Why People Leave SG
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the logic is : many singaporeans who emigrated are of humble beginnings. from singapore, they gain enough value to choose where they want to go. if these same people were to start from some third world countries, chances are much lower. -
yes. singapore.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The most pragmatic thing is to go where the money is. -
You do realise that the Asian Financial Crisis, wasn't actually the worst thing that Singapore faced?Originally posted by CannotTahan:no. on the contrary, without this regime, singapore would have been wiped out from the map long ago during the asian financial crisis.
The worst thing that happened was the collapse of the electronics bubble because the dear Govt decided to put all the eggs in the basket despite the fact that even the Opposition called for diversification and expansion of the services sector.
Till this day, the effects of the collapse of that bubble is still felt because of the shock loss of nice manufacturing jobs now replaced with higher end manufacturing jobs because one needs a lot more skills and qualifications to handle them.
So Singapore will be wiped out from the map anyway, because of this regimes' reluctance to tolerate diversity and instead crush any dissent. -
So sure are you? If one can get a job in a western country, he will get paid more and definitely have a much nicer house, and actually own a car without having the break his piggy bank? Have you actually stepped out of the country and actually thought through this?Originally posted by CannotTahan:yes. singapore.
2nd class citizen? Does it even matter really? Is citizenship so important? It's just a piece of paper that says you come from some place. Nothing more. Some other countries in Europe treat foreigners better than Singapore anyway. -
no. asian financial crisis was worse. nasdaq bubble was a dumb western play.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:You do realise that the Asian Financial Crisis, wasn't actually the worst thing that Singapore faced?
The worst thing that happened was the collapse of the electronics bubble because the dear Govt decided to put all the eggs in the basket despite the fact that even the Opposition called for diversification and expansion of the services sector.
Till this day, the effects of the collapse of that bubble is still felt because of the shock loss of nice manufacturing jobs now replaced with higher end manufacturing jobs because one needs a lot more skills and qualifications to handle them.
So Singapore will be wiped out from the map anyway, because of this regimes' reluctance to tolerate diversity and instead crush any dissent.
singapore survived the asian financial crisis and we keep our singapore dollar in the global markets.
sorry. singapore wont be wiped out from the map anyway. -
you will be surprised. if we talk only about money and nothing else then one gets rich about 3 to 4 times faster in singapore than in western countries.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:So sure are you? If one can get a job in a western country, he will get paid more and definitely have a much nicer house, and actually own a car without having the break his piggy bank? Have you actually stepped out of the country and actually thought through this?
2nd class citizen? Does it even matter really? Is citizenship so important? It's just a piece of paper that says you come from some place. Nothing more. Some other countries in Europe treat foreigners better than Singapore anyway. -
*shakes head* The Nasdaq bubble led to companies in the US to cut back on investments and to reconsider their investments in Singapore and move the whole lot of them off to China. The net result was lots of job losses. You would like to recall that we used to be the No. 1 Hard Drive manufacturer in the world. That was how big the electronics sector used to be. Now it is hollowing out to the Pharmaceutical manufacturing sector that hasn't been very consistent with growth.Originally posted by CannotTahan:no. asian financial crisis was worse. nasdaq bubble was a dumb western play.
singapore survived the asian financial crisis and we keep our singapore dollar in the global markets.
sorry. singapore wont be wiped out from the map anyway.
The Asian Financial crisis didn't hurt us too bad because unlike our neighbours, we didn't have huge bad loans that ballooned beyond recognition. If the Govt did one good thing was to ensure tight regulation of the financial market since they were competing against HK anyway.
Do read the history behind this before barking off. Singapore as a nation is simply untenable in the long run. -
Care to provide statistics?Originally posted by CannotTahan:you will be surprised. if we talk only about money and nothing else then one gets rich about 3 to 4 faster in singapore than in western countries. -
you are correct about the hard disk drive industry. what i notice is a hollowing out of manufacturing jobs to china everywhere in the world. china is the manufacturing base for the world.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:*shakes head* The Nasdaq bubble led to companies in the US to cut back on investments and to reconsider their investments in Singapore and move the whole lot of them off to China. The net result was lots of job losses. You would like to recall that we used to be the No. 1 Hard Drive manufacturer in the world. That was how big the electronics sector used to be. Now it is hollowing out to the Pharmaceutical manufacturing sector that hasn't been very consistent with growth.
The Asian Financial crisis didn't hurt us too bad because unlike our neighbours, we didn't have huge bad loans that ballooned beyond recognition. If the Govt did one good thing was to ensure tight regulation of the financial market since they were competing against HK anyway.
Do read the history behind this before barking off. Singapore as a nation is simply untenable in the long run.
while the regional countries were fighting the hedge funds and then lost, what did monetary authority of singapore do? find out yourself
but i can tell you a bit. it was incredibly smart and filled me with lots of pride to be a singaporean. -
i only share with people i trust. sorry. but i am not bull-s..ting hor.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Care to provide statistics?
but i should rephrase
if we talk only about money and nothing else then one could get rich about 3 to 4 times faster in singapore than in western countries. -
i find it really amusing that there are people who could be so bearish about singapore.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Singapore as a nation is simply untenable in the long run. -
Hi laddie, so the term is Better, NOT easier. There is a differenceOriginally posted by CannotTahan:hi old bird, nice to talk to you again.
honestly, i believe many people emigrate out of singapore because, a) they either have enough money or highly educated or working professionals to choose, b) they believe that they are going to better their lives.
for instance, for example, if the rest of the world is like Iraq, then these people will stay put.
so emigration is not 100% a political issue. It can be one's dream since childhood etc
I may work harder somewhere else, but I get to leave work on time, and thus have time to spend on things which are more impt in life than work.
In Singapore firms, I notice the trend is to see you work OT, don't care whether you are doing your work or not, but your face must be in the office. You may not work harder than the one leaving on time, but you end up wasting too much time in the office.
And yes, I agree with you, life is pragmatic these days. If the rest of the world is like Iraq, obviously people will stay put.
But, there are many push factors in emigration, and politics is one of them. The tactics that our govt use now, smacks still of the 60s and 70s, where they insist they are right, and we should shut up. (Nowadays, they say we can raise questions, but they just avoid answering or making changes to their decisions, so what's the difference?)
The newer generations are different. With a higher education, we understand more than before that we can make changes to our lives, since we know more and we can do more. Thus, if the Govt still behaves as if it knows the best, more and more people will leave, to find a life elsewhere, where they can influence it better.
I guess ultimately, leaving may result in your life being your own. Here, its more like your life belongs to the Govt, coz they know best.
I don't find it strange that the smart people are leaving, because its PRECISELY the smart people who hate being instructed like a kid on how to live their lives. That's why Chairman Mao seeked to destroy the educated, becoz he knew that the educated were the ones that put his ideals most at risk. -
what can the government (PAP or not PAP) do about it?Originally posted by soul_rage:Hi laddie, so the term is Better, NOT easier. There is a difference
I may work harder somewhere else, but I get to leave work on time, and thus have time to spend on things which are more impt in life than work.
In Singapore firms, I notice the trend is to see you work OT, don't care whether you are doing your work or not, but your face must be in the office. You may not work harder than the one leaving on time, but you end up wasting too much time in the office. -
It is really pointless to argue about why people leave SG...
No matter HOW you beg to differ that SG is better to live in, no one can deny the following facts:
>> Land Scarce
>> Greying population with low birth rate
>> Gov's vision of 6 million population to make living even less condusive
>> Rising costs in general living, and healthcare inadequacies
>> Dubious education system
>> Ever increasing salaries of gov
>> Ever increasing GST
>> NO retirement
>> Favortism of FTs
>> Age discrimination
>> An Election System that is "fixed"
... it can go on...
Where are the BENEFITS for locals to stay on??? -
people emigrate because they dont find it worth the while to stay put and they made it happen. but i dont quite agree with you that these are necessarily smart people.Originally posted by soul_rage:Hi laddie, so the term is Better, NOT easier. There is a difference
I may work harder somewhere else, but I get to leave work on time, and thus have time to spend on things which are more impt in life than work.
In Singapore firms, I notice the trend is to see you work OT, don't care whether you are doing your work or not, but your face must be in the office. You may not work harder than the one leaving on time, but you end up wasting too much time in the office.
And yes, I agree with you, life is pragmatic these days. If the rest of the world is like Iraq, obviously people will stay put.
But, there are many push factors in emigration, and politics is one of them. The tactics that our govt use now, smacks still of the 60s and 70s, where they insist they are right, and we should shut up. (Nowadays, they say we can raise questions, but they just avoid answering or making changes to their decisions, so what's the difference?)
The newer generations are different. With a higher education, we understand more than before that we can make changes to our lives, since we know more and we can do more. Thus, if the Govt still behaves as if it knows the best, more and more people will leave, to find a life elsewhere, where they can influence it better.
I guess ultimately, leaving may result in your life being your own. Here, its more like your life belongs to the Govt, coz they know best.
I don't find it strange that the smart people are leaving, because its PRECISELY the smart people who hate being instructed like a kid on how to live their lives. That's why Chairman Mao seeked to destroy the educated, becoz he knew that the educated were the ones that put his ideals most at risk. -
since you think it is pointless, why then do you start this thread?Originally posted by ShutterBug:It is really pointless to argue about why people leave SG...
No matter HOW you beg to differ that SG is better to live in, no one can deny the following facts:
>> Land Scarce
>> Greying population with low birth rate
>> Gov's vision of 6 million population to make living even less condusive
>> Rising costs in general living, and healthcare inadequacies
>> Dubious education system
>> Ever increasing salaries of gov
>> Ever increasing GST
>> NO retirement
>> Favortism of FTs
>> Age discrimination
>> An Election System that is "fixed"
... it can go on...
Where are the BENEFITS for locals to stay on??? -
its an entire culture. We absorb the bad of the Japanese culture of doing OT.Originally posted by CannotTahan:what can the government (PAP or not PAP) do about it?
Unfortunately, the Govt chose not to tell you, that Japanese white collar workers get OT pay, and that's the motivation why they OT like nuts.
I doubt the Govt wants to change it, because like I said, its beneficial to them.
Advertisement on Singapore Workers
"Come to Singapore to open your company. We offer companies workers with the following attributes:
- Can terminate them anytime as long as you give them 1 month's notice, and don't need to give any reasons
- They are lowly paid as compared to other developed economies, yet highly productive
- They can do overtime without any overtime pay"
Judging from the above, if they seek to make life better for us, is to make life difficult for them
So my suggestions are as follows for the current outlook:
- Keep those conditions if they want (lowly paid, terminate anytime), so that they attract investments, but work on killing the culture of overtime. (In many foreign companies, the bosses actually kick you out of the office, the moment knock off time arrives). Don't make people feel guilty about leaving on time. Instead make people feel guilty about doing overtime. People should OT ONLY IF they need to, and not becoz they want to show the boss they are 'working'.
- Push the new culture of working from home. Allow people to work 4 days office, 1 day at home. Make it happen, not just talk.
- Lower the cost of living. I feel our costs of living is exceedingly high, and with lower costs of living -> lower demands of pay. -
My thread says "Why people leave SG."Originally posted by CannotTahan:since you think it is pointless, why then do you start this thread?
And not "Why people leave SG?"
It highlights fats and figures WHY people do so.
And not WHY they shouldn't do so... -
The sharp rise in property prices will make it only worse and more people will migrate....
see: A fast rate of increase in property prices is the one item that does the most damage to the majority of Singaporeans. Property price increases benefit mainly the following groups. Those that want to migrate. Those who want to cash in on the price increases by selling their extra properties.
Those who invest (gamble) in property prices hoping to hit the jackpot. Foreigners.
The rest suffers. Everybody else suffers. The increase in property prices will cause a rise in rental rates and mortgage rates and mortgage amounts; among numerous other things. Click to link -
urm... nope, I din mean the above.Originally posted by CannotTahan:people emigrate because they dont find it worth the while to stay put and they made it happen. but i dont quite agree with you that these are necessarily smart people.
I did not say the following
'ALL Singaporeans who emigrate are smart people"
I meant I don't find it strange that the smart brains are emigrating (which is a subset of All who emigrate)
The smart brains can go overseas and earn expat pay, so there are many pull factors for that. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Precisely the issue; the economy here is TUNED for the elites and wealthy, and makes for the gov. While the middle and low gets milked dry and out of the race.
The sharp rise in property prices will make it only worse and more people will migrate....
see: A fast rate of increase in property prices is the one item that does the most damage to the majority of Singaporeans. Property price increases benefit mainly the following groups. [b]Those that want to migrate. Those who want to cash in on the price increases by selling their extra properties.
Those who invest (gamble) in property prices hoping to hit the jackpot. Foreigners.
The rest suffers. Everybody else suffers. The increase in property prices will cause a rise in rental rates and mortgage rates and mortgage amounts; among numerous other things. Click to link[/b]
Seemingly, our country is catering only to the rich, while the mass of middlers and low incomers, are left to struggle and drown... -
urm I think you meantOriginally posted by ShutterBug:My thread says "Why people leave SG."
And not "Why people leave SG?"
It highlights fats and figures WHY people do so.
And not WHY they shouldn't do so...
And not "Why people SHOULDN'T leave SG"
??? -
The middlers and low incomers are used to attract the rich.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Precisely the issue; the economy here is TUNED for the elites and wealthy, and makes for the gov. While the middle and low gets milked dry and out of the race.
Seemingly, our country is catering only to the rich, while the mass of middlers and low incomers, are left to struggle and drown...
That's what I meant when I said its beneficial for the govt to keep the average wages low -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
Ah yes Soul_Rage, likewise...
urm I think you meant
And not "Why people [b]SHOULDN'T leave SG"
???[/b] -
If your ever think of the future prospect of SG, your next generation will suffer more than us, imagine when you children born out, and still have to fight for a place in school unlike our time.............If your really think into the future issue, your will know why ppl is moving out SG.......'
I will be leaving out to NZ in 3 yrs time also....