The lack of social cohesion-whose fault is it
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In my humble opinion, it is partly due to our upbringing. Our ancestors came here for riches and the mentality that was pass on is "mind ur own business."
However, there is a significant part because the govt failed to inculcate true nationalism. They propoganda us rather than trying to unite us .
What we really need in spore are ppl who can selflessly fight for the nation, just like the hero in the movie "brave heart"
Just my two cents, feel free to comment or rebutt me if u think otherwise.
I am in all "eyes" to see them.
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too much socialisation leads to promiscuous sexual behaviour
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I doubt so. There was the kampung spirit in the past. And nationalism is rarely manufactured - it arises unexpectedly from a series of events.Originally posted by morbid4ever:In my humble opinion, it is partly due to our upbringing. Our ancestors came here for riches and the mentality that was pass on is "mind ur own business."
However, there is a significant part because the govt failed to inculcate true nationalism. They propoganda us rather than trying to unite us. -
the closeness was gone, thanks to HDB.
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Ex-PM Goh has used meritocracy and pragmatism, for the narrow purpose of avoiding more creative pro-business and pro-people solutions of problems.
Despite his lack of success in achieving many goals announced such as improving the wages of ordinary people, he is today still a strong believer of pragmatism which simply translates into money making for the government.
All the civil servants became mercenaries using every opportunity whenever there is a problem to use such problems as excuse to charge fees, increases taxes for "pragmatic" solutions to problems.
Pragmatism was conveniently used to cover up problems and override all issues when the final solutions to our problems should be to create a more cohesive culture, leadership-by-example social morality, cohesion, equity and justice among the people from overall education and governance system.
Singapore has missed a golden opportunity to upgrade and restructure the initial success from the 1970s with such culture- and social- approaches which will be more sustainable and lasting.
In the mess created, the whole domestic economy has been eroded with private sector struggling to survive rising costs of doing business.
The results are deep periodic recessions and structural unemployments due to failure to restructure the economy to value-add and technology-driven model talked about for years.
The hapless citizens who despite all the years of contributing to the coffers of HDB/LTA/URA etc suffered again and again from pragmatism and mercenary ways of taxing and profiteering by HDB/LTA etc and were made to pay more and more to no end to accumulate more and more surpluses and increase profits for all ministries and departments and their respective offshoots of GLCs.
Singapore has missed a golden opportunity due to wrong governing philosophy which presumed that simplistic utterances of leadership and talents and constant salary increases to a few top leaders would solve all problems.
They forgot that if they have motivated the people by more creative cultural and social approaches as mentioned they could have made use of initial success and surpluses and empty lands and factories, to create more vibrancy and jobs.
Now as long as they are still practising the so-called leadership and pragmatism, they will continue to exact higher taxes recover all possible costs, double-charging with COE, ERP, lands, assets already paid for by people by selling such assets to such GLCs and getting them to charge for same all over again. -
your statement is right and wrong. Wrong because our ancestors came here and they helped each other, through the clans and associations. New immigrants came here and they all started living in the clans and associations. They gather funds to start business through Tong Tin, without collateral or guarantee. But, you are also right, the other mentality is not to bother about politics, government business "zheng hu e dai yi". The result is lot of China towns but few chinese in official government positions. See this in SEA in particular.Originally posted by morbid4ever:In my humble opinion, it is partly due to our upbringing. Our ancestors came here for riches and the mentality that was pass on is "mind ur own business."
However, there is a significant part because the govt failed to inculcate true nationalism. They propoganda us rather than trying to unite us .
What we really need in spore are ppl who can selflessly fight for the nation, just like the hero in the movie "brave heart"
Just my two cents, feel free to comment or rebutt me if u think otherwise.
I am in all "eyes" to see them.
Talk about social cohesion, which society do we belong? I grew up in serangoon, my friends mostly from the families of Chinese helicopters. My in law side mainly english educated, most don't even understand Mandarin, my friends and my wife have few words when we meet.
I have a malay colleague, working in City Hall. She would travel with us by MRT to Toa Payoh for lunch but not to Keppel for fear that the elders in her family or mosque might see her eating with pork served on the same table.
Another colleague, half his family and most of his extended families are in Australia, he has no interest to travel in SEA, so the only thing he shared after a holiday is Perth or Gold Coast ,
He knows little about Canada, and China to him is like Africa. (I can visualize many of them in this forum) If we travel to australia he would arrange everything for us, but it is oz oz oz and oz.
Of course, I have my church friends, and some small groups of Singaporeans migrated from Malaysia, HK, China (PRC and ROC) over the last 10 years, and my relatives.
What is social cohesion? all these become become one common group? not possible. I guess having friends with different groups, different kinds of people is social cohesion. It all started when we were young, how we make friends, how we keep friends, and what has the government got to do with that? they don't deserve credit but also don't need to blame them. Damn, everything also blame the governmet, very typical!!
People in HK are a cohesive people, more so now then before, especially 10 years under a communist government. Of course, single race and monolingual helps in promoting social cohesion, but I also realize one important thing: over the last 10 years, after 1997, those HKgers who wanted to migrate, talked about migrating, have all migrated. All who stayed behind knew they had to be united together, so now nobody in HK talk about migrating anymore. May be we should be a little bit more patience to allow those who want to migrate just leave Singapore, then there will be social cohesion in Singapore. 
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single sex schools fault
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I don't blame the government for certain things. There are only certain things within control and some out of control. I do blame them for bringing in FT policies which favor foreigners over citizens. I do blame them for allowing employers to favor foreigners over citizens. I do blame them for all the upset they are causing in some singaporeans over the payrise of ministers.Originally posted by sgdiehard:your statement is right and wrong. Wrong because our ancestors came here and they helped each other, through the clans and associations. New immigrants came here and they all started living in the clans and associations. They gather funds to start business through Tong Tin, without collateral or guarantee. But, you are also right, the other mentality is not to bother about politics, government business "zheng hu e dai yi". The result is lot of China towns but few chinese in official government positions. See this in SEA in particular.
What is social cohesion? all these become become one common group? not possible. I guess having friends with different groups, different kinds of people is social cohesion. It all started when we were young, how we make friends, how we keep friends, and what has the government got to do with that? they don't deserve credit but also don't need to blame them. Damn, everything also blame the governmet, very typical!!
People in HK are a cohesive people, more so now then before, especially 10 years under a communist government. Of course, single race and monolingual helps in promoting social cohesion, but I also realize one important thing: over the last 10 years, after 1997, those HKgers who wanted to migrate, talked about migrating, have all migrated. All who stayed behind knew they had to be united together, so now nobody in HK talk about migrating anymore. May be we should be a little bit more patience to allow those who want to migrate just leave Singapore, then there will be social cohesion in Singapore.
Is your last sentence a very intelligible one? No. When you enter government or do policy work - a main word comes into play - sustainability. Sure, Singapore will be sustained for the next 10 years but the question - to whose benefits? Singaporeans or just small subset of elites?
The hkers who stayed back either are the very rich who see China as a jumping plank to more riches (because communist china is more capitalist than communist), or those who can't afford to move off and have to bite their lips and survive day by day. China has vast resources while Singapore has none . So in effect, you are comparing a jackfruit to an small almond.
Right now , Singapore attracts the PRCs , filipinos and Indians because of pay or because of lifestyle - who knows. Some might be accepting the pay here because in their own country , that is alot of money . They could remit it back and become wealthy landowners or investors back in China or India. So when they can go back as wealthy people , they will easily uproot all their monetary assets from Singapore back into their home country.
Mass exodus of your mercenaries, who is left behind to deal with the rubble? Your own Singaporeans. I doubt there will be social cohesion if economy is really bad and all the locals are suffering while the brightest, talented and the skilled left for better pastures. Of course , there will be a small percentage of the brightest, talented and skilled who will remain. They will be left with nothing but rubble to rebuild a Singapore again.Some overseas Singaporeans may come back and help rebuild but it will be slow again. So don't diss overseas Singaporeans - some of us still have a soft spot for Singapore.
Look at Malacca's history , and you will find some disturbing similarities between Tun Perak and LKY. Philipines was once a very rich country compared to Singapore itself. So don't talk so fast. And remember : History repeats itself. -
so true...Originally posted by fymk:So don't diss overseas Singaporeans - some of us still have a soft spot for Singapore.
And remember : History repeats itself. -
Want to talk about FT, similar threads exist, go there.Originally posted by fymk:I don't blame the government for certain things. There are only certain things within control and some out of control. I do blame them for bringing in FT policies which favor foreigners over citizens. I do blame them for allowing employers to favor foreigners over citizens. I do blame them for all the upset they are causing in some singaporeans over the payrise of ministers.
Is your last sentence a very intelligible one? No. When you enter government or do policy work - a main word comes into play - sustainability. Sure, Singapore will be sustained for the next 10 years but the question - to whose benefits? Singaporeans or just small subset of elites?
Want to talk about ministers pay, similar threads exist, go there.
Here we talk about social cohesion, you need to enter government to improve your social skills for better social cohesion? no wonder why the government fails, forgot I said shouldn't blame them.
hkers who stayed back in 1997 were the very rich ??? you are totally disconnected with the reality of that time. If you say that to any HKyers who migrated to US, Canada, Oz, NZ...they would be laughing their hearts out, for they were the richest among all, to be able to migrate to so many places. When you talk to them, just don't say you are from Singapore, please.Originally posted by fymk:The hkers who stayed back either are the very rich who see China as a jumping plank to more riches (because communist china is more capitalist than communist), or those who can't afford to move off and have to bite their lips and survive day by day. China has vast resources while Singapore has none . So in effect, you are comparing a jackfruit to an small almond.
I compare the social cohesion of HK with that of Singapore, not the whole China, you know how big is China?
All my maids from Indonesia worked only two years for me then went back and bought land built house to get married. If any FT see investment back in their home country yielding greater returns than leaving it in Singapore, it is their perogative, at least they made the right decision to invest in Singapore to start with. You should wish your investment in your new place give you greater returns than in Singapore, or else the FTs are better than you in investment. Sorry, not so nice sounding but it is true.Originally posted by fymk:Right now , Singapore attracts the PRCs , filipinos and Indians because of pay or because of lifestyle - who knows. Some might be accepting the pay here because in their own country , that is alot of money . They could remit it back and become wealthy landowners or investors back in China or India. So when they can go back as wealthy people , they will easily uproot all their monetary assets from Singapore back into their home country. -
Overseas Singaporean? you are overseas working, but maintain your Singapore citizenship? or you have you taken up a new citizenship? Overseas Chinese refer to Chinese as an ethnicity, the Chinese as a race. Singaporeans is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality. There are PRC Chinese, ROC Chinese, American Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, same ethnicity, different nationality. you can slang your angmoh but the angmoh will still recognise you as a Chinese, but you give up your citizenship, you are no longer a Singaporean! don't tell me your hearts still belong to Singapore.Originally posted by fymk:Some overseas Singaporeans may come back and help rebuild but it will be slow again. So don't diss overseas Singaporeans.
We need friends even now, and we certainly looking forward to friends overseas to help us, even take side with us in time of trouble. These will not only include those who were born in Singapore, but also those who once lived here and work here. we hope their memory of Singapore was pleasant enough to help. If they dont' help, it is their choice. But can we count on sillyporeans who uprooted everything including their memory of Singapore? If they left with such bitterness, continue to criticize the government (ok for they deserve it to some extent) and the people who stay behind, even predicting dooms day for Singapore (like a curse), are they even our friends??
don't understand "mass exodus of your mercenaries", now only some "sillyporeans" leaving Singapore, where got "mass exodus of mercenaries". We are staying behind to fight for a better future, including for a better government. If you think future of Singapore is doom, it is your perogative to move, but we cannot accept you dooms day scenario. We certainly do not accept that the people who have left us were "the brightest, talented and the skilled", tell that to the government of your new home, just make sure you don't disappoint them.Originally posted by fymk:Mass exodus of your mercenaries, who is left behind to deal with the rubble? Your own Singaporeans. I doubt there will be social cohesion if economy is really bad and all the locals are suffering while the brightest, talented and the skilled left for better pastures. Of course , there will be a small percentage of the brightest, talented and skilled who will remain. They will be left with nothing but rubble to rebuild a Singapore again.
Care to illustrate the disturbing similarities between Tun Perak and LKY, and why is Philippines in the picture?Originally posted by fymk:Look at Malacca's history , and you will find some disturbing similarities between Tun Perak and LKY. Philipines was once a very rich country compared to Singapore itself. So don't talk so fast. And remember : History repeats itself.
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:so true... the Chinese say "da shi ai, ma shi teng". You hammer me because you love me, you scold me because you are fond of me.
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Shrugs. Say what you like. Obviously you still cannot comprehend that I do still currently have a pink ic and a Singaporean passport which makes me a Singaporean. Just because I am overseas, so what? Must you be so aggressive about the point that I have citizenship while being overseas? Are you really that sore that I can move at will while you cannot? My memories and history are still entwined in Singapore. It is impossible to uproot those from my own mind. Maybe you need to improve your comprehension.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Overseas Singaporean? you are overseas working, but maintain your Singapore citizenship? or you have you taken up a new citizenship? Overseas Chinese refer to Chinese as an ethnicity, the Chinese as a race. Singaporeans is not an ethnicity, it is a nationality. There are PRC Chinese, ROC Chinese, American Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, same ethnicity, different nationality. you can slang your angmoh but the angmoh will still recognise you as a Chinese, but you give up your citizenship, you are no longer a Singaporean! don't tell me your hearts still belong to Singapore.
We need friends even now, and we certainly looking forward to friends overseas to help us, even take side with us in time of trouble. These will not only include those who were born in Singapore, but also those who once lived here and work here. we hope their memory of Singapore was pleasant enough to help. If they dont' help, it is their choice. But can we count on sillyporeans who uprooted everything including their memory of Singapore? If they left with such bitterness, continue to criticize the government (ok for they deserve it to some extent) and the people who stay behind, even predicting dooms day for Singapore (like a curse), are they even our friends??
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Originally posted by fymk:
Mass exodus of your mercenaries, who is left behind to deal with the rubble? Your own Singaporeans. I doubt there will be social cohesion if economy is really bad and all the locals are suffering while the brightest, talented and the skilled left for better pastures. Of course , there will be a small percentage of the brightest, talented and skilled who will remain. They will be left with nothing but rubble to rebuild a Singapore again.
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don't understand "mass exodus of your mercenaries", now only some "sillyporeans"; leaving Singapore, where got "mass exodus of mercenaries". We are staying behind to fight for a better future, including for a better government. If you think future of Singapore is doom, it is your perogative to move, but we cannot accept you dooms day scenario. We certainly do not accept that the people who have left us were "the brightest, talented and the skilled", tell that to the government of your new home, just make sure you don't disappoint them.
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Originally posted by fymk:
Look at Malacca's history , and you will find some disturbing similarities between Tun Perak and LKY. Philipines was once a very rich country compared to Singapore itself. So don't talk so fast. And remember : History repeats itself.
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Care to illustrate the disturbing similarities between Tun Perak and LKY, and why is Philippines in the picture?
ROFL There are overseas Australians but I never heard of an australian in australia telling his overseas compatriot that he is not fit to be an australian. Neither do I hear PRCs doing that. I only hear you , a Singaporean , telling me I cannot be Singaporean just because I am overseas and criticising the government's policies.
So stop being full of yourself and listen. Until you have seen and lived in another country, you cannot see why people are criticising the government. It's just tunnel vision. I couldn't understand why people do it until I moved out for overseas study and have a look at it myself when I came back into Singapore.The perception becomes clearer and you look from another point of view , not the government sanctioned view. Mind you , I actually sacrificed the chance of an overseas scholarship to contribute to SINGAPORE and that was the worst decision I made in my life. So don't tell me that I don't have the right to criticise, I sacrificed something in my life to come back to my own country and be treated like crap because I am a commoner. Second chances come along rarely and I have to take it .
Foreign talents have no loyalty to Singapore. First sign of trouble they run , hence mass exodus. If you don't get it in the sense of the broader picture, I pity you.
As for Tun Perak , he was the kingmaker - go read the history of Malacca before you demand the interpretation.
Philipines itself was a richer country than Singapore once . You talk as though Singapore will be perpetually rich ...but it won't. Countries go up and they go down - that is a fact itself in history. -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Read properly. Did I say they are all very rich? Before you decide to put some more words in my mouth ,go read the bolded. There are some rich fellas who stay because they got the potential and connections to make it big.
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Originally posted by fymk:
The hkers who stayed back either are the very rich who see China as a jumping plank to more riches (because communist china is more capitalist than communist), or those who can't afford to move off and have to bite their lips and survive day by day. China has vast resources while Singapore has none . So in effect, you are comparing a jackfruit to an small almond.
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hkers who stayed back in 1997 were the very rich ??? you are totally disconnected with the reality of that time. If you say that to any HKyers who migrated to US, Canada, Oz, NZ...they would be laughing their hearts out, for they were the richest among all, to be able to migrate to so many places. When you talk to them, just don't say you are from Singapore, please.
I compare the social cohesion of HK with that of Singapore, not the whole China, you know how big is China?
My investments in Australia already have returns - So what are you talking about?
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Originally posted by fymk:
Right now , Singapore attracts the PRCs , filipinos and Indians because of pay or because of lifestyle - who knows. Some might be accepting the pay here because in their own country , that is alot of money . They could remit it back and become wealthy landowners or investors back in China or India. So when they can go back as wealthy people , they will easily uproot all their monetary assets from Singapore back into their home country.
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All my maids from Indonesia worked only two years for me then went back and bought land built house to get married. If any FT see investment back in their home country yielding greater returns than leaving it in Singapore, it is their perogative, at least they made the right decision to invest in Singapore to start with. You should wish your investment in your new place give you greater returns than in Singapore, or else the FTs are better than you in investment. Sorry, not so nice sounding but it is true.
Stay in Singapore ....I as a local own nothing or probably owe 80% to HDB for a 99 year lease apartment while slogging away . Stay in Australia, I own an apartment owing 30% of the value to the bank so it is backed against itself. Sorry, don't get you about me wishing my new place giving me greater returns. I already got greater returns in Australia.
If I didn't return to Singapore to work , I would have owned a 100% without mortgage. But I returned out of blind loyalty...so I kenna big time ....70% of my apartment is mine and 30% is owed to the bank. I still have to make up for alot of lost time. -
Ok, my apology, some how I got the impression that you have uprooted everything, including your memory and left, if you did that then I have every right to tell you what I told you. But if you have not, I owe you a sorry.Originally posted by fymk:Shrugs. Say what you like. Obviously you still cannot comprehend that I do still currently have a pink ic and a Singaporean passport which makes me a Singaporean. Just because I am overseas, so what? Must you be so aggressive about the point that I have citizenship while being overseas? Are you really that sore that I can move at will while you cannot? My memories and history are still entwined in Singapore. It is impossible to uproot those from my own mind. Maybe you need to improve your comprehension.
ROFL There are overseas Australians but I never heard of an australian in australia telling his overseas compatriot that he is not fit to be an australian. Neither do I hear PRCs doing that. I only hear you , a Singaporean , telling me I cannot be Singaporean just because I am overseas and criticising the government's policies.
My job enables me to travel very extensively overseas, to many countries, I am comfortable in Singapore because my family is here. If I had accepted a posting to Shanghai, I would have invested in properties in shanghai in the last 5 years and I would have made a lot more money and retire. It was a decision made, didn't do it as sacrifice for Singapore, just didn't like to bring my family to shanghai.Originally posted by fymk:So stop being full of yourself and listen. Until you have seen and lived in another country, you cannot see why people are criticising the government. It's just tunnel vision. I couldn't understand why people do it until I moved out for overseas study and have a look at it myself when I came back into Singapore.The perception becomes clearer and you look from another point of view , not the government sanctioned view. Mind you , I actually sacrificed the chance of an overseas scholarship to contribute to SINGAPORE and that was the worst decision I made in my life. So don't tell me that I don't have the right to criticise, I sacrificed something in my life to come back to my own country and be treated like crap because I am a commoner. Second chances come along rarely and I have to take it .
Foreign talents have no loyalty to Singapore. First sign of trouble they run , hence mass exodus. If you don't get it in the sense of the broader picture, I pity you.
As for Tun Perak , he was the kingmaker - go read the history of Malacca before you demand the interpretation.
Philipines itself was a richer country than Singapore once . You talk as though Singapore will be perpetually rich ...but it won't. Countries go up and they go down - that is a fact itself in history.
Accept or reject a scholorship, you had a choice. Had to go NS thus foregoing a scholorship is a sacrifice. There are FTs who had asked their sons studying in australia to come back to singapore for NS. Don't dismiss the dedication of the FTs. Not all FTs would run at the first sight of trouble, not all Singaporeans would stay and fight for their country. Some Singaporeans migrated because they married foreigners, some migrated because most of their relative are already overseas, it is their choice and it is our choice where we live our life. We should have that kind of mutual respect, for fellow Singaporeans as well as the FT. -
we dont have any.
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I had a choice . That is why I said I made the worst decision to come back.Originally posted by sgdiehard:My job enables me to travel very extensively overseas, to many countries, I am comfortable in Singapore because my family is here. If I had accepted a posting to Shanghai, I would have invested in properties in shanghai in the last 5 years and I would have made a lot more money and retire. It was a decision made, didn't do it as sacrifice for Singapore, just didn't like to bring my family to shanghai.
Accept or reject a scholorship, you had a choice. Had to go NS thus foregoing a scholorship is a sacrifice. There are FTs who had asked their sons studying in australia to come back to singapore for NS. Don't dismiss the dedication of the FTs. Not all FTs would run at the first sight of trouble, not all Singaporeans would stay and fight for their country. Some Singaporeans migrated because they married foreigners, some migrated because most of their relative are already overseas, it is their choice and it is our choice where we live our life. We should have that kind of mutual respect, for fellow Singaporeans as well as the FT.
I have been thru the system and probably both of us have very different opinions or experiences.
You have been travelling about but I have been living in another country for a few years. That gives me time to sit back and think. And also it is easy in Australia to find out who owns what since the Singaporean community is very small. I know some of the elites have backups - like properties etc in Australia. That is why sometimes I can really choke on what some of the elites say.
I know of PRs who asked their sons to do NS because they think it is a form of great discipline. But you just never know - in a war , they can run back to their own countries. Singaporeans can't - most I know can't run elsewhere- maybe over the border to Malaysia ...but otherwise they are stuck. -
the rich have backup in australia and singapore, the richer ones also have in Malaysia, HK and China, some in UK. If you are rich and are in for properties, it makes sense of diversify your property investment portfolio, it is backup for financial risks rather than backup in case there are trouble in Australia or Singapore.Originally posted by fymk:I had a choice . That is why I said I made the worst decision to come back.
I have been thru the system and probably both of us have very different opinions or experiences.
You have been travelling about but I have been living in another country for a few years. That gives me time to sit back and think. And also it is easy in Australia to find out who owns what since the Singaporean community is very small. I know some of the elites have backups - like properties etc in Australia. That is why sometimes I can really choke on what some of the elites say.
I know of PRs who asked their sons to do NS because they think it is a form of great discipline. But you just never know - in a war , they can run back to their own countries. Singaporeans can't - most I know can't run elsewhere- maybe over the border to Malaysia ...but otherwise they are stuck.
NS is a form of great discipline, a great experience and a great way to reinforce the sense of belonging for our young people, and to instil confidence in the country, with or without PAP. Singapore will not become rubble in time of war, nobody would be stuck, why some Singaporeans cannot have the same kind of confidence, because of LKY or PAP?
When your country goes to war, and you are only looking for a place to run, even China is not big enough. War with terrorists today, the frontline is not more dangerous than anywhere behind. Singapore had many choices on how to fight a war, but one limitation remains, we cannot run back. With that in mind, it is up to everybody in the SAF to fight, and the whole Singapore to support them. As to how would SAF fight with such limitation, start a thread in Military Nuts and many people, quite knowledgable ones will tell you. -
Like how a school boy from a certain elite school in Singapore answered a question posed: " Don't worry , I will help Singapore. First my parents say we go overseas during the war. Then after the war, we send money to help Singapore."Originally posted by sgdiehard:the rich have backup in australia and singapore, the richer ones also have in Malaysia, HK and China, some in UK. If you are rich and are in for properties, it makes sense of diversify your property investment portfolio, it is backup for financial risks rather than backup in case there are trouble in Australia or Singapore.
NS is a form of great discipline, a great experience and a great way to reinforce the sense of belonging for our young people, and to instil confidence in the country, with or without PAP. Singapore will not become rubble in time of war, nobody would be stuck, why some Singaporeans cannot have the same kind of confidence, because of LKY or PAP?
When your country goes to war, and you are only looking for a place to run, even China is not big enough. War with terrorists today, the frontline is not more dangerous than anywhere behind. Singapore had many choices on how to fight a war, but one limitation remains, we cannot run back. With that in mind, it is up to everybody in the SAF to fight, and the whole Singapore to support them. As to how would SAF fight with such limitation, start a thread in Military Nuts and many people, quite knowledgable ones will tell you.
Go figure why some Singaporeans cannot have the same confidence ... -
I not worried, there are enough Singaporeans, plus some FTs who got confidence, enough liao. There will always be some who got no confidence, but they can leave. Like I said, nobody is chasing them also nobody is keeping them.Originally posted by fymk:Like how a school boy from a certain elite school in Singapore answered a question posed: " Don't worry , I will help Singapore. First my parents say we go overseas during the war. Then after the war, we send money to help Singapore."
Go figure why some Singaporeans cannot have the same confidence ...
My suggestion is that they better run now, or they get stuck. While the property market is hot, sell the house, when war comes all houses would be worth nothing; before the government change their policy again, take out the CPF; fly now before Singapore declared war zone, then have to take sampan, very far to go australia; change citizenship now, before all citizenships given to refugees, the many elites and FT from Singapore.... as for me, can't say I would die in Singapore, but I will be here looking for some cheap houses left behind. -
Now aren't you causing dissension yourself which you accuse others of doing?Originally posted by sgdiehard:I not worried, there are enough Singaporeans, plus some FTs who got confidence, enough liao. There will always be some who got no confidence, but they can leave. Like I said, nobody is chasing them also nobody is keeping them.
My suggestion is that they better run now, or they get stuck. While the property market is hot, sell the house, when war comes all houses would be worth nothing; before the government change their policy again, take out the CPF; fly now before Singapore declared war zone, then have to take sampan, very far to go australia; change citizenship now, before all citizenships given to refugees, the many elites and FT from Singapore.... as for me, can't say I would die in Singapore, but I will be here looking for some cheap houses left behind.
You speak rather arrogantly and ignorantly - looking for cheap houses?
At least , I wish her well and I criticise the government policies for her good. If you cannot accept that , too bad. -
What causing dissension myself, I feel dissent?Originally posted by fymk:Now aren't you causing dissension yourself which you accuse others of doing?
You speak rather arrogantly and ignorantly - looking for cheap houses?
At least , I wish her well and I criticise the government policies for her good. If you cannot accept that , too bad. I am encouraging more people like you who are really disillusioned with Singapore to leave, who think Singapore cannot sustain to leave, I am encouraging them to join you, but I WILL BE AROUND. If a lot of them do leave as you hope, wouldn't there be a lot of empty houses here going for cheap? (or do you think the prices will sustain ) and if Singapore bubble were to burst and become rubble, wouldn't there be properties cheaper than it is now? ignorant or not, I put my money where my mouth is. 
Your only stake in Singapore is your entire family which you wish you could "pulls their roots from it plus the whole of their history there". Interesting to know that your parents wish to continue to stay in "the bubble called Singapore", not attracted by the free medical...blah blah in Australia, and with their daughter living in a distant land, only coming back as tourist, it is a great price indeed your parents are paying to stay in Singapore, salute.
You wish Singapore well, I sincerely hope so. Criticise the government for all I care (it is still your right as a citizen). Just make the difference between constructive criticism and what the HKgers call "xiong shuei your country" meaning "sing till your country decline". -
What causing dissension myself, I feel dissent?Originally posted by fymk:Now aren't you causing dissension yourself which you accuse others of doing?
You speak rather arrogantly and ignorantly - looking for cheap houses?
At least , I wish her well and I criticise the government policies for her good. If you cannot accept that , too bad. I am encouraging more people like you who are really disillusioned with Singapore to leave, who think Singapore cannot sustain to leave, I am encouraging them to join you, but I WILL BE AROUND. If a lot of them do leave as you hope, wouldn't there be a lot of empty houses here going for cheap (unless you think Singapore properties prices could even sustain with an exodus of its people)? and if Singapore bubble were to burst and become rubble, wouldn't there be properties cheaper than it is now? ignorant or not, I put my money where my mouth is.
Your only stake in Singapore is your entire family which you wish you could "pulls their roots from it plus the whole of their history there". Interesting to know that your parents wish to continue to stay in "the bubble called Singapore", not attracted by the free medical...blah blah in Australia, and with their daughter living in a distant land, only coming back as tourist, it is a great price indeed your parents are paying to stay in Singapore, salute.
You wish Singapore well, I sincerely hope so. Criticise the government for all I care (it is still your right as a citizen). Just make the difference between constructive criticism and what the HKgers call "xiong shuei your country" meaning "sing till your country decline". -
Ai yo ....you still want to look right after a lousy debate on the definition of migration. I can see that you like to put words into people's mouth when you cannot win.Originally posted by sgdiehard:What causing dissension myself, I feel dissent? I am encouraging more people like you who are really disillusioned with Singapore to leave, who think Singapore cannot sustain to leave, I am encouraging them to join you, but I WILL BE AROUND. If a lot of them do leave as you hope, wouldn't there be a lot of empty houses here going for cheap? (or do you think the prices will sustain ) and if Singapore bubble were to burst and become rubble, wouldn't there be properties cheaper than it is now? ignorant or not, I put my money where my mouth is.
Your only stake in Singapore is your entire family which you wish you could "pulls their roots from it plus the whole of their history there". Interesting to know that your parents wish to continue to stay in "the bubble called Singapore", not attracted by the free medical...blah blah in Australia, and with their daughter living in a distant land, only coming back as tourist, it is a great price indeed your parents are paying to stay in Singapore, salute.
You wish Singapore well, I sincerely hope so. Criticise the government for all I care (it is still your right as a citizen). Just make the difference between constructive criticism and what the HKgers call "xiong shuei your country" meaning "sing till your country decline".
My parents have the backup of permanent residency in Australia - so don't talk about what you don't know. My parents were one of those many people who participated in the building of Singapore - I don't know about you. Now you have the govt asking those same people to continue working ...those same people who help built Singapore to a nation it is now to be "self sustaining" while the ministers earn millions ......well excuse me , damn if I will allow my parents to work in their autumn and winter years.
Oh ya if the bubble burst , you will be first to scavenge off those singaporeans who have to sell their properties cheap ? That makes you worse than I because at least I don't say such things.
I still have relatives there in Singapore. So how does criticising govt policies will cause the decline? My gawd , you are thick. Look at the latest biomed hub I listed as an example - why not expand on it?
Sorry ...if you think using "patriotic" arguments on me , you are frightfully wrong because nothing you had said smelled of a shred of patriotism. You are talking positively now because you probably have a job and feel secure. When you become poor and unemployed , we will see you singing a different tune. -
Originally posted by fymk:
sigh....still concerned about right or wrong in argument for a definition, I am too old for that, especially on on a forum like this. If we meet face to face, I ask you for your IC, see whether you run or not.
Ai yo ....you still want to look right after a lousy debate on the definition of migration. I can see that you like to put words into people's mouth when you cannot win.
My parents have the backup of permanent residency in Australia - so don't talk about what you don't know. My parents were one of those many people who participated in the building of Singapore - I don't know about you. Now you have the govt asking those same people to continue working ...[b]those same people who help built Singapore to a nation it is now to be "self sustaining" while the ministers earn millions ......well excuse me , damn if I will allow my parents to work in their autumn and winter years.
Oh ya if the bubble burst , you will be first to scavenge off those singaporeans who have to sell their properties cheap ? That makes you worse than I because at least I don't say such things.
I still have relatives there in Singapore. So how does criticising govt policies will cause the decline? My gawd , you are thick. Look at the latest biomed hub I listed as an example - why not expand on it?
Sorry ...if you think using "patriotic" arguments on me , you are frightfully wrong because nothing you had said smelled of a shred of patriotism. You are talking positively now because you probably have a job and feel secure. When you become poor and unemployed , we will see you singing a different tune.[/b]
Talking about the word "migration", it simply means the movement from one place to another place, it takes many different forms, from conquest, to cultural infiltration, to settlement, ...and refugee movement. A tick on an immigration form does not define the word in details. Modern understanding of the word migration means you move with the intention to settle. This differentiate the move from going on long holidays, overseas employment, .... you are not seasonal birds which would settle for good. Thousands of HKgers went to Canada, USA, Australia, and even HK to get a PR, a green card, in case things go bad in HK after 97, they have a back up, just likeyour parents. Most of them would not say they have migrated. Have your parents migrated? Those who actually migrated sold everything in HK, brought their family and settle in a foreign land.
It makes no sense to argue with you on definition. I don't put words into your mouth, you wrote a lot in this forum, apparently you forgot what you wrote.
I agree, the government is wrong not to take care of old folks, but thank God, my parents, who also participated in the building of Singapore, do not have to depend on the government for old age. I, together with my brother and sister will not allow any winter in my parents old age, though they have experienced winters in China, Korea, and Japan during holidays trip there. They don't like it there, and I will never allow them to have to travel with me to settle in a cold country, just to be with their grand children. Don't want to migrate for me is more than just patriotism. Yes, we still need to care for those old folks who are less fortunate, join opposition parties, participate in help organisations.....migrating to any other country can only talk, it does not help.
I said it in another post, I am not in biomed industry and I know nothing about that, so I cannot and won't expend on it. But from airport hub, ports....to high tech industries, since when were there no competitions, from any countries in the world, not just Australia. So? chicken out?
I have been retrenched before, during the difficult period of time, my wife supported me till I got another job again. Being positive enable us to live our life happily together, but of course, being prepared with savings, with extra skills, and even my friends in Singapore who help make it easy to have positive attitude. In anyway, will it help by being negative, does it make any diff if I sing a different tune? Be positive, there is no win or lose in this arguement, if you know how to be positive, it will benefit you a lot in the future, that is what I've learned.
Yes, I have bought a car for a song, because the owner was migrating, needws to dispose of it quickly. I am looking for more. Oh ya if the bubble burst, hmm....that is a very negative statement, I will be first to scavenge off those singaporeans who have to sell their properties cheap. Whats wrong with that? you will be lucky if you get some money back, if religious terrorists, or communists from PRC occupies Singapore, you would have nothing left. another negative statement.