Free Education and Medical Care : Fact or Myth?
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I shall go ahead and be your guest then.Originally posted by Gazelle:Rock_Star,
Let me tell you this, you are not the first or going to be last one to use my BAR threads against me in this forum and if you think by doing that it is going to discredit what I am saying here, than you are Fcking wrong, because I am not ashame of what I did and I am a man that stand by what I said and I have no intention to hide and pretent to be someone else using a different nickname posting in this forum.
Get over it lah......thats is a bloody old "joke" if you think thats funny.
This is your blowjob thread. Absolutely no sense of discretion at all.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=88282
Thanks for the laughs. -
There have also been australian based forumers who feel that the free healthcare and education are a good thing.Originally posted by Gazelle:Some australia based forumers here has already demostrate to us why a welfare system like australia will not work in Asia.
I am not saying australia government promote slacker, but just saying that slackers will generally be more attracted to such welfare system.
There are poor people living in Singapore, however non have die without healthcare and education, because Singapore government does provided funding for these unfortunate people.
http://www.moe.gov.sg/finance/fas.htm
Well, slackers from outside australia will have trouble getting PRs in australia in the first place. I think I can safely assume that the percentage of people abusing the system is not alot higher than the unemployment rate in Singapore. Even in terms of unemployment percentile, they are not very far from us.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/others/mrsd/statistics/Unemployment.html
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Australian_unemployment_at_lowest_level_in_30_years
There is still no safety net here in SG to ensure that those who are unable to seek employment are taken care of. Free education doesn't mean squat if the parents are unable to bring back enough to feed the family and the kids are forced to work.
And back to the topic, I think we have established that free education and healthcare in Australia is not a myth.
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To: Gazelle (the panties sniffing dog)
fymk has already told us the benefits of living in Australia, I think fymk would provide the best possible opinion on the situation.
You don't live there and you will never qualify to live there, so let's face it, you will never understand the benefits of living there. You are akin to a person who read a book on driving a car (theoretical aspects), never driven a car before, but tries to analyse the practicality of driving a car. How quaint.
Knowing your style, you will persist in continuing with your losing argument regardless of the evidence provided.
1) There is no basis for comparison, you are comparing apples with oranges. The best part is, you don't even eat oranges (you don't live there, don't even understand their system) and you are trying to pass judgement on it.
2) How the Australian government decides to fund their free healthcare and free education is not within the scope of this discussion. It's about free education and free medical care, which fymk has already elaborated to us, it's free.
You are trying to extrapolate into the future, about the Australian government's ability to provide free healthcare and free education in the future. Which to my understanding will never ever be accurate, how the future will churn out, we will never know, unless you are god. Each system has it ways of working around the figures, like Germany who has a high unemployment rate , though the rate might be high for us, it's considered a natural rate (in economic terms) for them, they have had high unemployment rate for decades, yet they are the world's second largest in surpluses. Hell!!! You don't even live in Australia, you have never lived in Australia, from the looks of it, you will never live in Australia (who would want a liability in their country), how does it concern you.
I think you will go on ranting like a madman as usual, not wanting to succumb to being defeated. Happy chatting to yourself, I am withdrawing from this thread, rather spend my time doing something useful than trying to make dogs understand logic. -
I am still waiting for fymk to tell us how much tax she is paying a year vs. how much benefit she is getting from the govenment of australia, inclusive of faking her tax claims on leather handbag
Yes, shortsighted people will call it free education and healthcare -
((I think I can safely assume that the percentage of people abusing the system is not alot higher than the unemployment rate in Singapore)))Originally posted by Jontst78:There have also been australian based forumers who feel that the free healthcare and education are a good thing.
Well, slackers from outside australia will have trouble getting PRs in australia in the first place. I think I can safely assume that the percentage of people abusing the system is not alot higher than the unemployment rate in Singapore. Even in terms of unemployment percentile, they are not very far from us.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/others/mrsd/statistics/Unemployment.html
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Australian_unemployment_at_lowest_level_in_30_years
There is still no safety net here in SG to ensure that those who are unable to seek employment are taken care of. Free education doesn't mean squat if the parents are unable to bring back enough to feed the family and the kids are forced to work.
And back to the topic, I think we have established that free education and healthcare in Australia is not a myth.
You think and your assume...can I take your word for it? Or is it better if I ask you to support your claim?
So if you say free healthcare and education is not a myth, then could you explain where does all these funding comes from?? From George Bush? -
I don't know...you tell me. It is easy to cast aspersions without a shred of evidence, although that's what you are very good at. Back up your arguments with solid facts and figures, although I expect you have come from the same mold as that clown CSJ, great for making allegations but never able to back up with facts.Originally posted by Atobe:What evidence do you have that the poor people in Singapore did not die without healthcare and education ?
Will it not be a consequential fact that those who are poor will probably be ignorant of their illness due to their poor education, and will not be familiar with any available medical help until they have reached an advanced stage of illness ?
How many of the poor that finally reach Class C ward in a severe stage, will actually walk out fully recovered, compared to those with the same illness in Class A or Class B1 or B2 wards ?
NPNT
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Well my assumptions were based on the unemployment rates published by both govts, which were included in the post above.Originally posted by Gazelle:((I think I can safely assume that the percentage of people abusing the system is not alot higher than the unemployment rate in Singapore)))
You think and your assume...can I take your word for it? Or is it better if I ask you to support your claim?
So if you say free healthcare and education is not a myth, then could you explain where does all these funding comes from?? From George Bush?
It has already been established that its free at the point of delivery, regardless of how much you make. And its free for the low income and unemployed, which serves its purpose and thus its not a myth. -
You are just being naive to disregard the income tax as part of paying for your "free" education and healthcare.Originally posted by Jontst78:Well my assumptions were based on the unemployment rates published by both govts, which were included in the post above.
It has already been established that its free at the point of delivery, regardless of how much you make. And its free for the low income and unemployed, which serves its purpose and thus its not a myth. -
Gazelle... Gazelle... I have never called you any names or made any assumptions of your intellect, I don't even remember using any adjectives on you... sigh.... Maybe if you didn't talk down to people so often you'd get less anamosity around here?Originally posted by Gazelle:You are just being naive to disregard the income tax as part of paying for your "free" education and healthcare.
Sigh... isn't that the thread title...
Income tax or not, its still free, especially to those who truely cannot afford decent healthcare. Yes, someone else may be paying for it via income tax if they earn more. But that doesn't take away the fact that its free at the point of delivery to the patient. -
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I think this is a matter of half full or half empty. Regardless of what you say, it is the people who are paying for it.Originally posted by Jontst78:Gazelle... Gazelle... I have never called you any names or made any assumptions of your intellect, I don't even remember using any adjectives on you... sigh.... Maybe if you didn't talk down to people so often you'd get less anamosity around here?
Sigh... isn't that the thread title...
Income tax or not, its still free, especially to those who truely cannot afford decent healthcare. Yes, someone else may be paying for it via income tax if they earn more. But that doesn't take away the fact that its free at the point of delivery to the patient. -
Actually yes, the people are paying for it. The people pay for everything isn't it or almost eveything in a certain degree? Its the same here in SG as in Aust, a substiantial portion of Govt revenue comes from income tax. Just that in SG, there is no safety net, or rather, not a very "soild" (i use the term loosely) one.Originally posted by Gazelle:I think this is a matter of half full or half empty. Regardless of what you say, it is the people who are paying for it. -
You should proof to me that as a whole, the australians are gaining more benefits than what they pay in income tax.Originally posted by Jontst78:Actually yes, the people are paying for it. The people pay for everything isn't it or almost eveything in a certain degree? Its the same here in SG as in Aust, a substiantial portion of Govt revenue comes from income tax. Just that in SG, there is no safety net, or rather, not a very "soild" (i use the term loosely) one. -
Hmm.... why should I have to do that?Originally posted by Gazelle:You should proof to me that as a whole, the australians are gaining more benefits than what they pay in income tax. Hasn't this thread already established the fact that Healthcare and education is free at the point of delivery? Targeted at those who truely cannot afford it? Granted, tis a system that benefits the poor more that the rich, sure. But staying true to the topic on the thread, its still free.
In fact the rich in Australia get almost no returns on their taxes in education and healthcare coz they will most prolly use private institutions.
We're not debating about whether the Australian govt should give out free healthcare and education here, are we?
Maybe there should be another thread. "should singapore have free healthcare and education?" At the expense of the rich (say top 20% of income earners). woooo... that'll be a whole can of big fat worms... -
The purpose of this thread is to highlight a fews things.Originally posted by Jontst78:Hmm.... why should I have to do that? Hasn't this thread already established the fact that Healthcare and education is free at the point of delivery? Targeted at those who truely cannot afford it? Granted, tis a system that benefits the poor more that the rich, sure. But staying true to the topic on the thread, its still free.
In fact the rich in Australia get almost no returns on their taxes in education and healthcare coz they will most prolly use private institutions.
We're not debating about whether the Australian govt should give out free healthcare and education here, are we?
Maybe there should be another thread. "should singapore have free healthcare and education?" At the expense of the rich (say top 20% of income earners). woooo... that'll be a whole can of big fat worms...
a) Where the australian government fund their expenditure on healthcare and education
b) The difference per capita income tax Singapore and Australia governments are collecting
c) On average, does australian gain more in value of benefits than Singapore after we offset (b)
Australian bound Singaporeans are always talking about free this and that, but none ever mentioned the income tax. (which I am not surprise)
Like I said before, a system that work in western culture does not necessary meant it will work in Asia one example is a welfare system and the other is the circle junction that you commonly see in UK -
everyone pays taxes, like it or not.....the aussies pay it forward....while sg pays and do not expect to see it return.....the former is people-centric while he latter is elite-centric.....
china, as reported in today's paper, is trying to bridge the income gap through social policies while sg would not even entertain such thoughts....
capitalism may bring about vibrancy to the market but an unbridled one is socially flawed.....as is retirement is now a luxury and worse is the less than friendly geriatric benefits....having stayed in aussie before, the senior citizens are treated with great respect by the state...many of the social programme benefit the elderly......
free by definition means you don't pay for it, but if you want to nitpick about paying through taxes and what not, then nothing is free....not even the air that you breath... -
http://www.budget.gov.au/2007-08/overview/html/overview_37.htmOriginally posted by Gazelle:The purpose of this thread is to highlight a fews things.
a) Where the australian government fund their expenditure on healthcare and education
b) The difference per capita income tax Singapore and Australia governments are collecting
c) On average, does australian gain more in benefits than Singapore after we offset (b)
Australian bound Singaporeans are always talking about free this and that, but none ever mentioned the income tax. (which I am not surprise)
Like I said before, a system that work in western culture does not necessary meant it will work in Asia one example is a welfare system and the other is the circle junction that you commonly see in UK
Well in the link above, they(Aust Govt) are pretty transparent where the money goes. Sure, the higher earning aussies pay alot more tax, no dispute, I fact I feel the high earners are not taxed enough here in SG.
To answer question (c), well I cannot answer that. Only someone who migrates there can answer you. Is the general quality of life worth the higher tax? The benefits of migrating are not just limited to dollars and cents.
And to stay true to the topic here - Healthcare and education is still free to those who truely cannot afford it Yup, and the rich poeple get almost zero returns on thier tax, coz they go private, still its a choice they make. Still free to the patient 
Tax is not an investment.[/url] -
A. Anything below 36k is non taxable in Australia . If I get Singaporean type of shitty pay in Australia -then I don't pay tax in Australia. I pay heavier taxes because of my current salary but after tax, I still earn twice what I would earn in Singapore ....So really........Originally posted by Gazelle:fymk, dont mind me asking.
a) How much income tax have you paid over the years living in australia?
b) How much income tax will you have to pay if you are earning the same amount in singapore
c) What is (a) minus (b)
d) How much benefit have you gain so far living in Australia.
e) I know you can claim expense related to work, but how much have you claimed
f) What are the chances of someone being warded to hospital every year?
In order for this discussion to be constructive, I think it is better to put a number to what we discuss instead of just saying in Australia, this is free and that is free.
Originally posted by Gazelle:
[b]I am still waiting for fymk to tell us how much tax she is paying a year vs. how much benefit she is getting from the govenment of australia, inclusive of faking her tax claims on leather handbag
Yes, shortsighted people will call it free education and healthcare
B. Can't remember - I think I paid about 1k . Not sure - was eons ago when I worked in Singapore
C. I think A and B is N.A .
D. Heavily subsidised post graduate education in University , healthcare benefits - like going to the Emergency room and going out of there without paying a bill. In regards to free education - that would be public schooling up to high school if I am not wrong . Not too sure but my education is close to being free because my employer pays for my heavily subsidised post grad education as well as my tax backs. Both negates my education fees
E. I claimed alot legally via a good accountant because I also study at the same time .
So before you shoot your mouth off about fake claiming - remember : this is not the first time you committed libel or defamation and that impacts on your credibility. Not easy to screw up ATO - they screw you up if something does not add up on tax returns.
F. Better safe than sorry . Your question is as good as asking if you will be hit by a car next day.
So I would suggest that you quit talking unless you live in Australia. You are making yourself a laughing stock for stupidity. -
A. If you stop by Australia - go to their national library and request for copies of their portfolio budget statements - be aware , one department may have a 500 page long account of how they administer the funds from taxpayer money and into what programs and what outcomes .Originally posted by Gazelle:The purpose of this thread is to highlight a fews things.
a) Where the australian government fund their expenditure on healthcare and education
b) The difference per capita income tax Singapore and Australia governments are collecting
c) On average, does australian gain more in value of benefits than Singapore after we offset (b)
Australian bound Singaporeans are always talking about free this and that, but none ever mentioned the income tax. (which I am not surprise)
Like I said before, a system that work in western culture does not necessary meant it will work in Asia one example is a welfare system and the other is the circle junction that you commonly see in UK
This is in accordance with the Financial Management Act (FMA) and all departments have to undergo senate estimates twice a year ( which means they have to justify their spending to the senators). I can tell you that their senate estimates is not wayang kulit because senators from the ruling party and opposition parties are in it . The opposition party senators tend to ask alot of questions. If any of you want to see how transparent this process is , go to www.aph.gov.au and then type "senate estimates" in the search form- have a look at their transcripts.
B. I am not qualified to answer that. Only a qualified economist will be able to answer that.
C. Australians do not pay their ministers million dollar payouts - any ruling party tries to do that - there will be a risk that they will be voted out the next round. An Australian has a right to social security , health and education. This is what they believe in and I am not complaining . -
Hmm....Originally posted by Gazelle:This is a true story..
There was once I went to a friend's place to check out his new audio system..Â…..my friend was staying in the nice apartment together with his sister (who is Singapore supermodel ) and parents, who were away on that dayÂ…Â….....when I first arrive, nobody was there accept for my friendÂ….....then at about 10.30 in the eveningÂ…......this tall, gorgeous looking girl walks inÂ…that was the first time that I see his sister in person...Â….she was stunning, wearing this worn out jeans and white T-shirt....Â…..she was very friendly and sat down with us for about 15 mins before going to her room to take her showerÂ…Â…Â….(her sister room is actually linked to the common toilet that I have been using before she came back)Â…Â…..and after about 20minsÂ…..Â….her sister open the toilet doorÂ…..and I quickly make my way to the toilet cause I need to pee badlyÂ….
When I was enjoying my peeÂ…Â…Â….I was shock to see sometime lying on the laundry basket cover Â…..it was my friend sister's used panties and bra...she just remove a few minutes agoÂ…and you can see that the stain on it is still wet....(must have forgotten that I am in the house)Â…..when I see thatÂ…....my heart start to pump in double quick timeÂ…and without much thinking........my hands went straight down to reach for itÂ…Â…..the panties that I was holding is white in color......and it comes with some yellowish stain Â…...Â…while I am holding itÂ….....my mind was trying to picture her supermodel face together with the pantiesÂ…Â….man it was really mind blowÂ…...then I start to smell itÂ…Â…..
I know it might sound sick and crazyÂ…Â…Â…but the curiosity of knowing how a supermodel pu$$y smells like is just irresistible.
Any one have the similar experience before? -
pwned by fymk and sg king of the dinos
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My take - when you get the stick , you will learn otherwise. It is all about elitist class and owning a second hand audi does not qualify you into that class . Second hand audis are nothing but an overpriced status symbol for those who cannot afford first hand audis in Singapore and in fact cheap in Australia - buy yourself a custom ordered rolls royce phantom in Singapore then you can talk . Don't talk so much.Originally posted by Gazelle:I guess Singapore government is smart to "reward" people who have the drive to succeed in life, while Australia create a enviroment to attract people who want to be a slacker in life.
If Singapore govt is smart to reward people who have the drive to succeed in life, then the Australian government is a genious to create an environment to attract truly talented people who are already successful in their life as well as nurture their local talents on home ground . As much as you like to laugh at Australia for being slacker country , Australians are known for their biomedical industry ( heard of the bionic ear? Heard of CSL which produces vaccine?) , don't be too arrogant.
If you want to be a slacker in life in Australia, you are setting yourself up for failure . However under current immigration rules , I don't see "slacker " occupation as one of the wanted. It is not easy to come to Australia but it is easy to build your wealth in Australia once you are already in. -
so? Am I going to marry your sister or what?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Hmm.... -
care to share with us how you get away from paying income tax with an income of 36K? Fake claim I suppose?Originally posted by fymk:A. Anything below 36k is non taxable in Australia . If I get Singaporean type of shitty pay in Australia -then I don't pay tax in Australia. I pay heavier taxes because of my current salary but after tax, I still earn twice what I would earn in Singapore ....So really........
B. Can't remember - I think I paid about 1k . Not sure - was eons ago when I worked in Singapore
C. I think A and B is N.A .
D. Heavily subsidised post graduate education in University , healthcare benefits - like going to the Emergency room and going out of there without paying a bill. In regards to free education - that would be public schooling up to high school if I am not wrong . Not too sure but my education is close to being free because my employer pays for my heavily subsidised post grad education as well as my tax backs. Both negates my education fees
E. I claimed alot legally via a good accountant because I also study at the same time .
So before you shoot your mouth off about fake claiming - remember : this is not the first time you committed libel or defamation and that impacts on your credibility. Not easy to screw up ATO - they screw you up if something does not add up on tax returns.
F. Better safe than sorry . Your question is as good as asking if you will be hit by a car next day.
So I would suggest that you quit talking unless you live in Australia. You are making yourself a laughing stock for stupidity. -
Isn't that a question that only you can answer?Originally posted by Gazelle:so? Am I going to marry your sister or what?