World Audit on Democracy: Singapore 2 ranks above N. Korea
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Interesting 'statistical data'
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well isn;t that still a 'first' for singapore? maybe tats wat the gahmen wanted.. be first in everything..good or bad..Originally posted by snow leopard:seems like we're the only 'first' world country ranked amongst third world nations ...
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At least we are still a rank above North Korea in terms of democracy.Originally posted by 4getmenot:well isn;t that still a 'first' for singapore? maybe tats wat the gahmen wanted.. be first in everything..good or bad.. -
Thks for posting ... I dun even think our local media would even publish this ...
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Hmmm... it's a bit wierd how North Korea got last for everything but still get an overall rank of 83 though
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And Tongo who is above us by 1 rank got worse score than us on all three but beat us because their corruption level is N/A??
That's a rather strange way of ranking if you ask me. -
I guess any other views that does not support your conclusion is suspect. That is the opinion of a narrow minded individual or a despot.
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Oh, there's only 5 of those with N/A anyway, guess that's not really going to affect our ranking much, except that we shouldn't really be only 2 ranks above N.Korea.
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Suggest you write in to World Audit and ask them to amend their results to suit your purpose.Originally posted by wisefool83:Oh, there's only 5 of those with N/A anyway, guess that's not really going to affect our ranking much, except that we shouldn't really be only 2 ranks above N.Korea.
The government should sue them, if they are not sued, it means that there is some basis to World Audit's opinion. The Singapore government should take action against World Audit in a US court to prove that their report is false.
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Wa, you very Kan jiong to label me as narrow minded and despot hor? I haven't even finish all my postings. Wait lar, I'm reading and posting as I go.Originally posted by maurizio13:I guess any other views that does not support your conclusion is suspect. That is the opinion of a narrow minded individual or a despot. -
No lar, not that extreme. I'm not angry with them labelling us as not democratic or anything. But objectively speaking, the way of ranking N.Korea and 4 others so high up because they got N/A for one of their score is not very scientific mah. No?Originally posted by maurizio13:Suggest you write in to World Audit and ask them to amend their results to suit your purpose.
The government should sue them, if they are not sued, it means that there is some basis to World Audit's opinion. The Singapore government should take action against World Audit in a US court to prove that their report is false.
Plus I also think they emphasize on press freedom much more than the other 3. No? Cause the other three all only out of 7, and since there's no half points, a lot of countries will prob get the same score, so the determination of the ranking would rest heavily on press freedom.
But as their website say, they are a growing org, but I feel it's good for all of us that the points are raised isn't it? -
Strange?Originally posted by wisefool83:And Tongo who is above us by 1 rank got worse score than us on all three but beat us because their corruption level is N/A??
That's a rather strange way of ranking if you ask me.
I don't see Australia, Ireland and New Zealand being ranked under the top 15 democracies.
I believe the report is unbias, as the organisation is independent. They don't stand to gain from putting us in a bad position. It's an objective report from a unprejudicial observer, unlike the news reported by our 147th media. -
Well, whatever techniques they applied, obviously it's applied to all the countries and not limited to only Singapore. If they applied all the same techniques and the other countries came up higher ranks than us, then we have to accept the fact that we are as democratic as North Korea.Originally posted by wisefool83:No lar, not that extreme. I'm not angry with them labelling us as not democratic or anything. But objectively speaking, the way of ranking N.Korea and 4 others so high up because they got N/A for one of their score is not very scientific mah. No?
Plus I also think they emphasize on press freedom much more than the other 3. No? Cause the other three all only out of 7, and since there's no half points, a lot of countries will prob get the same score, so the determination of the ranking would rest heavily on press freedom.
But as their website say, they are a growing org, but I feel it's good for all of us that the points are raised isn't it?
Do you see countries like Australia, New Zealand and Ireland getting ranks below top 20?
Sometimes we have to accept facts, instead of cheating ourselves into thinking that we are a truly democratic regime. We are not democratic, that's it!!! -
Press freedom ranking may drop even further if the courts rule in favor of MM Lee and son, in the FEER case.
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I sure hope we don't end up in a lower ranking than North Korea. I don't know how to face the citizens of other countries.Originally posted by Jontst78:Press freedom ranking may drop even further if the courts rule in favor of MM Lee and son, in the FEER case. -
I'm not saying they are bias, I'm saying their ranking techniques has flaws. Just like you are criticising our govt in the hope that they will listen and improve, I'm also expressing my thoughts so this new org can improve.Originally posted by maurizio13:Strange?
I don't see Australia, Ireland and New Zealand being ranked under the top 15 democracies.
I believe the report is unbias, as the organisation is independent. They don't stand to gain from putting us in a bad position. It's an objective report from a unprejudicial observer, unlike the news reported by our 147th media. -
What makes you think that their ranking techniques are flawed? Is it because it didn't show a favourable picture for Singapore? Any justification for your line of reasoning? Any facts to substantiate that their techniques are flawed?Originally posted by wisefool83:I'm not saying they are bias, I'm saying their ranking techniques has flaws. Just like you are criticising our govt in the hope that they will listen and improve, I'm also expressing my thoughts so this new org can improve.
I am sure that if the ranks came out first for Singapore, you won't be criticisizing their techniques. So any opinion that does not support your cause is flawed? -
I tot Singapore's system is democratic socialist?
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That's CSJ's manifesto.Originally posted by :I tot Singapore's system is democratic socialist?
Currently, we're an illiberal democracy, with an authoritarian dominant one-party government. -
No, because of the points I've already said earlier,Originally posted by maurizio13:What makes you think that their ranking techniques are flawed? Is it because it didn't show a favourable picture for Singapore? Any justification for your line of reasoning? Any facts to show that their techniques are flawed?
1) They disregard N/A scores. Say primary school kids attend school exams with 4 subjects. A boy falls sick on the day of one of the paper that he is likely to fail. As a result his average score became much higher and consequently his class ranking rose. I mean seriously, you think N.Korea is more demoractic than Malaysia?
2) Freedom of Press's score has a much higher determination value than the other scores. Political rights and civil liberties both had only 1-7 while press freedom and corruption has 1- 150 and 145 respectively. So a lot of countries are going to share the same score on the first 2 scores, and the real differentiating points are in the latter 2 scores. It's like say you take 4 subjects, 2 of them are like your A levels scoring where you get A B and C while the other two are calculated like PSLE where every score counts. So a person who scored 69, 69 85 and 85 would get B, B + 170 and another person who score 70, 70, 84 84 would get A, A +168. The mean score for the two kids are the same, but because of the scoring calculation technique, the latter's score would look better and thus a higher rank. -
1) As explained in the methodology of World Audit, "*Our corruption rankings are based on data produced by Transparency International in which we have full confidence, but they are still a growing organisation and there remain countries listed by us, not yet monitored by them. Where the * appears in the corruption panel in the league table, we have not included any data on this, so the 5 relevant countries may be advantaged or disadvantaged in comparison with their statistical neighbours. This makes no difference however to the Division in which they are located."Originally posted by wisefool83:No, because of the points I've already said earlier,
1) They disregard N/A scores. Say primary school kids attend school exams with 4 subjects. A boy falls sick on the day of one of the paper that he is likely to fail. As a result his average score became much higher and consequently his class ranking rose. I mean seriously, you think N.Korea is more demoractic than Malaysia?
2) Freedom of Press's score has a much higher determination value than the other scores. Political rights and civil liberties both had only 1-7 while press freedom and corruption has 1- 150 and 145 respectively. So a lot of countries are going to share the same score on the first 2 scores, and the real differentiating points are in the latter 2 scores. It's like say you take 4 subjects, 2 of them are like your A levels scoring where you get A B and C while the other two are calculated like PSLE where every score counts. So a person who scored 69, 69 85 and 85 would get B, B + 170 and another person who score 70, 70, 84 84 would get A, A +168. The mean score for the two kids are the same, but because of the scoring calculation technique, the latter's score would look better and thus a higher rank.
I am not at liberty to comment about Malaysia or North Korea, I have not lived in their countries, so it would not be fair for me to make any statements.
2) I think you need more time reading the methodology. You are trying to distort the methodology to support your argument.
Countries with fewer than 1 million inhabitants are not audited.
Each country is rated on a scale of 1 to 7 by Freedom House for political rights (P) and civil liberties (C). Countries are assigned to a division (D) within our democracy table thus:
If P and C are both 1 then D=1
If P is 1 and C is 2 then D=2
If P + C is between 3 and 7 then D=3
If P + C is seven or above then D=4
Within each division positions are calculated using an average of press freedom and corruption scores. World Audit corruption scores are calculated using the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). "This is the most comprehensive index of perceptions of corruption ever published by the anti-corruption organisation, ranking 159 countries. It is a "poll of polls", drawing upon numerous distinct surveys of expert and general public views of the extent of corruption in many countries around the world".
The World Audit corruption scores (used in the World Democracy Audit) are taken from the CPI data and calculated using the following equation where T is the CPI score:
World Audit corruption score = 100 - 10T
The resulting World Audit corruption scores all lie between 0 and 100 (lower being more favourable).
The purpose of the equation is to facilitate comparison between the CPI score, which lies between 0 and 10 before the use of the equation (a higher score being more favourable), and the Press Freedom score, which lies between 0 and 100 (lower being more favourable).
E.g. Sweden:
Sweden's CPI score = 9.2
... therefore T = 9.2
WA corruption score = 100 - 10T
= 100 - (10 x 9.2)
= 100 - 92
... therefore Sweden's WA corruption score (A) = 8 out of 100
...to obtain a World Democracy Ranking this is added to the Press Freedom score
Sweden's Press Freedom score (B) = 9 out of 100
(A) + (B) = 17
Average score (A +B)/2 = 9
Comparing the average score with those of all other nations, where lowest is best, Sweden ranks 4th in the World Democracy Audit
Source:
Transparency International (TI)
Otto-Suhr-Allee 97-99 D-10585 Berlin
Germany
Tel (+49) 30-343820-0
Fax (+49) 30-34703912
Since when does it say that freedom of press is given scores of up to 150 and political rights given scores of up to 7 and the combined scores averaged out. Both corruption scores and press freedom scores are out of a possible maximum of 100.
Did you come up with your "own" methodology to distort the pictures? -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Fine, I was wrong about their methodology then. My apologise.
1) As explained in the methodology of World Audit, "*Our corruption rankings are based on data produced by Transparency International in which we have full confidence, but they are still a growing organisation and there remain countries listed by us, not yet monitored by them. Where the * appears in the corruption panel in the league table, we have not included any data on this, so the 5 relevant countries may be advantaged or disadvantaged in comparison with their statistical neighbours. This makes no difference however to the Division in which they are located."
I am not at liberty to comment about Malaysia or North Korea, I have not lived in their countries, so it would not be fair for me to make any statements.
2) I think you need more time reading the methodology. You are trying to distort the methodology to support your argument.
Countries with fewer than 1 million inhabitants are not audited.
Each country is rated on a scale of 1 to 7 by Freedom House for political rights (P) and civil liberties (C). Countries are assigned to a division (D) within our democracy table thus:
If P and C are both 1 then D=1
If P is 1 and C is 2 then D=2
If P + C is between 3 and 7 then D=3
If P + C is seven or above then D=4
Within each division positions are calculated using an average of press freedom and corruption scores. World Audit corruption scores are calculated using the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). "This is the most comprehensive index of perceptions of corruption ever published by the anti-corruption organisation, ranking 159 countries. It is a "poll of polls", drawing upon numerous distinct surveys of expert and general public views of the extent of corruption in many countries around the world".
The World Audit corruption scores (used in the World Democracy Audit) are taken from the CPI data and calculated using the following equation where T is the CPI score:
World Audit corruption score = 100 - 10T
The resulting World Audit corruption scores all lie between 0 and 100 (lower being more favourable).
The purpose of the equation is to facilitate comparison between the CPI score, which lies between 0 and 10 before the use of the equation (a higher score being more favourable), and the Press Freedom score, which lies between 0 and 100 (lower being more favourable).
E.g. Sweden:
Sweden's CPI score = 9.2
... therefore T = 9.2
WA corruption score = 100 - 10T
= 100 - (10 x 9.2)
= 100 - 92
... therefore Sweden's WA corruption score (A) = 8 out of 100
...to obtain a World Democracy Ranking this is added to the Press Freedom score
Sweden's Press Freedom score (B) = 9 out of 100
(A) + (B) = 17
Average score (A +B)/2 = 9
Comparing the average score with those of all other nations, where lowest is best, Sweden ranks 4th in the World Democracy Audit
Source:
Transparency International (TI)
Otto-Suhr-Allee 97-99 D-10585 Berlin
Germany
Tel (+49) 30-343820-0
Fax (+49) 30-34703912
Since when does it say that freedom of press is given scores of up to 150 and political rights given scores of up to 7 and the combined scores averaged out. Both corruption scores and press freedom scores are out of a possible maximum of 100.
Did you come up with your [b]"own" methodology to distort the pictures?
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However, after I've read the link you directed me to, I'm still not satisfied with their methodology. Primarily because of their division method. At this point, you will have to excuse me for using Malaysia and N.Korea again as an example, for even though you are a resident in neither states, but gathering from what we can from all sources of news, not just ST which you may despise, there should be sufficient confidence that Malaysia is comparatively more democratic than N.Korea. Even the report's own data showed that Malaysia scored better in all three comparable statistics. But because of the division method used, it's democratic ranking is below N.Korea. At this point in time, my previous eg of the A levels scores with the PSLE scores is still relevant. Even though Malaysia scores better in both political and civil liberties, it's under the same divison as N.Korea. It's like somebody scored 44 for a test and another score 2, yet both get the same grade of F9. This also means that a state which scores better in political and civil liberties by a bit which pushes them up the next grade would be better off than whoever is below irrelevance of both it's freedom of press and corruption scores. Clearly, this is an inaccurate manner of ranking.
and with regards toSince when does it say that freedom of press is given scores of up to 150 and political rights given scores of up to 7 and the combined scores averaged out. Both corruption scores and press freedom scores are out of a possible maximum of 100.
I was referring to the range http://www.worldaudit.org/countries/singapore.htm in which it shows Political Rights : 1-7, Civil Liberties: 1-7, Press Freedom : 0-150 and Corruption: 0-145.
And please stop utilising languages with taunting tone, for it provokes men even of the mildest temper into an exchange of words rather than ideas -
What Hell Good will all these Rankings and Numero Uno status do for us??
... besides inflating the egos of the government? -
Your link is to an entirely different topic.
Please read the methodology again, on how they arrive at the figures. -
I was trying to explain what I was previously referring to.Originally posted by maurizio13:Your link is to an entirely different topic.
Please read the methodology again, on how they arrive at the figures.