PM's son charged & reprimaned
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
It is unfortunate that he had to be LHL's son, which got him even more focused into my cross-hair of disgust at anyone who will break my ALL IMPORTANT VALUE of the VERY ESSENTIAL 'Esprit de Corp' amongst the SAF Rank and File.
Atobe, I would look at this from a long-term strategic angle.
Don't bay for his blood just because he's LHL's son.
The fact that he is LHL's son - and knowing his own superior lineage - is no excuse for the familiar arrogance that refuse to accept the chain of command, and allowed him to bust the entire SAF.
With direct and immediate access to his father, could he not discussed this matter with him, and seek counsel ? Even if he could not reach his father, he could discuss this issue with his mother, who at least would have his father's ear in the evenings ?
Or should we take a dimmer view that both parents have rejected the notion of mis-management in the SAF, which led him to shoot his accusations in all directions so as to stir the hornets' nest and get the attention that a 'Young Stud' think he deserves ?
If one is take a long-term strategic view of this incident - it brings into question the ''extent of these abuses and excesses'' in the SAF Leadership, and how this managed to escape the checks creatively imposed without infringing the 'initiative' of the SAF Leaderhip ?
Surely, this is not the first time that such abuses and excess from the SAF Officer Corp that existed in the forty odd years of the SAF history since 1967 ?
The SAF Officers Corp provide the 'Main Leadership' and 'Motivational Inpetus' for the entire SAF, and each Unit Command has an accepted leeway in its manner of leadership - if not as a matter of Principle, at least as a matter of Managerial Fact.
Why will MINDEF accept and allow a 'Young Stud' - even from a superior lineage - to behave with such petty arrogance and impunity ?
Why will MINDEF not support the SAF Officer Corp instead, and preserve the all important 'esprit de corp' of each unit - even as much as this not being a call ''to sweep matters under the carpet'' ?
'Insubordination' is the only word that descibe the act of this 'Young Stud', who clearly showed his petty contempt towards his superior officer, and that of his fellow officers.
If such behaviour is accepted, and this 'Young Stud' is not charged with insubordination but let off with a 'slap on the wrist' - it will allow further petty allegations to be made, and it will mean that MINDEF can only be forced to react when adverse publicity are made in the widest possible manner.
For the longer term, are we condoning the fact that Super Young Studs' with superior Political lineage - shall have a bigger say in the manner that the SAF Units are to be managed ? -
another power given to the elites. another blind spot.Originally posted by Stoat:Agree x2. Let's hope he doesn't get discouraged by all the mindless troublemakers baying for blood just because he's the PM's son. Seriously why do these people complain so much when someone does something to right the system for once? A bunch of silly geese if you ask me...
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actually i think when he was typing that letter he wasn't having that state of mind that he was the PM LEE's son la. he probably did that as an individual, his own mindset and how he decided to settle the problem. why can't we just judge the entire matter from his view AS A PERSON. not PM's son. besides, i think he would still do it even if he isn't the son of a PM la. then the news report would probably be smaller-scale lo. anyway he shouldn't have vastly broadcast it as much as he wanted to stand up against wrong doings. please la, there are just so many ways things can be done to solve injustice done in the army. adult liao still play this kind of stuff.Originally posted by lakopi:wonder if he will dare to do this if he isn't the son of u know who.. -
So we are seeing the next generation striking political goal already. And I am sure few years down the road this will be site as an excellent case for his courage to stand up against authority!!! Given that there are now people who think this is cool. Is this how we are going to see in future to break the traditional trend and take the leap But only for the Elites.Originally posted by Atobe:It is unfortunate that he had to be LHL's son, which got him even more focused into my cross-hair of disgust at anyone who will break my ALL IMPORTANT VALUE of the VERY ESSENTIAL 'Esprit de Corp' amongst the SAF Rank and File.
The fact that he is LHL's son - and knowing his own superior lineage - is no excuse for the familiar arrogance that refuse to accept the chain of command, and allowed him to bust the entire SAF.
With direct and immediate access to his father, could he not discussed this matter with him, and seek counsel ? Even if he could not reach his father, he could discuss this issue with his mother, who at least would have his father's ear in the evenings ?
Or should we take a dimmer view that both parents have rejected the notion of mis-management in the SAF, which led him to shoot his accusations in all directions so as to stir the hornets' nest and get the attention that a 'Young Stud' think he deserves ?
If one is take a long-term strategic view of this incident - it brings into question the ''extent of these abuses and excesses'' in the SAF Leadership, and how this managed to escape the checks creatively imposed without infringing the 'initiative' of the SAF Leaderhip ?
Surely, this is not the first time that such abuses and excess from the SAF Officer Corp that existed in the forty odd years of the SAF history since 1967 ?
The SAF Officers Corp provide the 'Main Leadership' and 'Motivational Inpetus' for the entire SAF, and each Unit Command has an accepted leeway in its manner of leadership - if not as a matter of Principle, at least as a matter of Managerial Fact.
Why will MINDEF accept and allow a 'Young Stud' - even from a superior lineage - to behave with such petty arrogance and impunity ?
Why will MINDEF not support the SAF Officer Corp instead, and preserve the all important 'esprit de corp' of each unit - even as much as this not being a call ''to sweep matters under the carpet'' ?
'Insubordination' is the only word that descibe the act of this 'Young Stud', who clearly showed his petty contempt towards his superior officer, and that of his fellow officers.
If such behaviour is accepted, and this 'Young Stud' is not charged with insubordination but let off with a 'slap on the wrist' - it will allow further petty allegations to be made, and it will mean that MINDEF can only be forced to react with adverse publicity being made in the widest possible manner.
For the longer term, are we condoning the fact that Super Young Studs' with superior Political lineage - shall have a bigger say in the manner that the SAF Units are to be managed ?
All other individual pls stand aside.
As much as I think Mindef need to shake up, but I just think that mocking military instituion that we spend years building it doesn't have much respect for it. The fancy Tank, Plane, weapon don't mean a thing if we don't even respect our institution. just No eyes to see. -
Probably he has aspiration to be PM one day and that he is using the camp as a "training" ground to see how far can he go to attain what he wants.Originally posted by Atobe:It is unfortunate that he had to be LHL's son, which got him even more focused into my cross-hair of disgust at anyone who will break my ALL IMPORTANT VALUE of the VERY ESSENTIAL 'Esprit de Corp' amongst the SAF Rank and File.
The fact that he is LHL's son - and knowing his own superior lineage - is no excuse for the familiar arrogance that refuse to accept the chain of command, and allowed him to bust the entire SAF.
With direct and immediate access to his father, could he not discussed this matter with him, and seek counsel ? Even if he could not reach his father, he could discuss this issue with his mother, who at least would have his father's ear in the evenings ?
Or should we take a dimmer view that both parents have rejected the notion of mis-management in the SAF, which led him to shoot his accusations in all directions so as to stir the hornets' nest and get the attention that a 'Young Stud' think he deserves ?
If one is take a long-term strategic view of this incident - it brings into question the ''extent of these abuses and excesses'' in the SAF Leadership, and how this managed to escape the checks creatively imposed without infringing the 'initiative' of the SAF Leaderhip ?
Surely, this is not the first time that such abuses and excess from the SAF Officer Corp that existed in the forty odd years of the SAF history since 1967 ?
The SAF Officers Corp provide the 'Main Leadership' and 'Motivational Inpetus' for the entire SAF, and each Unit Command has an accepted leeway in its manner of leadership - if not as a matter of Principle, at least as a matter of Managerial Fact.
Why will MINDEF accept and allow a 'Young Stud' - even from a superior lineage - to behave with such petty arrogance and impunity ?
Why will MINDEF not support the SAF Officer Corp instead, and preserve the all important 'esprit de corp' of each unit - even as much as this not being a call ''to sweep matters under the carpet'' ?
'Insubordination' is the only word that descibe the act of this 'Young Stud', who clearly showed his petty contempt towards his superior officer, and that of his fellow officers.
If such behaviour is accepted, and this 'Young Stud' is not charged with insubordination but let off with a 'slap on the wrist' - it will allow further petty allegations to be made, and it will mean that MINDEF can only be forced to react when adverse publicity are made in the widest possible manner.
For the longer term, are we condoning the fact that Super Young Studs' with superior Political lineage - shall have a bigger say in the manner that the SAF Units are to be managed ? -
I read comments and some believe what the said "Li" did the right thing and we should not judge because he is LHL son. Perharps I would like to compare character of another popular Young officer.
Please evaluate on yourself who behave honourably responsible officer.
Prince Harry is very disappointed that he will not be able to go to Iraq with his troop on this deployment, as he had hoped.
"He fully understands and accepts General Dannatt's difficult decision, and remains committed to his Army career.
"Prince Harry's thoughts are with his troop and the rest of the Battle Group in Iraq."
Do you not agreed that Prince Harry response as he is not bigger than the Military. It is always with the Team. I call this Respect the chain of command..... !!!! you would fight side by side with him because he think of his man. -
Motivation is the way to go. LTA X is a regular soldier. I wonder why LTA X didn't give two fcks about militay professionalism. Why did he lose his enthusiasm after signing on?Originally posted by Arapahoe:it will be political, look at the number of discussion thread. Nobody is out to draw blood of him but the reason being we need to voice our concern and right.
I believe military discipline are not creative solution to move SAF ahead. Its mean to be an organization tool in the battlefield. -
if he is a child, he should not lead man into battlefield. We do not send child to fight a man's war.Originally posted by sgdiehard:so what is the appropriate punishment for being childish?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
I beg to differ on this one, Atobe.
The action by PM's Lee son simply shows the arrogance that permeate down the Family Tree into the little boy's head.
His action simply reveals his own petty minded value system without the broader vision of the good to his Unit and that of the SAF.
Where is the sense of 'Esprit de Corp' ?
Comradeship ? Brothers-in-Arm ?
All for ONE, and ONE for ALL ?
Is the SAF 'Esprit de Corp' now torn to shreds with the ability of a [b]'Super-White Stud' getting the better of the Superior Commanders, and pulling a thicker rope over the peers in the Rank and File ?
The 2Lt is no more then a 'Young Upstart KID' - with total lack of respect nor tolerance towards anyone lesser than his own superior lineage.
Such a cynical attitude towards anyone else's authority smack of sheer arrogance - as can be seen in his Grandpa's intolerance towards anyone who dare obstruct his value judgement.
In more mature Army that has established traditions and history, such action from a Junior Grade Officer is termed simply as INSUBORDINATION'.
Such behaviour is no better than an arrogant Kim Jong Il giving his Superiors a hard time, when his father sent him to the North Korean Army in preparation for the Future.
When this 'Super-Stud' could not get the Commander to correct the supposed errors, the 'Super-Stud' took matters into his own hands by writing to the Minister of Defense - who afterall is his Father's Minister.
How many 2Lt will dare to stand up to his Superior Commander and tell him to mend his ways - OR Else ?
How many 2Lt will dare to write to the Minister of Defense and make such a grand expose of the seemingly disciplinary errors of his Unit and his Fellow Officers ?
For MINDEF to take the word of the 2Lt and proceed to investigate the complaints, and was able to confirm the accuracy of the complaint, surely will indicate a failure in the regular review of the Unit and the manner in which Efficiency and Performance are judged.
The reprimands and disciplinary actions as a consequence of the investigation to the 'irregular' complaints made, should rightfully bring more questions of concerns then putting a stop to the debate with the findings made.
It brings into question the Leadership Quality in the Officer Corp, when a young-upstart 2Lt can work against Fellow Officers, and bring an institution of Senior Leadership into question.
It brings into question - if the Competition for the Best SAF Unit is nothing more then a 'sham' ?
One will need to ask - how many ''off-springs'' will the Lee Dynasty need to provide the ground level feedback to the Ivory Tower ?
When LKY was PM, from an analogy which he gave, he seem to have depended on his daughter feedback to implement the Speak Mandarin campaign. He had claimed that his daughter had trouble communicating with a dialect speaking elderly patient, while a non-Chinese nurse was of no help in clearing the matter, and another Chinese nurse from a different dialect group could not resolve the desparation that his daughter faced.
LKY declared that since his daughter could not cope with the situation, it was only logical that everyone should learn Mandarin, so as to facilitate cross dialect communication amongst the Chinese.
The consequence of LKY's anecdote of his daughter's difficulties was a raised tempo to teach Mandarin as the natural mother tongue to all Chinese, and dialects were to be eradicated.
At least two generations of Chinese had to endure the forced learning of a seemingly alien mother-tongue, in which some of Singapore's best had to seek foreign tertiary education when Singapore university admission required a good pass from Chinese whose mother-tongue can only be Mandarin.
What will the future hold for the SAF ?
Can only the First Family move the rocks amidst the shifting sands, while ordinary Singaporeans are only allowed to more the granules under the rocks ?
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You are making it sound like Lee junior is the bad guy here. Is he? Essentially what he did was to write a complain letter that addresses an ill-culture within the military of leniency towards regulars and broadcast the letter. Was such a move based on personal interest?
Note that until the penning of the letter, no injustice whatsoever was done upon 2LTA Li. His superior, although irresponsible, did not in any way harm 2LTA Li personally. He could have just kept quiet and went on to MIT, nobody will need to know about this and there won't be any trouble at all. But he choosed to pen the letter, for what? Will he gain anything out of this? Hell No! He did not complain based on a personal grudge, but for the greater good of the organisation and the country.
If we would recall a few years back, the commando units were suffering from certain ill-culture within the military too and there was a large cover up and general acceptance to such cultures. It took a 3rd Sergent armourer to blow the whistle via similar methods, alerting the public and everyone! I personally knew this 3rd Sergent and he was never punished for blowing the whistle and hell I bet everyone here would be very angry if he was ever punished.
This is not a case of the so-called first family abusing their powers as you would like us all to believe. It is the case of a hot blooded 2LTA attempting to change things at a cost of his own and end up being blamed by the very people he hoped to help.
People. asked yourself, if 2LTA Li had been the LTA in the complain letter and a normal "peasant" as we like to call ourself, is the person who broadcast the letter, would your respones be the same? Would we not be complaining the SAF for punishing the whistle blower and "restricting the freedom of speech" and not having and "Official Information Act" and such?
And mind you a "reprimand" in military terms is not as light as some of us might thought. It is not just a scolding, it will be recorded and has an impact on future careers, it is a defined punishment and is above extra duties in the hierarchy of punishments.
People, let's not be bias and see him for who he is and not just who his father and grandfather is, and for goodness sake give him the credit of the whistle blower that he deserves! -
It is not a fact that SAF only responded because of this "Super Stud with superior lineage". During my time, a cadet, one batch before me also wrote directly to mindef to complain about the instructors, investigations were carried out. Not sure of the outcome but the young cadet proceeded on to pass out as an officer. His father has no special lineage of any kind, that I know for sure.Originally posted by Atobe:How could the system be seen to be working - when an upstart 'young stud' could upturn the 'apple cart' ?
If at all, the fact that the Ministry found the complains to have some ground, and proceeded to reprimand and prosecute the offenders, showed that the seriousness of the SAF Units that are out of view from the Upper Echelon of the Command Structure.
How many sons, grand-sons, and daughters or grand daughters, will the First Family need to keep the wheels of its creation creaking and not fall apart ?
Will this Government only make serious investigation when members of the First Family break the chain of Command ?
The fact that the system only responded on the complaint of this 'Super Stud' with a 'superior lineage' revealed that the methods employed to monitor and gauge performance of the SAF is merely occassional and superficial; and do not cut deep to reveal flaws and excesses, abuse and wastage - all of which can be cleverly covered by administrative measures.
Despite the efforts to develop a Third Generation SAF, it had to take a 'Super Stud Snitch' to spill the beans of a First Generation Human Behavior.
Often when I drinks with seniors to talk about army training, and all officers would talk about cadet/officers training. It become clear to me that it is not uncommon for young junior officers, or cadet trainees to make all kinds of complaints against their superiors, their units and the SAF, in many instances, the chain of command was broken. Today many of these officers remain very proud of what they did, exposing the flaws of the system, revealing abuses and bringing the guilty to justice, blah blah.....
is this the guts of the young and brave, or is this the arrogant and the naive? Definitely SAF's growth to what it is today does not come from such complaints.
I agree with the way SAF reacted, which is based on the validity of the complaint. All complaints got investigated, at least in my unit. If the complaint were right, after investigation, the complainant would only be reprimanded for breaking the chain of command. It would be a different story if the complaint were found to be completely groundless.....
SAF remains a place where men come in and out every year, not all of them happy and willing, and there are bound to have people going out of line, but comradeship was also cultivated after few months together. In this present case, the officer who went AWOL must have thought that he were covered by the senior officers with whom he had Esprit de Corp, but obviously there was no Comradeship between him and the young stub. Espirit de Corp should never be used to cover up wrongdoings, and comradeship should be cultivated with all men, not just among the seniors.
Do parents have anymore say in what our young people do today? If they do, even in the army, in work place, in our society, then the young men's behavior either glorify or put their parents to shame. If this is a family of high public profile, they get everything double.
Ultimately, is the complaint valid, is the behavior a fitting conduct of a soldier and an officer? I was glad the young cadet before me was not thrown out of course. -
Many children have matured behavior, many men never grow up. Childish behavior does not go away with age.Originally posted by Arapahoe:if he is a child, he should not lead man into battlefield. We do not send child to fight a man's war. -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Wrong comparison.
I read comments and some believe what the said "Li" did the right thing and we should not judge because he is LHL son. Perharps I would like to compare character of another popular Young officer.
Please evaluate on yourself who behave honourably responsible officer.
[b]Prince Harry is very disappointed that he will not be able to go to Iraq with his troop on this deployment, as he had hoped.
"He fully understands and accepts General Dannatt's difficult decision, and remains committed to his Army career.
"Prince Harry's thoughts are with his troop and the rest of the Battle Group in Iraq."
Do you not agreed that Prince Harry response as he is not bigger than the Military. It is always with the Team. I call this Respect the chain of command..... !!!! you would fight side by side with him because he think of his man.
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Prince Harry was known to the public as the Prince even when he was born. He was, he is and will always be the pride of the British Empire. Nobody knew this Li is the son of that Lee except for those around him, and in the army he definitely does not have a title like Prince Li other than 2LT.
As a Prince of the British Empire, Harry, or Prince Harry's position far outweigh the importance of a British officer. It is known to him, to the British Army and the public. In Singapore, all Li, Chen, and Wang received the same treatment in the Army, in fact, from what I read in this forum, Mindef had made it a point to ensure that this Li would not be seen to be given any special treatment.
Surely nobody asked this Li if he would prefer to be posted to be his buddies, whether it is in Iraq, Taiwan or Thailand.
Was General Dannatt's decision difficult? probably not, but his decision goes to show that it would easy for the British Army not to post officers to positions of their wish, then to have the whole UK endure the publicity and anguish of the Prince of the British Empire taken hostage by the enemy, in the middle east. This would be a greater grief to the army than several of their General died in a plane crash.
Would I want to be fighting next to a Prince? Definitely no, would my unit always need to spare somebody to protect him? and if I cannot expect him to bypass the chain of command to get speciall attention for the care of the men. what value would a prince add to an officer? -
From Wisefool83 ---- "People. asked yourself, if 2LTA Li had been the LTA in the complain letter and a normal "peasant" as we like to call ourself, is the person who broadcast the letter, would your respones be the same? Would we not be complaining the SAF for punishing the whistle blower and "restricting the freedom of speech" and not having and "Official Information Act" and such?"
WISE WORDS indeed. Had this assumed scenario been real, I believe the outpour will be vehemently unreserved. Apart from some acutely aggrieved, albeit articulate, vegeance-seeking souls, many simply do not know how to respond to this case. On one hand we admire the young man for being daring enough to criticise the mighty SAF but on the other he happens to be the PM's son whom we don't want to openly praise. It is a paradox. A more down to earth question would be - if the PM's son dare not say it, who dare say it? And that apparently flawed system of governing in the SAF will then forever remains. At least, hopefully, some top brass wake up their ideas and clean up the mess for the good of all NS men. Or do we need the PM to personally intervene? -
JUST A SHOW LOL.
dont u remember our media is ranked............at.......HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
LOL noob -
haha.. -
Yes its a different background altogether. different situation but at least we are focusing on 2 person who came from background of different startup. The prince did not go beyond his chain of command to draw attention from Media. He could if he wanted to. He still remain in the military service.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Wrong comparison.
Prince Harry was known to the public as the Prince even when he was born. He was, he is and will always be the pride of the British Empire. Nobody knew this Li is the son of that Lee except for those around him, and in the army he definitely does not have a title like Prince Li other than 2LT.
As a Prince of the British Empire, Harry, or Prince Harry's position far outweigh the importance of a British officer. It is known to him, to the British Army and the public. In Singapore, all Li, Chen, and Wang received the same treatment in the Army, in fact, from what I read in this forum, Mindef had made it a point to ensure that this Li would not be seen to be given any special treatment.
Surely nobody asked this Li if he would prefer to be posted to be his buddies, whether it is in Iraq, Taiwan or Thailand.
Was General Dannatt's decision difficult? probably not, but his decision goes to show that it would easy for the British Army not to post officers to positions of their wish, then to have the whole UK endure the publicity and anguish of the Prince of the British Empire taken hostage by the enemy, in the middle east. This would be a greater grief to the army than several of their General died in a plane crash.
Would I want to be fighting next to a Prince? Definitely no, would my unit always need to spare somebody to protect him? and if I cannot expect him to bypass the chain of command to get speciall attention for the care of the men. what value would a prince add to an officer?
I did not mention the "said" character received special treatment. All i simply want to say is Should we really even want to give him that acknowledgement of showing misplaced courage? As u said it is childish act. There are no courage here but foolishness.
Anyway done. nothing more to say. nice talking to you. -
I'd say it is more arrogance than stupidity, common among many young punks today.Originally posted by Arapahoe:As u said it is childish act. There are no courage here but foolishness.
Anyway done. nothing more to say. nice talking to you.
nice talking to you. -
Pls la all this is jus for show only lah...jus to show the public that they are impartial...
10 yrs later you see him he still Brigadier General. -
For those who's served national service, the culture of 'covering each others arse' by the regulars is not unfamiliar.
And yet, quite a number of people have expressed their sentiments that such acts are normal, and we should adopt a mature attitude towards it by just accepting it for what it is.
Sadly, i believe this is the general attitude of the population when it come to local politics as a whole. You sit down at the coffeeshop, bitch about all the injustice that has been brought upon you, about how things should be done, and yet do nothing about it, siting 'maturity' as a reason. and with this 'maturity', the same things happen over and over again.
It is exactly the same attitude within the army camp canteen, while the soldiers with which the majority are non-regulars discusses the differential treatment that regulars and non-regulars have when it comes to reward and punishment. and no matter how injustified one feels, nothing is done, simply because he is more 'mature'. "just suck it in... it'll be over in a bit" or "what can we do?"
It is indeed refreshing, that such a case of whistle blowing has been brought to light. and yet even more so when it is done by someone with connections. firstly, because such cases are rare, siting the above 'mature' attitude of the people as a reason. Secondly, for the majority of 'mature' whiners who do not realise it, the people who have the guts to make a difference, are somewhat already the same people in power.
This issue is particularly ironic and funny because the 2 contenders and what they stand for are hated just as equally. Some simply cannot figure out who they hate more! It is a suggested the viewing of 2LT LI as a common citizen. To champion what he has done, for those of us who otherwise chose to remain silent. On the other hand, there have been people who site the importance and sacredness of our military instituion, and how such a simple thing as the chain of command cannot be broken. That such a situation would not have arisen in the first place, were he not the PM's son.
But most of all, this is just gonna be a mindless, senseless debate, because at the end of the day, we are indifferent. We have no sense of what we really seek and want out of our environment. We don't really care and as long as our lives don't get any worse off than what it is, we go about our daily routine, being 'mature', taking in what life has to offer rather than actively seeking a life that we want.
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"It is often easier to fight for what you believe in, than to live up to it." -
(BBB)
im surprised this is not being covered up.
when guys talk, little xiao-mei-mei shut up, diam diam!
you never serve NS before still make comments???!!! haiz....
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charge?
normally this kinda charge is DB and stripped of their rank if u make SAF lose face.
more like a scolding in actual fact.
the statement was released to save mindef's face. -
indeed, i do agree with the above. It takes lot of courage to complain against one's supervisor. Getting the rank doesn't mean that whatever you do must be right, and in this case, skipping duties? Although "brotherhood" does matters in life of the army, but should such audacity be left off for many a times. as stated, it was not only once, but thrice that the officer went MIT. if there's no one to report against his action, how many times will it continue to happen then?
WISE WORDS indeed. Had this assumed scenario been real, I believe the outpour will be vehemently unreserved. Apart from some acutely aggrieved, albeit articulate, vegeance-seeking souls, many simply do not know how to respond to this case. On one hand we admire the young man for being daring enough to criticise the mighty SAF but on the other he happens to be the PM's son whom we don't want to openly praise. It is a paradox. A more down to earth question would be - if the PM's son dare not say it, who dare say it? And that apparently flawed system of governing in the SAF will then forever remains. At least, hopefully, some top brass wake up their ideas and clean up the mess for the good of all NS men. Or do we need the PM to personally intervene?
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However, speaking on the other side of the matter. I do agree his fault lies with mass sending the email. BUT, as stated, he did email to the correct channel once, but his complains were returned with blanks. Sometimes, it do takes media for a complain to be process more quickly. Definitely, he could have gone straight to his parents to report this "minor" matter and get that supervisor off his rank, but wouldn't that further show him trying to show his power as a PM son?
PM son, is also but a human too. And human do make mistakes. He had already got what he deserved. A reprimand in military terms and had a bad mark against his bright future. Shouldn't we just let him off with space to breath then? Instead of pressing the matter and magnifying it.
for you to decide. -
Whether 2Lt Li made use of his privileged background or not, it is a good thing that he used his letter to kick some ass in SAF. Those who have served in the SAF will see through the "chain of command" bull as a way of conveniently covering up mistakes in SAF.
It's a good thing that 2Lt Li wasn't cowed by the attitudes of his immediate superiors. In fact, I jealous that he had the courage to email to CDF; when I was a lowly cadet in NS, I thought that CDF was the biggest shot in the world. I saw some shit and kept quiet when I shouldn't. -
I am puzzled by those of you who are (in my opinion) so excessively critical of 2LT Li. Do you even know the man before making such assumptions of his character? If you don't, then perhaps it is you who is arrogant for thinking you know better.
Of course one could argue that perhaps he was more ready to lodge a complaint upstairs because of who his parents were, but it still took moral courage to do what he did. It is far better for someone to speak up when things are obviously not right. Yes, his method of complaint could perhaps have been better thought out but the man is still only 20 and probably a little inexperienced. I believe he will learn from this incident and be wiser for it. Like it or not, he was not the bad guy in this incident.
It saddens me that some of you (not just in this thread but in the other related ones as well) would rather sit back and let wrongs go by because you fear repurcussions, and so proudly trumpet it. Our country would be in grave peril if everyone thought the same way. Of course, in any society, there will be leaders, and there will be followers. There will also be lemmings. I think you know which group you belong to.
Yes, I am aware that I am perhaps sounding a little haughty but the attitude some of you have taken is appalling. You are simply knocking the man because of the chip you have on your shoulder due to whatever sins (real or imagined) that the Singapore Government appears to have commited against you. -
Originally posted by polityka:
Cool down, cool down, why so uptight? Sigh, can tell from your message that how people react and respond really affect you! Sigh! Don't be harsh! Cool down, it is no good for your health to get so worked up! Take it easy, look at it positively, there are people who said kind words about the lee hsien loong's son. It is not possible to expect all to say the same. take it easy, don't blame the people.
I am puzzled by those of you who are (in my opinion) so excessively critical of 2LT Li. Do you even know the man before making such assumptions of his character? If you don't, then perhaps it is you who is arrogant for thinking you know better.
Of course one could argue that perhaps he was more ready to lodge a complaint upstairs because of who his parents were, but it still took moral courage to do what he did. It is far better for someone to speak up when things are obviously not right. Yes, his method of complaint could perhaps have been better thought out but the man is still only 20 and probably a little inexperienced. I believe he will learn from this incident and be wiser for it. Like it or not, he was not the bad guy in this incident.
It saddens me that some of you (not just in this thread but in the other related ones as well) would rather sit back and let wrongs go by because you fear repurcussions, [b]and so proudly trumpet it. Our country would be in grave peril if everyone thought the same way. Of course, in any society, there will be leaders, and there will be followers. There will also be lemmings. I think you know which group you belong to.
Yes, I am aware that I am perhaps sounding a little haughty but the attitude some of you have taken is appalling. You are simply knocking the man because of the chip you have on your shoulder due to whatever sins (real or imagined) that the Singapore Government appears to have commited against you.
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