Underhand tactics used in sgforums
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The pro-govt supporters can continue to delude themselves, but as I said, many of my friends lost hope for Singapore, the day the ministers raised their pay. That one single move destroyed all the credit the past PAP people did, as it serves to show that this batch of leaders are self-serving, and materialistic.Originally posted by Zelphon:Hi to all,
I have been reading a lot of anti-govt posts and even some articles posted by CSJ.
Personally, I do agree that I am beginning to be influenced by all the anti-PAP sentiments.
I do not wish to comment abt anyone but for me, after witnessing the stark difference in PAP's polices made before and after the General Election; after listening to LHL's speech at National Rally; after reading all the articles and the big hoo-haa abt AMK MP Wee Siew Kim's daughter abt Mr Derek's Wee plight; after looking at the ridiculous pay increase in Ministerial salary; after the recent article in Today's abt some Sitoh guy who lost his sit to Cham See Tong and his refusal to meet the residents after his defeat, etc...
I am beginning to feel that Singapore is becoming more like a corporation rather than a country. Seems to me that Money is more important than a sense of public service. Data and data have been published to show that the economy is doing well but not much is being shown to highlight the plight of the poor and aged who helped build singapore to what it is today.
Best of all, the poor is being used as an excuse to raise more taxes under the pretence to help them. To me, raising the GST to help the poor is a riduculous notion.
With regards to education, it is sad to say that our govt is providing free education to bright China students and hope that these people will continue to serve Singapore after their university graduation. The fact is that many of these people fled back to China after their graduation from local universities and did not stay to contribute to Singapore. Personally, I do hear a lot of these stories from my PRC friends in NTU. While the locals are stranded in debts for local university education, the foreigners like these PRC students gets to enjoy free education sponsored by the locals taxpayer's money. I often wonder why the government do not wish to invest in our local people.
As for the cost of living, Singapore has crept up to be the 14th most expensive city to live in. I wonder how that news is gonna affect the urban poor that is increasing in proportion each day. After spending 6 mths in Shanghai, China as well as 1 and a half month in Tucson, USA, I realised that the cost of living in these 2 cities are comparatively lower than Singapore. For Shanghai's case, assuming that I am drawing a local salary, the proportion of my income spent on food is lower than that in Singapore. Same case for USA. What does that mean in the long term? For me, it means that I can get to save more proportion of my income in the long run in these places rather than in Singapore. No wonder there is rampant talk about the erosion of savings in Singapore.
I do not know much details about the many govt policies made, nor do I really care to know who my MPs are. But the one thing I am beginning to realise is that our govt has lost their sense of public service and sad to say, one day I may really migrate to other countries for the sake of survival.
You would think that the top talents are not affected by this, but I was surprised to find many of my friends from Biomedical, IT, Engineering, Accounting (many of these who have obtained scholarships and have completed their bonds), etc losing all respect for the govt, and planning an exodus from this place. -
The old and aged are those who helped Singapore to what it is today, and there are many forumers here who support PAP who do not realise they are ungrateful and selfish people when they do not even consider the plight of these old people (who are doing dish-washing, cleaning, etc work today)Originally posted by Originally posted by Zelphon:Data and data have been published to show that the economy is doing well but not much is being shown to highlight the plight of the poor and aged who helped build singapore to what it is today.
Singapore WAS NOT built by LKY only
Singapore WAS built by every Singaporean who toiled hard during those times
and look what is happening to them now -
This sentence touched a soft spot in me... it seems like to them, all the credit go to themselves and other people are for exploitation...Originally posted by Zelphon:Data and data have been published to show that the economy is doing well but not much is being shown to highlight the plight of the poor and aged who helped build singapore to what it is today.Originally posted by soul_rage:The old and aged are those who helped Singapore to what it is today, and there are many forumers here who support PAP who do not realise they are ungrateful and selfish people when they do not even consider the plight of these old people (who are doing dish-washing, cleaning, etc work today)
Singapore WAS NOT built by LKY only
Singapore WAS built by every Singaporean who toiled hard during those times
and look what is happening to them now
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we were promised good life 40 years ago if we work hard for it
so what happened to these old people who actually had worked hard?
why are there increasing number of senior citizens begging, searching bins for used cans, work in Macdonalds etc..?
and the increasing plight of victims of poverty, homelessness and diseases that generate numerous charity shows?
its a sign which the government is clearly ignoring -
tok so much post your real name and job here lahOriginally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Are you an absolute retard, so sorely lacking in intelligence that you have to actually post something so lame, that even a real monkey can do better?
I have quite frankly, no time to banter words with fools.
farking clone -
Hmm well, I think that there are loyal ppl overseas but there are many that aint too. A good examples are our ancestors coming from china and their descendant dont really give a hoot about China now.Originally posted by soul_rage:Hi Idiot (this is not me calling you, its you yourself that gave yourself this label):
China citizens are all over the world, globally distributed, but they are ready to go back to help the mainland should something serious happen. Americans are all over the world, but they are also ready to go back to help US should something happen. Are you implying with the above that you think the americans and chinese living abroad are all hypocrites?
Conversely, I want to ask you, are all Singaporeans who remain in singapore noble people, or are there hypocrites amongst us?
I seemed to recall you would not hesitate to steal from those that are not in Singapore. Is this not a sign of hypocrisy as well, pretending to be a noble Singaporean but having thoughts of evil?
Your ignorance and stupidity irks us as well
However if u notice how the Jews teach their children, u probably realized they are very patriotic to their ppl and race.
In summary, I think it is more important how strong those oversea sporean have their ties with spore and how they teach their children so that the tie remain strong. It is unfair to say ALL who migrate are "quitters" and not quite correct to say citizens like PRC and Americans are that loyal to their country despite they have migrated. -
The point I wish to make, is that USA and China have a nationalistic spirit, that I feel is generally lacking in the majority of our people. This nationalistic spirit is the one that can propel many to go back to their motherland to help it in times of crisis.Originally posted by morbid4ever:Hmm well, I think that there are loyal ppl overseas but there are many that aint too. A good examples are our ancestors coming from china and their descendant dont really give a hoot about China now.
However if u notice how the Jews teach their children, u probably realized they are very patriotic to their ppl and race.
In summary, I think it is more important how strong those oversea sporean have their ties with spore and how they teach their children so that the tie remain strong. It is unfair to say ALL who migrate are "quitters" and not quite correct to say citizens like PRC and Americans are that loyal to their country despite they have migrated.
Why the lack of spirit? Coz Singapore is run too much like a corporation. It causes many people to become detached from the country. By removing Singaporeans' sense of belonging through the explicit limiting of their ability to vote in elections, and the lack of a genuine willingness to listen to the citizens, the PAP, in effect, is the one responsible for the current state of affairs today. -
Really? If it is true of what you said above, then those residents in the constituency with Lui as MP, shall not trust him fully. oops, better tell my relatives about it as some of them stay there.Originally posted by robertteh:PM Lee has directed Minister Lui Tuck Yew to send counter-insurgency (treating ordinary citizens who have views, suggestions and feedbacks on government policies as enemies) to counter postings of forumers at sgforums and other forums.
He has prohibited newspapers from engaging in crusading journalism for whatever it means.
He has announced to the people he wanted to build an inclusive cosmopolitan society.
Now let us review his performance. Lately there are many counter-insurgency agents who issued threats to sue forumers for replying to their own threats and intimidating remarks and provocations.
Is PM Lee still interested in building an inclusive cosmopolitan society and is he being coherent in his policies so far to build an inclusive and cosmopolitan society?
Is he changing his mind now by sending counter-insurgency cyber agents to forums? Is he serious in engaging the forumers in robust arguments to debunk them (if wrong) or is his objective to use his political power to intimidate them with libel suits with forumers having no right whatever to reply even to his own cyber-agents' extremely uncalled for provocation like calling them whiners and quitters?
PM Lee has still not made any clarification what were his objectives in governing Singapore over the past 3 years. Without such clarifications, will not the people be getting confused and the whole country might just soon plunge into chaos?
If Lee hsien loong is serving the nation with sincerity, wholeheartedly he need not resort to such a way. Is he fearful? He has no calibre to be a PM, doubt he will list his objectives in governing Singapore over the past 3 years. Remember, he has his papa and SM Goh to help him, whatever happen and whatever it is he has someone to fall back on !!! He is just a very lucky man!!! If he is not lucky he will not be the PM. It is pure luck!! -
Probably that someone who started the thread on “All out to defame our government …” wants to talk against people who are not happy with the “pay and pay” and to stop people from voicing negative comments, remarks, frustrations about the “pay and pay”. Boot licking the ruling party, suck up to them!!
Perhaps someone should start a thread that reads “Come stop angkat the elites “pay and pay”.
Appreciate your thread title and motive in starting this thread to expose those people. -
wa , resort to pay for citizenship!!! Pathetic! Doing this at the expense of the people of singapore who are born and bred here!!! People, because we have lee hsien loong as our PM and this explains it!!! SM Goh may not be perfect, but he did not resort to this at the expense of the people of Singapore when he was our PM. SM Goh compared with lee hsien loong, is a more compassionate, kind PM. Just have to say, we are unlucky to have lee hsien loong as PM and on the contrary he is damn lucky to become the PM!Originally posted by robertteh:Incentives like low rentals, scholarships, tax havens were given to many China and other nationals to entice them to become PR which were not available to locals. These are free monies. Some China nationals use these free offers as stepping stones to migrate to US and Canada. Only one in five of these are interested to take up citizenship. They take away our citizens' jobs as many poly and skilled locals are still not employed although they could fill the jobs given to these foreigners.
We are not short of skilled workers or talents and the assumptions made by MOM that we are short have not been proven. Our own poly and other skilled workers can create jobs as well but this fact was conveniently forgotten in order to give themselves free hand all the time to do as they like to pretend success. -
Originally posted by soul_rage:why do you need spoonfeeding when all you need to do is to a search on the following people:
- Gazelle
- oxford mushroom
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-1Originally posted by fymk:I am one of those who choose to move away. I come in and post . I got a long list of complaints because my relatives and friends are in Singapore and some can't leave. Some of them can't openly complain. I once thought Singapore was the world until I finally understand the context of it.
I am not about to let the government tell people not to migrate because they will be "treated like second class" citizens or call them "quitters". Well excuse me , why is Singapore even taking in foreign quitters if the same reasoning applies?
If Singapore needs my help one day , I will come back, not for government's sake but because it is still my homeland and I still have friends and family there.
People who irk me are ones who choose to bash a foreign country when they don't even live there.
If you cannot accept that there needs to be improvements made ,that's just too bad. If you enjoy paying Ministers' millions in salary just because of some shitty reason about "global competition" , good for you but I don't think my friends or family back home like that. They complain about it to me so many times.
If you don't want to accept the views of overseas Singaporeans who lived out of the bubble called Singapore, it is your perogative. I still got a stake in Singapore until my entire family pulls their roots from it plus the whole of their history there ...which is next to impossible . My father still reminscences about a "developing" Singapore he lived in after the Japanese War , where people were more about the community - poor but happy.
Let me quote you James A Baldwin
"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually"
And apply that to why overseas Singaporeans choose to criticise Singapore. -
++++++1Originally posted by sgdiehard:wuo ho ho ho.....it is your choice to move, nobody sent dogs to chase you away, you come in and post anything you like, or else there would be no freedom of speech. All Singaporeans know we are too small, just a little red dot, here in Singapore the east meet the west, and we know how big and complicated the world can be out there, who would have thought that Singapore is the world??
The government called you guys "quitters" but did they ever ask you not to migrate? did you not just buy a ticket and fly to wherever you want. How long you stay overseas is not decided by Singapore but the host country, no? so excuse me, if people are free to go out, why should others be prohibited from coming in?
Surely Singapore needs to improve, we know that, and what was good in the past may not be good now, so not only do we need to improve, we need to improve all the time. Do we agree with the high salary for the ministers, NO, do we agree with the changing of the CPF rules, NO, ....you can list as many as you like and don't think that Singaporeans do not know the issues or do not accept them as problem. Criticise as much as you like, but don't think what you are saying are anything new. Honestly, you people can be naive, but we are not ignorant. Our problem is that each see different ways to tackle the issues. In our opinion, migrating is not one of the ways. We prefer people who stay together and face the issues together.
Singapore a bubble ready to burst? you think so, and this is what the PAP wants us to believe, just that their version is "without PAP, Singapore will burst like a bubble". Fat hope, singapore will stay as a country, with or without PAP, with or without those who migrated.
Please cut off all these hypocricies about coming back to Singapore to help when the country needs you. If you are so bitter about Singapore, if you see Singapore is nothing but a bubble that will burst anytime, and yet you choose to leave, even leaving behind friends and relative who can't leave, who would believe you would come back and help when the country is in trouble? If you are ready to pull your roots plus all the history from Singapore, how can Singapore be your 'homeland'??
You and your family decide what you want to do, you are free to stay, you are free to go, but your hypocricy really irk!!
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PM Lee has just last year before IMF meeting advised citizens to put up 4 million smiles and go to the extra mile to give good service to their customers.Originally posted by robertteh:Do we need to get personal by naming any more? Just post our views and opinions on government policies as this is what speakers' corner is for anyway. If criticisms are not substantiated by facts or logics the government ministers may ignore them.
If they are substantiated by logics and rationale even if not well written or researched the ministers should go to the extra mile to give us citizens a good service by taking all necessary actions and not engage in calling us names through their countering agents for this kind of attitude is immature and wrong.
PM Lee has just last year before IMF meeting advised citizens to put up 4 million smiles and go to the extra mile to give good service to their customers. Are ministers citizens' paid servants ? If do we citizens have to answer to provocations or questions of their counter-agents here challenging us with threats of libel suits.
It is as simple as this so I do not need to answer why we citizens are criticizing the government as it is their jobs to answer to any problems or issues raised. They are not paid millions to do nothing or just to challenge why citizens are querying them.
With the above-stated larger perspective of government we as citizens would continue to expect ministers to conduct themselves with proper decorum like servants and not lord over us. So do I have to answer your question who have threatened forumers with threats of defamation do I ?
To all forumers I advise them to continue to criticise the government if it does not perform up to expectations and not be afraid of threats of defamation?
lee hsien loong's way - push the button you will get what you want, ha ha ha!!!! He is a classic good eg of someone born will a silver spoon in his mouth! Open mouth, you will get your food! ha ha! That's why he makes it so difficult for people to respect him. -
hahahaOriginally posted by soul_rage:Hi Idiot (this is not me calling you, its you yourself that gave yourself this label):
China citizens are all over the world, globally distributed, but they are ready to go back to help the mainland should something serious happen. Americans are all over the world, but they are also ready to go back to help US should something happen. Are you implying with the above that you think the americans and chinese living abroad are all hypocrites?
Conversely, I want to ask you, are all Singaporeans who remain in singapore noble people, or are there hypocrites amongst us?
I seemed to recall you would not hesitate to steal from those that are not in Singapore. Is this not a sign of hypocrisy as well, pretending to be a noble Singaporean but having thoughts of evil?
Your ignorance and stupidity irks us as well , well said, I like it! -
obvioulsy you dont know that soul_rage is singapore TOP NOTCH TALENT huh?Originally posted by sgdiehard:YOu again, don't waste my time. go get yourself a life.
There are many Singaporean living overseas, but they remain Singaporean, they have not migrated. Many Chinese citizens all over the world have not migrated, they would go back and support PRC or ROC, those who migrated would only help their relatives and friends who remain there. You think the american chinese would help PRC?
You can't even make the difference between those who migrate and those who stay overseas, you bloody pathetic. get your mind clear before you come up here and spill rubbish.
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quote:
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Originally posted by crazy monkey:
when you point a finger at someone, you point four fingers to yourself
fingolfin, it is purely a display of ugliness from the person and how mature/immature the person is!!Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Are you an absolute retard, so sorely lacking in intelligence that you have to actually post something so lame, that even a real monkey can do better?
I have quite frankly, no time to banter words with fools. -
here comes the joker who boasted about:Originally posted by Gazelle:obvioulsy you dont know that soul_rage is singapore TOP NOTCH TALENT huh?
1) getting a bj from a woman
2) smelling a woman's panties
3) fantasize he ever had an ONS with a TCS actress
now he is resorting to useless and needless posts (-1, +1), coz he is in total self delusion.
in a relative sense, if you are the one we are compared to, then ALL OF US HERE (including sgdiehard, oxford mushroom and all other pro-govt supporters) are TOP NOTCH TALENT
At least sgdiehard and oxford mushroom make sensible posts, (even though I do not agree with them). You? -
yes, it is obvious the country is run like acorporation. WE hear someone talks about branding!!! PAP is a brand!!! Their top priority is to make $$$$ instead of serving the nation. A good politican will not place making $$$ as the top priority. We are just very unlucky to have such ruling party to rule our country!!Originally posted by Zelphon:Hi to all,
I have been reading a lot of anti-govt posts and even some articles posted by CSJ.
Personally, I do agree that I am beginning to be influenced by all the anti-PAP sentiments.
I do not wish to comment abt anyone but for me, after witnessing the stark difference in PAP's polices made before and after the General Election; after listening to LHL's speech at National Rally; after reading all the articles and the big hoo-haa abt AMK MP Wee Siew Kim's daughter abt Mr Derek's Wee plight; after looking at the ridiculous pay increase in Ministerial salary; after the recent article in Today's abt some Sitoh guy who lost his sit to Cham See Tong and his refusal to meet the residents after his defeat, etc...
I am beginning to feel that Singapore is becoming more like a corporation rather than a country. Seems to me that Money is more important than a sense of public service. Data and data have been published to show that the economy is doing well but not much is being shown to highlight the plight of the poor and aged who helped build singapore to what it is today.
Best of all, the poor is being used as an excuse to raise more taxes under the pretence to help them. To me, raising the GST to help the poor is a riduculous notion.
With regards to education, it is sad to say that our govt is providing free education to bright China students and hope that these people will continue to serve Singapore after their university graduation. The fact is that many of these people fled back to China after their graduation from local universities and did not stay to contribute to Singapore. Personally, I do hear a lot of these stories from my PRC friends in NTU. While the locals are stranded in debts for local university education, the foreigners like these PRC students gets to enjoy free education sponsored by the locals taxpayer's money. I often wonder why the government do not wish to invest in our local people.
As for the cost of living, Singapore has crept up to be the 14th most expensive city to live in. I wonder how that news is gonna affect the urban poor that is increasing in proportion each day. After spending 6 mths in Shanghai, China as well as 1 and a half month in Tucson, USA, I realised that the cost of living in these 2 cities are comparatively lower than Singapore. For Shanghai's case, assuming that I am drawing a local salary, the proportion of my income spent on food is lower than that in Singapore. Same case for USA. What does that mean in the long term? For me, it means that I can get to save more proportion of my income in the long run in these places rather than in Singapore. No wonder there is rampant talk about the erosion of savings in Singapore.
I do not know much details about the many govt policies made, nor do I really care to know who my MPs are. But the one thing I am beginning to realise is that our govt has lost their sense of public service and sad to say, one day I may really migrate to other countries for the sake of survival.
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I have a question, do you come here to quarrel?Originally posted by crazy monkey:tok so much post your real name and job here lah
farking clone -
Yeah whatever, fool.Originally posted by crazy monkey:tok so much post your real name and job here lah
farking clone
A monkey on the forum, a monkey and idiot and retard in real life. -
absolutely true!!Originally posted by soul_rage:The point I wish to make, is that USA and China have a nationalistic spirit, that I feel is generally lacking in the majority of our people. This nationalistic spirit is the one that can propel many to go back to their motherland to help it in times of crisis.
Why the lack of spirit? Coz Singapore is run too much like a corporation. It causes many people to become detached from the country. By removing Singaporeans' sense of belonging through the explicit limiting of their ability to vote in elections, and the lack of a genuine willingness to listen to the citizens, the PAP, in effect, is the one responsible for the current state of affairs today. -
Oh definitely. Apparently, hypocrisy gels well with him.Originally posted by rane:I have a question, do you come here to quarrel? -
Soul_RageOriginally posted by soul_rage:here comes the joker who boasted about:
1) getting a bj from a woman
2) smelling a woman's panties
3) fantasize he ever had an ONS with a TCS actress
now he is resorting to useless and needless posts (-1, +1), coz he is in total self delusion.
1) There is nothing to boast about, women sucking a man's penis is very normal, if you dont believe, you should ask your mum if she has ever suck your dad's red hard coc.k before
2) I dont just stop at smelling, I like do muff diving too. You have a problem with that?
3) What makes you think that is a fantasy? speculation are for losers. And you are definitely one BIG bloody loser who even has the cheek to proclaim yourself as a top notch talent..Talent for what? Bullshi.ting and licking other's arse I presume.
Moderator : You doesnt seems to mind people talking about BAR subject in this forums, hence I pressume elaborating on the subject a little further will mean no harm to this forum huh? -
You see, this is how this country works. People forget their parents were the ones who broke their backs working for this country, and that the old guard of PAP politicians did most of the work getting this country going. They had passion.Originally posted by soul_rage:The pro-govt supporters can continue to delude themselves, but as I said, many of my friends lost hope for Singapore, the day the ministers raised their pay. That one single move destroyed all the credit the past PAP people did, as it serves to show that this batch of leaders are self-serving, and materialistic.
You would think that the top talents are not affected by this, but I was surprised to find many of my friends from Biomedical, IT, Engineering, Accounting (many of these who have obtained scholarships and have completed their bonds), etc losing all respect for the govt, and planning an exodus from this place.
The current clump of two headed morons however, are riding on the hard work of the old people, and the pro-govt pee-brains have forgotten this. Govt propaganda has been sooo good in the portrayal of these retarded monkeys that you wonder whether these pro-govt morons have lost both wit and sense and their brains and sold them to the local karang guni man.