SingaporeÂ’s Public Sleepers
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Hmm, but isn't the Bear saying that we should take pics and send it to the PMO? I think it's pretty different from putting them up on a forum.Originally posted by Atobe:Your ingratitude displayed simply reflect the clothes that you wear seem to have come from the same ''clothing source'' used by LKY - in the manner that LKY used Lim Chin Siong to garner the mass support available to Lim, only to back-stab Lim by calling him a Communist.
Now I wonder which side of the divide you come from ?
There are many ways that one can treat ingrates who behave expertly as back-stabbers. -
There's no need to post their photos here. It's not hiding the truth - we know the truth since we meet beggars at MRT stations on a regular basis.
Send them to the people that matter instead, the people up there with stamps pasted over their eyes - that's what we're trying to tell you. And take photos of your own as well because it'll backfire if everyone lifts those from the SDP website.
Think about it - we're not on their side, but we disagree with what you did. -
PAP guys are such great bullsh*tters.
No beggars on the streets?
Guess I know what they mean now by "gst helps the poor". Nearly everything that comes of out of their mouth is bullsh*t. -
Originally posted by sunniban:
Yes, of course he did- as shown in his post below.
Hmm, but isn't the Bear saying that we should take pics and send it to the PMO? I think it's pretty different from putting them up on a forum.
Who do you think will be the organiser of this ''unofficial campaign to take pics of the beggers and the rest of the destitute.....'' and arrange to send the pics to the PMO; or is it to be another useless ''NATO'' suggestion ?
The pics have been available as early as 2004 when SDP put it on the web, and one only wonder if our dear friend - 'The Bear' - is aware of the existence of these photos.
Perhaps not, as otherwise why will he want to raise this issue of making an ''unofficial campaign'' - and supposedly a campaign without permits ?
Does anyone here believe that the pervasive eyes of the Home Team is not aware of the issues raised by the SDP posts on the Web ?
Even without ''the Bear's'' proposal to organise such Pics to be sent to the PMO, it can be quite certain that this matter as raised by SDP and CSJ would have come to the knowledge of those MIW.
If not to the knowledge of the Cabinet, at least its Youth Wing Members and those Post-65 MPs familiar at surfing the WWW.
If the Cabinet is not informed of the existence of these photos, surely we can expect the ardent imitators of the MIW also not being aware too.
These pics will certainly benefit those skilled in the art of imitating the pseudo stature of the Cabinet Ministers - becoming like those delicious Cream Puff, except that they are only mere Puff without the essential Cream.Originally posted by the Bear:
how about we start an unofficial campaign, take pics of the beggers and the rest of the destitute...
send the pictures, location, time and date, all to the PMO..
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The SDP had compiled a similar tract at their website for the ''Poor and Destitutes'' - with accompanying famous bylines.
Here are a few samples to help kick-start your idea: -
No beggars on Singapore streets?
When was the last time he was at Queen's street leading to the Kuan Yin Temple? The underpass of AMK MRT station? I'm sure if he really open his eyes to look around he will find beggars everywhere. Sheesh -
pls just stfu n learnOriginally posted by Fatum:hey guys, I don't think it's a good idea to post these pics up eh ....
yes, we're trying to high-light a worrying social phenomenon ... but we're talking about people here .... let's give them some dignity and consideration for their "face" eh ....
how would you like if you're down and out and homeless and sleeping on the streets and your prone, sleeping pics get splashed all over the internet eh ...
we're peasants, heartlanders, we've got eyes to see .... and we know ... those that are not, won't see them anyways .... eh ...
so let's take those pics down please ...
DO U SERIOUSLY KNOW?
god wth..
if u got some effing time walk around bugis around 11-2am.
even on a rainy day u can see so many old man lying on the hard-cold concrete cement with cardbox covering only on their head to stop the water from dripping onto his face.
how would you like if you're down and out and homeless and sleeping on the streets and your prone, sleeping pics get splashed all over the internet eh ... <------------------- how would u like it if u got abandon and everyone just dont wanna give u a job because you are old, n fragile cant do any heavy work and stuff why dont our government do anything to help them? just because they are not educated to write a LETTER to mp? or maybe if they went to find a MP they would just recieve the "GET OUT OF MY ELITE FACE" thing eh?
yes, we're trying to high-light a worrying social phenomenon ... but we're talking about people here .... let's give them some dignity and consideration for their "face" eh .... <------------------ use ur effing bird brain man... face? u think they care about face? from the 1st day they know they cant do nothing else but sleep on the street.. would u consider face as a 1st priority or survival a 1st priority. Beg in the day sleep on the street at night. GOD... face... up yours dude.
im not dissing the poor or beggars in anyway as well. i just want everyone to know that they need someone to speak up for them.
PEOPLE NEED TO NOTICE STUFF LIKE THIS. not just drive ur BMW or whatever effing car u got n say oh singapore is such a safe country....no poor people how cool...eff u! -
We can argued and fight our a$$ over this matter.
This will not help these sleepers on the street.
As for the poodles in power, they dun surf the net and they dun prowl the street so they dun see.
Even so, they will give the standard answer on the various welfare packages that are given out to these people, in which no one even know they can apply or how to apply and where to apply.
In the end, it would conclude that they are already receiving "help" and they choose to "sleep" on the street as it is "cooler".
That was the answer given when they found sleepers at Chinatown.
This is the sad state of the country now.
No one is taking any responsibility for any problems.
When it come to money and glory, we will see lots of poodles coming forward to take photo and getting interviewed even it is none of their business. (Sportsman winning medal) -
I agree with kopikid.
People sleep in the streets for some reasons. Personal incidents that crippled them financially or left with no one to support them, with absolutely no one to turn to, either that or don't know whom to turn to. These people are very real, if anyone recognises them and would wish to help them there is still a chance to do that.
These people don't give a shat about their pictures on the net? What do you guys think? They go home and switch on their $5000 state of the art computer and start surfing the net? They need recognition, they need help... the government has got to start accepting that they exist and stop all that bloody bullshat. If they want to paint a rosy picture, well bloody hell, we ought to burst that little bubble shouldn't we?
We've often heard the phrase NPNT in Sgforums. For once, we are shoving these pictures in your face. Get this right, it is IN YOUR FACE!
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Congratulations. You've shot yourselves in the foot.
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are you one of them ? ... have you asked them how they feel to have their sleeping mugs splashed all over the internet ? ... because they are down and out, you assume that dignity and pride is not high on the list of their priorities ? ...Originally posted by kopikid:pls just stfu n learn
DO U SERIOUSLY KNOW?
god wth..
if u got some effing time walk around bugis around 11-2am.
even on a rainy day u can see so many old man lying on the hard-cold concrete cement with cardbox covering only on their head to stop the water from dripping onto his face.
how would you like if you're down and out and homeless and sleeping on the streets and your prone, sleeping pics get splashed all over the internet eh ... <------------------- how would u like it if u got abandon and everyone just dont wanna give u a job because you are old, n fragile cant do any heavy work and stuff why dont our government do anything to help them? just because they are not educated to write a LETTER to mp? or maybe if they went to find a MP they would just recieve the "GET OUT OF MY ELITE FACE" thing eh?
yes, we're trying to high-light a worrying social phenomenon ... but we're talking about people here .... let's give them some dignity and consideration for their "face" eh .... <------------------ use ur effing bird brain man... face? u think they care about face? from the 1st day they know they cant do nothing else but sleep on the street.. would u consider face as a 1st priority or survival a 1st priority. Beg in the day sleep on the street at night. GOD... face... up yours dude.
im not dissing the poor or beggars in anyway as well. i just want everyone to know that they need someone to speak up for them.
PEOPLE NEED TO NOTICE STUFF LIKE THIS. not just drive ur BMW or whatever effing car u got n say oh singapore is such a safe country....no poor people how cool...eff u!
oh well ... it's as bear put it, people profess to speak up for them, but in the end, they are but a tool, a means to your end ... you're using their pictures to fulfill your own agenda .... to get your own point across, not theirs ...
this is not the first time the pics were splashed up on this forum, and this is not the first time I've spoken out about this ... oh yes, I feel sorry for these people, I feel sorry that they are down and out and destitute, and I also feel sorry that unwittingly, they have pics of their wretched state splashed all over a public forum ... yes, someone needs to speak out for them, but splashing such pics up smacks of ivory tower, self righteous elitism ... (*mmmm .... smells quite like the MIW actually .... ) -
Pictures tells a thousand tales...
some or many of you here might not agree with the pictures being posted, but it did left some kind of impact, at least for me and some of my friends who have seen it,
the bottom line is, you might argue that it is not right for this poor folks faces to be splashed onto the net, but how many of YOU ARE actually forcusing at their faces and not the plight they are in? if you are more interested in their faces, you can head down to sggirls (plenty of faces) or stomp, (wow even more faces!)
dun reasonate that the poor folks pictures shouldn;t be posted here when the real issue is the plight and state of this poor people.
get real folks, if u asked me, i dun remember their faces now even as i am typing this, but i do remember the plight they are in..
pictures tells a thousand tales... -
one or two yrs ago, a programme on TV was talking about this and the host went round interviewing people who slept on the streets. Surprise and sad that since then we have not heard or read anything that the authority/govt is doing anything about it.
These people are neglected, hope the govt is compassionate and caring to help them. So far don't hear any of the govt comment on the public sleepers. -
to the gahmen.. they are 'sleepers' not 'homeless'Originally posted by zix1:one or two yrs ago, a programme on TV was talking about this and the host went round interviewing people who slept on the streets. Surprise and sad that since then we have not heard or read anything that the authority/govt is doing anything about it.
These people are neglected, hope the govt is compassionate and caring to help them. So far don't hear any of the govt comment on the public sleepers. -
yes of course, there is no denying that this is indeed a worrying social trend ....Originally posted by 4getmenot:Pictures tells a thousand tales...
some or many of you here might not agree with the pictures being posted, but it did left some kind of impact, at least for me and some of my friends who have seen it,
the bottom line is, you might argue that it is not right for this poor folks faces to be splashed onto the net, but how many of YOU ARE actually forcusing at their faces and not the plight they are in? if you are more interested in their faces, you can head down to sggirls (plenty of faces) or stomp, (wow even more faces!)
dun reasonate that the poor folks pictures shouldn;t be posted here when the real issue is the plight and state of this poor people.
get real folks, if u asked me, i dun remember their faces now even as i am typing this, but i do remember the plight they are in..
pictures tells a thousand tales...
but then again ... we're asians .... face, have an especial meaning for us ...
for sure, perhaps you won't remember the face of the rapist/molester/murderer who got his picture splashed on the cover of the newpaper, but the shame for the chap and his family would be just as real .... why else would the pappies hatch that hastily abandoned idea of showing the trail of certain obnoxious crims on TV some years ago ? ... why else would the chinese have hang ups about keeping dirt on the family under wraps ? .... hypothetically ... (touch wood for you) ... if it were a member of your own family, or even you, how would you feel ? ...
perhaps you see the situation from a macro level, a societal level, but I see everyone in the pictures as individuals, with just as much need for face and pride and need for dignity as you and I ... they are already down and out, and now they get even their face rubbed in too ? ...
yes, pictures tell a thousand words ... but they are not to be used indiscriminately ... why, for example, won't (most) TV channel air those hostage beheading videos by those camel humpers ? ... you want to high-light a social problem ? ... sure ! ... just do it by other means ... please remember that behind those pictures were actually people too ....
(and don't talk as if only certain people were aware of the situation ... I may have been away from home for the last few years but I do know what's going on ... that crippled young man sitting on the floor on the second row for example, has been around the fu lu shou and temples area for years ... that's my personal curse, I never forget a face, especially someone as wretched as he) -
From what I see, numbers of public sleepers are increasing. This does not speak well of the govt. If they continue to ignore this issue, it does not serve them any benefit, moreover it is not wise to ignore this.Originally posted by 4getmenot:to the gahmen.. they are 'sleepers' not 'homeless'
Hope some foreign journalists snap up pics and write article about it when they return to their countries. When this happens I believe govt will then do something. They want face!
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u have your opinion and i have mind..Originally posted by Fatum:yes of course, there is no denying that this is indeed a worrying social trend ....
but then again ... we're asians .... face, have an especial meaning for us ...
for sure, perhaps you won't remember the face of the rapist/molester/murderer who got his picture splashed on the cover of the newpaper, but the shame for the chap and his family would be just as real .... why else would the pappies hatch that hastily abandoned idea of showing the trail of certain obnoxious crims on TV some years ago ? ... why else would the chinese have hang ups about keeping dirt on the family under wraps ? .... hypothetically ... (touch wood for you) ... if it were a member of your own family, or even you, how would you feel ? ...
perhaps you see the situation from a macro level, a societal level, but I see everyone in the pictures as individuals, with just as much need for face and pride and need for dignity as you and I ... they are already down and out, and now they get even their face rubbed in too ? ...
yes, pictures tell a thousand words ... but they are not to be used indiscriminately ... why, for example, won't (most) TV channel air those hostage beheading videos by those camel humpers ? ... you want to high-light a social problem ? ... sure ! ... just do it by other means ... please remember that behind those pictures were actually people too ....
(and don't talk as if only certain people were aware of the situation ... I may have been away from home for the last few years but I do know what's going on ... that crippled young man sitting on the floor on the second row for example, has been around the fu lu shou and temples area for years ... that's my personal curse, I never forget a face, especially someone as wretched as he)
wats the importance of 'face' if u are down and out and nowhere to turn to?
wats the importance of 'face' if u are starving? would you rather just starve to death then?
your comparison to a picture of a shame relatives/parents of a pictured criminal or a video recording of an unfortunate combatant who got caught and beheaded is really irrelevant to tis subject
The pictures(poor folks) are not there to discrminate them or humiliate them, (sorry but your statement make me think otherwise) but rather maybe someone will take the right steps in helping out this poor folks.. -
of course ... and since there are two different camps wrt the pics, it's pointless to continue on about it ...Originally posted by 4getmenot:u have your opinion and i have mind..
wats the importance of 'face' if u are down and out and nowhere to turn to?
wats the importance of 'face' if u are starving? would you rather just starve to death then?
your comparison to a picture of a shame relatives/parents of a pictured criminal or a video recording of an unfortunate combatant who got caught and beheaded is really irrelevant to tis subject
The pictures(poor folks) are not there to discrminate them or humiliate them, (sorry but your statement make me think otherwise) but rather maybe someone will take the right steps in helping out this poor folks..
I've already answered in my previous post the "if starving, don't need face" thinking .... and if you don't see my analogy about face, or understand "face" ... then nevermind ....
I'd have been quite happy put in a few posts in support of this thread's topic, if not for the pics ...... it's sad that we're nit-picking about that, instead of focusing about the problem, but I'm sorry, my opinion about the pics won't change. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
Unfortunately, it is clever twist of words to suit one's own agenda by hiding behind a seeming ''moral high ground'' of looking after the dignity of the ''poor and destitute'', and attempting to place these pictures in a contemptuous light.
are you one of them ? ... have you asked them how they feel to have their sleeping mugs splashed all over the internet ? ... because they are down and out, you assume that dignity and pride is not high on the list of their priorities ? ...
oh well ... it's as bear put it, people profess to speak up for them, but in the end, they are but a tool, a means to your end ... you're using their pictures to fulfill your own agenda .... to get your own point across, not theirs ...
this is not the first time the pics were splashed up on this forum, and this is not the first time I've spoken out about this ... oh yes, I feel sorry for these people, I feel sorry that they are down and out and destitute, and I also feel sorry that unwittingly, they have pics of their wretched state splashed all over a public forum ... yes, someone needs to speak out for them, but splashing such pics up smacks of ivory tower, self righteous elitism ... (*mmmm .... smells quite like the MIW actually .... )
What purpose or benefits will be achieved for anyone who will post these photos of the ''poor and destitue'' on the web ?
Is there any personal glory ? - Monetary gain ? - Political popularity ?
From this Speaker's Corner ?
What is the exposure in this Speaker's Corner that these photos will get any wider publicity from the number of hits that even this thread can score ?
Seriously, if at all, the photos posted in this thread serves nothing more than its shock values to some in this Speaker's Corner who are cloisted in their Ivory Towers, and will dare to imitate the words and thoughts of the MIW - even to the extent of second guessing the Ministers, as if these imitators are Ministers themselves.
If at all, these photos in this thread, as well as in the SDP site - serves mainly to bring a heightened level of conciousness to these ''poor and destitute'' to their continued plights - AFTER they are no longer within our visual range in the day.
If these photos offend your senses of perceived ''standards of dignity'' - it goes to show your inability to accept their presence and are you being altruistic towards the dignity of these ''poor and destitute'' or that of your own senses ?
If these photos offend, it should drive one to be more pro-active in demanding that the Government and the Ruling Party should take responsibility for this outcome of their political, economic and social policies.
If LKY believe that it is the inalienable right of his Government to interfere into every aspect of the Singaporean lives, why would he stop his Government from providing 'Welfare' - even to the destitute ?
“I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn’t be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn’t be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters - who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.”
- Prime Minister Lee*Kuan*Yew, Straits^Times, 20 April 1987
Considering the hefty amounts of wage increase that the Ruling Party and the Government will give to themselves and the Civil Service, the pittance that is allocated to help the ''poor and destitute'' - and also the general ''over-taxed'' Singaporeans - is an insult to our sense of justice and fairplay.
This pain of economic, political, and social disparities is felt deeper when LKY will dare claim that it is their Right to Interfere into our Private Lives, and LHL will attempt to move us by ''Staying Together, Moving Ahead''. -
SH!T! I work hard all day and I get less than half of a beggar per day!!!!!! 10K a month!!! That's aLOT for no work!!!!Originally posted by crazy monkey:wtf ? tat means more than $10 000 a mth ?
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I ran into a homeless sleeper in Hougang. It was memorable because he went right to the trash bin beside a bus stop. In front of everyone. He fished out half finished coke and drank it and he was looking so happy to find that bottle of coke. Finished it in one gulp. Then he proceeded to find any ciggies. Squat down light up and puffed away. Then walk off as if there is not a care in the world. The guy looked late forties, light skin suggests he might be an office worker all his life. If he had a shirt and pants on, he could pass for shenton way crowd but he obviously is a homeless. It was more shocking for us than for him to see poor people.
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Look, the reality in this world is that agendas will exist.
Either you take on one, or someone will attempt to foist one on you. Sad but inevitable.
The world isn't a place for selective sight, much as we might want to take the good and leave out the bad. -
The beggers are taken away in Singapore !!!
"You go down New York, Broadway. You will see the beggars, people of the streets...Where are the beggars in Singapore? Show me."
-Lee Kuan Yew -
Remember that powerful picture of a little girl (Ms. Kim Phuk)r unning naked during the Vietnam War? That picture was a powerful message against the Vietnam war and the usage of napalm on innocent civilians.
She gave a face to the horrors of the Vietnam war, that picture allowed people to see what was really going on. People remember pictures, they don't remember words.
Likewise, people, especially Singaporeans have got to realise that homeless and destitute people exist, as much as PAP would like us to think otherwise.
Let's see him trying to deny it when these pictures are shoved in MM Lee's face. -
Heck, I wouldn't mind living in New York with visible beggars. At least that's reality.Originally posted by storywolf:The beggers are taken away in Singapore !!! -
“I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn’t be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn’t be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters - who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.”
- Prime Minister Lee*Kuan*Yew, Straits^Times, 20 April 1987
y there never quote this in the history textbook of singapore?