Why People Leave SG
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It shows that they have eyes and brains, and have also been reading up in forums here and elsewhere about the perils of living in Singapore...Originally posted by will4:If u read the paper, only 8500 PR became citizen out 50000 PR for the past ten years.
What do it show u?
They know also, that once they grow old, they'd be as useless as and old PC... -
Look in this manner, PR n local almost have equal benefit CPF contribution, subsidized medical excet in October but still cheaer than foreignersOriginally posted by ShutterBug:It shows that they have eyes and brains, and have also been reading up in forums here and elsewhere about the perils of living in Singapore...
They know also, that once they grow old, they'd be as useless as and old PC...
using here as a launching pad to work in other countries, cheaper school fees their chidren except in October but still cheaper than foreigners.
Once reached age 55, bring CPF money retired there. -
However, our all-knowing-government does not see this...Originally posted by will4:Look in this manner, PR n local almost have equal benefit CPF contribution, subsidized medical excet in October but still cheaer than foreigners
using here as a launching pad to work in other countries, cheaper school fees their chidren except in October but still cheaper than foreigners.
Once reached age 55, bring CPF money retired there.
I think they'd have to take about 10 years for them to realize this before making another U-turn in their bright-idea policies...
I doubt at the rate they are earning Hate Points from the people they'd remain elected for long.... -
Showering "love bonus" to the people before elections?Originally posted by ShutterBug:However, our all-knowing-government does not see this...
I think they'd have to take about 10 years for them to realize this before making another U-turn in their bright-idea policies...
I doubt at the rate they are earning Hate Points from the people they'd remain elected for long....
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It's not going to work anymore....Originally posted by mistyblue:Showering "love bonus" to the people before elections?
Lemme tell you; you can trick a real retarded person quite a few times, but even a retard will wise up and call your bluff after a few trickeries...
Only Dead People continues to be tricked... -
I talked to some pro-govt people n they have the tendency to make here look good as compared to neighboring countries.Originally posted by ShutterBug:It's not going to work anymore....
Lemme tell you; you can trick a real retarded person quite a few times, but even a retard will wise up and call your bluff after a few trickeries...
Only Dead People continues to be tricked... -
They at least made local hapy by not giving GST credit to PR.Originally posted by ShutterBug:However, our all-knowing-government does not see this...
I think they'd have to take about 10 years for them to realize this before making another U-turn in their bright-idea policies...
I doubt at the rate they are earning Hate Points from the people they'd remain elected for long.... -
They happen to be civil servants??Originally posted by will4:I talked to some pro-govt people n they have the tendency to make here look good as compared to neighboring countries.
I seriously doubt many local businessmen or business operators would share similar pro-govt sentiments...
The moment you mention government to them, you will immdiately see hostility in their eyes... -
At least??Originally posted by will4:They at least made local hapy by not giving GST credit to PR.
Now, is that the peanut or the peanute shell....? -
It is a mixed but unfortunately they liked to put others down by sayingOriginally posted by ShutterBug:They happen to be civil servants??
I seriously doubt many local businessmen or business operators would share similar pro-govt sentiments...
The moment you mention government to them, you will immdiately see hostility in their eyes...
"If u not happy, u can leave n nobody forced u to stay". -
harrharrharrahhahrrraarrr...!!Originally posted by will4:It is a mixed but unfortunately they liked to put others down by saying
"If u not happy, u can leave n nobody forced u to stay".
This phrase has been over used...
I tell you, if Parents tell their sons and daughters to leave the house if they are not happy enough times during squabbles, they one day eventually will....
And what happens? What do parents raise kids for? What are citizens to governments?
The similarity is 100%... -
If you are not happy you can go.
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Originally posted by Cullen[10]:
If you are not [b]happy you can go.
[/b]
heeheeeheeeee...
I already have....!!! -
The article appears to give a lot of statistics and let the reader reach his own conclusion. However, I'm not sure whether those statistics are so relevant to the topic, as the majority of emigrants leaving Singapore most probably belong to the professional classes, whose skills make them more economically mobile.
Something else, besides the higher living expenses or lack of welfarism, must be the main push factor, for example, the pace of life, the culture or the stress level of living and working in this country, which are more difficult to discern from statistics.
Conversely, we should also look at the pull factors - what is it about other countries that make some Singaporeans prefer to become citizens over there rather than remain here. Of course these factors might be the same ones as those listed above.
In any case, it is vital for the government to look at these factors and genuinely do something about them rather than complaining, threatening or, as some forumners have put it, resorting to emotional blackmail to persuade Singaporeans to stay. -
In other words, to borrow somebody else’s analogy, our current system is looking for “wild” cats that are willing to work hard and cheap without any welfare strings attached, as opposed to the local “tame” cats that always point out to life beyond the immediate economic realities.
The weak link in all this is that, the system expects that the imported wild cats will keep all their imported habits and stay for good- in other words, keep contributing all the wild cat benefits until the day they die.
Unfortunately few wild cats actually see things this way, being wild in nature, many are shrewd enough to realize that such an arrangement is not advantageous. After all few wild cats want to keep working until the day they die in the wild cat environment. At the end of the day, most cats, wild or not still want to have a life outside the economic circle.
While Singapore is a good spot for wild cats to come and make a living, ultimately itÂ’s not the kind of place the wild cat wants to live in. ItÂ’s very factors and policies that make it attractive to the wild cats as a feeding ground are ironically, make it extremely unattractive to be a place for cats to stay.
ItÂ’s like how cats will hunt rats in the drains and sewers, but ultimately not sleep or even stay there once they have taken their fill. And is Singapore becoming such a drain or sewer?
At the same time, some of the so called tame cats realize that they don’t need to live in a place that is becoming a sewer or drain, and hence opt out of the “rat race”. Unfortunately for the system to be lucrative it requires the input of tame cats to do some things that wild cats cannot… for example, only local cats are trusted to guard and defend the territory, and in fact many of the factors that made the place so attractive to the wild cats could only be maintained by selling the “tame” local cats short. The local cats are told to put up with turning the place into a sewer to attract the wild cats, as well as expected to die and defend the place in times of trouble.
At the end of the day the local cat asks “what’s in it for me?”, and of course most of the wild cats make it a point never to let itself or its offspring become a local cat if they can help it. While some wild cats are really sincere in wanting to become a part of the local society, some others are also equally mercenary and opportunistic in their motives for coming to the place and making the most out of it. The system however doesn’t bother in distinguishing the two as long as both types of wild cats (sincere or mercenary), earn as much money for it.
Are rats our only attraction and merit to the wild cat? If so then we are in trouble. -
Of course if the person who came up with this “wild cat/tame cat” analogy bothered to read up on some basic ecology, he would realize the connotations of his analogy.
Often alien species that are introduced against which local species cannot realistically compete will devastate the local ecology and eventually destroy the local environment or even work to the determent of the ones who introduced the alien species.
If not managed properly, the current FT policies could spark a vicious destructive cycle. Our best talents socially mobile will see no need to compete with FT when they can get a better deal elsewhere and simply leave, eroding our local talent base and actually increasing our reliance on foreign talent over time as opposed to adding more skills to Singapore. The ones that cannot move out will be forced to compete in the context of the citizen with NS and other duties, the actual quality of life for the local will be reduced.
And I donÂ’t think this will help the birthrate, forcing the system to take in MORE FTs and sparking off the cycle in a worse fashion.
IÂ’m not saying this WILL happen, but I am pointing out that all things if taken to an excess will often have the opposite result from what was intended.
There is a difference between infusing new blood, adding biodiversity by adding species and infusing the wrong blood type or introducing an alien species as a instant solution for some problem.
The mosquito fish when introduced, not only failed to control the mosquito problem but ended up finishing off all the local mosquito predators, actually making the problem [I]worse[/I] in the long run.
This is not saying Singaporeans should be protected from whatever happens in the world and have NO competition. But there is a difference between training your own people to be tougher and more independent and throwing them to the wolves and picking whoever survives.
Alien species have been successfully introduced before and with good benefit. As with all things this must be done carefully, not in the fashion that goes “the mosquito fish will solve all our problems, let’s do it!” while actually taking no concrete steps to improve the local birth rate or quality of life.
And of course, the attitude which goes “let’s import wild cats to replace all the CMI local tame cats” is definitely a wrong one. It is exactly the kind of attitude that will make the question of having disinterested or dissenting locals worse and make the whole thing spiral out of control.
The proper approach would be “how can we use the wild cats to aid improve the local cats?”, and not “if you are not like a wild cat, you are not a worthy cat”. -
The mosquitofish (Gambusia affinis) is a species of freshwater fish, also commonly known simply by its generic name, gambusia, although such usage is, to say the least, ambiguous. It is sometimes called the western mosquitofish, to distinguish it from the eastern mosquitofish (G. holbrooki). In Hong Kong, it is also known as the live-bearing tooth-carp. It is a member of the family Poeciliidae of order Cyprinodontiformes.
Simply because the alien species is less demanding and easy to put up with might not mean it's a cure all for your local issues. In fact it might even make it worse.
These fish are native to the watershed of the Gulf of Mexico, where it has long been known that they feed readily on the aquatic larval and pupal stages of mosquitoes. They are remarkably hardy, surviving in waters of very low oxygen saturations, high salinities (including twice that of seawater), and high temperatures; they can even survive in waters up to 42 °C for short periods. For these reasons, this species may now be the most widespread freshwater fish in the world, having been introduced as a biocontrol to tropical and temperate countries in both hemispheres, and then spreading further both naturally and through even further introductions. The majority of these introductions were foolish; in most countries where mosquitofish have been introduced it is has been proved that the endemic fish species were already providing maximal mosquito control, and that the introduction of mosquitofish has been both unnecessary and highly damaging to endemic fish and other endemic aquatic life. In Australia G.holbrooki has caused great damage to native fish and frog species. For example it is considered responsible for the extinction of rainbowfish in sub-tropical streams around Brisbane. -
I left Singapore for Australia - have not looked back since.Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:The article appears to give a lot of statistics and let the reader reach his own conclusion. However, I'm not sure whether those statistics are so relevant to the topic, as the majority of emigrants leaving Singapore most probably belong to the professional classes, whose skills make them more economically mobile.
Something else, besides the higher living expenses or lack of welfarism, must be the main push factor, for example, the pace of life, the culture or the stress level of living and working in this country, which are more difficult to discern from statistics.
Conversely, we should also look at the pull factors - what is it about other countries that make some Singaporeans prefer to become citizens over there rather than remain here. Of course these factors might be the same ones as those listed above.
In any case, it is vital for the government to look at these factors and genuinely do something about them rather than complaining, threatening or, as some forumners have put it, resorting to emotional blackmail to persuade Singaporeans to stay.
Why? Because Singapore is way too elitist and too constricted in terms of career and hierachy for me. No doubt everywhere is the same in the worldt who you know . But in Singapore, you do not even get the chance to know the people to know because you don't belong to their class ( of being filthy rich) or you don't belong to the scholar class. They can talk down to you but you cannot answer them back.
Best of all, it is the only developed country I know that looks back into your primary school results as well for employment - imho that is stupid to let primary school scores and secondary school scores affect the career route/pathway of the person permanently. Employers in other countries actually don't give a crap about your primary and secondary school scores, they want to know your performance and result delivery.
I seen enough - I decided to leave because I am but only that of the common class. Yes I am a professional - why should I let the policies of my country restrict and dictate what I should do for the rest of my life? Why should I worry about a piddling rice bowl?
I have no issues with foreign talents if they can do better than I and stay or they ship out elsewhere. But to let them in on an excuse for global competition when it is just a matter of lowering wages for the majority and not letting capable singaporeans do the job, I do not accept that.
For me personally, I am somewhere else better - I perform and I get rewarded accordingly. I was nurtured by Australia and I am grateful for the opportunities Australia have given to me . I returned to Singapore despite further opportunities offered, to contribute but my employer was more keen on restricting my pathways - being told that one cannot take a year's study leave to study overseas because one is not a scholar - well that did Singapore in for me. I threw in the towel. I gave up on Singapore. Australia took me in again.
As for career and opportunities in an Australian organisation ( albeit whatever bullshit someone wants to give about racism), I have already been promoted 3 levels up from my starting position when I switched careers a year ago . I can tell the consultants (diplomatically) off if I know that they are mucking around wasting my employer's money producing crap outcomes/results and I did that twice with the full backing of my senior colleagues . In Singapore, my career will be assassinated if I dared to point out anything wrong going on because they are the consultants and I am not .
If I stayed in Singapore with a first class citizen title in name, I will be still struggling to keep up and worry about my job because I am no scholar and my dad is a nobody .
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Actually writing into the forum or complaining won't do us any good...priority is to improve your own lot...I therefore do ask you all to consider emigration...it has done wonders to many of us who have left....cut long story short, why do we even bother complaining when its going to be the same old story....just vote with our feet
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I know at least two Chinese born and grew up in Australia. I asked them on separate occasions, why come to Singapore? I thought Australia much better ? They told me that they find more job opportunities in Singapore than in Australia. Both did not elaborate into more details. Both came here and started to look for job opportunities. Both do well here. One even pioneered a start-up operation for a HK based company and the other as a senior private banker. You who migrated from Singapore to Australia at mid-life, my advice is dont cut your roots for your roots' sake.
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Originally posted by fymk:
Alright, MORE good reasons for me to leave this hellhole we call Singapore.
I left Singapore for Australia - have not looked back since.
Why? Because Singapore is way too elitist and too constricted in terms of career and hierachy for me. No doubt everywhere is the same in the worldt who you know . But in Singapore, you do not even get the chance to know the people to know because you don't belong to their class ( of being filthy rich) or you don't belong to the scholar class. They can talk down to you but you cannot answer them back.
Best of all, it is the only developed country I know that looks back into your primary school results as well for employment - imho that is stupid to let primary school scores and secondary school scores affect the career route/pathway of the person permanently. Employers in other countries actually don't give a crap about your primary and secondary school scores, they want to know your performance and result delivery.
I seen enough - I decided to leave because I am but only that of the common class. Yes I am a professional - why should I let the policies of my country restrict and dictate what I should do for the rest of my life? Why should I worry about a piddling rice bowl?
I have no issues with foreign talents if they can do better than I and stay or they ship out elsewhere. But to let them in on an excuse for global competition when it is just a matter of lowering wages for the majority and not letting capable singaporeans do the job, I do not accept that.
For me personally, I am somewhere else better - I perform and I get rewarded accordingly. I was nurtured by Australia and I am grateful for the opportunities Australia have given to me . I returned to Singapore despite further opportunities offered, to contribute but my employer was more keen on restricting my pathways - being told that one cannot take a year's study leave to study overseas because one is not a scholar - well that did Singapore in for me. I threw in the towel. I gave up on Singapore. Australia took me in again.
As for career and opportunities in an Australian organisation ( albeit whatever bullshit someone wants to give about racism), I have already been promoted 3 levels up from my starting position when I switched careers a year ago . I can tell the consultants (diplomatically) off if I know that they are mucking around wasting my employer's money producing crap outcomes/results and I did that twice with the full backing of my senior colleagues . In Singapore, my career will be assassinated if I dared to point out anything wrong going on [b] because they are the consultants and I am not .
If I stayed in Singapore with a first class citizen title in name, I will be still struggling to keep up and worry about my job because I am no scholar and my dad is a nobody .
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being a Singaporean and coming to Singapore as an Expat are two different things you know ....Originally posted by CannotTahan:I know at least two Chinese born and grew up in Australia. I asked them on separate occasions, why come to Singapore? I thought Australia much better ? They told me that they find more job opportunities in Singapore than in Australia. Both did not elaborate into more details. Both came here and started to look for job opportunities. Both do well here. One even pioneered a start-up operation for a HK based company and the other as a senior private banker. You who migrated from Singapore to Australia at mid-life, my advice is dont cut your roots for your roots' sake.
in most first world countries in the world ... citizens enjoy a better deal .... in most third world shit holes ... it's the other way around .......
as for singapore ...................... -
I can tell you something - expat's pay is better than a local's pay. If Singapore is prepared to offer me an expat's package or equivalent to what I am getting now - I will take it and laugh when I get the golden handshake. Unfortunately last I check , I still have a pink NRIC and that disqualifies me from being an expat in Singapore.Originally posted by CannotTahan:I know at least two Chinese born and grew up in Australia. I asked them on separate occasions, why come to Singapore? I thought Australia much better ? They told me that they find more job opportunities in Singapore than in Australia. Both did not elaborate into more details. Both came here and started to look for job opportunities. Both do well here. One even pioneered a start-up operation for a HK based company and the other as a senior private banker. You who migrated from Singapore to Australia at mid-life, my advice is dont cut your roots for your roots' sake.
Know how I know this? My friend and I thought we both apply for fun- she is no singaporean and she got a package better than mine despite the fact I am her senior colleague and my employer is prepared to promote me over her on HER homeground- 3 levels up - we are not talking uno numero . So go figure . -
WTF?!?!!!Originally posted by fymk:I can tell you something - expat's pay is better than a local's pay. If Singapore is prepared to offer me an expat's package or equivalent to what I am getting now - I will take it and laugh when I get the golden handshake. Unfortunately last I check , I still have a pink NRIC and that disqualifies me from being an expat in Singapore.
Know how I know this? My friend and I thought we both apply for fun- she is no singaporean and she got a package better than mine despite the fact I am her senior colleague and my employer is willing to promote me over her- 3 levels up - we are not talking uno numero . So go figure .
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YeahOriginally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:WTF?!?!!!
So if anyone wants to talk about australian born or american born chinese coming over to Singapore because it is so great - check their payscales . Trust me - it is far higher than what a local will get . On top of that - check their benefits - they probably get accomodation , cars and what's not.
If they are self starters (for their own business) - it is because the employment rules are more beneficial to them in Singapore ( easier to exploit) than their own countries ( where unions are). Heck if I can pay someone lower to produce something to profit myself - I would do that.