To reach First World - First, update the constitution
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It is sad that with so many scholars we have not yet consistently implemented an economic restructuring master plan which will create more technology start-ups despite building up the hard-earned surpluses and other resources like the educated work force to our advantage since the 1970s.Originally posted by walesa:There's a reason why regimes run by despots and tyrants are ever-eager to run the propaganda-mill, isn't there?
Too much monies have been sucked from the people impoverishing them and resulting in our losses of economic competitiveness.
Now what we are witnessing is not our own economic competitiveness but speculative fervor arising from IR and general world economic recovery. -
Who/which should change first, doesn't really matter, because this will lead to a better or worse Singapore.Originally posted by robertteh:It is your reasoning that constitution does not help if people don't want to change.
So it is clear from the above-stated statement of yours that changing the constitution does not help if people don't want to change.
This is like a chicken and egg situation isn't it? Who should change first - the executive who gerrymandered the existing constitution due to its vagueness or generality of provisions or the people's behavior and conduct.
We may have to argue till the cow comes home if we adopt such an approach in any arguments.
One thing is for sure though - the constitution has been rather vague about rights or citizens or definitions of respective roles and responsibilities of the three component branches of government so much so that the executive is impinging a lot into the judiciary and legislative resulting in lopsided policies being pursued to suit the narrow agendas of the ruling party.
For the long term, this may be highly undesirable as power corrupts and absolute powers corrupt absolutely.
For the above-stated facts and logics, it is essential to recognize the shortcomings and weaknesses of the current constitution and do something to set the tone and direction for better nation building. The citizens could then be influenced and mature accordingly being better guided by a more entrepreneur pro-people and pro-progress constitution.
Left to the natural development of people character and human nature it is doubtful the situation will change and any future government will simply continue to exploit whatever loopholes they could find and citizens will only suffer more.
As you've said, the constitution is vague. Since it's vague, it means either you can do it or cannot do it. Look on the brighter side, you probably can do something because the constitution is vague. On the other hand, if the government pursues, this vagueness becomes what they deem as illegal.
Trying although may harm, more harm is done when nobody bothers to try, because their words will become ultimate.
The government is not us, neither are we the government. However, collectively, both form the society, and the core of a society is her people. When people improves, so will the society. Top-down changes may be effective, but bottom-up changes are more permanent and flexible as we are not as restricted. -
Robert,Originally posted by robertteh:Yes, agreed. I think you have written many times too about the need to change the constitution with proposals to institutionalize citizens' involvements in social and cultural aspect of participation and creating a youth parliament etc. These are good works for it signaled that citizens are now coming out to speak up on wrongdoings or unfair government policies one by one like the little red dots in forums.
We will need many more little red dots, for they will make the difference and even they cannot have the power to change they can paint the whole town red to make the sea change eventually happen.
Unfortunately I am almost the only one making those calls. As someone pointed out, changing the Consti is not necessarily the solution. This is because the Consti reflects what the majority of Singaporeans - swayed by "practical" considerations - believe. We need to tackle the root of the problem, which is to educate Singaporeans to have a different mindset. And thus, what we need first is a redesign of the education system. Differently-educated people will surely want to amend what they view as an outmoded Constitution.
And IMHO, you still didn't answer my question in the post you quoted.
Rgds,
the pikamaster -
Education approach is too long. For this sort of proposal to be accepted or published for further presentation to the government, we will need support by some influential institutions. Are you getting them?Originally posted by pikamaster:Robert,
Unfortunately I am almost the only one making those calls. As someone pointed out, changing the Consti is not necessarily the solution. This is because the Consti reflects what the majority of Singaporeans - swayed by "practical" considerations - believe. We need to tackle the root of the problem, which is to educate Singaporeans to have a different mindset. And thus, what we need first is a redesign of the education system. Differently-educated people will surely want to amend what they view as an outmoded Constitution.
And IMHO, you still didn't answer my question in the post you quoted.
Rgds,
the pikamaster -
The main problem I see is interpretation.
It is fine and well to have a near air tight constitution, but with a Govt, who's ultimate string puller is a lawyer who has shown a penchant for ignoring precedence and interpreting the law and rewriting it as he sees fit to suit his aims. This largely comes because we have a spineless judiciary who is utterly subservient to the Govt and not answerable to the people. The law and order in Singapore is at best described as a facade because no one really pays much attention to it, and lawyers in Singapore have resorted to quick footing to avoid getting entangled with the Govt for the sake of preserving both their livelihood and their lives in Singapore because they know that getting entangled will likely see them exiled. The Govt has no respect for its own institutions of law but rather see them as tools to further their aims. The problem of course, is who will enforce the law, and who will enforce the enforcer? However independent the enforcer claims to be, the PAP has subverted the entire system for its own use.
In this, the Civil Service and the PAP are both culpable to this mess we have here. If we are to ensure that there is better respect for the law, it has to start from the bottom to the top. Citizens must be made aware of their rights and must understand that those rights can be lost. Unfortunately, a combination of fear and apathy has created a population who cares only for material needs and nothing more.
Reforming the Constitution isn't enough. The system must torn apart and rebuilt from scratch. This is all I can see and I cannot think of any other way to resolve this mess. Even the Civil Service must be purged. I would go as far as say, that education is the key. Because Singaporeans are brought up in an environment where thinking out of the box isn't quite encouraged, and that they do not believe in the virtues of freedom and courage, t is quite simply impossible to do anything with what we have now. We need more than just tearing the system apart; we need a revolution in mindset in Singapore. Until we sort out these problems in our country out, I fear that the constitution, which was originally meant to protect the rights of the citizens of the country and to form the foundation for our law, is nothing but a cheap piece of paper. -
I think it may well have to become:
To Update the Constitution, First Change the Government...
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That's what I've been driving home to robertteh from my first post in this thread.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I think it may well have to become:
To Update the Constitution, First Change the Government...
To witness the change he craves does not lie so much in amending the Constitution as it does in toppling this regime (by whatever means necessary, even through a bloody coup if need be). After all, you can't possibly win a game dictated on terms by your opponents, can you? -
Absolutely agree. zhan cao yao chu gen, chun feng qui you sheng!!!Originally posted by ShutterBug:I think it may well have to become:
To Update the Constitution, First Change the Government... -
Constitution that is liable to legalistic wrangling to increase one's power is the root of all problems.Originally posted by rane:Absolutely agree. zhan cao yao chu gen, chun feng qui you sheng!!!
So it is necessary to remove all rotten roots and let the plants grow healthy once again. -
Precisely. And the way to begin is by tearing apart the education system. And I don't just mean removing chunks off Chinese textbooks. We need to change the social structure of schools as well...Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The main problem I see is interpretation.
It is fine and well to have a near air tight constitution, but with a Govt, who's ultimate string puller is a lawyer who has shown a penchant for ignoring precedence and interpreting the law and rewriting it as he sees fit to suit his aims. This largely comes because we have a spineless judiciary who is utterly subservient to the Govt and not answerable to the people. The law and order in Singapore is at best described as a facade because no one really pays much attention to it, and lawyers in Singapore have resorted to quick footing to avoid getting entangled with the Govt for the sake of preserving both their livelihood and their lives in Singapore because they know that getting entangled will likely see them exiled. The Govt has no respect for its own institutions of law but rather see them as tools to further their aims. The problem of course, is who will enforce the law, and who will enforce the enforcer? However independent the enforcer claims to be, the PAP has subverted the entire system for its own use.
In this, the Civil Service and the PAP are both culpable to this mess we have here. If we are to ensure that there is better respect for the law, it has to start from the bottom to the top. Citizens must be made aware of their rights and must understand that those rights can be lost. Unfortunately, a combination of fear and apathy has created a population who cares only for material needs and nothing more.
Reforming the Constitution isn't enough. The system must torn apart and rebuilt from scratch. This is all I can see and I cannot think of any other way to resolve this mess. Even the Civil Service must be purged. I would go as far as say, that education is the key. Because Singaporeans are brought up in an environment where thinking out of the box isn't quite encouraged, and that they do not believe in the virtues of freedom and courage, t is quite simply impossible to do anything with what we have now. We need more than just tearing the system apart; we need a revolution in mindset in Singapore. Until we sort out these problems in our country out, I fear that the constitution, which was originally meant to protect the rights of the citizens of the country and to form the foundation for our law, is nothing but a cheap piece of paper. -
wats the point of having so many similar threads.
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Are you directing FI from behind? Then what is the use of sgf..Originally posted by crazy monkey:wats the point of having so many similar threads. -
FI cannot be everywhere. forumites must be cooperative and follow the rules.Originally posted by robertteh:Are you directing FI from behind? Then what is the use of sgf.. -
Why don't you set out the Constitution plainly first?
Otherwise, your kpkb is completely based on nothing but your own biased perceptions........
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some ppl think constitution like posting message here every minute can changeOriginally posted by :Why don't you set out the Constitution plainly first?
Otherwise, your kpkb is completely based on nothing but your own biased perceptions........ 
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The first step is to put up the outline and objective of the proposed new constitution.Originally posted by :Why don't you set out the Constitution plainly first?
Otherwise, your kpkb is completely based on nothing but your own biased perceptions........
This has been done. If our leaders care about the future of Singapore and want to leave a more enduring legacy, they will revise the current constitution as enough rationale has been put up to justify the revision.
If they are below the best or only caring for their own entrenched power, then nothing will be done and their cyber-agents will be duly instructed to pour water. -
Robert,Originally posted by robertteh:The first step is to put up the outline and objective of the proposed new constitution.
This has been done. If our leaders care about the future of Singapore and want to leave a more enduring legacy, they will revise the current constitution as enough rationale has been put up to justify the revision.
If they are below the best or only caring for their own entrenched power, then nothing will be done and their cyber-agents will be duly instructed to pour water.
1 & 2) I think I roughly get the objective, but unfortunately I don't see the outline out yet...
3) I think they are already doing that...
Rgds,
the pikamaster -
It is to be expected self-centred system is destined to atrophy as ngiam tong dow has so aptly put it.Originally posted by pikamaster:Robert,
1 & 2) I think I roughly get the objective, but unfortunately I don't see the outline out yet...
3) I think they are already doing that...
Rgds,
the pikamaster