Hey Lee Kuan Yew,Ma Ying Jeon wont follow your style one!!!!
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do you use your brain when you typed the above message? Or you watch too much cartoon? HOw can the police outnumber the number of residents, what logic is this? VEry stupid!!! Or are you a stupid police yourself!!!Originally posted by BusSpeeder:don't forget this thing: the government controls the police. the police force that we have EASILY, i repeat, EASILY outnumber the residents of singapore. unless you hate the government SO MUCH that you hate the police force we have then you say this in relate towards the government's ruling of the certain defence/attack forces that we have: "We don't care much about the stupid police force that we have", which is insulting.
You don't need to be so mean to bring up hate the gahmen so much that hate the police force! When did I bring up police in my message, kiddo? Don't incite hatred OK!!! We are here to voice our views and if you take it as hating, I think your mentality is questionable!!
From the way you perceive, think, communicate and react- tell us you are a kid!! Go play computer game, this forum is not suitable for you!!! -
You don't think like a kid you will know why!!!Originally posted by BusSpeeder:agreed. taiwan IS a very different country, other countries have her kind of ruling too, but how come she always have her residents fighting when in the courtroom, like most "li wei" fight for just minor issues against their judgement of views.
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I personally think that most Taiwan politicians are smart and coy enough to know what the priorities are. Yes, Ma maybe praising the SG to the high heavens but he knows that the Taiwanese, unlike SGreans are sharp, alert and can analyze information indepedently. They will not just blindly follow what the newspaper says. The blue camp for all this yrs like the PAP have lost contact with the hearts and minds of Taiwanese, especially the younger generation. The autocratic rule of the Chiang eras coupled with the "merry-making, serenading PRC" stances does not bodes well with younger generations. Times have changed, the younger generations of Taiwan wants to carve out an identity or culture for themselves and unlike the older generations, they have no connections or feelings for mainland. So why times have progress, KMT not only lost the support of the young, their usual stances of " KMT is endorsed by the mainland so voting for me means no war", potraying themselves as PRC's second fiddle, does not connect with the ppls. Yes no doubt PRC has threat the island with force, but it is the ppls that installs the govt, not the PLA.......
personally i know quite a few taiwanese young and middle age who are not afterall what we think they are politically savvy. the point is they dont have to spent hours in the internet trying to dig and read and diagnose the information.
the opposition and the countless media programmes are sharp to point out potential errors or mistake by the ruling party. they will present it thru media to reach audience and let the audience diagnose the information.
if our SPH has done that, i bet we can say goodbye to the ruling party sooner than expected. but then again... they get the same rating as afgan. or iran...
so what we say... -
Originally posted by reyes:
Their TV stations are very into checking on the gahmen. They have programme on discussing political issues and they are given the freedom to voice out whatever unhappiness, issues they have about the gahmen which we do not have in Singapore unfortunately. Initially, when I saw such a programme I really couldn't believe my eyes. We are indeed deprived of freedom to talk freely about politics in Singapore. The ruling party here really XVCCWQTET !!!
[b]I personally think that most Taiwan politicians are smart and coy enough to know what the priorities are. Yes, Ma maybe praising the SG to the high heavens but he knows that the Taiwanese, unlike SGreans are sharp, alert and can analyze information indepedently. They will not just blindly follow what the newspaper says. The blue camp for all this yrs like the PAP have lost contact with the hearts and minds of Taiwanese, especially the younger generation. The autocratic rule of the Chiang eras coupled with the "merry-making, serenading PRC" stances does not bodes well with younger generations. Times have changed, the younger generations of Taiwan wants to carve out an identity or culture for themselves and unlike the older generations, they have no connections or feelings for mainland. So why times have progress, KMT not only lost the support of the young, their usual stances of " KMT is endorsed by the mainland so voting for me means no war", potraying themselves as PRC's second fiddle, does not connect with the ppls. Yes no doubt PRC has threat the island with force, but it is the ppls that installs the govt, not the PLA.......
personally i know quite a few taiwanese young and middle age who are not afterall what we think they are politically savvy. the point is they dont have to spent hours in the internet trying to dig and read and diagnose the information.
the opposition and the countless media programmes are sharp to point out potential errors or mistake by the ruling party. they will present it thru media to reach audience and let the audience diagnose the information.
if our SPH has done that, i bet we can say goodbye to the ruling party sooner than expected. but then again... they get the same rating as afgan. or iran...
so what we say...[/b] -
In this sense, wrong logic. But let me ask you, do the residents have weapons????? Do the police have weapons???? And I'm voicing my views... And I'm not a kid.Originally posted by rane:do you use your brain when you typed the above message? Or you watch too much cartoon? HOw can the police outnumber the number of residents, what logic is this? VEry stupid!!! Or are you a stupid police yourself!!!
You don't need to be so mean to bring up hate the gahmen so much that hate the police force! When did I bring up police in my message, kiddo? Don't incite hatred OK!!! We are here to voice our views and if you take it as hating, I think your mentality is questionable!!
From the way you perceive, think, communicate and react- tell us you are a kid!! Go play computer game, this forum is not suitable for you!!! -
Actually..... in this forum, it takes more guts to voice out for the government than against. By far I've witness a lot of pro-govt people here kenna flame until chao tar, but the anti-govt one normally will be hail as heroes even if they just say crap.Originally posted by rane:rock star, you are indirectly commenting about his English, aren't you! Anyway, he is much better than many Singaporeans in a way as he dares to voice out. I have come across so many Singaporeans though they are so unhappy about the gahmen, but they are acting like mice, they are just too timid and fearful of voicing out. They are so afraid they will be arrested if they speak negatively of the gahmen!! -
wisefool83, your message above reflects that you are very downright prejudice, superficial and bias. So you are against people who talk negatively about the gahmen here?!! Majority who talk about the negative side of the gahmen are not talking crap if you are fair in your judgement.Originally posted by wisefool83:Actually..... in this forum, it takes more guts to voice out for the government than against. By far I've witness a lot of pro-govt people here kenna flame until chao tar, but the anti-govt one normally will be hail as heroes even if they just say crap.
Think I am wasting my time and effort even to communicate with you here. Wo nao fei!! -
one more point to add - so many speak negatively about the gahmen show that the gahmen needs lots of improvement in the way they run the country. If you are unhappy reading posts concerning people voicing out negatively about the gahmen, then can't be helped. Everywhere in Singapore we come across people who speak negatively about gahmen, SC is not the only place people do that. This really tell how much the ruling party needs improvement! If you don't like what I just said, too bad, this is life here and we can't deny what the gahmen have been and have not been doing.Originally posted by wisefool83:Actually..... in this forum, it takes more guts to voice out for the government than against. By far I've witness a lot of pro-govt people here kenna flame until chao tar, but the anti-govt one normally will be hail as heroes even if they just say crap. If you think our gahmen is doing so well to take good care of the people of Singapore, go to the gahmen forum and gives thanks and pay your tribute to them there. OK!!
and if you are here talking, blah blah blah to show your unhappiness about people here talking negatively about your dear gahmen or finding fault, then we are not here to make you happy!! -
I rest my case
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Thank you bro,thank you.Originally posted by rane:rock star, you are indirectly commenting about his English, aren't you! Anyway, he is much better than many Singaporeans in a way as he dares to voice out. I have come across so many Singaporeans though they are so unhappy about the gahmen, but they are acting like mice, they are just too timid and fearful of voicing out. They are so afraid they will be arrested if they speak negatively of the gahmen!! -
Well.....i dont quite like Goh Chok Tong,although perhaps he is waiting for Lee Kuan Yew death,then he is dare to make a political reform in Singapore.But until the day he prove to all Singaporeans he got guts to implement a political reform n oppose the Lee family dictatorial ruling,i will stick to my view about him.That is,he is just a boot-licker of the Lee family.Originally posted by BusSpeeder:well done, you dared to shout out. but there's one thing, why did you related ma ying-jeou to goh chok tong? and i don't really think its necessary to compare. -
Ya,i agree.By the way,last time Chiang dictatorial ruling in Taiwan remind me of the Lee family dictatorial ruling in Singapore now.I believe Taiwan is one step ahead of us in overthrowing autocratic ruling government.Originally posted by equlus84:I personally think that most Taiwan politicians are smart and coy enough to know what the priorities are. Yes, Ma maybe praising the SG to the high heavens but he knows that the Taiwanese, unlike SGreans are sharp, alert and can analyze information indepedently. They will not just blindly follow what the newspaper says. The blue camp for all this yrs like the PAP have lost contact with the hearts and minds of Taiwanese, especially the younger generation. The autocratic rule of the Chiang eras coupled with the "merry-making, serenading PRC" stances does not bodes well with younger generations. Times have changed, the younger generations of Taiwan wants to carve out an identity or culture for themselves and unlike the older generations, they have no connections or feelings for mainland. So why times have progress, KMT not only lost the support of the young, their usual stances of " KMT is endorsed by the mainland so voting for me means no war", potraying themselves as PRC's second fiddle, does not connect with the ppls. Yes no doubt PRC has threat the island with force, but it is the ppls that installs the govt, not the PLA.......
The recent speech by Ma is just a smoke screen used to allow KMT to re-shuffle their focus on domestic issues. -
but remember ah bian is no better! DPP is also not doing well to serve the people of Taiwan!Originally posted by drawer:Ya,i agree.By the way,last time Chiang dictatorial ruling in Taiwan remind me of the Lee family dictatorial ruling in Singapore now.I believe Taiwan is one step ahead of us in overthrowing autocratic ruling government. -
Then do u know why so many ppl hate the PAP government in here(or not only here,in many parts of Singapore)?Becoz if let say u dont like my post or threads,u can flame me back or just scroll down your mouse n dont look at my post.BUT,if the government implement policy that are unwelcome by the public or "praise themselves" in the(their) newspaper,can you write in to flame the PAP government?Originally posted by wisefool83:Actually..... in this forum, it takes more guts to voice out for the government than against. By far I've witness a lot of pro-govt people here kenna flame until chao tar, but the anti-govt one normally will be hail as heroes even if they just say crap.
If the PAP government raise GST from 3% to 5%,then to 7%,can you say "NO"?If they raise medical fees,bus fare,food n beverage cost,can you flame them in the newspapers?In Straits Times or Zaobao?Even if some organisation protest abit about the recent hike in price of items,will the PAP government care?Do u have a choice to say "NO"?
So thats why u see,in this forum,u have a "choice" to say "NO" to other forumers view,but in reality,you dont have a "choice" to say "NO" to the PAP government policy.So thats why most ppl hate the PAP government,they didnt give us a "choice" to choose "NO"!!!! -
LIke what I always say, democracy is questionable in Singapore.Originally posted by drawer:Then do u know why so many ppl hate the PAP government in here(or not only here,in many parts of Singapore)?Becoz if let say u dont like my post or threads,u can flame me back or just scroll down your mouse n dont look at my post.BUT,if the government implement policy that are unwelcome by the public or "praise themselves" in the(their) newspaper,can you write in to flame the PAP government?
If the PAP government raise GST from 3% to 5%,then to 7%,can you say "NO"?If they raise medical fees,bus fare,food n beverage cost,can you flame them in the newspapers?In Straits Times or Zaobao?Even if some organisation protest abit about the recent hike in price of items,will the PAP government care?Do u have a choice to say "NO"?
So thats why u see,in this forum,u have a "choice" to say "NO" to other forumers view,but in reality,you dont have a "choice" to say "NO" to the PAP government policy.So thats why most ppl hate the PAP government,they didnt give us a "choice" to choose "NO"!!!! -
Although he is not doing well,but at least,Taiwanese still have the chance to voice out their dissent about him in the media,can our PAP government let us do that?Originally posted by rane:but remember ah bian is no better! DPP is also not doing well to serve the people of Taiwan!
Anyway,i believe the Taiwan political seats will split into 2,DDP and KMT,like what United States did,so as to prevent an overall dictatorial party arise in the government body,just like what Singapore in this pathetic situation now. -
hey, they allow programme on political discussion which we will never never going to have such kind of programme. On the media, never say anything negative about them , if not they will resort to all means to get at you. It is so unfortunate to have such kind of gahmen.Originally posted by drawer:Although he is not doing well,but at least,Taiwanese still have the chance to voice out their dissent about him in the media,can our PAP government let us do that?
Anyway,i believe the Taiwan political seats will split into 2,DDP and KMT,like what United States did,so as to prevent an overall dictatorial party arise in the government body,just like what Singapore in this pathetic situation now.
Just hope DPP will not rule again this is for the good of Taiwan. See with bian taiwan economy is doing very badly. I respect Mr Ma and believe he will do a better job compared to ah bian. ONe thing about bian, he is rather magnanimous in his way. So many hurled insults at him, scolded him and use all sorts of negative words to describe him, he never resort to file for defamation. OUr gahmen needs to learn this from bian. Be mangnanimous ruling party. -
The fact that I'll only get flame is prob not because pple are here are tolerant, but because they don't have the power to do anything more.Originally posted by drawer:Then do u know why so many ppl hate the PAP government in here(or not only here,in many parts of Singapore)?Becoz if let say u dont like my post or threads,u can flame me back or just scroll down your mouse n dont look at my post.BUT,if the government implement policy that are unwelcome by the public or "praise themselves" in the(their) newspaper,can you write in to flame the PAP government?
If the PAP government raise GST from 3% to 5%,then to 7%,can you say "NO"?If they raise medical fees,bus fare,food n beverage cost,can you flame them in the newspapers?In Straits Times or Zaobao?Even if some organisation protest abit about the recent hike in price of items,will the PAP government care?Do u have a choice to say "NO"?
So thats why u see,in this forum,u have a "choice" to say "NO" to other forumers view,but in reality,you dont have a "choice" to say "NO" to the PAP government policy.So thats why most ppl hate the PAP government,they didnt give us a "choice" to choose "NO"!!!!
My point was essentially that if this forum is such that the views of the minority (which are those that stood by the current govt) are not tolerated and flamed to the max simply for the fact that they are different, then how different are the people here who are asking for more democracy from the current govt?
I think the essence of success for democracy is not in letting everyone the right to flame and rant all they want but in "tolerance". If many of the grievances against the govt arises because of PAP's intolerance for opposition views, then should the attitude be fought with display of tolerance? In here, pro PAP views are the "opposition" and if such views can not be tolerated, how different are you from the PAP?
Opposition here may only get flamed. But that's also the max the anyone here can do (Other than FI), is there any guarantee that the same people would not do worse if they have the power?
Another point is to hope that people here do not get partisan. Flaming people simply for their political alignment. As much as you may not like, there are people who agree with what current govt are doing. And just because you don't agree, doesn't mean you get all edgy and start including personal insults into arguments. Opposition views can have their merit and I'm sure you agree this. I may hold different views from you, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from each other. Is there a need to create factions within a small forum such as this? -
You are so against people here speaking facts about what the gahmen is doing. Like I said before, the people here are not here to please you and make you happy. It's more pleasant and encouraging for you to surf the gahmen web, and you can feel free to praise and give compliments to the gahmen there.Originally posted by wisefool83:The fact that I'll only get flame is prob not because pple are here are tolerant, but because they don't have the power to do anything more.
My point was essentially that if this forum is such that the views of the minority (which are those that stood by the current govt) are not tolerated and flamed to the max simply for the fact that they are different, then how different are the people here who are asking for more democracy from the current govt?
I think the essence of success for democracy is not in letting everyone the right to flame and rant all they want but in "tolerance". If many of the grievances against the govt arises because of PAP's intolerance for opposition views, then should the attitude be fought with display of tolerance? In here, pro PAP views are the "opposition" and if such views can not be tolerated, how different are you from the PAP?
Opposition here may only get flamed. But that's also the max the anyone here can do (Other than FI), is there any guarantee that the same people would not do worse if they have the power?
Another point is to hope that people here do not get partisan. Flaming people simply for their political alignment. As much as you may not like, there are people who agree with what current govt are doing. And just because you don't agree, doesn't mean you get all edgy and start including personal insults into arguments. Opposition views can have their merit and I'm sure you agree this. I may hold different views from you, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from each other. Is there a need to create factions within a small forum such as this?
We regret we are not obliged to accept your way of thinking. Go to gahmen websites, you will be a much happier person there. -
I'm still a happy person here. I don't object to people expressing views that disagrees with the current govt, but rather the way that they (including you) express it. I mean phrases like "do you use your brain" and "you immature kid", just doesn't encourage interactions.Originally posted by rane:You are so against people here speaking facts about what the gahmen is doing. Like I said before, the people here are not here to please you and make you happy. It's more pleasant and encouraging for you to surf the gahmen web, and you can feel free to praise and give compliments to the gahmen there.
We regret we are not obliged to accept your way of thinking. Go to gahmen websites, you will be a much happier person there.
Then at the end of the day, what are we going to get?
People who are anti-govt gather at one website telling each other they are the smartest people in the world the only ones that are right. And
People who are pro-govt gather at another website telling each other they are the smartest people in the world the only ones that are right.
So what's the point in that? -
Hey, I think you are practising double standard. If you are happy, why make so much noise, you have so many negative comments on people stating facts about what the gahmen is doing. Don't deny your behavious here lah!!! Like I said, you will be happy surfing the gahmen web. Don't get me wrong - whether we like what the gahmen is doing or not, I still surf the govt website.Originally posted by wisefool83:I'm still a happy person here. I don't object to people expressing views that disagrees with the current govt, but rather the way that they (including you) express it. I mean phrases like "do you use your brain" and "you immature kid", just doesn't encourage interactions.
Then at the end of the day, what are we going to get?
People who are anti-govt gather at one website telling each other they are the smartest people in the world the only ones that are right. And
People who are pro-govt gather at another website telling each other they are the smartest people in the world the only ones that are right.
So what's the point in that?
I am not anti govt, mind your words!!! There are things they are doing which I think is really helpful and necessary. For eg, their support and effort in maintaining religious freedom in Singapore.
So far you are here, criticising people who give their views, comments and thoughts on what the govt is doing. So I see you have a problem with this!! -
Fine then, I apologise for labelling you as an anti-govt personel.Originally posted by rane:Hey, I think you are practising double standard. If you are happy, why make so much noise, you have so many negative comments on people stating facts about what the gahmen is doing. Don't deny your behavious here lah!!! Like I said, you will be happy surfing the gahmen web. Don't get me wrong - whether we like what the gahmen is doing or not, I still surf the govt website.
I am not anti govt, mind your words!!! There are things they are doing which I think is really helpful and necessary. For eg, their support and effort in maintaining religious freedom in Singapore.
So far you are here, criticising people who give their views, comments and thoughts on what the govt is doing. So I see you have a problem with this!!
Essentially my point was I'm cool with people of different views, but not so cool with people who express their views very violently. For eg, I've respect for Atobe's post even though he hold different view from me. I have much lesser respect for shutterbug, robberteh and forumwee88's posts, but that doesn't mean I call them stupid, childish or other nasty words in my posts. I have no problem with different views, but problem with personal insults based on emtional respone rather than rational analysis disguised under the name of "views". -
like it or not, we are not politicians, we only voice our views on the political happenings in Sg. Majority of us are not trained to speak like politicians or lawyers. We may limited vocabulary, and so when we try to put our point across( or disagree with someone), we may be seen as flaming. After all, is it not normal Singaporean behaviour to voice our dissent on a person or a policy that we do not agree with?Originally posted by wisefool83:Fine then, I apologise for labelling you as an anti-govt personel.
Essentially my point was I'm cool with people of different views, but not so cool with people who express their views very violently. For eg, I've respect for Atobe's post even though he hold different view from me. I have much lesser respect for shutterbug, robberteh and forumwee88's posts, but that doesn't mean I call them stupid, childish or other nasty words in my posts. I have no problem with different views, but problem with personal insults based on emtional respone rather than rational analysis disguised under the name of "views".
If u have problems with that, you can NOT read their posts. Remember, we are only normal Singaporeans. -
Originally posted by asdfzhao:like it or not, we are not politicians, we only voice our views on the political happenings in Sg. Majority of us are not trained to speak like politicians or lawyers. We may limited vocabulary, and so when we try to put our point across( or disagree with someone), we may be seen as flaming. After all, is it not normal Singaporean behaviour to voice our dissent on a person or a policy that we do not agree with?
If u have problems with that, you can NOT read their posts. Remember, we are only normal Singaporeans.
. Yes, you said it well.
Think this guy is upset because so far only a couple of people speak well of the gahmen in this thread. If he is so pro gahmen, it is unreasonable and unrealistic of him to expect people to be like him or to be very good in phrasing our sentences/statements when we state facts, views and comments about the gahmen. He is just being perfectionistic!! -
Not really, rane and asdfzhao, I'm not really looking for the "england very powderful kind here" It's more of the attitude. I say broken england also can be nice nice one mah. Don't need to always, you "stupid ah", "no brain ah" and such and such.Originally posted by rane: . Yes, you said it well.
Think this guy is upset because so far only a couple of people speak well of the gahmen in this thread. If he is so pro gahmen, it is unreasonable and unrealistic of him to expect people to be like him or to be very good in phrasing our sentences/statements when we state facts, views and comments about the gahmen. He is just being perfectionistic!!
I mean what happen if we keep saying things like this and take pride in being able to humiliate our opponent? You know, like for eg ah only for eg, Rane in one of her previous post called me wo nan fei. Normally, somebody of the opposite team would shoot back and said it "should be spelled as Wo Nang Fei" then insert "a counter insult" like "you noob". But what would happen if I do that? Rane would prob get focus on language problem then we go off topic again liao lor.
Like I say before so many times, I'm not against people saying bad things about govt. I like it better if the points are substaintial and well-backed like Atobe's. I may not like shutterbug and robberteh kind of everything under-the-sun also PAP's fault style of writing, but I also don't flame them and insult them mah.