New weapon systems?
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Recently I have spotted a couple of new platforms. One of them is (what I suspect) the replacement for our old workhorse of Armour--AMX13SM1.The other looks like a missile launcher on a M113. I wish to know more about these two new weapon systems. I am aware of the security implications concerning this topic so i strongly urge anyone out there who know anything about this be cautious when you post a reply.As for myself I will describe the vehicles in a vague manner to prevent breaches of security.Another question is how does these 2 weapon systems work in our current doctrine, simply said is what is the role they play in the SAF. Any information and replys is deeply appreciated.Thanks. ps. no flaming please![/b]
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Originally posted by tankee1981:
I am not sure if you had already breached some by saying this...what you see, is not meant for open discussion on net...even discussing in a vague manner.
Recently I have spotted a couple of new platforms. One of them is (what I suspect) the replacement for our old workhorse of Armour--AMX13SM1.The other looks like a missile launcher on a M113. I wish to know more about these two new weapon systems. I am aware of the security implications concerning this topic so i strongly urge anyone out there who know anything about this be cautious when you post a reply.As for myself I will describe the vehicles in a vague manner to prevent breaches of security.Another question is how does these 2 weapon systems work in our current doctrine, simply said is what is the role they play in the SAF. Any information and replys is deeply appreciated.Thanks. ps. no flaming please![/b]
SAF is always looking into new technology, so no surprises there. It is announced we are looking into replacing the SM1, it's only a matter of when. -
During AOH this year I saw a tank which can hold 4 troops, has a large caliber gun and has a board across its front. If I didn't see wrongly I think its an AMX, but not 13. Its not a Bionix either.
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Think is AMX-10P.Originally posted by EXCO:During AOH this year I saw a tank which can hold 4 troops, has a large caliber gun and has a board across its front. If I didn't see wrongly I think its an AMX, but not 13. Its not a Bionix either.
Source : Jane's Tank Recognication Guide -
AMX-10PAC to be exactOriginally posted by wombat:Think is AMX-10P.
Source : Jane's Tank Recognication Guide -
this thread is going nowhere because everyone is grasping at straws!
no public domain info available, no official press release and not allowed to trade inside info.
sian lah! why not sit tight and wait for press release... -
I saw that tank at Army Open House this year, I even spoke to the tank commander and have 3 photos of it. That IS public domain. Its the first time I saw that tank however.Originally posted by CX:this thread is going nowhere because everyone is grasping at straws!
no public domain info available, no official press release and not allowed to trade inside info.
sian lah! why not sit tight and wait for press release... -
If it is the AMX-10PAC we are talking about, then it is really bo big deal as it is public domain news already. However, if we are talking about "a new light tank" ST Engg is developing, then perhaps it is only going to be pure speculation. Janes has reported that ST Engg is building a new light tank most likely for SAF and probably based on a Bionix chassis. However, till now, we haven't had concrete news about the program. Like the Bionix which went through a thorough testing and initial deployment within the army before it was made public, we won't see the light tank in public places until Mindef decides that it should be announced.Originally posted by CX:this thread is going nowhere because everyone is grasping at straws!
no public domain info available, no official press release and not allowed to trade inside info.
sian lah! why not sit tight and wait for press release...
As for the AMX tank some posters have seen here, they are not new and definitely not some top secret thingy.
BTW, I've got one question about the AMX-10PAC tank... why did SAF go for the 90mm gun instead of the 105mm. Does that mean that we have now 3 kinds of tank rounds to support (75mm, 90mm and 105mm)? And how good are the AMX-10PAC sights/fire control system compared to the current SM1? -
The vehicle which I saw is definitely not the AMX-10. The AMX-10 is quite old news already is you follow the defence affairs of Singapore closely. The chasis of the vehicle I saw is about the size of the BX . However the turret is much bigger. The machine is wrapped with a plastic sheet so I can't be very sure... But it will be very exciting to know how well the replacement of the SM1 will perform as compared to its predessor.
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Well i didnt go to the saf open house.
There is something i m sure if the particular tank u are referring is a new vehicle.Its highly unlikely that foreign defense sources have no information on it.Since it was displayed to the public i doubt its a new kid on the block.
If u have a scanner maybe u should scan it and post it in this public forum. -
Well, like I said, I have never seen that tank before. Yes, its an AMX-10 (confirmed by my friend's photo, which had the designation and description plate in front of the tank.). What is its role in the SAF? I don't recall seeing it at NDP 2000 mobile column. Will post the photo once the scanner is available to me.Originally posted by Orcishwarrior:Well i didnt go to the saf open house.
There is something i m sure if the particular tank u are referring is a new vehicle.Its highly unlikely that foreign defense sources have no information on it.Since it was displayed to the public i doubt its a new kid on the block.
If u have a scanner maybe u should scan it and post it in this public forum. -
Double post
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Could it be another variant of the Bionix? I haven't heard of any thing for a new tank.Originally posted by tankee1981:The vehicle which I saw is definitely not the AMX-10. The AMX-10 is quite old news already is you follow the defence affairs of Singapore closely. The chasis of the vehicle I saw is about the size of the BX . However the turret is much bigger. The machine is wrapped with a plastic sheet so I can't be very sure... But it will be very exciting to know how well the replacement of the SM1 will perform as compared to its predessor. -
Don't be so excited over the amx-10 APC. They are old liao and their armor's as weak as the M113.Originally posted by Orcishwarrior:Well i didnt go to the saf open house.
There is something i m sure if the particular tank u are referring is a new vehicle.Its highly unlikely that foreign defense sources have no information on it.Since it was displayed to the public i doubt its a new kid on the block.
If u have a scanner maybe u should scan it and post it in this public forum.
But They have special abilities that the m113 and BX cannot preform well in. Shhh........
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Originally posted by Silenthunter:
Aiyah, no need so secretive lah.We all know (especially the Indonesian Marine) that these vehicles can swim very well.... Not a secret leh.
[b]
Don't be so excited over the amx-10 APC. They are old liao and their armor's as weak as the M113.
But They have special abilities that the m113 and BX cannot preform well in. Shhh........
Anyway, I am interested to know how many people reckon the CV90-120 is a suitable vehicle in SAF context. I wonder if Mindef has ever considered that - a 25 tons that shoots 120mm round - must be a real attractive option. Furthermore, the 25 tons is within the engineer support capabilities after they have received the Class 30 Leguan bridges on the Bionix.
I also think that a foreign 105mm turret marry to the Bionix chassis is SAF best light tank solution. What do you guys think? -
In my opinion a 105mm gun is a suitable gun as a replacement for the 75mm. The mating of a foreign turret to BX chasis is applicable as well as practical. The BX is designed to be able to accommodate various types of turrets such as 40/50,25mm Bushmaster and other 'turrets' like bridging equipment as in the BLB. Can anyone suggest what 105mm turret is suitable for the BX? Thanks
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AMX-10PAC90 to be more exactOriginally posted by Joe Black:AMX-10PAC to be exact -
1990, MINDEF awarded Giat a contract for 22 AMX-10 PAC 90 Fire Support Vehicle and 22 AMX-10P 25 ICVs with 25mm Dragar turret. All variants ordered are based on the AMX-10P Marines and are fully amphibious, being specially modified for naval operations. The vehicles are being propelled in water by water-jets that are being emitted at the rear of the hull via four bilge pumps which are switched on prior to entry into water (The 305 mm water-jets impart a maximum water speed of 10 km/h). These vehicles are given reinforced waterproofing and a special protection against salt corrosion. They could be readily identified by their strong transparent wave breaker mounted on the glacis plate. Delivery of these vehicles were completed by 1994.
AMX-10P 25 ICV (Marines)
The AMX-10P 25 ICV was originally developed by Giat Industries as a private venture and Singapore is the only country which ordered this vehicle in the special amphibious version. The prototype was shown for the first time in June 1983. It is basically a standard AMX-10P Marines with a one-man Dragar turret. The commander sits to the left of the turret with a front-opening piece hatch cover, five day periscopes and night periscope. Mounted at the centre of the hull is the Giat Industries Dragar one-man turret armed with a 25 mm Model 811 Giat Industries dual-purpose cannon which fires both HE and AP rounds. The vehicle can carry 175 rounds of HE and 45 rounds of AP ammunition for use. A 7.62 mm machine gun is mounted co-axially, to the right of the cannon and 200 rounds of ammunition is available for ready use. A bank of two electrically operated forward firing smoke dischargers is mounted on either side of the turret. The vehicle weights 14,300 kg loaded and 11,700 kg empty. The complement comprise of a vehicle commander, a gunner, a driver and up to eight fully equipped troops.
AMX-10 PAC 90 (Marines)
The AMX-10 PAC 90 is fitted with the Giat Industries TS 90 turret mounting a 90mm gun with an elevation of +15°and a depression of -8°.The gun can fire canister, high explosive, high explosive long range, HEAT, smoke and APFSDS rounds. The last has a muzzle velocity of 1350 m/s and will penetrate 120 mm of armour at an incidence of 60°. 12 HEAT and 8 HE rounds are carried in the turret, 16 in the turret bustle to the rear of the commander and 4 more behind the commander’s seat. A further 10 rounds are carried in the hull. A 7.62 mm machine gun is mounted coaxially to the left of the main gun with 2000 rounds of ammunition readily available in the turret, an additional 1200 rounds are carried in the hull. There are also two smoke dischargers mounted towards the rear of the turret. Four troopers could be accommodated if necessarily. The intended role of the AMX-10 PAC 90 is that of fire support and anti-tank at ranges between 1000m and 2500m. -
The role of AMX 10 is primary for amphibious ops for XX Div. I know where they are store but dun think it too convenient for me to reveal the location.Originally posted by EXCO:Well, like I said, I have never seen that tank before. Yes, its an AMX-10 (confirmed by my friend's photo, which had the designation and description plate in front of the tank.). What is its role in the SAF? I don't recall seeing it at NDP 2000 mobile column. Will post the photo once the scanner is available to me. -
AOH 2002 was not bad. got to ride in the bionix. pretty cramped tho. but i guess all tanks are like that.
Just a question about our Apache Longbows... in the US armed forces they're assigned to the army... but with the SAF our Apaches seem to be assigned to the RSAF. Does it make a difference? integration wise is it still the same? it seems that anything that flies belongs to the RSAF... anyway. can't wait till they finally arrive here.
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it doesn't make a difference whether our apaches is in the air force or in the army. Take other air forces as examples( eg, netherland, uae, israel,......)
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Alemak onli 22 are ordered, they can do wat cock?Originally posted by Seant7:The role of AMX 10 is primary for amphibious ops for XX Div. I know where they are store but dun think it too convenient for me to reveal the location. -
that is not a bad idea,at least we are different from most nation who follows US trend of making the attack helo part of the army body.
Anyway dont worry u will get to see it sooner than expected since mindef requested US for early delivery back to singapore and the response has been quite positive.
Guys ! maybe we should cease posting about singapore presnt tanks ahya !!
see also sianz !!! boring 
when i see the AMX-13 i really want to spit on it hehehehehe that is really disrespectful to the army 
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Never neglect our oldies just bcoz there are equipment out there in the SAF. Want to spit on an AMX-13? if you can withstand it's blast then you're fit to spit on itOriginally posted by Orcishwarrior:that is not a bad idea,at least we are different from most nation who follows US trend of making the attack helo part of the army body.
Anyway dont worry u will get to see it sooner than expected since mindef requested US for early delivery back to singapore and the response has been quite positive.
Guys ! maybe we should cease posting about singapore presnt tanks ahya !! see also sianz !!! boring when i see the AMX-13 i really want to spit on it hehehehehe that is really disrespectful to the army 
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Armor troopers have alot of pride in their vehicle you know (okay, maybe not all ) ... although it can suck alot, but we maintain it, service it, load ammo on it, shoot with it and break/fix it's tracks.......... no one can do it better than us...
ONCE ARMOR ALWAYS ARMOR!! -
In my opinion, a suitable turret could be any of these:Originally posted by tankee1981:In my opinion a 105mm gun is a suitable gun as a replacement for the 75mm. The mating of a foreign turret to BX chasis is applicable as well as practical. The BX is designed to be able to accommodate various types of turrets such as 40/50,25mm Bushmaster and other 'turrets' like bridging equipment as in the BLB. Can anyone suggest what 105mm turret is suitable for the BX? Thanks
1. Textron Stringray II
2. Textron 105mm Turret
3. United Defense LP, M8 AGS
4. French Giat TML 105mm (as used by the AMX-10RC)
5. General Dynamic LS Turret as used by the Spanish ASCOD APC (like the Bionix)
This has a low profile turret where only the gun is exposed. The gunner and the commander sit within the chassis like the M113 Ultra 25mm turret.
6. Italian LRF 105mm turret (used by ASCOD)
7. ASCOD 105mm turret
8. Vicker Mk.3M Turret
These are but just a few suggestions...