman supporters and anti gahman supporters???Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:wah lao, we are getting better and better answers...
Looks like instead of what the Title suggests... it is the gahman and their supporters that is defaming us, those that ask them hard questions and they cannot answer.
I only see individual's views in these forum...