All out to defame people critizising THE governement
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He's the chap that could not even clean up Joo Chiat, and should never have retained his MP seat in the last election.Originally posted by fymk:Mr Chan Soo Sen - I think he retired but you should have seen his face ...all red and flustered hahahaha. WHAT IS UR IC NUMBER? In front of 60 plus people. So freaking funny.
hahhahahhhahha
No hard feelings towards him , by his actions , he planted the idea that Singapore is perhaps not the place I should stay in and something good came out of it. That is why I never forget what happened so long ago. I owe it to him that I am in Australia. Thank you Mr Chan.
For every policy forum with CST in attendance, the crowd will always reserve a standing ovation for dear ol' Mr Chiam. -
I have to agree with you on that one.Originally posted by fymk:The way I see it , some of them may just be waiting for Lee to let go. There are some good men in MIW I will hate to see go because they are the ones who may well fight for progress in Singapore.
However, the PAP being run along Leninist lines, prevents a lot of them from voicing out.
It's either they jump camps, and well, we know what are the consequences. Loss of a lot of influence, but if they play their cards right, they might actually stand to gain.
Now it's a waiting game. I still stand by my belief that Singapore will evolve into a two-party system with a very on-the-ball shadow government in the future. -
my friend, you are naive, and very idealistic indeed. you think the PAP will change just because a few people stand up and speak against them?Originally posted by fymk:My friend , you are naive. I have the personal experience of taking a stand on something with a specific MP and in front of the whole forum , he got damn angry and demanded my NRIC number thru the microphone.
Why? The only conclusion I came to was that obviously something I said plus a crowd clapping loudly at the opinions I expressed must have hit his nerve. That was a threat in my view to silence me . And of course being an idealistic person I was back then , I asked him if he wanted my address as well.
I know of persons who wanted to do good for the people and went to contest them and got into trouble with ISD. Look at Francis Seow - see what they could do to him? He was in favor until he started to say something and that got him exiled. If he kept quiet , he will still be attorney general or some minister in Singapore.
How long did Mandala spend in jail before he changed the aparthied government? how much risks did Sun Yet Sen take before he toppled the qing dynasty? how many times was Deng Xiao Peng put down in disgrace before he finally arrested the gang of four and brought about a change in China? Even LKY, his route to change Singapore was not smooth, with the brits, the barisan socialists, the umno.
Your opponent is no easy meat, many are graduates from well known overseas universities, they have their track records, they have their supporters, and they know what is politics and what is power. If they can't persuade you, they coerce you, failing which they threaten you, and not necessarily in the same order.
Do you think they give a damn about what a young punk, fresh from U, trying to teach his father how to make love? You only met one MP, asking for your NRIC, you have already run to australia, if you meet LKY, he would tell you to meet in the colosseum, the battle ground, then you better run to the moon.
This is a big game, high stake, long battle, no guts cannot play, no patience cannot play, no strategies no plan also cannot play. Anyway, a known devil is better than an unknown politician, 4 millions Singapore will not stake their future on somebody who could not tackle an opposition MP.
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actually rags-to-riches can produce two outcomes.Originally posted by Rock^Star:That one who's full of OxyMorons?
He claims to come from a poor background but has little understanding of their plight in reality.
1. Helping those who were like them
2. Hatred of poverty and refusing to have anything to do with it. -
Originally posted by hloc:
Why apologies? It is not your fault that ENGLAND has become mere ''powder'' in Singapore's Life.
[b]Sorry lah.... my ENGLAND not soo Powderful [/b]
We should blame ''you know who'' for the ''wishy-washy'' education policies that swing from - suppressing 'chinese chauvinism' to learning the 'mother tongue', then to the familiarising of 'ethnic dialects', while at the same time pushing for the excellence with 'Queen's English'. -
or with one strong on the ball opposition. I haven't given up hope on this yet. May be after old lee is gone, or if this happened before that, it would accelerate his going...not cursing him, but this would be the case if he really "fang bu xia".Originally posted by LazerLordz:I still stand by my belief that Singapore will evolve into a two-party system with a very on-the-ball shadow government in the future.
It is really "playing the cards right", the ruling party just make the stake very high. many people want to win but dare not play, afraid to lose. Very typical. -
I didn't say he made me run to Australia. I said he gave me an idea to run out from Singapore. Please do not put words into my mouth.Originally posted by sgdiehard:my friend, you are naive, and very idealistic indeed. you think the PAP will change just because a few people stand up and speak against them?
How long did Mandala spend in jail before he changed the aparthied government? how much risks did Sun Yet Sen take before he toppled the qing dynasty? how many times was Deng Xiao Peng put down in disgrace before he finally arrested the gang of four and brought about a change in China? Even LKY, his route to change Singapore was not smooth, with the brits, the barisan socialists, the umno.
Your opponent is no easy meat, many are graduates from well known overseas universities, they have their track records, they have their supporters, and they know what is politics and what is power. If they can't persuade you, they coerce you, failing which they threaten you, and not necessarily in the same order.
Do you think they give a damn about what a young punk, fresh from U, trying to teach his father how to make love? You only met one MP, asking for your NRIC, you have already run to australia, if you meet LKY, he would tell you to meet in the colosseum, the battle ground, then you better run to the moon.
This is a big game, high stake, long battle, no guts cannot play, no patience cannot play, no strategies no plan also cannot play. Anyway, a known devil is better than an unknown politician, 4 millions Singapore will not stake their future on somebody who could not tackle an opposition MP.
As for your statement, I beg to differ : Look at other countries - they have 2 main opposing parties and I hardly see anyone get jailed or sued in USA /Australia for expressing opposing political views - heck they even write memoirs and sell it.
As for the examples about Mandala and Sun Yat Seng - They are fighting against tyrannical regimes - one racist and the other imperialistic. Deng Xiao Peng was the former leader of a regime - more maoist. So are you implying that Singapore is a tyrannical regime? This is amusing yet you claim so much good with Singapore's government. One can smell defamation in this.
As for LKY, I am too small for him to bother about. I can accept that fact - can you? -
Within less than 2 weeks , 2 ardent supporters of how great Singapore is with PAP made PAP look like a tyrannical regime (sghardie) and a heartless one ( Gazelle) .
Meh....they should go to the thread about defaming the government . Ain't the people complaining about the govt that is the problem, at least the people complaining know which side they are on - isn't it an laconic that the supporters can't seem to make up their minds about how great or terrible it all seems. -
you can speak what you like in USA/Australia, nobody will want your security number and nobody cares. We are in Singapore, we have a government that have been in power for a long time. They did many good things but there have been signs of complacency and are in urgent need to be checked by some responsible opposition, the country has grown rich and we need some checks before they start distributing the money among themselves, the country has gone into a new phase where we require a stable multi parties political system. How to make the change?Originally posted by fymk:I didn't say he made me run to Australia. I said he gave me an idea to run out from Singapore. Please do not put words into my mouth.
As for your statement, I beg to differ : Look at other countries - they have 2 main opposing parties and I hardly see anyone get jailed or sued in USA /Australia for expressing opposing political views - heck they even write memoirs and sell it.
As for the examples about Mandala and Sun Yat Seng - They are fighting against tyrannical regimes - one racist and the other imperialistic. Deng Xiao Peng was the former leader of a regime - more maoist. So are you implying that Singapore is a tyrannical regime? This is amusing yet you claim so much good with Singapore's government. One can smell defamation in this.
As for LKY, I am too small for him to bother about. I can accept that fact - can you?
Didn't anybody talk about the LEE Dynasty? Singapore not a democracy? what defamation? I am really scared leh.
We don't need LKY to be bothered with people who had run away, we need him to focus on people who are still here, especially the poor. -
ROFL they already started distributing money amongst themselves - MINISTER's PAY HIKE.Originally posted by sgdiehard:you can speak what you like in USA/Australia, nobody will want your security number and nobody cares. We are in Singapore, we have a government that have been in power for a long time. They did many good things but there have been signs of complacency and are in urgent need to be checked by some responsible opposition, the country has grown rich and we need some checks before they start distributing the money among themselves, the country has gone into a new phase where we require a stable multi parties political system. How to make the change?
Didn't anybody talk about the LEE Dynasty? Singapore not a democracy? what defamation? I am really scared leh.
We don't need LKY to be bothered with people who had run away, we need him to focus on people who are still here, especially the poor.
What are you talking about?
Basically if you still look towards to LKY who incidentally is getting very very old, instead of looking forward to other younger fresher faces who might bring in new ideas for progress, you , my friend, are living in the past.
Ever heard of stagnancy?....Same water all the time, stagnant water. -
Add what Sghardie said about distributing money amongst themselves- that statement can be looked upon and said oh well what about the minister's pay - oh wow Singapore is getting carved up.Originally posted by fymk:Within less than 2 weeks , 2 ardent supporters of how great Singapore is with PAP made PAP look like a tyrannical regime (sghardie) and a heartless one ( Gazelle) .
Meh....they should go to the thread about defaming the government . Ain't the people complaining about the govt that is the problem, at least the people complaining know which side they are on - isn't it an laconic that the supporters can't seem to make up their minds about how great or terrible it all seems.
Make up your mind. Don't go around throwing mud on your defence.\
Amusing. -
Hmm....so what exactly was it you asked that hit his raw nerve?Originally posted by fymk:Was eons ago - nearly a decade old but it was towards the welfare of the disadvantaged especially the elderly and the financial implications of hospitalisation bills . Some don't even have medisave and the funds to help them - they have to go through alot of red tape back then. -
I think I said something about charity beginning at home and they should not have gave Indonesia 5 billion dollars straight off in aide money because 1 billion at home could help alot of people . Can't really remember . I knew I got him damn fed up when I pointed out that a proposal idea he had in his head about singaporeans forfeiting the HDB subsidy in favor of 20k dollars was bullshit if someone had a sick elderly parent at home and that 20k can barely even pay for a deposit on a proper HDB flat.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Hmm....so what exactly was it you asked that hit his raw nerve? -
The 5 billion thing was never really proven, right?Originally posted by fymk:I think I said something about charity beginning at home and they should not have gave Indonesia 5 billion dollars straight off in aide money because 1 billion at home could help alot of people.
WOW but you have got "balls", for a female. -
Not if they splashed their 'generosity' all over the news about it . That is proof enough.Originally posted by Rock^Star:The 5 billion thing was never really proven, right?
WOW but you have got "balls", for a female.
Wasn't balls...was being a naive Singaporean asking questions which shouldn't be asked.
One typical behaviour of most politicians is that when they cannot answer your questions, they try to get around it . If you keep pounding them for a straight answer, they either try to get you off it by saying that they will check it or they intimidate you into shutting up. I had my eye on the ball ...and he tried the latter on me.
Good training tho , very hard to get me off the ball - that is why I can survive in my work enviroment. I only accept a yes no answer or we will check it up reply , nothing else. If a person said to check it up , they are given a time frame and I will come back to them. That is why some of my colleagues let me do the pestering. -
CSS is a graduate of Oxford (UK) and Stanford (US). However academic he is, he still could not handle the heat of a simple question.Originally posted by fymk:Not if they splashed their 'generosity' all over the news about it . That is proof enough.
Wasn't balls...was being a naive Singaporean asking questions which shouldn't be asked.
One typical behaviour of most politicians is that when they cannot answer your questions, they try to get around it . If you keep pounding them for a straight answer, they either try to get you off it by saying that they will check it or they intimidate you into shutting up. I had my eye on the ball ...and he tried the latter on me.
Perhaps this is a reason why Singapore has not seen live TV political debates for a long long time.
Most of them would be shaking in their boots. I can't wait to see that happen -
You should see the Australian Federal Parliament at work if you ever drop by Canberra. There is a special booking for it . The politicians on both sides are no hold bars on diplomatic verbal assaults - each got ammunition to fire off from statistics to their electorate writting letters to them ....damn shiok.Originally posted by Rock^Star:CSS is a graduate of Oxford (UK) and Stanford (US). However academic he is, he still could not handle the heat of a simple question.
Perhaps this is a reason why Singapore has not seen live TV political debates for a long long time.
Most of them would be shaking in their boots. I can't wait to see that happen
if not, there is internet live streaming at http://webcast.aph.gov.au/livebroadcasting/ ....you can watch the Australian federal parlimentarians at debate on certain days. -
That's what parliamentary proceedings are about, right? To debate on tricky issues at hand and come up with viable solutions. Ours is a joke, debating for debate's sake.....especially the minister's salary. I feel ashamed of it.Originally posted by fymk:You should see the Australian Federal Parliament at work if you ever drop by Canberra. There is a special booking for it . The politicians on both sides are no hold bars on diplomatic verbal assaults - each got ammunition to fire off from statistics to their electorate writting letters to them ....damn shiok.
LHL once asked on TV, "You want our parliament to be like Taiwan?....where the TV programmes make a comedy out of politicians."
If it makes the country better and the citizens' lives better, so be it. I don't mind seeing LTK throw a pizza that lands on LHL's face, literally speaking. -
They like to compare countries which have quaint systems of parliamentary proceedings instead of looking at other countries that don't.Originally posted by Rock^Star:That's what parliamentary proceedings are about, right? To debate on tricky issues at hand and come up with viable solutions. Ours is a joke, debating for debate's sake.....especially the minister's salary. I feel ashamed of it.
LHL once asked on TV, "You want our parliament to be like Taiwan?....where the TV programmes make a comedy out of politicians."
If it makes the country better and the citizens' lives better, so be it. I don't mind seeing LTK throw a pizza that lands on LHL's face, literally speaking.
Australian Federal Parliament is quite orderly except sometimes something out of favor comes in and you hear the BoooOOoooOs from backbenchers.
The American system is also somewhat orderly.
Since Singapore wants world class in everything - how come they don't compare American or Australian parliamentary sittings but choose to compare to Taiwan's odd lil parlimentary setting. As far as I know when you want to go up in standard, you always compare to the better settings. -
hell even american tv shows makes fun of their president and politicians..but we dun see Bush running around suing everyone off their pants do we? we dun see people in america laughing their politicians off or not taking them seriously do we?Originally posted by Rock^Star:That's what parliamentary proceedings are about, right? To debate on tricky issues at hand and come up with viable solutions. Ours is a joke, debating for debate's sake.....especially the minister's salary. I feel ashamed of it.
LHL once asked on TV, "You want our parliament to be like Taiwan?....where the TV programmes make a comedy out of politicians."
If it makes the country better and the citizens' lives better, so be it. I don't mind seeing LTK throw a pizza that lands on LHL's face, literally speaking. 
we do see politicians arguing in the south korean politics and even in Japan, politicians engage in heated arguments between the left and right wing parties..and a scuffle every now and then but they aren't doing so bad are they not? -
Japan and USA have had their govts change hands countless times and yet, they are the world's superpowers.Originally posted by 4getmenot:hell even american tv shows makes fun of their president and politicians..but we dun see Bush running around suing everyone off their pants do we? we dun see people in america laughing their politicians off or not taking them seriously do we?
we do see politicians arguing in the south korean politics and even in Japan, politicians engage in heated arguments between the left and right wing parties..and a scuffle every now and then but they aren't doing so bad are they not?
Now, look at Singapore. We have got the PAP telling us every election that the opposition cannot do the work that they do.
If they (PAP) don't try, they won't know, right? -
This type of government is self-centred, and working to serve its own narrow party interest and not the people's interest.
It is adversarial, confrontational, legalistic using all the laws and regulations to control and suppress people with different views about how the government should be run.
If it is working for the people, it should be bringing about the greatest benefits for the greatest number, and not having to justify and explain away problems with excuses and denials all the time.
If it is working for the citizens' interest, we will not be seeing so many law suits flying against the oppositions for speaking up on their shortcomings in the course of electioneering for they with some common sense (no need for great talent) will be able to see that oppositions are just like them the government merely speaking up for the people too and representing the people good or bad.
As leaders they must have the leadership quality of being able to explain their policies with leadership by examples or commiseration against unfair criticisms even if they are not true instead of regarding these criticism as defamation as this is part of part and parcel of being government or leaders. -
When I saw PM Lee's name on the front page of the ST today... he was talking about Dengue getting worse... but all I could think of was that this is the guy that gave himself, his father and possibly his wife a pay increase on top of their million dollars salaries with public money... *sighs*
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That is 'OLD' News already lah...... move on to something new.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:When I saw PM Lee's name on the front page of the ST today... he was talking about Dengue getting worse... but all I could think of was that this is the guy that gave himself, his father and possibly his wife a pay increase on top of their million dollars salaries with public money... *sighs* -
By product of such gahmen is repressed people. Sad!!Originally posted by robertteh:This type of government is self-centred, and working to serve its own narrow party interest and not the people's interest.
It is adversarial, confrontational, legalistic using all the laws and regulations to control and suppress people with different views about how the government should be run.
If it is working for the people, it should be bringing about the greatest benefits for the greatest number, and not having to justify and explain away problems with excuses and denials all the time.
If it is working for the citizens' interest, we will not be seeing so many law suits flying against the oppositions for speaking up on their shortcomings in the course of electioneering for they with some common sense (no need for great talent) will be able to see that oppositions are just like them the government merely speaking up for the people too and representing the people good or bad.
As leaders they must have the leadership quality of being able to explain their policies with leadership by examples or commiseration against unfair criticisms even if they are not true instead of regarding these criticism as defamation as this is part of part and parcel of being government or leaders.
So those who say that people defame gahmen, let them continue to say what they want. We are grown up we have our own mind and exercise the good sense of judgement. So their words won't create any effect to me at all!!! It is more of a misuse or abuse of the word "defame" by these insensitive people.