40 years of national service or national slavery?
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As long as there is pay, I don't mind to become slave.
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yeah.. mental states..
you think of it as slavery, some think of it as something necessary to give them a freedom which is not to be taken for granted..
just like you think about yourself only but try to extrapolate it to others, to rationalise it as 'slavery'
what have you done for your society?Originally posted by (human):Freedom and slavery are mental states. You have to ask them. -
Who claims slaves never get a single cent?Originally posted by will4:Slaves never get a single cent. What u trying to prove in this topic? -
Such question should use only for self reflection. I believe you don't go around and ask everyone what have they done for society. Isn't it?Originally posted by the Bear:yeah.. mental states..
what have you done for your society? -
And thus the problem you are having at the moment is of mental nature?Originally posted by (human):Freedom and slavery are mental states. You have to ask them. -
it is for yours..
you do not proclaim it slavery when it is your own thoughts without any self-reflection..
and if you say it's slavery because you can only think of yourself, that says a lot about what and who you are...Originally posted by (human):Such question should use only for self reflection. I believe you don't go around and ask everyone what have they done for society. Isn't it? -
soldiers are waiting for you to change the ruling party, they would also protect you even if you don't care for people. Singapore soldiers protect Singapore, no mix up with politics.Originally posted by (human):Any one read today's ST "Soldiers vow to guard Singapore with thier lives"? Soldiers vow to guard Singapore with thier lives by heart or just by verbally?
Will one guard a country with live when they know that ruling party's ministers are self serving, care more for profit than for the people? -
Before you typed this question are there no thoughts going through your mental state as in right now?Originally posted by wisefool83:And thus the problem you are having at the moment is of mental nature? -
i think NS is a system implemented by the government so that they can train them to be strong, defend Singapore, but somehow, its like treating them like slaves. one question to ponder: i think we do not have the need to serve NS, even if its compulsory, when PAP is still ruling the government and i'll rather we'll be ruled by other countries or if its possible, WP or SDA.
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NS is important both as a tool of national security, and a political weapon.
It is interesting to note that both have been used in times of political unrest among our neighbours to stifle their hollow threats.
When George Yeo opened negotiations on bilateral trade and defence talks with Indonesia, what do you think is the most powerful bargaining tool he has?
While NS has its grouces, it nevertheless lends significant weight to our political muscle, ensure our 'larger' neighbours toe the line. This can be highlighted in our currency pact with Brunei and the loaning of Temburong training area for our armed forces. Why does our govt park a sizable force of our SAF in Brunei, especially since Brunei borders both East Malaysia and Indonesia?
Our armed forces is what intrinsically keeps the vultures at bay, and lets us go about our business on a daily basis. It is as important to us as our family. -
No mix up with politic? You mean the conducts of leader won't affect how soldiers think?Originally posted by sgdiehard:soldiers are waiting for you to change the ruling party, they would also protect you even if you don't care for people. Singapore soldiers protect Singapore, no mix up with politics. -
Conducts of leaders affect how citizens think. Citizens onced called up and put on uniform become soldiers and they take orders from commanders, not do what they think.Originally posted by (human):No mix up with politic? You mean the conducts of leader won't affect how soldiers think?
SAF's duty is to guard Singapore as a country, not to protect politicians, but the soldiers, including the generals, cannot suka suka do what they like, because they don't like some of the leaders. -
have you served NS?Originally posted by BusSpeeder:i think NS is a system implemented by the government so that they can train them to be strong, defend Singapore, but somehow, its like treating them like slaves. one question to ponder: i think we do not have the need to serve NS, even if its compulsory, when PAP is still ruling the government and i'll rather we'll be ruled by other countries or if its possible, WP or SDA.
Singapore can be ruled by WP, SDA or even me, when elected,
but if you want to be ruled by other countries, you go to the countries, Singapore cannot be ruled by other countries! Get this clear. 
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Are SAF commanders not taking orders from the politicians?Originally posted by sgdiehard:Conducts of leaders affect how citizens think. Citizens onced called up and put on uniform become soldiers and they take orders from commanders, not do what they think.
SAF's duty is to guard Singapore as a country, not to protect politicians, but the soldiers, including the generals, cannot suka suka do what they like, because they don't like some of the leaders. -
Actually, I wonder if this rock is even defensible for starters..... say a Chinese aircraft carrier with say 70-90 aircraft and escorts, will be enough to maul our navy and airforce to death. Then the bombings start....
To be honest, our defensive options are limited. We are better off with a professional army that can fight and not some.. bloated army that the mere mobilisation will bring our economy to heels.
Our neighbours know that as well. If they really want to kill us, force us rather to be mobilised for a few days, and we will be screwed.
Let's be a little realistic and put aside foolish patriotism. This rock isn't defensible, and our economy will crumble even without a war. Political Muscle? Pah! Only the militaries around us care. WTF will a more advanced power like S. Korea or Japan care?
Actually, I wouldn't mind if Singapore becomes the 52nd state of the US.
Here's an even bigger joke: Our economy is so reliant on "foreign talent", it will crumble the moment they all flee the county like in WWII. And who said we were free of colonial influences? -
What if 1 day Singapore is ruled by tyrants and country like America want to liberate Singapore. Are you going to blindly defend and fight for tyrants?Originally posted by sgdiehard:have you served NS?
Singapore can be ruled by WP, SDA or even me, when elected, but if you want to be ruled by other countries, you go to the countries, Singapore cannot be ruled by other countries! Get this clear. -
well then, prove me right. would you prefer Singapore to be ruled by PAP, WP or SDA? PAP has been increasing prices now and then. WP cuts cost and as for SDA, i don't know but at least they just hate PAP and not Singapore.Originally posted by sgdiehard:have you served NS?
Singapore can be ruled by WP, SDA or even me, when elected, but if you want to be ruled by other countries, you go to the countries, Singapore cannot be ruled by other countries! Get this clear. -
citizens have their human rights too. don't you think that the commanders keep ordering them to do this and do that will violate their human rights? is there any such thing as "we say, YOU obey?".Originally posted by sgdiehard:Conducts of leaders affect how citizens think. Citizens onced called up and put on uniform become soldiers and they take orders from commanders, not do what they think.
SAF's duty is to guard Singapore as a country, not to protect politicians, but the soldiers, including the generals, cannot suka suka do what they like, because they don't like some of the leaders. -
Originally posted by (human):Are SAF commanders not taking orders from the politicians? [/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by (human):
[b]What if 1 day Singapore is ruled by tyrants and country like America want to liberate Singapore. Are you going to blindly defend and fight for tyrants? You are right, at very top of the chain of command, the Chief of SAF will have to take order from Teo Chee Hean, the defence minister, a politician. Yes, you will have a problem if you decide not to obey his order. That is not my problem, because I am not Chief of SAF. 
when you are in uniform, whose order do you take, a corporal? he is not a politician.
If tyrants were elected by the people of Singapore, not through revolution or means other than election, then even your grandfather from China come and want to liberate you, SAF will fight them till the last man. You can take that to the bank. -
since when china has aircraft carrier ? issit a transformer in disguise ?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Actually, I wonder if this rock is even defensible for starters..... say a Chinese aircraft carrier with say 70-90 aircraft and escorts, will be enough to maul our navy and airforce to death. Then the bombings start....
To be honest, our defensive options are limited. We are better off with a professional army that can fight and not some.. bloated army that the mere mobilisation will bring our economy to heels.
Our neighbours know that as well. If they really want to kill us, force us rather to be mobilised for a few days, and we will be screwed.
Let's be a little realistic and put aside foolish patriotism. This rock isn't defensible, and our economy will crumble even without a war. Political Muscle? Pah! Only the militaries around us care. WTF will a more advanced power like S. Korea or Japan care?
Actually, I wouldn't mind if Singapore becomes the 52nd state of the US.
Here's an even bigger joke: Our economy is so reliant on "foreign talent", it will crumble the moment they all flee the county like in WWII. And who said we were free of colonial influences? -
Long and Short of this whole issue......
NOT HAPPY..... Go to other countries lor. Don't just talk and not action. As long as you live here.... NS is and will be part of your life. You could KPKB all day long, and still have to do it in the end. Take it like a REAL MAN and stop being SISSY about it.
If you can't even serve 2 - 2.5 years to protect your Country ( Incl - Family + Friends...... NOT THE GOVT only ) WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU TO TALK ABOUT CHANGING S'PORE FOR THE BETTER
"He who wants to lead must first serve....'' - hloc
Feel free to use my 'quote' next time.....
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Originally posted by hloc:
agreed. how about the retraining after coming out from NS?
Long and Short of this whole issue......
NOT HAPPY..... Go to other countries lor. Don't just talk and not action. [b]As long as you live here.... NS is and will be part of your life. You could KPKB all day long, and still have to do it in the end. Take it like a REAL MAN and stop being SISSY about it.
If you can't even serve 2 - 2.5 years to protect your Country ( Incl - Family + Friends...... NOT THE GOVT only ) WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU TO TALK ABOUT CHANGING S'PORE FOR THE BETTER
Feel free to use my 'quote' next time..... [/b] -
You think our neighbours will bother to conquer us ah? This rock is quite useless to them beyond some ego boosting.Originally posted by crazy monkey:since when china has aircraft carrier ? issit a transformer in disguise ?
And yes, China has unofficially an aircraft carrier. What's left of the Varyag and the Minsk which they are examining to try build their own.
The unfortunate fact of this world is that small countries exist to be bullied. The UN is supposed to prevent this, but hey, who ultimately wields the levers of power? -
Originally posted by hloc:
You mean rather, that a real man has no brains and can't think for his own self ah.
Long and Short of this whole issue......
NOT HAPPY..... Go to other countries lor. Don't just talk and not action. [b]As long as you live here.... NS is and will be part of your life. You could KPKB all day long, and still have to do it in the end. Take it like a REAL MAN and stop being SISSY about it.
If you can't even serve 2 - 2.5 years to protect your Country ( Incl - Family + Friends...... NOT THE GOVT only ) WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU TO TALK ABOUT CHANGING S'PORE FOR THE BETTER
Feel free to use my 'quote' next time..... [/b] -
If PAP rules Singapore, I don't want to serve NS, if WP rules, I serve. If prices increase, I don't serve, if cut cost, I serve, if got freedom I serve, cannot book out I don't serve.....YOU THINK SAF NIN LAO PE YEH HUH?Originally posted by BusSpeeder:well then, prove me right. would you prefer Singapore to be ruled by PAP, WP or SDA? PAP has been increasing prices now and then. WP cuts cost and as for SDA, i don't know but at least they just hate PAP and not Singapore.
Have you served NS? just tell us if the experience has been that of slavery. If you haven't served, tell your mother you are running because PAP will continue to rule for a while.
go ask the americans, especially those in Iraq, who have the human rights. You think only the commanders violate your human rights, the policemen also violate your human rights.Originally posted by BusSpeeder:citizens have their human rights too. don't you think that the commanders keep ordering them to do this and do that will violate their human rights? is there any such thing as "we say, YOU obey?".
Have you served NS?