An observation of the true impact of GST
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Originally posted by Gazelle:
u got eat KFC or not? Why dun u so civic minded report KFC to the authorities saying why must increase $0.20 for each meal? Why must wait for others to report? Aren't u also tok cock sing song here also by not reporting?
[b]WE NEED PEOPLE'S ACTION PARTY, NOT PEOPLE'S TALKING PARTY [/b]
And Yakun Kaya Bread also....$3.70 to $3.90 even before 1st July....... -
Originally posted by soul_rage:Dear all,
The GST was just upped to 7% on Sunday (congrats to all PAP supporters who don't understand the impact). I am making my observations of some of the issues of this GST rise, anyone is free to support/contest my views
1) GST up by 2% is NOT price increase by 2%
I find that quite a bunch of Singaporeans are really stupid in this. They think that, assuming a product is $10 (excludes 5% GST of 0.50) now, then the increase of the product price after GST implementation is by only $0.20 (since 7% GST of $10 is 0.70).
What they failed to understand is that in an end-product, there are many parts in the supply chain to this product.
- Some of the suppliers are not GST-registered, and thus they cannot claim GST from the govt, thereby passing the increase in GST costs from their suppliers to the next company in the chain. This will translate to an increase in costs for the next company, which will then filter down to the end-user.
- Changes in GST, results in system changes (for large companies) or admin costs for smaller companies in that they need to make changes to their processes to adopt the 7%. This results in higher costs for companies, and they pass it on by increasing their prices
2) Companies that sell items at prices such as $11.60, for example, cannot increase their GST amt to 7% exactly, becoz it will result in 1-cents, (for the above case, its rightfully $12.41), which most probably will round it UP ($12.45 or $12.50). Becoz Singapore doesn't use 1-cent anymore, the businesses round up prices to the nearest 5 cents
3) Some restaurants, such as Delifrance, round UP the cents to make more money (just check your receipt the next time you eat with them). They are so blatant that, even if you spent for example, $21.55 (AFTER GST), they will still round it UP to $21.60. That's why I don't eat from Delifrance. They DO NOT follow the laws of mathematics. $21.51 is STILL $21.60 (still round up)
4) Hawkers raise prices at $0.50 almost all the time. I see lots of increases already in the place I stay
End of the day, I think many people are going to suffer. The GST incentive the govt give you aren't going to last too long, given that increases are more than 2%.
GST is not up by 2% but by 40%! From 5% to 7% is actually 2% more on 5% which is equal to 40% increase.
Sometimes it is not feasible for vendors to increase their prices as the same % increase in GST. Moreover there is also the snowball effect as goods pass from one supplier to another. But of course there are others who capitalised on the hike.
Ok i'll boycot Delifrance since they don't follow the laws of maths. i shall also exercise my consumer's rights by boycotting those who up their prices excessively and don't provide value for money. -
dragg is right. In fact, I'd pointed this out much earlier on your thread in a seperate post.Originally posted by soul_rage:I thought it was the other way ard?
When a company hits turnover of > 1 million, it is mandatory for them to be GST-registered -
wua lao, you don't say I also dob't know. Will boycott KFC, at least for a while. Will go toast box, kopitiam to check if they increase prices, otherwise will just support the neighborhood coffee shops, but no aircon when taking bf, a bit hot leh..Originally posted by laoda99:u got eat KFC or not? Why dun u so civic minded report KFC to the authorities saying why must increase $0.20 for each meal? Why must wait for others to report? Aren't u also tok cock sing song here also by not reporting?
And Yakun Kaya Bread also....$3.70 to $3.90 even before 1st July....... -
oh hmm... I thought it was more motivational for the govt to enforce those who reach that quota to be GST-registered, coz it means that they have to collect taxes.Originally posted by walesa:dragg is right. In fact, I'd pointed this out much earlier on your thread in a seperate post.
So if my company hits turnover 10m, I can still say I don't want to get GST-registered? -
Let me quote the post I'd initially stuck on your thread...Originally posted by soul_rage:oh hmm... I thought it was more motivational for the govt to enforce those who reach that quota to be GST-registered, coz it means that they have to collect taxes.
So if my company hits turnover 10m, I can still say I don't want to get GST-registered?
1) How many people, consciously or otherwise, actually bother to keep in mind (or even know in the first place) that GST is only applicable to businesses whose revenue exceeds S$1 million in a given year? Technically, many commercial entities (ie.hawkers, etc) do not actually collect S$1 million in revenue to begin with and would have no business to pass on any GST costs to the consumer. That said, as with any other theoretical legislations which can never be practically and efficiently enforced, increasing prices on the pretext of an increase in operational cost is more than a sufficient excuse required for profiteering. Throw in a regime so desperate for money with little regard for safeguarding consumer interests (not at the expense of businesses anyway) and what you see is effectively the ripple-effect of ill-conceived policies.
3) Though not entirely relevant, there's actually an underlying rationale behind it. In most parts of Europe and the US, for instance, you do not actually have "official" policies whereby things like "service charges" are levied in restaurants. However, most customers - on their own free will - would take the initiative to "tip" (pretty generously, I must add) and it's a gesture which is expected from the party rendering the service (be it a waiter or a cab driver). In many parts of Asia, however, such tipping cultures are not prevalent and you see "service charges" (something I personally don't endorse as I'd much rather favour the tipping system where you're not duty-bound to tip, but that's another matter) being levied instead. In view of such " inked-on-paper " policies, I would imagine it only fair then that consumers be charged for whatever "explicitly stated" charges and they be billed right down to the cent and nothing more. What seperates other countries adopting such tangible policies of billing from Singapore is indeed the rounding off process. I concur with you that it is indeed another "uniquely Singapore" scam that many business entities which actually levy explicitly-stated charges have actually got the audacity to shamelessly profit further by rounding up - instead of rounding off - the costs passed on to the consumer. I suppose the least you could do is boycott such merchants.
What dragg is trying to say is that only shops/merchants with the GST certificate (ie.their annual turnover is above $1 million) are entitled to levy GST (as in, explicitly state the cost of the item and/or GST seperately) on goods/services rendered. In other words, merchants whose revenue do not exceed $1 million cannot charge GST for the goods/services rendered - of course, we all know how easily they can get round this by using other excuses to increase the cost (bottomline is, they cannot legitimately use GST as an excuse). -
Well, many corporations like supermarkets, furniture stores, department stores, cinemas etc charge GST and these are places where Singaporeans frequent.Originally posted by walesa:What dragg is trying to say is that only shops/merchants with the GST certificate (ie.their annual turnover is above $1 million) are entitled to levy GST (as in, explicitly state the cost of the item and/or GST seperately) on goods/services rendered. In other words, merchants whose revenue do not exceed $1 million cannot charge GST for the goods/services rendered - of course, we all know how easily they can get round this by using other excuses to increase the cost (bottomline is, they cannot legitimately use GST as an excuse).
A hawker may not earn more than $1 million per year but he still spends at these places. Unscrupulous to increase prices? Maybe, but the GST increase caused this ripple effect. -
well... all these price hikes caused by increased GST sure as hell is helping the poor and the common people...
So, when's the next GST increment?? -
Thanks walesa for the elaboration as wellOriginally posted by ShutterBug:well... all these price hikes caused by increased GST sure as hell is helping the poor and the common people...
So, when's the next GST increment??
Anyway, I hear they want to increase to 10% within 10 years AFTER the 5% GST, so I think we should expect a GST of 10% within 4 to 5 years time.
And hey, it will ALWAYS be after elections
You know how our govt play ard with us -
Yesterday I read in Today, a guy going to a herbal shop wanting to buy a herbal drink found his usual drink increasing from $1.50 to $1.60
He proceeded to mention that since its 2% GST, he would expect it to be about $1.55
So he demanded an explanation from the shop owner.
What was the shop owner's reply? To summarize, its as follows:
1) Oh because if I increase the price of the drink by the 2%, then I have to deal with cents, so I would round it up to the 5 cents
2) But then if I priced it at 1.55, I have to deal with a lot of 5 cents, which would incur additional admin charges when processing 5 cents with the bank. Therefore, to ensure I don't incur the admin charge, I decided to raise to 1.60
God knows how many other retailers have done the same thing.
And a stupid animal like Gazelle keeps going ard asking people for proof -
How many Elections do you think THEY can survivie?Originally posted by soul_rage:Thanks walesa for the elaboration as well
Anyway, I hear they want to increase to 10% within 10 years AFTER the 5% GST, so I think we should expect a GST of 10% within 4 to 5 years time.
And hey, it will ALWAYS be after elections You know how our govt play ard with us
I doubt they will continue to win for long...their days are abeginning to be numbered... -
Gazelle should be go look for PROOF at hwaker centers since no one's postings here are valid to him... -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
I also read briefly the report NETS is trying lure merchant discount if they do not offer other method of cashless payment to customers.
Yesterday I read in Today, a guy going to a herbal shop wanting to buy a herbal drink found his usual drink increasing from $1.50 to $1.60
He proceeded to mention that since its 2% GST, he would expect it to be about $1.55
So he demanded an explanation from the shop owner.
What was the shop owner's reply? To summarize, its as follows:
1) Oh because if I increase the price of the drink by the 2%, then I have to deal with cents, so I would round it up to the 5 cents
2) But then if I priced it at 1.55, I have to deal with a lot of 5 cents, which [b]would incur additional admin charges when processing 5 cents with the bank. Therefore, to ensure I don't incur the admin charge, I decided to raise to 1.60
God knows how many other retailers have done the same thing.
And a stupid animal like Gazelle keeps going ard asking people for proof[/b]
It looked like they have made a mistake n refused to admit it. -
I'm sure he knows the truth already........now.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Gazelle should be go look for PROOF at hwaker centers since no one's postings here are valid to him... -
This is called: "Sticking Foot, into Own Mouth"Originally posted by will4:I also read briefly the report NETS is trying lure merchant discount if they do not offer other method of cashless payment to customers.
It looked like they have made a mistake n refused to admit it. -
Do you see the similarities?Originally posted by Rock^Star:I'm sure he knows the truth already........now.
WIth IR they implemented this Responsible Gambling initiative to curb the ill side effects of Casinos in Singapore, and with GST increase, they have this setup to stop or prevent GST Profiteering....
Utterly LPPL isn't it? -
No surprise to you right? Think high tobacco tax revenue and "smoking kills".Originally posted by ShutterBug:Do you see the similarities?
WIth IR they implemented this Responsible Gambling initiative to curb the ill side effects of Casinos in Singapore, and with GST increase, they have this setup to stop or prevent GST Profiteering....
Utterly LPPL isn't it?
We must be the only place in the world where cigarettes cost $10 per packet. -
You bet bro...!Originally posted by Rock^Star:No surprise to you right? Think high tobacco tax revenue and "smoking kills".
We must be the only place in the world where cigarettes cost $10 per packet.
Anyway, thank goodness I quit smoking... not that I can't afford, but I want to live and enjoy life after I leave this place... -
A couple of observations:
My local coffee stall is using this as an excuse to raise the price of coffee from 70 cents to 80 cents. The rationale is that 'electricity increases 2%', 'coffee beans increase 2%', etc. till we have our 10 cents. The shop-owner's logic is that each component increases the price of the end product by 2%.
Another thing. The increase should be 1.9% of the total price. For example, something that is $100 GST inclusive is split into $95.24 + $4.76GST. That original price + 7% GST comes to $101.90, and not $102 as you'd expect.
So.. my cup of coffee should cost 71.3 cents (70 cents divided by 1.05 multiplied by 1.07). At 80 cents the shop-keeper is increasing the price by 7.5 times what he should. (yes, I realise we don't have 0.3 cents or even 1 cent). -
I noticed some of the stall shut for good after the GST increase. Some of the coffeeshop after increasing prices so quiet one or two people drinking beerOriginally posted by sabaisabai:A couple of observations:
My local coffee stall is using this as an excuse to raise the price of coffee from 70 cents to 80 cents. The rationale is that 'electricity increases 2%', 'coffee beans increase 2%', etc. till we have our 10 cents. The shop-owner's logic is that each component increases the price of the end product by 2%.
Another thing. The increase should be 1.9% of the total price. For example, something that is $100 GST inclusive is split into $95.24 + $4.76GST. That original price + 7% GST comes to $101.90, and not $102 as you'd expect.
So.. my cup of coffee should cost 71.3 cents (70 cents divided by 1.05 multiplied by 1.07). At 80 cents the shop-keeper is increasing the price by 7.5 times what he should. (yes, I realise we don't have 0.3 cents or even 1 cent).
only. -
What matters is whether the costs of goods for the hawkers increase or not? if there is no increases in the costs of noodle, the costs of oil...but he increases his selling prices, then this is unscrupulous, GST increase is used as an excuse, just like petro price increases (but diesel no increase) and transportation cost increase.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Well, many corporations like supermarkets, furniture stores, department stores, cinemas etc charge GST and these are places where Singaporeans frequent.
A hawker may not earn more than $1 million per year but he still spends at these places. Unscrupulous to increase prices? Maybe, but the GST increase caused this ripple effect.
It is wrong to increase GST, but to use what is wrong to benefit oneself cannot be right!
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Definitely. As Sun Tzu put it: "The business arena is a battlefield." How many businesses are set up where social responsibility matters more than personal profit?Originally posted by sgdiehard:It is wrong to increase GST, but to use what is wrong to benefit oneself cannot be right!
It is only a universal law that the converse is true. The govt should have foreseen this. The onus of blame still falls on them eventually. -
haiz must move house to potong pasir? i think i'll just go down to toa payoh to enjoy the good and cheap food, as it should be.
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Pay MRT/Bus to Toa Payoh just to get cheaper hawker food? Might as well eat in your neighbourhood can save time on journey.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:haiz must move house to potong pasir? i think i'll just go down to toa payoh to enjoy the good and cheap food, as it should be.
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Yes, as a support to the Town Council in an opposition ward. For the time and journey you spend to support them, the people of Potong Pasir will appreciate. Thank you.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:haiz must move house to potong pasir? i think i'll just go down to toa payoh to enjoy the good and cheap food, as it should be.