Singapore Economy underfunded compared to military
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Originally posted by asdfg2:
your point being?
CX: Uncorruptability can be easily proven; however efficiency is not. We are not miltary experts and cannot give a benchmark on what is efficient or not. Plain common sense is not optimum efficiency; and miltary hardware's efficiency procurment efficiency may not be accurately measured in economical terms. So facts gathered must neccessarily be lengthy and the peruser of sufficent knowledge.
is this part of your 3-pronged convince, confuse, con strategy? i see u are at the second stage now...
miltary hardware's efficiency procurment efficiency may not be accurately measured in economical terms
and pray, tell us how oh enlightened one, how one might measure military procurements efficiently if not measured at least tangibly in economic terms (economics is the study of the discipline, economical means "cheap" )
if u have a problem with my approach, constructively suggest other factors to be taken into account which proves otherwise. if u cannot do that, i cannot accept evidence through omission.
so here's to you: prove it. -
asdfg2... you seem to have a vew peculiar view on things... very... erm... unconventional indeed...
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and kudos to the moron that is wasting all our time....Originally posted by asdfg2:The lack of intelligence is killing me here, so I had better speak slowly:
oh... my condolence... but obviously your lack of intelligience is of no faults of ours..... since you claim to lack intelligience... we can understand why you must better speak slowly.... (ehh.... type slowly)
1) Did I say miltary hardware purchases is not part of miltary spending: hey... check your own posting man... you are the one who want to split the 2... not us...
Your buddy is arguing that a strong and aggressive miltary creates a strong economy. Is that rational? give you a moment to think whether it is true. (I can give a full blown argument, complete with counterexamples but then I may be wasting my breath with irrational people). give us the counter examples first... then we shall gauge whether your examples is admissable as comparison to singapore... a strong milltary gives security and provide stability, it is an essential pre-requisite for economic growth.... a strong millitary also helps to boost local economy...in terms of higher fiscal spendings... an aggressive miilitary?? who mentioned about aggressive millitary???
China is wary of Japan, because of wartime aggression in the past and China never had designs on Japan ever. ...... you japanese or chinese national??? is this your one sided presumption or isit that you heard it from the horse mouth?
2) Israel of SEA?!! If Sg is ever like Israel, even for a day, Sg will dead or crippled. Sure we should occupy Johor now or in the future right, so that we aren't caught "turtling". Singapore is not the isreal of SEA... because... in SEA... muslims are not the majority.... there are 250 million muslims... at most... surrounded by an even larger non-muslim population to the north with china standing at 1.6billion, japan with 190, to the south, australia and NZ with 25 million plus thailand, burma, vietnam, phillipine, cambodia and laos totalling 350 million and india to the west with 1.1 billion... thats about 3 billion non-muslims against 250 million muslism..... occupy johor??? ehh.... WE ALREADY DID.... we currently own more then 50 percent of all of JOHOR's GDP and we have the MAF and the malaysian police working hard 24 hours aday to protect our investment over there like the good dogs that they are.... so far... they have been most happy to recieve us....
3) Just think of a war Sg's image projected by an aggressive force. Just think of Japan's image of an aggressive army and it's effect on ties with its neighbours. aggressive image???.... ehh... that one is said BY YOU.. CLAIM by YOU... believe BY YOU and spouted all this nonsense also BY YOU... so go home and slap yourself... Singapore has and had and will never declare its military as aggresive... we simply declare that IF attacked .... IF threatened... we will DEFEND singapore with all the might, techonology, man and weapons that we GOT! SO.... aggressors... beware... IS THIS AGGRESSIVE???? i believe every nation practice the above...
As much as whoever it is is happy that I am not a defence advisor, Sg is glad that they have u ppl as diplomats or policy makers. Otherwise you ppl fall into a JI trap without a doubt. JI??? they probably work for MAF or TNI... dont be too damn sure that work for Al-qaeda.... SAF probably arrested them and make big movie out of them to warn off the real puppet master while claiming a dead man's organization as reponsible out of diplomatic concern.... Thus far... only the JI story of singapore is revealed... i am pretty damn sure that JI also have a script writtened for malaysia as well as for indonesia... just that... TNI is hardly interested in dealing with JI and malaysia govt seems very silent about the singapore revelation... afterall... the JI's were presumably planning to overthrow his maharajaness into the longkang....
And kudos to all the rugrats with their peashooters for not examining the need, cause and effect of war on Sg.
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yawnn....... in the DISTANT future..................Originally posted by asdfg2:Imagine in the distant future:
Sucide bombers in occupied Johor.
hey.... kuku.... if people dont like you... they will suicide bomb you even if you did nothing to them... or if you appeared as unable or unwilling to do the same against them....
Isrealis are simply too tolerant with the palentinians... Uncle SAM shows the correct way to deal with terrorist... you bomb them and you kill them and bloody hell buried them right in the rat holes they hide in.... no remorse.....
ITs a war...... and if MAF hit singapore civilians... I cannot guarantee you that SAF will not do likewise by napalming every damn malaysian villange, town and cities... until the MAF or watever resistance factions realise the foolishness of their actions....
and when singapore civilians are killed... the SAF soldiers in the front... may have little reason to restraint themselves from doing likewise... and if the MAF or JI operates without Uniform... woe is to the malaysian civilians... cos than SAF might simply choose to be safe then sorry...... -
Originally posted by asdfg2:CX: Uncorruptability can be easily proven; however efficiency is not. We are not miltary experts and cannot give a benchmark on what is efficient or not. Plain common sense is not optimum efficiency; and miltary hardware's efficiency procurment efficiency may not be accurately measured in economical terms. So facts gathered must neccessarily be lengthy and the peruser of sufficent knowledge.
Strong vs expeditorary?
Anti ballistic missles. A larger, well-trained, well-paid professional army. A few ballistic missles. Subs. Anti-Subs.
Sg's aircraft carrier and/or long range stealth bomber. Arsenal of Ballisitic missles. Crusier. Destoryer
Oh yeah tripwire, please stopt faking your age and your credentials. If someone was to take you seriously, then it is an bad indication that adults can have such juevenile minds and tendencies in Singapore.
boy...... when did you last change your diapers??? -
comfirm my belief... YOU KNOW SHIT about economics..... only a kuku would make the above statement....Originally posted by asdfg2:Trade. Define trade. Then products. Define products. Under system of abosulte compartive advantage, Sg will not be building a lot of things it is building now.
do you know wat is comparative advantage....?? you O level economics or A level economics?? obviously you DONT... else you wont be asking stupid question.... go and read it up.... -
errm. on the issue of Israel being too patient with the Palestinians, I personally think they don't have much of a choice. if they whack Palestine, which does not deserve to exist in the first place, just look at the state they are in and all they ever do and produce (suicide bombers), Israel will get recieve a foreign relations nightmare if they whack Palestine. On the other hand, while people will also cirticise the US, the US still holds great influence in this world.
And I personally think there is nothing wrong with Singapore's defence spending. . .we naturally have to spend more, just take a look around. . ., and i know this sounds childish, but it remains the truth: i doubt Malaysia wil give in on ANYTHING if we dun prove we can whack them. . .
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errr. . .and like i said in one of my posts, supposed to be mugging for exams now, just slacking a bit. . . -
I fully agreeOriginally posted by tripwire:yawnn....... in the DISTANT future..................
hey.... kuku.... if people dont like you... they will suicide bomb you even if you did nothing to them... or if you appeared as unable or unwilling to do the same against them....
Isrealis are simply too tolerant with the palentinians... Uncle SAM shows the correct way to deal with terrorist... you bomb them and you kill them and bloody hell buried them right in the rat holes they hide in.... no remorse.....
ITs a war...... and if MAF hit singapore civilians... I cannot guarantee you that SAF will not do likewise by napalming every damn malaysian villange, town and cities... until the MAF or watever resistance factions realise the foolishness of their actions....
and when singapore civilians are killed... the SAF soldiers in the front... may have little reason to restraint themselves from doing likewise... and if the MAF or JI operates without Uniform... woe is to the malaysian civilians... cos than SAF might simply choose to be safe then sorry...... -
I am not talking to kids with peashooters and who cannot even issue proper grammatical sentences or discuss issues in a mature way, much less economics.
Whether Palaestine deserves to exist or not is strictly your opinion. Palaestine does not deserve to exist..on what basis? Theoretically if Palaestine does not deserve to exist, then on what basis has Singapore to exist? -
Neither can you. That is the point. Is there an academic benchmark, based on other factors like efficency and suitabilty of the weapon which cannot be measured in economic terms as well as the worldwide comparison of miltary acquistions.Originally posted by CX:so here's to you: prove it.
Your explanation given is that someone bought something for X dollars from foreign companies and not > X dollars from GLC, replacing an antiquated technology? So, is there something I can compare to.
1) is it possible that there are "cheaper" places to acquire or negotiations such that the price can be driven lower.
2) is someone more efficient?
Without explict and in depth knowledge about aforementioned technology, I can only rely on general reasoning?
Nice reasoning about evidence by omission only; the problem is that I have shown above that your reasoing is shallow and the facts you have displayed are insufficient. -
Sure I don't like tripwire and his juevenile postings, am I allowed to report him before he becomes a menace to the security of Sg if he endangers the relationship between My and Sg in order to instigate a war.
On the issue of all "strong miltaries" being the basis on all strong economies, look no further than N.Korea, Russia, Pakistan. Try getting into war with these chaps. -
EXCO, I strongly suggest open discussion with your teachers and your parents if you believe strongly in your opinions or what tripwire is saying. You are entitled to your views but it is important to talk to adults about such issues, more important than sex.
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Countries..... those MFs WHO dont know how to coexist with other nations within the framwork of a global system... CANNOT exist....Originally posted by asdfg2:I am not talking to kids with peashooters and who cannot even issue proper grammatical sentences or discuss issues in a mature way, much less economics. you dont know economics, just say you dont know lah.... come here act act.... go home and look at yourself in the toilet bowl reflection.... lah......
Whether Palaestine deserves to exist or not is strictly your opinion. Palaestine does not deserve to exist..on what basis? Theoretically if Palaestine does not deserve to exist, then on what basis has Singapore to exist?
Until those MFs palaestinians realise that they are not the centre of the universe and they are no closer to GOD then the next fella... THEY will not be accepted into the folds of nations.... even if they do.... they will one day ends up like IRAQ or PRNK. -
kuku... the real world is very different from your textbook one...Originally posted by asdfg2:Neither can you. That is the point. Is there an academic benchmark, based on other factors like efficency and suitabilty of the weapon which cannot be measured in economic terms as well as the worldwide comparison of miltary acquistions.
Your explanation given is that someone bought something for X dollars from foreign companies and not > X dollars from GLC, replacing an antiquated technology? So, is there something I can compare to.
1) is it possible that there are "cheaper" places to acquire or negotiations such that the price can be driven lower.
2) is someone more efficient?
Without explict and in depth knowledge about aforementioned technology, I can only rely on general reasoning?
Nice reasoning about evidence by omission only; the problem is that I have shown above that your reasoing is shallow and the facts you have displayed are insufficient.
in the real world... complete information is impossible... additional information adds to cost... and potential overloading of information.
furthermore... opinions and valuations differs from one buyer to the next... based on the purchasers likes, situation, constraints, perception and .............
As long as the purchaser felt that he is getting the best available product admist all the tangible and intangibles, within all the information available and within the constraints of the system... the purchaser is deemed to have obtained the best value for money....
YOUR BRAIN STUCK IN THE TOILET ISIT? -
Originally posted by asdfg2:Sure I don't like tripwire and his juevenile postings, am I allowed to report him before he becomes a menace to the security of Sg if he endangers the relationship between My and Sg in order to instigate a war. why dont you try it first and see IF you get to be sent to the IMH.... to check if your IQ is below average....
On the issue of all "strong miltaries" being the basis on all strong economies, look no further than N.Korea, Russia, Pakistan. Try getting into war with these chaps.
IDIOTS!!!! need i say more???
PRNK is poor because of its closed door policy and application of control economy...
RUSSIA was practising the same as USSR until it collapsed....
Pakistan was due to poor economic management....
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR PROVING TO ALL OF US.... YOU GOT SHIT AS BRAIN IN THAT EMPTY CRANIUM OF YOURs...
you know the difference between mixed economy, free economy and control economy??? dont know?? search the internet lah..... since either way... you just an empty bucket.... -
OLD MAN.... i think its long pass your tiime.... y dont you leave the world to us and lie down in that coffin of yours for good....Originally posted by asdfg2:EXCO, I strongly suggest open discussion with your teachers and your parents if you believe strongly in your opinions or what tripwire is saying. You are entitled to your views but it is important to talk to adults about such issues, more important than sex.
Your senile thoughts an inadept logical processing is making you THE joke of the net... -
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Originally posted by asdfg2:
When ST goes shopping, they go around evaluating other possible suppliers as well. you would do the same too if u wanted to buy a new TV set! don't be lame...
Your explanation given is that someone bought something for X dollars from foreign companies and not > X dollars from GLC, replacing an antiquated technology? So, is there something I can compare to.
they chose to make their own because they couldn't find one that suited all the specs and it would not be as effective and cost-efficient to buy one and modify (quite ridiculous to radically modify an existing rifle though... never heard of anyone doing that before)
this trend is not limited to the rifle. the same is true of the developments in armoured vehicles as well. why make your own? because then, u can make it to suit u exactly, u gain experience to build a better one and u can sell it if u make it good enough.1) is it possible that there are "cheaper" places to acquire or negotiations such that the price can be driven lower.
pay peanuts, get monkeys... the only "cheap" source of weapons are from former warsaw states and u face integration problems after that. give ST some credit. they do their homework.
2) is someone more efficient?
defence equipment may or may not be price elastic. it depends on the level of competition. if u've done your homework and are on to a few very specific factors which only one platform can deliver, then pushing your luck on the price will just screw the deal. not everything is negotiable.
and why do u think we bought training submarines from sweden? because they have a long, established history of operating submarines and make some of the world's best submarines (though the sub industry is german owned now). efficiency! if ST was being the careless ego-maniac u claim to be, wouldn't they have tried to build their own sub? what for? the Australians tried that with their collins class subs and got nothing but a problematic sub and pain in return. (incidentally, the Collins design is partially swedish too, though the problems are not in the design, its the production.)Without explict and in depth knowledge about aforementioned technology, I can only rely on general reasoning?
reasoning must be backed up with facts. what we talk about here are based on information available on the public domain, not limited to Sg sources. they are the views of international security analysts as well as our own. i would footnote them but i don't think anybody here minds.
Nice reasoning about evidence by omission only; the problem is that I have shown above that your reasoing is shallow and the facts you have displayed are insufficient.
you know what? nothing is sufficient to you because u have already made up your mind before u joined the discussion. have an open mind.
we obviously stand by our position because they are well-researched and established positions, not just your bizarre "reasoning" which i find most unreasonable.
and please! what "in depth knowledge" is it that u want? thats absurd. you don't sound like u have an in depth knowledge of the economy or the military as well. why are u here then? -
Been there, done that. Teachers? Rubbish. Are they not Human? Does the term "Teachers" give them complete authority and everything they say are correct? Do they not have their own views? This just shows that you haven't outgrown your period with teachers.Originally posted by asdfg2:EXCO, I strongly suggest open discussion with your teachers and your parents if you believe strongly in your opinions or what tripwire is saying. You are entitled to your views but it is important to talk to adults about such issues, more important than sex. -
I doubt you know the situation and the doings of palestines.Originally posted by asdfg2:I am not talking to kids with peashooters and who cannot even issue proper grammatical sentences or discuss issues in a mature way, much less economics.
Whether Palaestine deserves to exist or not is strictly your opinion. Palaestine does not deserve to exist..on what basis? Theoretically if Palaestine does not deserve to exist, then on what basis has Singapore to exist? -
Forget it. He seems like an "academic" to me. If its in the textbook, then it must be the way it is. Teachers and academics... what a joke... Wake up, this is not a classroom, the World is not your classroom, and I can tell you, by the time you finish school (I dun care what level you are at now), You can dump all your textbooks. They are irrelevant.Originally posted by tripwire:kuku... the real world is very different from your textbook one...
in the real world... complete information is impossible... additional information adds to cost... and potential overloading of information.
furthermore... opinions and valuations differs from one buyer to the next... based on the purchasers likes, situation, constraints, perception and .............
As long as the purchaser felt that he is getting the best available product admist all the tangible and intangibles, within all the information available and within the constraints of the system... the purchaser is deemed to have obtained the best value for money....
YOUR BRAIN STUCK IN THE TOILET ISIT? -
What you are saying is that is if the Palestine don't deserve to exist, Singapore doesn't deserve to exist as well. Do you see Singaporeans suicide bombing Malaysians? Do you see us shedding crocodile tears to the World to help stop someone from invading our land?Originally posted by asdfg2:Whether Palaestine deserves to exist or not is strictly your opinion. Palaestine does not deserve to exist..on what basis? Theoretically if Palaestine does not deserve to exist, then on what basis has Singapore to exist? -
academics don't talk like that. many of those i've met don't give a twat about whats in the textbook...Originally posted by EXCO:Forget it. He seems like an "academic" to me. If its in the textbook, then it must be the way it is. Teachers and academics... what a joke... Wake up, this is not a classroom, the World is not your classroom, and I can tell you, by the time you finish school (I dun care what level you are at now), You can dump all your textbooks. They are irrelevant.
its pretty obvious that facts pretty much speaks for themselves if u're a discerning reader with 2 bits of analytical skills.
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. nobody with a more sophisticated understanding of the issue at hand will take his bizarre reasoning seriously. -
here's another one to the resident "genius" , asdfg2:
read more instead of just passing off your ridiculous comments and unschooled logic as proof of "reasoning"... thinking for yourself is one thing; thinking coherently is quite another... we're not the deluded ones. YOU ARE. -
asdfg2, at no point of time did anyone equated the SAF as an aggressive military. Only as a "strong" military. A powerful military does not build an economy, and nobody ever said it did. (unless you're really into selling arms) An military that is strong serves to safeguard the country and protect the economy from foreign military threats. Its like a the security guard that prevents thefts in a condominium. Like the security guard, the military does not need to go around bossing people and threatening people to serve its purpose. It needs only to make its presence known. Yet when push comes to shove, it must be able to handle the situation accordingly. Of course, your arguement would be probably be, "why build an expeditionary force, when a purely defensive one is required." The answer has been simple all this time; It violates every textbook, rule, manual that teaches basic warfighting.Originally posted by asdfg2:The lack of intelligence is killing me here, so I had better speak slowly:
1) Did I say miltary hardware purchases is not part of miltary spending:
Your buddy is arguing that a strong and aggressive miltary creates a strong economy. Is that rational? give you a moment to think whether it is true. (I can give a full blown argument, complete with counterexamples but then I may be wasting my breath with irrational people). China is wary of Japan, because of wartime aggression in the past and China never had designs on Japan ever.
2) Israel of SEA?!! If Sg is ever like Israel, even for a day, Sg will dead or crippled. Sure we should occupy Johor now or in the future right, so that we aren't caught "turtling".
3) Just think of a war Sg's image projected by an aggressive force. Just think of Japan's image of an aggressive army and it's effect on ties with its neighbours.
As much as whoever it is is happy that I am not a defence advisor, Sg is glad that they have u ppl as diplomats or policy makers. Otherwise you ppl fall into a JI trap without a doubt.
And kudos to all the rugrats with their peashooters for not examining the need, cause and effect of war on Sg.
You can only win a battle by attacking. You defend only to stall time, regain strength and retake the advantage to attack. And when you attack, you keep on attacking and you don't stop. If we were to have a purely defensive military, we would have no ability to carry out actions that are needed to win the war.
Finally, I wish to disclaim something. I never did once equate Singapore as the Israel of SEA. Singapore is Singapore, Israel is Israel. We are just similar in terms of our situation. That is all.