ST and Govt out of touch with American Politics
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And this load of drivel is supposed to make any more sense than the average cab driver or miner polled in the surveys by Gallup?Originally posted by Mat Toro:Al Gore unlikely to run cos its already too late to raise funds.
Hillary likely to win in 08. It doesn't matter that she achieved nothing as a senator and carries a lot of old baggage.
Are you sure you aren't a consultant hired to decorate the walls for Birthday parties?
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Mind, this is the same bloke who tells you an increase in population of women and hispanics would effectively mean the same increase in yield of votes for the Democrats.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:And the US electorate is made up of conservatives overwhelmingly?
And how is it that you can dare to use a broad stroke to paint all the conservatives as thinking alike? What's impossible? -
Your 2 reasons are self-contradictory (assuming you know what you're talking about, which obviously doesn't look that way) on many fronts.Originally posted by Arapahoe:Obama raise a lot of $$ he has that financial capacity to go thru the end. He has the demeanor in his speech. If you listen carefully when he speaks he always fall back into the history of US civil liberty within context. That helps to get support from both parties member. Obama may also be the right profile to be the next chief for 2 reasons. First he doesn't have the excess baggage that Hiliary is carrying from Bill that I think is important. The future foreign policy that needs attention will be coming out from Africa and the middle east. Than again the show is still early into
Firstly, I'm not sure if that many Americans think Hillary's shouldering Bill's "liabilities" - if anything, and considering Gore's failed campaign in 2000, I'd think more would regard it as an asset. Although, should she get elected, the inevitably higher expectations (founded on her husband's achievements) placed on her shoulders would be opened to debate. That said, I think it's important for those voting for her to realise she's not going to be like her husband and it certainly wouldn't make sense for her to be judged on benchmarks set by her husband.
Secondly, the Clinton administration did more for Africa and the Middle East than any other administrations since the second world war. How you perceive Hillary to be disadvantaged through her association with the most active President in the aforementioned regions is beyond me. For you to make such shallow sweeping statements clearly indicate how little you know about Clinton's initiatives and efforts in Tanzania or his efforts in concluding a deal in the Middle East when Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat held the helms of Israel and Palestine respectively. -
I know what I am talking about sir.Originally posted by walesa:And this load of drivel is supposed to make any more sense than the average cab driver or miner polled in the surveys by Gallup?
Are you sure you aren't a consultant hired to decorate the walls for Birthday parties?
We did a survey on the streets and many people said they like Hillary and will vote for her but none of those people can tell us what she had done.
I know its hard for you to accept it thats just the way it is in America or many places all over the world. -
Oh yes, I'm sure if you had conducted your polls amongst the 100, 000 folks who support Ralph Nader in Florida, you'd be telling us the next American President would be an Independent too, eh?Originally posted by Mat Toro:I know what I am talking about sir.
We did a survey on the streets and many people say they like Hillary and will vote for her but none of those people can tell us what she had done.
Its not logical but thats the way it is. Our job is just to recognise reality. -
its a random street poll.
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You haven't done much to convince us that you know what you are talking about.Originally posted by Mat Toro:I know what I am talking about sir.
We did a survey on the streets and many people said they like Hillary and will vote for her but none of those people can tell us what she had done.
I know its hard for you to accept it thats just the way it is in America or many places all over the world.
All you have done is make us wonder whether you are even capable of writing a research paper with the shabby drivel you have been giving us, not least the endless list of right winger rhetoric. -
Originally posted by Mat Toro:Al Gore unlikely to run cos its already too late to raise funds.
Hillary likely to win in 08. It doesn't matter that she achieved nothing as a senator and carries a lot of old baggage.
I see. Al Gore is unlikely to run because it's already too late to raise funds and Hillary is likely to win it in 08 because your "random street poll" tells you so.Originally posted by Mat Toro:its a random street poll.
Why don't you try conducting a "random street poll" amongst the 100,000 Nader supporters in the 04 elections? It might just be Nader nicking it in '08. -
Can all your liberal rant convince us iof anything?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:You haven't done much to convince us that you know what you are talking about.
All you have done is make us wonder whether you are even capable of writing a research paper with the shabby drivel you have been giving us, not least the endless list of right winger rhetoric.
I'm not here top convince you, take it or leave it ladies.
You can live in ignorance all you want, not a problem. -
There you go, you hardly respect your debating opponents, like all the PAP idiots that come budging in.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Can all your liberal rant convince us iof anything?
I'm not here top convince you, take it or leave it ladies.
You can live in ignorance all you want, not a problem.
If this is a new "counter-insurgency" attempt by the PAP, this is getting a wee-bit hilarious.
And my liberal rants? Oh please, I have yet to even start to rant about idiotic liberals. -
I don't see you respecting others as well. Who are you lecturing?
You seem to think you are so smart. Whats the matter with you? -
Maybe Mat Toro is just a campaign volunteer. Cut him some slack lah.
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nope, not related to pap.
I just state things for what they are.
many govt policies are good but not fully understood. The govt isn't out to screw the people but to build the country. what advantage do they have by screwing the people?
I feel that those anti govt people are so biased in their minds that they will never be open to reason. They choose to see only the bad and not the full picture and they try to show others how great they are by claiming to pity the poor.
They have this arrogance about them that they are better than others and they care more than others.
Thats all BS cos they never really cared about the poor at all. The people who cared for the poor is the govt if you think carefully. -
Now that's a load of unsubstantiated hooey.Originally posted by Mat Toro:nope, not related to pap.
I just state things for what they are.
many govt policies are good but not fully understood. The govt isn't out to screw the people but to build the country. what advantage do they have by screwing the people?
I feel that those anti govt people are so biased in their minds that they will never be open to reason. They choose to see only the bad and not the full picture and they try to show others how great they are by claiming to pity the poor.
They have this arrogance about them that they are better than others and they care more than others.
Thats all BS cos they never really cared about the poor at all. The people who cared for the poor is the govt if you think carefully.
If their policies are good, you would have seen real effects and net benefit to this country.
I would only say that some of these policies only served a particular segment of our demographic structure, and nothing more. -
we do see net benefits to the country.
the only reason why you fail to see it is because your mind is closed. -
I said we do, but it's not entirely something that everyone is experiencing. It's segmented at the moment, and very much so in the foreseeable future.Originally posted by Mat Toro:we do see net benefits to the country.
the only reason why you fail to see it is because your mind is closed.
Ever heard of policy attrition? The cracks need to be dealt with, and not pushed away. -
Whenever there is growth, there are growing pains.
Moving from an agrarian economy to a manufacturing to a service economy involves laying of workers and shifting resources to progress forward.
Similarly, we need to forego low paying jobs on to higher paying ones. In the process of evolution and metamorphosis, there must be discomforts and pains. You do not block these necessary changes such as GSTs and privatisations or even fare increases just because there is pain. We need to learn to understand the big picture my fren. -
Me smart? Please, I have met better. There are people who are so good in Topology and stuff they will dance math around you in circles.Originally posted by Mat Toro:I don't see you respecting others as well. Who are you lecturing?
You seem to think you are so smart. Whats the matter with you?
At least I trot out some articles by respected people like Stephen Cohen, who's a well known Sovietologist. You haven't, and you expect people to believe you at face value.
You have not done anything to prove what you have said, and all you have done is given bull shit. One more damn time and for the damn last time: POST PROOF OR RETRACT.Whenever there is growth, there are growing pains.
And who here thinks this person is just another OM? Claiming to be something else and based abroad? The only difference is that this person here is far less aggressive than OM.
Moving from an agrarian economy to a manufacturing to a service economy involves laying of workers and shifting resources to progress forward.
Similarly, we need to forego low paying jobs on to higher paying ones. In the process of evolution and metamorphosis, there must be discomforts and pains. You do not block these necessary changes such as GSTs and privatisations or even fare increases just because there is pain. We need to learn to understand the big picture my fren.
Even the most distinguished economist in the world knows that however painful things are, there must be provision to take care of people who fall out of the cracks. Governments have risen and fallen because they don't take care of their people well enough and ignore statistical trends. The end result has often be a bloody rebellion. -
Me smart? Please, I have met better. There are people who are so good in Topology and stuff they will dance math around you in circles.
you are right on that one. there are seriously a lot of smarter people in singapore than you and I and they choose to stay and make Singapore thrive.
Cutting and pasting a link or article somewhere from somebody is great?
At least I trot out some articles by respected people like Stephen Cohen, who's a well known Sovietologist. You haven't, and you expect people to believe you at face value.
You must be a loser.
What about yourself? What can you make out in your posts? Lets see it.
I don't need to prove anything or am i interested to. I just tell it as it is.
You have not done anything to prove what you have said, and all you have done is given bull !&&%. One more damn time and for the damn last time: POST PROOF OR RETRACT.
Who and what is OM? You can't handle the fact that there are many people with differing views from you? What a loser!
And who here thinks this person is just another OM? Claiming to be something else and based abroad? The only difference is that this person here is far less aggressive than OM.
all economists know that there are growing pains in changes. ypu don't even need an economist to know that.
Even the most distinguished economist in the world knows that however painful things are, there must be provision to take care of people who fall out of the cracks. Governments have risen and fallen because they don't take care of their people well enough and ignore statistical trends. The end result has often be a bloody rebellion.
Rebellion? You are one funny fella mister. Are you halucinating or what? [/quote] -
I have more or less a Bachelors degree in Physics. What do you have? A degree in stupidity?Originally posted by Mat Toro:you are right on that one. there are seriously a lot of smarter people in singapore than you and I and they choose to stay and make Singapore thrive.Cutting and pasting a link or article somewhere from somebody is great?
And what about yourself? You haven't posted any evidence whatsoever or given us any cause to believe what you say.
You must be a loser.
What about yourself? What can you make out in your posts? Lets see it.
On other forums, where there is a less tolerance policy of fools such as yourself, you would have been banned immediately for failing to substantiate your remarks.I don't need to prove anything or am i interested to. I just tell it as it is.
This sounds oddly familiar, and our ministers do this all the time. And you accuse me of arrogance when you yourself display this form of arrogance. How dare you come here demanding we accept what you say with no proof whatsoever. What do you think you are? God?Who and what is OM? You can't handle the fact that there are many people with differing views from you? What a loser!
Better a loser than to listen to your bloody nonsense. This OM here follows the same modus operandi in debate as you do, and is quite well despised here.all economists know that there are growing pains in changes. ypu don't even need an economist to know that.
Lemme see now, the French Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution... Do these ring a bell? I hope they do.
Rebellion? You are one funny fella mister. Are you halucinating or what? -
Er. a Bachelor's degree and you wanna boast?
I have more or less a Bachelors degree in Physics. What do you have? A degree in stupidity?
I think you behind times sir.
No sir, I never boast about cut ans pastes like you did.
quote:Cutting and pasting a link or article somewhere from somebody is great?
You must be a loser.
What about yourself? What can you make out in your posts? Lets see it.
my arguments are much better than yours thats for sure.
And what about yourself? You haven't posted any evidence whatsoever or given us any cause to believe what you say.
You see, when you cant compete in the arena of ideas, you want to get someone banned.
On other forums, where there is a less tolerance policy of fools such as yourself, you would have been banned immediately for failing to substantiate your remarks.
And you also want to complain about govt controlling media and silencing differing views. You make us laugh my fren.
er.. you can't handle the truth my fren?
This sounds oddly familiar, and our ministers do this all the time. And you accuse me of arrogance when you yourself display this form of arrogance. How dare you come here demanding we accept what you say with no proof whatsoever. What do you think you are? God?
So you do admit you are a loser. Thats the smartest thing you ever said so far FN.
Better a loser than to listen to your bloody nonsense. This OM here follows the same modus operandi in debate as you do, and is quite well despised here.
Go ahead, please go start a rebellion.
Lemme see now, the French Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution... Do these ring a bell? I hope they do.
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And what do you have? Nothing? Moreover, this is more evidence for a lack of understanding of how Sciences degrees work in the US. I plan to go on to PhD and it is my ticket away from Singapore. At least my mathematics is better than your drivel.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Er. a Bachelor's degree and you wanna boast?
I think you behind times sir.No sir, I never boast about cut ans pastes like you did.
No sir, at least I bring out evidence. You post here as if it is Gospel Truth.my arguments are much better than yours thats for sure.
Your arguments have been rebuted again and again on this thread, and all you have done is claim this is truth and expect us to believe it.You see, when you can compete in the arena of ideas, you want to get someone banned.
More strawman attacks. I demanded you substantiate your views and you have refused to. This is not a competition of ideas. What you simply have done is demanded we listen to your bloody Gospel Truth and accept them. How is this even a competition you tell me.
And you also want to complain about govt controlling media and silencing differing views. You make us laugh my fren.er.. you can't handle the truth my fren?
Your truth? What truth? You call that truth? Where is the proof I demanded? You expect me to regard this as truth? Pathetic liar.So you do admit you are a loser. Thats the smartest thing you ever said so far FN.
The smartest thing? Perhaps. At least smarter than all the crap you have doled out.Go ahead, please go start a rebellion.
I shall take this as an admission that I am correct. -
Now now boys, no personal attacks or poison dipped words.
The reason why politics quickly go from a civilised talk and a debate and end up into gangsta politics (esp seen in our Parliament House) is because people tend to try to ridicule the other party to gain points for themselves. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, our country may be a high tech dictatorship, but we here in SG Forums are still in our own community of democracy and freedom.
I feel that US politics is a very high level game, possibly the most complicated issue in the entire world. This is because it is in the entire world's interests that their favoured party wins. I believe that many powerful international figures and entities are influencing US politics, not just the local citizens or powers. It isnt fair to say that one candidate or party isnt competent or familiar with ground issues, because everyone of them are very qualified, even Bush, although many ppl will disagree. And I daresay all of them have someone supporting them behind. (There are always two powers, one on the throne and one hiding behind the throne aka LKY & LHL/Naden)
The main issue here is not what the person intends to do but rather what the person can or cannot do.
Obama, Kerry and Hilary all claim to want to end the war and withdraw US troops in their campaigning, but what I notice is...
Being a Presidential candidate is not being a President.
Things will change and their perceptions and values will all change if any of them step up to be the most powerful person on earth.
The US seems to be after global superiority. The balance of power shifted to the West for the first time in Human history after the Cold War. For millenia, the superpowers of the world were all in Europe or Asia. I think the US is more concerned with falling behind rising powers in the world than with their comparatively small domestic issues like what their citizens are occupied with... EG. abortion rights, same gender marriage, minority rights, union law, healthcare provision, etc etc. All these things are good and important, but pale in comparison to the threats that the only global superpower faces from rising countries like our dragon in the east. Notice that the US have always always been 10x more occupied with international issues than its home affairs. That's my opinion anyway, if u wanna flame me for my stupidity or weak command of english, thats alright, anything to make ur day. 
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Can u quote some examples of the good things the govt has done?Originally posted by Mat Toro:nope, not related to pap.
I just state things for what they are.
many govt policies are good but not fully understood. The govt isn't out to screw the people but to build the country. what advantage do they have by screwing the people?
I feel that those anti govt people are so biased in their minds that they will never be open to reason. They choose to see only the bad and not the full picture and they try to show others how great they are by claiming to pity the poor.
They have this arrogance about them that they are better than others and they care more than others.
Thats all BS cos they never really cared about the poor at all. The people who cared for the poor is the govt if you think carefully. -
U in here or US when u conduct the poll?Originally posted by Mat Toro:I know what I am talking about sir.
We did a survey on the streets and many people said they like Hillary and will vote for her but none of those people can tell us what she had done.
I know its hard for you to accept it thats just the way it is in America or many places all over the world.