All out to defame our governement
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You gotta read this. We questioned, and our government is so confident. And yes, I have to agree on their confidence part.Originally posted by red_amoeba:Sorry, i need a lesson to understand how increasing GST by 2% will help the poor. u mean we are so poor and bankrupt that we need to tax the people to help the poor?
By increasing GST, if everyone decides to stop spending, isn't it more detrimental to the economy? First and foremost, increase in GST simply means - things are more costly for everyone and given this is the case, i will cut down / stop spending altogether. so how is it gonna help? Why do they have to go the round circle of increase GST and slap on GST credits?
Not to be nicky picky, the GST credits are not enough to offset the increase in costs that we are going to face. Then why do that in the first place.
You need extra incomce, why don't you increase duties on tobacco or gaming tax since Singapore Pools is one company that makes big profits? You want money, you should put your million dollar salary into good use by thinking how we can export more.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=256352
I didn't bother to summarize, so it's going to be some lengthy reads. -
It's through these individual voices that we get a better feel of the general consensus on the ground. Are we only going to listen to those who are involved in political parties?Originally posted by ispyyy:how do u differentiate between gahman supporters and anti gahman supporters???
I only see individual's views in these forum...
OR
Are we going to listen to the voices of Singaporeans? -
I cut & paste:
apologies to ndmmxiaomayi for doing that but its for ease of writing.
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And our dear minister's answer:
Reduced taxes doesn't mean increased revenues. Rather, it means a reduction in budget. Take for example corporate taxes. From 35% to 30%, it's a 5% drop, which is a lot, considering that corporations do earn a decent amount.
Now, how does the GST impact? Consider a worker earning $5000. The GST increase probably only reduced his monthly savings. At the most, his spendings will eat into his savings.
Now look at a worker who earns $1000. Already, he doesn't have much savings, he has to tighten his budget and spend within the $1000 he earns. With GST help package, it actually gives $300 to $400 to his monthly spendings. (I'm very confused on this part, don't ask me)
From the above two paragraphs, it seems like the government has made a very bad assumption, it assumes that citizens will still spend as usual.
Then she answered on the GST increase. Why isn't there a system like luxury tax, necessities tax, etc?
Her argument is because it blurs the lines. What defines a luxurious good? What defines a necessity? What defines this? What defines that?
Generally, while one would agree that names like Gucci, Prada are luxurious goods, how about goods like Nokia, Samsung? They are so common. Should they be classified as luxury goods? Or just normal goods? Another common sense answer is what is luxurious to you may not be luxurious to another.
So the government decided to apply the increase across the board.
She gave examples on Ireland and England.
Next question is about the top civil servants' salaries increase.
This answer is damn zai. I like. Again, it relates to globalization. And the yada yada reasons, so they benchmark themselves against the private sector and gave themselves the increase.
Also reminded the crowd that during bad economical period, they had taken a pay decrease, with no changes within the past 6 years. So this year's increase sort of justified it.
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I am not sure if any of the government ppl is reading this forum but I am sure they do.
Firstly I don't understand the logic: a worker earning S$1,000 will have $300 to $400 to his spending? The GsT offset package gives a yearly S$300 - S$400 ? That spells out to $33 per month. Is the government saying that with increment of GST by 2%, an average chap earning S$1000 a month is facing only an increment of spending of S$33 & this is aptly covered by GST offset package?
Has the government factor in the cost increae for staples, neccessities, utilities ? Its a domino effect, you increase GST, all other items will see an increase due to GST. You telephone, internet, water, electricity bills all will see an increase of 2%. Your groceries, medical bills will also see an increae of 2%. Unlike merchants who can claim back the GST, we as consumer cannot. Notice I have kept the examples to the essentials - I don't include travel or luxury goods because as a poor man, you are not supposed to have them.
I think the issue of luxury good tax is simple - we cannot levy luxury tax not because we cannot define them - simply because we cannot offend the luxury companies, imagine your Chanel, Christian Dior, your LV all decided to get out of the country, we are screwed. Moreover, we build on being a shopping paradise for luxury goods, the PRs won't spend, the tais tais won't spend here. to levy luxury goods tax is akin to driving the rich and FTs overseas to make the purchase. Now the tourists are not affected because they can claim back the tax but not local.
I think the question still remains - if the objective is to help the poor - is raising the GST the only means? Its akin to robbing Peter to help Paul. -
exactly right... we point out the gahman's shortcomings is called "defame our governement" to TSOriginally posted by ispyyy:how do u differentiate between gahman supporters and anti gahman supporters???
I only see individual's views in these forum...
so can we conclude that he is an idiot, after 8 pages of postings to show that we are not out to "defame our governement"? -
citymax,
Don't think you should worry yourself over forummers defaming the gahmen. Don't you know that our gahmen are very good at suing people for defamation? i some how suspect they welcome people to defame them for then they can sue and win lots of money. -
idiot or a die hard Gahman supporter who just cant stand anyone being critical to the Gahman ...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:exactly right... we point out the gahman's shortcomings is called "defame our governement" to TS
so can we conclude that he is an idiot, after 8 pages of postings to show that we are not out to "defame our governement"? -
I think naive would be a better description. But of course he can also call us that.Originally posted by passerbyJIA:idiot or a die hard Gahman supporter who just cant stand anyone being critical to the Gahman ...
Everyone sees things from a different perspective... -
Originally posted by passerbyJIA:idiot or a die hard Gahman supporter who just cant stand anyone being critical to the Gahman ...
or maybe thoroughly "propaganded " if there is such a word....Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:I think naive would be a better description.
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the word is "propagated" not "propaganded".Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:or maybe thoroughly "propaganded " if there is such a word....
Btw, there isn't a country in this world where every citizen is happy with their government. No government is perfect and therefore there is nothing wrong with being unhappy. If everyone is happy with their government this would lead to corruption as the government wouldn't improve on itself and wouldn't fear the people. -
So... When is out next election? I can't wait to see how much votes PAP gets.
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understoooded...Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:the word is "propagated" not "propaganded".
Btw, there isn't a country in this world where every citizen is happy with their government. No government is perfect and therefore there is nothing wrong with being unhappy. If everyone is happy with their government this would lead to corruption as the government wouldn't improve on itself and wouldn't fear the people. -
all the opposition kenna like CSJ... what can you expect?Originally posted by furb:So... When is out next election? I can't wait to see how much votes PAP gets.
No free press to explain and debate their vision... it looks to the common folks that only one dishonorable self-serving dictatorship has any vision -
Originally posted by hloc:
Well, like you said, you are entitled to your "right of your own view", am I entitled to my own views too? Or is this an entitlement for supporters only? You are entitled to your own opinion blah blah blah, similarly I am entitled to the view that you are deluded and wrong.
And thats what so wrong here...... if like you said I have a Right to My OWN VIEW..... what makes you think that the view is [b]deluded
Whats make you think my views need to be 'corrected' by you or anyone else
Do remember that in this part of the forum, defending my view is pointless because it would only invite a joined ATTACK for the Anti-Govt gangs. With endless 'Name Calling'.....
If it is true that you support 'Free Speech' in the forum.... then u have to accept both VIEWS thats AGREE or DISAGREE with U. Name Calling & belittleing others just shows that U don't support 'Free Speech' like you've claim to be.[/b] -
Did I specifically relate that statement to you? How come you are so guilty conscious?Originally posted by citymax:i will not entertain useless reply like this. -
What Andrew meant was that the TS must have been thoroughly brainwashed by the media.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:the word is "propagated" not "propaganded".
Propagated, the word itself has an entirely different meaning. -
Are pooches capable of providing logical answers? They only know how to regurgitate propaganda from our controlled press. When they lose the argument, they try to bring you to another topic where they think they have an advantage, but when you beat them in that argument they hop mountain again.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:wah lao, we are getting better and better answers...
Looks like instead of what the Title suggests... it is the gahman and their supporters that is defaming us, those that ask them hard questions and they cannot answer.
Seriously, pooches are not capable of their own free thought and views. -
Think they should get a poll of the entire population of Singapore. How many percentage supports the government's policy? Is it more than 50%?Originally posted by laoda99:IMHO, I think the best is to go through polls to decide who will be our government. -
They shouldOriginally posted by maurizio13:Think they should get a poll of the entire population of Singapore. How many percentage supports the government's policy? Is it more than 50%? but sadly they won't . -
He/she may be a bit naive but i think bigot may describe him/her better since he/she is unwilling to accept other opinions or even facts.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:I think naive would be a better description. But of course he can also call us that.
Everyone sees things from a different perspective... -
Shin Corp is a big mistake, apart from Suzhou Industrial Project, Global Crossing and the current Indosat & Telkomsel. If you have a company constantly making wrong major investment decisions, there must be seriously something wrong with your company. Moreover the CEO isn't independently hired for the position based on her abilities, it's based on relationships, much like the politics of China.Originally posted by Eiizumi:Seriously, I think you're mixing two issues. Unless you got the proof that (a) is true. Whatever you FEEL is nothing but you're just mxing two issues.
The Shin Corp investment incident is just a business mistake in my point of view, if you think business. Who know's the Thais would make a big fuss and then comes a coup, and in the end, hence an investment loss?
In business, anything can happen.
For (b), the same thing. You're still mixing two issues base on your feeling.
Looking at the gobla competition, the GST policy looks good to me securing the job opportunities from overseas company. And in return would help in national coffers and if the goverment does in properly to spread the wealth to the low income group, it'll be beneficial.
The only thing is the justification of keeping political talents in Singapore to give such a high pay when the pay is already so high for the electorate and the Cabinet doesn't make sense.
Going into politics is for the loyalty to the nation and the willingness to serve the people. That's the true spirit I think.
As for civil servants (excluding politicians) pay increment, I think it is justified. I doubt any Singaporean would want to be paid less than the private sector, and it would keep corruption out of our government systems in some sense.
In business, you would also take in the political risk and assess the returns from the investments. The last year's return from the investment was less than 6% (can't be sure as I didn't check, but I remembered it's around that figure), so their investment decision confound me.
Thailand is a country throughout it's 20th century politics, riddled with coups. Does it not make sense that a coup will inevitably happen in the future.
How does GST help in securing job opportunities from overseas company? Can you please elaborate?
Spreading the wealth to low income group? In the past low income groups don't pay income tax, high income group pay income tax. After they impose GST, low income group still don't pay income tax, but they end up paying GST of 5%; whereas the high income group (which used to pay 33% top income bracket), gets income tax reduce to 20% (a reduction of 13%), while paying an increase of 5% GST.
There is no private market for political appointments, the job scope is different from other positions in the private market. We would like that their pay remain competitive that they attract capable people to do the job. But their pay scale is astronomical by global standards. Why would you want to attract Bill Gates to do the job when the job can be done by a comparable university graduate? Either ways, the job gets done.
Running a large business corporation is different from running a government. In a corporation, you would need to be a visionary, contend with market conditions and manage the company.
Running a country is to maintain a basic standard of living conditions for it's populace and maintain law & order.
You don't need a rocket scientist to do the job of an office administrator! -
Its actually quite true probably ... from a different viewpoint ...Originally posted by charlize:GST is to help the poor.
The truth is in the word 'poor' ... or how one defines it ... from the perspective of the originator ...
GST is to help the 'poor' government ... public servants ... officials ...
arguably true ... -
In the future, we will end up with a higher population of FTs, little citizens. They might have to close down alot of military bases then. All the FTs will treat Singapore like a hotel, temporaray residences only.Originally posted by rane:Good, happy for you and family. Many who have $$$ and opportunities have gone overseas already. A neighbour who is doing research and base in US just decided that she will give up her singapore citizenship. -
Most of these fear votes are related to those older folks, they have very little knowledge, thus voted out of fear. I know of a hawker who voted for them because he fear reprisals.Originally posted by rane:hey, you are wrong. Many of those who told me they voted for the ruling party don't like the way they run the country but voted them out of fear.
As these older folks die out, their votes will decrease, that's why you see the MPs doing hip hop to curry favour from the younger generation. -
are u saying citymax is a PAP doggie??Originally posted by maurizio13:Here pooch!
Here pooch!
I have a nice yummy bone for you. -
perhaps that's why there was a point in time when they are debating whether to have two votes per citizen.Originally posted by maurizio13:Most of these fear votes are related to those older folks, they have very little knowledge, thus voted out of fear. I know of a hawker who voted for them because he fear reprisals.
As these older folks die out, their votes will decrease, that's why you see the MPs doing hip hop to curry favour from the younger generation.
its only natural that each party try to garner as many votes as possible. its very true that some of the most staunch supporter of the government are those who have been through the turbulent times with the first /second generation nation-leaders.