the PAP government
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living in the past, will not solve or change today's form or governance... -
Here's a thoughtful site, with lots of articles from thoughtful people...
>> http://www.thinkcentre.org/index.cfm -
thats trueOriginally posted by ShutterBug:living in the past, will not solve or change today's form or governance...
and we also have to differentiate a few issues
that giving respect to the Old Guards (because some people here keep quoting them) is different from giving respect to the current team
and that appreciating them should never take over our desire for improvement and progress in the society
in fact, i do question the purpose of this thread, that since people make such distinctions, why are we still hanging on to the past, or comparing ourselves to worse nations to make ourselves feel better? -
Originally posted by unclebutcher:
It is been said that respect is earned not deserved.
my intention for this thread is to ask fellow forumnites to think about what the PAP has done for us in the past. i am not saying that they will always be an infallible party. i'm just saying that this is the party that has brought Singapore thus far; at least accord them [b]some respect.[/b][/b] -
Originally posted by unclebutcher:
my intention for this thread is to ask fellow forumnites to think about what the PAP has done for us in the past. i am not saying that they will always be an infallible party. i'm just saying that this is the party that has brought Singapore thus far; at least accord them [b]some respect.[/b][/b]
i only know that, everything is increasing ever since HL take charge.
yet i didn't see any service improvement. -
service performance of service sector is not related to PAP, unless u r talking about service of the government sector... which has not been improving since way before HL took chargeOriginally posted by leilan84:
i only know that, everything is increasing ever since HL take charge.
yet i didn't see any service improvement. -
is there any difference between the classes in sg?Originally posted by crazy monkey:still under the british ? and be second-class citizens ?
well.. the gov seems to value the Prs more
to them, sillyporean when they turn old is nothing but just a burden! -
Going by your line of reasoning, is there anything to suggest Singapore would not have attained the Swedish, Finnish or Swiss living standards if the fascists had not been in power?Originally posted by unclebutcher:without them, would you like to be a communist? or how about a standard of living like indonesia or malaysia? -
When there was a good opportunity for our own educated and enthusiastic entrepreneurs and the people to build a first world economy during the 1970s, and 1980s, because of suppressive policies aimed to ensuring superficial success of government and its own few elites, many true talents who could create jobs for citizens have by then already left the country.Originally posted by walesa:Going by your line of reasoning, is there anything to suggest Singapore would not have attained the Swedish, Finnish or Swiss living standards if the fascists had not been in power?
Singapore missed a chance to restructure itself to another Finland, Switzerland because of wrong policies in the past that aimed at only taxing and building up leaders' own self-centred superficial success story of a few. -
Originally posted by leilan84:
i only know that, everything is increasing ever since HL take charge.
yet i didn't see any service improvement.
Service from the govt sector has not been improving, some have become worst, for eg, service from the govt hospital. What else is improving since lhl took over, really I think of nothing, except his pay and everything that concerns $$$ is increasing, GST, utility bill, hospital fees/bills, ministersÂ’ pay, and others you can add on the list. Base on these, canÂ’t blame people if we think that he lhl is in as PM just to make lots of $$$ and this probably takes priority over serving the people of Singapore.Originally posted by eagle:service performance of service sector is not related to PAP, unless u r talking about service of the government sector... which has not been improving since way before HL took charge -
History is not present. History only teaches you not to make the same mistake for the future as well as present.
I won't discredit the PAP, they have done a lot to make the present Singapore. However, remember that there are also others. -
i rather applaud the masses who built the nation, ie, our grandparents and parents generation
They are the one who did all the hard work but need not write that into history book to praise themselves
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Interesting article:
"CNA- Various reasons have been given for the unabashedly pro-government stand of the Singapore media: Restrictive media and libel laws, journalists who have surrendered to the Government or been convinced by its argument that an unbridled press is not for Singapore, general public support for the Government by readers who believe Mr Lee Kuan Yew and his team are always right because they have delivered an economic miracle.
Another reason, not well-documented and hardly articulated in public discussions, is how the media has benefited from the Government's delivery of economic growth. Like nearly everything else here, it is money that drives this place. Minister Mentor Lee said as much over the weekend.
"Once you have growth, all problems can be managed," he said in his pragmatic and straight-talking style about Singapore's success.
Good economic growth means more advertising dollars for media companies, which means higher salaries for editors and journalists, which means don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg. And which means support a government that delivers.
So far, so good. But last year, something happened that might put a strain on this cosy relationship between economic and advertising growth.
For the first time, a yawning gap between economic and advertising growth has got media owners worried. A double whammy is at work here.
Some of the top advertisers, such as SingTel and Asia Pacific Breweries, are getting more and more of their revenue from outside Singapore.
Advertising dollars are being channelled to countries where these companies are opening up new operations. Why should such companies continue to put all their ad dollars in Singapore?
Then, the new businesses that are coming here are very different in nature, using Singapore as a launching pad to the region.
One example is Olam International, an agricultural commodities firm which is listed here. However, its revenue ? 100 per cent of it ? comes from outside Singapore.
Why should such outfits advertise in our media?
Throw the slow but pervasive influence of alternative news and information-on-the-go, though not so pronounced and immediate yet, into the pot and you have a media meltdown in the making.
So, what are the media managers doing? Opening up new revenue streams by investing overseas, kick-starting alternative media ventures and wooing expatriate readers who are surging into Singapore now that the floodgates have been thrown wide open.
But these are slow-burn measures, risky and tentative. What is more important is to relook the kind of news in our media.
Today, domestic news coverage has got an over-emphasis on government information, with nearly every item containing a mention of a minister, government policy or view.
The end result is that the news gets predictable and even boring, as one group of young Singaporeans said during a focus group discussion.
"Isn't there any other news to report?" asked an exasperated 27-year-old woman.
That view reverberated in different tones in other discussions. Many said they are switching off and getting their news fix elsewhere.
With the Government at the centre of nearly every news activity here and with journalists not trying actively and aggressively enough to provide more news and views that are completely off the government news radar screen, you are going to see more deserters.
Before a gaping readership hole takes hold, the media practitioners have got to get a handle on redefining the concept of news.
For a start, regurgitating a VIP's speech, reporting an event just because a VIP is present, taking one inconsequential story and running with it over a number of pages and over-killing murder stories must stop.
Instead, people, events and issues not on the news radar screens must see more play.
The Sunday Times, with its heavier emphasis on human interest stories, is trying to do that.
The new Weekend TODAY, with its issue-based stories sprinkled among its news pages, is another effort to move away from the traditional definition of news.
These are work-in-progress efforts. How effective these are and whether more radical attempts are needed rest with the four stakeholders in the business ? journalists, readers, advertisers and the Government.
They need to be clear about the dynamics at play, and take on ? and be allowed to take on ? daring moves and makeovers that will make The Sunday Times and Weekend TODAY changes look minor. - "
So PAP governemt trying to tell us they don't control the media? -
If the media realises that they will be facing a huge monetary loss, they will have to decide if they want to still pursue the profit motive, because that will mean moving more towards a liberal, reader-based content drive.
That may well require a strong move by the SPH board to reject any state influence over their corporate philosophy if it will mean a barrier to greater profits. -
Heheheee...
How tightly and long can one hold on to power in such a manner??
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oh no.. i think i ownz u..Originally posted by crazy monkey:if you think you are then you are.
me >>>> crazymonkey -
Last time I tend to support the PAP, maybe due to all the propaganda
But now, I learn more of how the system work in the country and the PAP through reading books that I had borrowed in the library or surfing through the net. I think one should open up yourself than rather closing the doors and not learning any new things which can degenerate one's brain.
Sometimes will have discussion with people over this kind of matters especially my teacher who have studied in Australia and had shared with me the experience and compared the both government.
My father will think that I am crazy that I support the opposition and sometimes crticise the PAP.
Sometimes, I will also say discuss issues with my teachers which sometimes tend to be on an anti-government and luckily they were able to discuss over it with me.
With all this, I think it is still enough for me as I just learnt it from other people experience and reading through the books. I think that I should experience myself in this kind of situation to know more of this better. But I think that our local schools do not offer it to us occasionally. The only time that I managed to talk to a MP was this year where my school had organised a talk and the MP was the GOH. After that was mingling session and I asked him about the GRC system. The way he answered it did not satisfy me -
it seems that ts has never heard of the phrase: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.Originally posted by kivine:To TS:
this is nonsense. It doesnt mean that they did something right in the past means that they will be right in the present or in the future.
Look at the situation now (NOT before) and vote wisely. -
I think the last straw for me was when those MPs wanted to spend time learning hip hop instead of spending more time helping the needy.
Haiz. -
Agree.Originally posted by laurence82:so?
past performance is not an indicator of future ones
we can appreciate them, but that should never be the only thing, neither should it inhibit our quest for progress in the society -
Good start.Originally posted by gorby107:Last time I tend to support the PAP, maybe due to all the propaganda
But now, I learn more of how the system work in the country and the PAP through reading books that I had borrowed in the library or surfing through the net. I think one should open up yourself than rather closing the doors and not learning any new things which can degenerate one's brain.
Sometimes will have discussion with people over this kind of matters especially my teacher who have studied in Australia and had shared with me the experience and compared the both government.
My father will think that I am crazy that I support the opposition and sometimes crticise the PAP.
Sometimes, I will also say discuss issues with my teachers which sometimes tend to be on an anti-government and luckily they were able to discuss over it with me.
With all this, I think it is still enough for me as I just learnt it from other people experience and reading through the books. I think that I should experience myself in this kind of situation to know more of this better. But I think that our local schools do not offer it to us occasionally. The only time that I managed to talk to a MP was this year where my school had organised a talk and the MP was the GOH. After that was mingling session and I asked him about the GRC system. The way he answered it did not satisfy me
A growing nation needs more informed citizens, not those who only believe what they have seen, and instantly dismiss anything else. -
I came to this thread late
But to Threadstarter,
if you don't start crediting the people of Singapore for their MAJOR role in making Singapore succeed, then don't bother discussing this further.
For far too long, we are made to believe that Singapore today is 100% PAP's credit, when in fact, without the people working hard, Singapore will not reach today's status
So unless you start giving the average Singaporean the due credit, and STOP saying that the country is PAP's, then don't bother even discussing anything here, coz you won't understand. -
it is common sense that a country is not built by only one person or the govt only. The people of the country are also contributors to the growth. It is not fair to keep claiming credit for themselves and just "throw" the people aside. Isn't politics involves the people, so where do these people stand where nation building is concerned? Give the people credit where credit is due.Originally posted by soul_rage:I came to this thread late
But to Threadstarter,
if you don't start crediting the people of Singapore for their MAJOR role in making Singapore succeed, then don't bother discussing this further.
For far too long, we are made to believe that Singapore today is 100% PAP's credit, when in fact, without the people working hard, Singapore will not reach today's status
So unless you start giving the average Singaporean the due credit, and STOP saying that the country is PAP's, then don't bother even discussing anything here, coz you won't understand. -
Correction: to be fair to both sides, the ruling party provided the leadership while the people provide the means and resources to act as the undying engine room.Originally posted by soul_rage:I came to this thread late
But to Threadstarter,
if you don't start crediting the people of Singapore for their MAJOR role in making Singapore succeed, then don't bother discussing this further.
For far too long, we are made to believe that Singapore today is 100% PAP's credit, when in fact, without the people working hard, Singapore will not reach today's status
So unless you start giving the average Singaporean the due credit, and STOP saying that the country is PAP's, then don't bother even discussing anything here, coz you won't understand.
As in the case of animal farm, the pigs will subsequently separate themselves into a higher caste, relegating the donkey, horse and other farm animals to the common rabble and usurping the role of the farmer. -
correction,Originally posted by BillyBong:Correction: to be fair to both sides, the ruling party provided the leadership while the people provide the means and resources to act as the undying engine room.
As in the case of animal farm, the pigs will subsequently separate themselves into a higher caste, relegating the donkey, horse and other farm animals to the common rabble and usurping the role of the farmer.
the pigs have been blowing their trumpets for far too long. I don't see the need to help them blow their trumpet by reminding ourselves that they are blowing the trumpet about their leadership
I am highlighting the credit for the donkey, the horse, and the other farm animals as I believe that their contribution has been grossly understated.