the PAP government
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agreeOriginally posted by zix1:just don't see any good reason why this chap with the ID daddy created such a fuss on the response of people to the pay rise of the govt.
to me he sounds like the consumer who would buy a sofa without even checking if the sofa is worth the price (quality, brand, etc), only to go back home and find it is an inferior product -
This, has nothing to do with what the US have done to Iraq, but from lame reasons to hogwash, the bottom line objective is OIL.... when money and power is concern, there is no room for TRUTHS.Originally posted by Daddy!!:from your response, lets take it that you did not and gave up understanding directly from the ministers for policies which you think negatively of. in other words, based on mass media and the result of a few bad policies, you make a conclusion. you could not and did not verify before concluding.
because the govt make public policies, there are official statements or reasons to support them, just like in private sector. normally there are other factors at work which would not be discussed openly. let me give you an example.
US invaded Iraq unilaterally with a few coalition countries against the wishes the majority of the united nations and security council. The official statements were weapons of mass desstruction and spreading democracy in middle east through Iraq. Do the rest of the world really believe in the official statements? are official statements always telling the whole truth?
likewise, when the ministers got a big pay rise, the reason might not convince everyone. the next question is, what then is the real truth? the real truth can be good, it can be bad too. it is up to our imaginations. I can easily imagine a few good reasons why they do it. you certainly imagined the bad ones. but you and myself are none the wiser. only when we make the extra effort to discover the real truth, it is back down to speculation.
The public is only left with the option to speculate because the gov hardly ever sincerely communicate with the public, the policies they implement except for simply anouncing its implementation. Transparency is just a fancy term, its meaning adopted and modified beyong original defiinition.
But I do agree there some little things they have done over the recent years that benefited the people to some extent, such as allowing for Home Businesses, and for individuals to pedal services and goods in HDB estates provided they register themselves.
However, over the years, whatever good they have done, has been buried by the number of increases in basic needs and essentials such as Tarriffs, Public Transport, School Fees, HealthCare (hospital charges), GST, Season Parking in HDB MSCPs, and etc...
They give a dollar, but takes back 50 dollars...!
My fellow forumer, the bad they have done, far out-weighs the good they have shown us... -
i think you missed what i wrote. it is okay. i shall re-write it.Originally posted by zix1:to the person with ID "Daddy", you have yet to reply to my question on how to verify info. PLease reply. Looks like "daddy" is into pinning down people who voice out concerns about what the govt is doing or has been doing.
Cool, you who have the ID "Daddy", take it easy, why be so hard on people who just merely voice out concerns. Everyone is entitled to our own views, so there is no way for you to stop people. Be reasonable.
there are a few ways that we can try. a) find opportunities to talk to ministers (like the coffee shop exampl), because it is a chit chat, it is not official. so we can talk freely. b) join PAP party and find out the truth.
i am certainly not pinning down on anyone. certainly not my intention. I am simply talking seeking truth the personal way rather than concluding on what we read on newspapers and forums.
I do appreciate the quality of facts contributed by some forumers here. but i think it is insufficient to draw any conclusions based on them. -
Let's keep the matter to Singapore.Originally posted by Daddy!!:Did USA justify their invasion of iraq convincingly?
the american citizens themselves are unhappy but the us govt insisted to fight on. "In the eyes of the american public, they did not justify their reasons well because the money used is TAXPAYERS' money. "
what you wrote about that happen in singapore already happened in usa long ago.
are the american govt ignorant? i bet my last cent on it that they are a brilliant bunch of people deserving our respect.
then why is the usa govt not providing the real truth or real reasons over the iraq war to their people? there are other factors which could not be discussed openly in public by public figures.
same thing happens in every countries. and it happen in singapore too.
the onus is on you and me to dig up the truth. otherwise, we simply dont know.
US too far away. Don't know. Don't care. You are now telling me to care about the sofa that is sold in USA, of a different brand, type, price, etc. and is being bought by someone else
To me, I am only concerned with how my money is spent. And simply put, it makes NO SENSE that our politicians are paid 3 to 4x more than the most powerful politician in the world, when we are one of the SMALLEST countries in the world.
Now I can liken you to a person buying a digital cam for $3,000 in Sim Lim Tower, when the same digital cam (or if you compare the most powerful politician to a digital cam, a BETTER digital cam) is sold for $1,000 or less somewhere else.
And, Aren't you also speculating they are a brilliant bunch? They could also be just downright stupid. -
Sounds like a Gov Agent to me....Originally posted by zix1:just don't see any good reason why this chap with the ID daddy created such a fuss on the response of people to the pay rise of the govt. -
If you want real facts, go talk to old folks who are sitting around in void decks...Originally posted by Daddy!!:i think you missed what i wrote. it is okay. i shall re-write it.
there are a few ways that we can try. a) find opportunities to talk to ministers (like the coffee shop exampl), because it is a chit chat, it is not official. so we can talk freely. b) join PAP party and find out the truth.
i am certainly not pinning down on anyone. certainly not my intention. I am simply talking seeking truth the personal way rather than concluding on what we read on newspapers and forums.
I do appreciate the quality of facts contributed by some forumers here. but i think it is insufficient to draw any conclusions based on them.
Go talk to those who are collecting drink cans and cardboards and boxes...
Go talk to someone really sick and sitting in the waiting halls of Polyclinics...
and see what "facts" you will get in return...
The facts are all over the island of Singapore!!!!! What the fark is there to varify??? -
just to push this illustration a bit further and hope you dont mind.Originally posted by ShutterBug:This, has nothing to do with what the US have done to Iraq, but from lame reasons to hogwash, the bottom line objective is OIL.... when money and power is concern, there is no room for TRUTHS.
You imagined it is about OIL and money.
Others imagine it is not about OIL.
I imagine it is not necessarily a bad decision to invade iraq even when the US government did not tell the truth.
If there is no room for truths, which you admitted, then dont you think it is unethical to shoot PAP ministers down as if you know all the truths? -
Again I emphasize:Originally posted by ShutterBug:If you want real facts, go talk to old folks who are sitting around in void decks...
Go talk to those who are collecting drink cans and cardboards and boxes...
Go talk to someone really sick and sitting in the waiting halls of Polyclinics...
and see what "facts" you will get in return...
The facts are all over the island of Singapore!!!!! What the fark is there to varify???
See with your Heart, not with your eyes
People who see with your eyes only see LKY saying Singapore is now in a golden age, when I see more and more poor people on the streets.
There are several people here who choose to shut their hearts and ignore the plight of the general Singaporean (people like Gazelle), I hope poster Daddy! is not one of them -
he sounds like one to me. why on earth he wanna go round talking people out of it. MPs don't have time to have coffee with the residents. I have got people who are in need of the MP's help, went to the meet the people session, they are blocked and they have to beg to see the MP then they were allowed to. So he thinks to have coffee with MPs and talk to them check with them about facts is that easy. If they are out in the coffee shops, it is their private time.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Sounds like a Gov Agent to me.... -
While true that TRUTHS find no room in between Money and Power, what we cannot do about the ethics of the US governement has no bearing on what we are discussing here, which is basically LOCAL.Originally posted by Daddy!!:just to push this illustration a bit further and hope you dont mind.
You imagined it is about OIL and money.
Others imagine it is not about OIL.
I imagine it is not necessarily a bad decision to invade iraq even when the US government did not tell the truth.
If there is no room for truths, which you admitted, then dont you think it is unethical to shoot PAP ministers down as if you know all the truths?
And since it is a LOCAL concern, we should not discount the possibility and likelihood of their eventual fall from power due to growing unpopularity mongst the locals.... -
based on what do you think i am a gov agent? you are really good with imaginations. use this talent wisely.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Sounds like a Gov Agent to me.... -
[quote]Originally posted by Daddy!!:
[b]
just to push this illustration a bit further and hope you dont mind.
You imagined it is about OIL and money.
Others imagine it is not about OIL.
I imagine it is not necessarily a bad decision to invade iraq even when the US government did not tell the truth.
If there is no room for truths, which you admitted, then dont you think it is unethical to shoot
you adopt such attitude towards the people here, then I think you will also be dissatisfied with many other people in Singapore. If you are so concern, go publish in thenewspapers to tell people not to shoot the PAP. YOu are very unreasonably, and have unrealistic expectations on people. If you wanna be so pro PAP, nobody is stopping you but don't come here to lecture us. -
Based on your very polite and tenacious attempts at brain-washing all of us in here...Originally posted by Daddy!!:based on what do you think i am a gov agent? you are really good with imaginations. use this talent wisely. -
he is just merely talking out of the context by quoting the US. He can't accept the reality in Singapore and yet wanna talk about other country. Or is he attempting to stop people here from talking about the way the govt is by talking about US to divert the attention of the people here. So far all he talks about does not make sense.Originally posted by ShutterBug:While true that TRUTHS find no room in between Money and Power, what we cannot do about the ethics of the US governement has no bearing on what we are discussing here, which is basically LOCAL.
And since it is a LOCAL concern, we should not discount the possibility and likelihood of their eventual fall from power due to growing unpopularity mongst the locals.... -
I'd love to watch you argue with Honorable Atobe in here....Originally posted by Daddy!!:based on what do you think i am a gov agent? you are really good with imaginations. use this talent wisely.
he will turn you into so much chum.... -
there are many singaporeans who are doing well. i guess you say, ah, they do well because it is because they work hard.Originally posted by ShutterBug:If you want real facts, go talk to old folks who are sitting around in void decks...
Go talk to those who are collecting drink cans and cardboards and boxes...
Go talk to someone really sick and sitting in the waiting halls of Polyclinics...
and see what "facts" you will get in return...
The facts are all over the island of Singapore!!!!! What the fark is there to varify???
for the examples you give above, you push them all to the government. -
there are many singaporeans who are doing well. i guess you say, ah, they do well because it is because they work hard.Originally posted by ShutterBug:If you want real facts, go talk to old folks who are sitting around in void decks...
Go talk to those who are collecting drink cans and cardboards and boxes...
Go talk to someone really sick and sitting in the waiting halls of Polyclinics...
and see what "facts" you will get in return...
The facts are all over the island of Singapore!!!!! What the fark is there to varify???
for the examples you give above, you push them all to the government. -
like what i said in my post above, go publish in the local papers to tell people not to shoot at the PAP govt. There is no point of you coming here to change people. YOu are simply wasting you time and effort here.Originally posted by Daddy!!:there are many singaporeans who are doing well. i guess you say, ah, they do well because it is because they work hard.
for the examples you give above, you push them all to the government. -
lets assume the americans could not get the real truths out from their own leaders. USA is a democratic country. if in a democratic country like usa, such thing also happen. what about singapore and the rest of the western democracies?Originally posted by ShutterBug:While true that TRUTHS find no room in between Money and Power, what we cannot do about the ethics of the US governement has no bearing on what we are discussing here, which is basically LOCAL.
And since it is a LOCAL concern, we should not discount the possibility and likelihood of their eventual fall from power due to growing unpopularity mongst the locals....
the world might be just like it is. singapore is not an ananomy. -
Looks like the person with the ID "Daddy" is targetting at Shutterbug.
Come on, to the person with ID daddy, don't be so harsh on people here. You will be very happy there on the govt/PAP website, you can praise them there for good for bad, so why waste your time here? but if you want to be here, be reasonable to the people in this forum. don't attempt to stop people from voicing out. -
I like to give this to you; yes true, some locals have succeeded financially either through sheer hardwork and frugality, with a good does of common sense in money management. And some have pure good luck, and those born with Silver Spoon sticking out of the asses...Originally posted by Daddy!!:there are many singaporeans who are doing well. i guess you say, ah, they do well because it is because they work hard.
for the examples you give above, you push them all to the government.
Yes, those destitutes and poor souls living off the streets, I blame the Gov. Why? Because they are supposedly The BEST government in the whole world. The rest are mediocre... and they are astronomically paid so they are UNLIKELY to be corrupted.. also, their CPF policies ENSURES everyone can feed themselves in old age, as well as medical costs...
For a gov that proclaims World Class Standards in all that they do, I and we, shall expect nothing less than PERFECTION... -
This is Singapore we are talking about Singapore not the US.Originally posted by Daddy!!:lets assume the americans could not get the real truths out from their own leaders. USA is a democratic country. if in a democratic country like usa, such thing also happen. what about singapore and the rest of the western democracies?
the world might be just like it is. singapore is not an ananomy. -
OT = Off TopicOriginally posted by Daddy!!:lets assume the americans could not get the real truths out from their own leaders. USA is a democratic country. if in a democratic country like usa, such thing also happen. what about singapore and the rest of the western democracies?
the world might be just like it is. singapore is not an ananomy. -
thanks for your warning. my intention is not to argue. like you, i write my thoughts. in this case, i say seek the truth then decide.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I'd love to watch you argue with Honorable Atobe in here....
he will turn you into so much chum.... -
If he insists he wanna talk about US, suggest he starts his own thread.Originally posted by ShutterBug:OT = Off Topic