All out to defame people critizising THE governement
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Originally posted by Atobe:
I'm sorry if my statement have been misunderstood by the people here.
The problem with being 'NEUTRAL' is that one has to sit on a 'FENCE', and it will be a painful process.
'Neutrality' is a position in itself - simply ''non-committal'' or ''uncommitted'' - and one has to ignore all positions from any sides.
Being neutral, one should not take position in any issues that will affect one's neutrality - no opinions can be offered that will change one's ''WHITE Neutral Color'' - to do so will be a betrayal to one's ''NEUTRAL POSITION''.
As much as it takes some will power to remain silent, it also require a strong clout to be able to fend off any violation to one's neutrality - as in the case of Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland during much of the 20th Century events that swept across Europe.
If a ''NEUTRAL'' position is preferred, no opinion need to be expressed.
It becomes pure nonsense to take shelter with the ''NEUTRAL'' title simply to deflect any strong counter criticism towards any opinions offered by the ''Neutralist''.
An opinion of any kind will simply require a deviation from a ''NEUTRAL'' stance in one form or another.
''Neutralist'' will simply take the benefits from whatever outcome of any situation, and will be the main retrograding cause towards any efforts to change the status quo with their publicly declared ''non-committal NEUTRAL'' stance; and will ''MORE OFTEN THAN NOT'' maintain the ''status quo'' out of [b]Self- Interest.
Can ''NEUTRALS'' be trusted ?
[/b]
When I said I'm NEUTRAL, it simply means that I judge each issue, policy from the Govt or Views of other on their own MERITS.
I don't just goes against an issue just because it's from the Govt. Or agree to another issue just because it's from the Govt too. We have too many here who will just be against any issue or policy just because its from the Govt or Link to the Govt. That's why i see myself as a NEUTRAL. -
The problem when people unintentionally hit them on the weakness of their policies , they ask you for nric numbers.Originally posted by robertteh:Yes, agreed to your post. It has been an unequal relation all these past 40 plus years with government ministers and their rookies being able to slam and defame any one by calling them names like whiners, quitters, hinese chauvanese, racists, liars etc without proof or evidence but at the slightest they would start a civil defamation against anyone without solid evidence.
It is about time people wake up and not to be taken for granted and begin to ask for fair and accountable system of governance.
To transform the government from autocracy and self-centredness the first agenda of the people is to put up proposal to change the constitution. Only throuh the constitution finally will the people have sufficient power to check on wrong doing or abuse of power.
What kind of system is this. Big fish eats small fishes?
The opposition parties I look at , they survive because it is a farce to show that Singapore is a democratic country. When any of the opposition trips on something, you see defamation suits coming up on every single opportunity. Chee himself is no talented politician - he is an idiot but they sure made a good example of him of what they can do to others and because they can.
Good opposers tend to find themselves tettering on a tightrope and I think good opposers like LTK have been very careful so far. But when they trip .....the same fate awaits them.
So what choice do people with opposing views do? They either migrate or risk having everything they worked for destroyed.
One perfect example of the consequences of having a nanny state govt , look at the bloody taxi forum post - something not working - some sheep brain will call for the govt to fix it. Well taxis are important but why not highlight to tourists that there is an option of public transport since Singapore's public transportation is actually good compared to the crap ones I see in Australia? Hawker centers raise food prices - and some sheep brains complain to the govt to control the prices. Meh .....go somewhere else and eat or cook stuff yourself since it is cheaper to do so. -
Dear hloc, neutral meaning to say you look at the pros and cons of every issue?
Care to share your views on
1) Eldershield
2) high HDB prices eating into retirement and
3) the proposed CPF withdrawal age increase? -
no disagreement with you. Don't get me wrong, I never agree that quitters should be labelled on all who migrated. I have many friends who migrated to Canada and australia, we are in contact and knowing their circumstances, they were never quitters, one or two good riddance, many are losses to Singapore.Originally posted by fymk:For me , personally, I come into threads and have a look. I don't believe in a top down approach that the government has taken.
Years ago when I was teenager, Singapore was number 1 in my head , PAP was a good government. Then cracks appear when I started asking an MP questions about foreign talents and what's not , I got asked for my nric in a forum that should be one where people unload their ideas and opinions to inform the rulers of what grassroots wanted to see.
After I went abroad for my study, Singapore was the safest country but at what price? I see people protesting peacefully because they don't agree with something. Albeit there are often emotions running high and protesters can get carried away but they provide me with a perspective that not everyone thinks the same. And their government is not silencing their right to voice vociferously against the policies unless they are threatening the security of the public.
I came back to Singapore only to find myself with a degree of disillusion. Scholars paid higher than commoners even though they have the same type of degree as I. Being told by administrators of a large hospital in Singapore that I won't be able to make it anywhere because I don't want to work for them anymore. And then having a friend being told she cannot go for a masters that she had saved money for , and they did not need to pay a cent. But because she has "no leadership quality" in their eyes, she can't have the year of nopay study leave.
Working and around my neighbourhood, I see the plight of poor people yet I see our leaders paying themselves highly when the money could be better spent on helping the disadvantaged. Then you have the foreign talents which are really no better than our local talents.
That did it in for me. There was no way I can stay in a place which only paid lipservice to its citizens about constant upgrading yet did not allow capable people because they fear some sort of takeover on their jobs or something. Opting to take in third class foreigners in favor of well trained Singaporeans . Paying themselves so highly without regulation or input from the people. That is really too much.
My own government policies did not give me an option to stay on. I came back for 2.5 years of service - wasted years when I should have got out. Then the part about quitting the country - well I think the government should think on the factors that made people quitters rather than to label them.
Australia choose to adopt me because they lack people with my skills and I am grateful to Australia for that - a mutual benefit. It is not about what my country can do for me but what I can do for my country ....well my country did not do anything for me and I came back and wasted my life in it . To tell the truth , I still feel damn sore that Australia choose to nurture me than my own country.
The way I see it , I am better off just coming back to Singapore and contribute to its economy by being a tourist in my homeland.
I come to this forum to hear and learn something I do not read in the papers or hear in my daily encountering. any info, opinions or comments that went through some brains before posting received much of my attention, regardless of how radical that may be.
What the real oppositions out there need are some true stories, feelings and analysis about the policies, and more people, especially young ones, coming forward to take a stand. -
So doesn't this say something about the kind of government and counrty we all live under and in?Originally posted by fymk:The problem when people unintentionally hit them on the weakness of their policies , they ask you for nric numbers.
The opposition parties I look at , they survive because it is a farce to show that Singapore is a democratic country. When any of the opposition trips on something, you see defamation suits coming up on every single opportunity. Chee himself is no talented politician - he is an idiot but they sure made a good example of him of what they can do to others and because they can.
Good opposers tend to find themselves tettering on a tightrope and I think good opposers like LTK have been very careful so far. But when they trip .....the same fate awaits them.
So what choice do people with opposing views do? They either migrate or risk having everything they worked for destroyed.
Democratic???
... hardly even close... -
LTK and SL are doing the right thing.Originally posted by fymk:Good opposers tend to find themselves tettering on a tightrope and I think good opposers like LTK have been very careful so far. But when they trip .....the same fate awaits them.
Hope JBJ has learnt. I'm awaiting good news. -
My friend , you are naive. I have the personal experience of taking a stand on something with a specific MP and in front of the whole forum , he got damn angry and demanded my NRIC number thru the microphone.Originally posted by sgdiehard:no disagreement with you. Don't get me wrong, I never agree that quitters should be labelled on all who migrated. I have many friends who migrated to Canada and australia, we are in contact and knowing their circumstances, they were never quitters, one or two good riddance, many are losses to Singapore.
I come to this forum to hear and learn something I do not read in the papers or hear in my daily encountering. any info, opinions or comments that went through some brains before posting received much of my attention, regardless of how radical that may be.
What the real oppositions out there need are some true stories, feelings and analysis about the policies, and more people, especially young ones, coming forward to take a stand.
Why? The only conclusion I came to was that obviously something I said plus a crowd clapping loudly at the opinions I expressed must have hit his nerve. That was a threat in my view to silence me . And of course being an idealistic person I was back then , I asked him if he wanted my address as well.
I know of persons who wanted to do good for the people and went to contest them and got into trouble with ISD. Look at Francis Seow - see what they could do to him? He was in favor until he started to say something and that got him exiled. If he kept quiet , he will still be attorney general or some minister in Singapore. -
actually i wanted to create a game called Gabrament
its a cross between monopoly and sim city
you get to work your way up the civil service armed with scholarships
the more dumb policies you make, the more people you made to suffer, the more your government intervene and eventually monopolise the entire economy, the more brownie points you will earn
your ultimate aim is to become Mighty Minister (MM)
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Name that MP.Originally posted by fymk:My friend , you are naive. I have the personal experience of taking a stand on something with a specific MP and in front of the whole forum , he got damn angry and demanded my NRIC number thru the microphone.
Why? The only conclusion I came to was that obviously something I said plus a crowd clapping loudly at the opinions I expressed must have hit his nerve. That was a threat in my view to silence me . And of course being an idealistic person I was back then , I asked him if he wanted my address as well. -
even MPs openly exposing the fact they would abuse the ISA to gain total subservience from the peopleOriginally posted by fymk:My friend , you are naive. I have the personal experience of taking a stand on something with a specific MP and in front of the whole forum , he got damn angry and demanded my NRIC number thru the microphone.
Why? The only conclusion I came to was that obviously something I said plus a crowd clapping loudly at the opinions I expressed must have hit his nerve. That was a threat in my view to silence me . And of course being an idealistic person I was back then , I asked him if he wanted my address as well.
sheesh -
Mr Chan Soo Sen - I think he retired but you should have seen his face ...all red and flustered hahahaha. WHAT IS UR IC NUMBER? In front of 60 plus people. So freaking funny.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Name that MP.
hahhahahhhahha
No hard feelings towards him , by his actions , he planted the idea that Singapore is perhaps not the place I should stay in and something good came out of it. That is why I never forget what happened so long ago. I owe it to him that I am in Australia. Thank you Mr Chan. -
Oh, that Joo Chiat MP? Still around.....Originally posted by fymk:Mr Chan Soo Sen - I think he retired but you should have seen his face ...all red and flustered hahahaha. WHAT IS UR IC NUMBER? In front of 60 plus people. So freaking funny.
hahhahahhhahha
No hard feelings towards him , by his actions , he planted the idea that Singapore is perhaps not the place I should stay in and something good came out of it.
He looks so genial on TV. Didn't expect such a defensive reaction.
Why didn't you ask him the relevance of your IC number to the discussion? -
Originally posted by hloc:
No need to apologise for your own sincere position.
I'm sorry if my statement have been misunderstood by the people here.
When I said [b]I'm NEUTRAL, it simply means that I judge each issue, policy from the Govt or Views of other on their own MERITS.
I don't just goes against an issue just because it's from the Govt. Or agree to another issue just because it's from the Govt too. We have too many here who will just be against any issue or policy just because its from the Govt or Link to the Govt. That's why i see myself as a NEUTRAL.[/b]
Each of us have an opinion in one way or another, with different shades of interests, and different colors of passion on any issues.
Neutrality is a fixed position in itself, and one should not violate this sincere, respected and very prvileged ''Title'' in a casual manner that you prefer to take.
If you view your position as one who will judge on issues ''OBJECTIVELY'' before making any public statement - it is not a ''NEUTRAL'' position as in ''political non-involvement'', similar to the 'neutral countries' mentioned in my last post.
Your position is one of being ''circumspectfully cautious'' and is to be respected, but hardly can you consider your position to be 'neutral'. -
He seemed very nice at first - ask us all to speak our minds.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Oh, that Joo Chiat MP? Still around.....
He looks so genial on TV. Didn't expect such a defensive reaction.
Why didn't you ask him the relevance of your IC number to the discussion?
Let me quote you what he said to us " young people should speak their minds, never mind if they didn't think it through first - good ideas can come out".
Obviously he hasn't met me yet until I spoke my mind. I already knew once the NRIC question came up , it meant trouble somehow. I didn't care so I asked him if he wanted my address as well since I appeared to be stewing in hot soup already.
I still got alot of respect for the other MP Yaacob Ibrahim. He actually came up to me after the forum and ask me what I think should be a solution ( I was cut off by Mr Chan). And I spoke rather frankly with him about what I thought should be done. Somehow something positive did happen later on for the issue I spoke on but it is to his credit if he had heard me and spoke up for it.
So I am not that all anti-PAP. I have alot of respect for some of the MIW because I know not all of them put themselves first. -
Hey that sounds interesting, why not you go ahead and produce one, perhaps playing this game might help us understand why the gov do things they way they do...Originally posted by laurence82:actually i wanted to create a game called Gabrament
its a cross between monopoly and sim city
you get to work your way up the civil service armed with scholarships
the more dumb policies you make, the more people you made to suffer, the more your government intervene and eventually monopolise the entire economy, the more brownie points you will earn
your ultimate aim is to become Mighty Minister (MM) 
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1) Haven't read about it yet.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Dear hloc, neutral meaning to say you look at the pros and cons of every issue?
Care to share your views on
1) Eldershield
2) high HDB prices eating into retirement and
3) the proposed CPF withdrawal age increase?
2) I brought my house at 116K, NOT planning to sell to make money. Therefore don't affect me soo much. But I know of ppl would keep on selling and buying house to get cash. Then now 'hang' because can't sell off their high price housing. This to me... is called Greed without Planning. Each and every S'porean are entitle to 2 times buying HDB with lower price. But Many have already used up entitlement during 'Hot price' time..... now too late lor.
Please plan carefully before buying and selling your HDB..... don't do it just beause the price is good. If u sell high, of course have to buy high. Then if the price drop a few years from now......
3) Long ago already given out hope on ever getting my CPF in lump sum. Read from the thead "Will the impact of new CPF rule affect u?". I already wrote in there. -
What issue was it about? Apologies if you have posted somewhere before.Originally posted by fymk:He seemed very nice at first - ask us all to speak our minds.
Let me quote you what he said to us " young people should speak their minds, never mind if they didn't think it through first - good ideas can come out".
Obviously he hasn't met me yet until I spoke my mind. I already knew once the NRIC question came up , it meant trouble somehow. I didn't care so I asked him if he wanted my address as well since I appeared to be stewing in hot soup already.
I still got alot of respect for the other MP Yaacob Ibrahim. He actually came up to me and ask me what I think should be a solution ( I was cut off by Mr Chan). And I spoke rather frankly with him about what I thought should be done. Somehow something positive did happen later on for the issue I spoke on but it is to his credit not mine if he had heard me and spoke up for it.
So I am not that all anti-PAP. I have alot of respect for some of the MIW because I know not all of them put themselves first. -
Was eons ago - nearly a decade old but it was towards the welfare of the disadvantaged especially the elderly and the financial implications of hospitalisation bills . Some don't even have medisave and the funds to help them - they have to go through alot of red tape back then.Originally posted by Rock^Star:What issue was it about? Apologies if you have posted somewhere before. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Sorry lah.... my ENGLAND not soo Powderful
No need to apologise for your own sincere position.
Each of us have an opinion in one way or another, with different shades of interests, and different colors of passion on any issues.
Neutrality is a fixed position in itself, and one should not violate this sincere, respected and very prvileged ''Title'' in a casual manner that you prefer to take.
If you view your position as one who will judge on issues ''OBJECTIVELY'' before making any public statement - it is not a ''NEUTRAL'' position as in [b]''political non-involvement'', similar to the 'neutral countries' mentioned in my last post.
Your position is one of being ''circumspectfully cautious'' and is to be respected, but hardly can you consider your position to be 'neutral'.
[/b] -
Yes, I believe there are some of them who aren't happy and are just waiting for the right time....Originally posted by fymk:He seemed very nice at first - ask us all to speak our minds.
Let me quote you what he said to us " young people should speak their minds, never mind if they didn't think it through first - good ideas can come out".
Obviously he hasn't met me yet until I spoke my mind. I already knew once the NRIC question came up , it meant trouble somehow. I didn't care so I asked him if he wanted my address as well since I appeared to be stewing in hot soup already.
I still got alot of respect for the other MP Yaacob Ibrahim. He actually came up to me after the forum and ask me what I think should be a solution ( I was cut off by Mr Chan). And I spoke rather frankly with him about what I thought should be done. Somehow something positive did happen later on for the issue I spoke on but it is to his credit if he had heard me and spoke up for it.
So I am not that all anti-PAP. I have alot of respect for some of the MIW because I know not all of them put themselves first.
In fact, right now, we are ALL just waiting....
Everyone's waiting....
Singaporens can't go on like this... more and more people are dying from stress & the pressure brought on by their self-serving policies, and dying in more ways then one.. -
Originally posted by hloc:
Oh yeah... Atobe's all about English Powder....!
[b]Sorry lah.... my ENGLAND not soo Powderful [/b]
I really wish I can write like he does..!!
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The way I see it , some of them may just be waiting for Lee to let go. There are some good men in MIW I will hate to see go because they are the ones who may well fight for progress in Singapore.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Yes, I believe there are some of them who aren't happy and are just waiting for the right time....
In fact, right now, we are ALL just waiting....
Everyone's waiting....
Singaporens can't go on like this... more and more people are dying from stress & the pressure brought on by their self-serving policies, and dying in more ways then one.. -
Yes, progress for Singapore's PEOPLE...Originally posted by fymk:The way I see it , some of them may just be waiting for Lee to let go. There are some good men in MIW I will hate to see go because they are the ones who may well fight for progress in Singapore.
Not just "proge$$" for the system and the policy makers and puppet masters... -
Don't think it will happen nowadays..... even MIW also scare of 'Bad Press' on the internet. Nowadays they are polite till the point of pain. But sadly nothing seems to be done too.Originally posted by fymk:Was eons ago - nearly a decade old but it was towards the welfare of the disadvantaged especially the elderly and the financial implications of hospitalisation bills . Some don't even have medisave and the funds to help them - they have to go through alot of red tape back then.
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The heart can not possibly remain neutral, but constantly takes part one way or the other. --Shaftesbury.
I'm taking a neutral stance here, I merely state a fact that this quote is by Shaftesbury.
Anyone who has an opinion of this quote is either for or against. One cannot give reasons and say that he's neutral.