13% of students who borrowed from parents' CPF accounts have
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Put it simply...its a matter between us and our parents...what next, Govt. is gonna punish the parents if they do not train us to vote for PAP come election time? Goodness....
Also boka keeps saying that he's working and relying on returns of investments by his parents. Please be realistic, the returns on investments is done by who? You or your parents? Kudos to you if its by you, but if its your parents, please how much money did they invest to let you have the said returns? Anyway...if you ask me...these MPs/Ministers say such silly things in Parliament probably because its their turn to speak, and yet they have nothing to speak about, so find something like this a sensitive topic to stir the pot for a few days. If they can do this, why not one of them propose a ministerial level pay cut and use the excess money saved to provide a wider resource for LOCAL students to progress in their academic endeavors? -
A simple matter as u said is between u and your parents but what happens if YOUR CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO RETURN DURING YOUR RETIREMENT AGE?Originally posted by SpecOps87:Put it simply...its a matter between us and our parents...what next, Govt. is gonna punish the parents if they do not train us to vote for PAP come election time? Goodness....
Also boka keeps saying that he's working and relying on returns of investments by his parents. Please be realistic, the returns on investments is done by who? You or your parents? Kudos to you if its by you, but if its your parents, please how much money did they invest to let you have the said returns? Anyway...if you ask me...these MPs/Ministers say such silly things in Parliament probably because its their turn to speak, and yet they have nothing to speak about, so find something like this a sensitive topic to stir the pot for a few days. If they can do this, why not one of them propose a ministerial level pay cut and use the excess money saved to provide a wider resource for LOCAL students to progress in their academic endeavors?
A my investment comes from my own capital by working and investing in unit trusts.
My parents,apart from the monthly allowances do not give me anything more.
Remember singapore does not have welfare and the only way to ensure the ageing population have enough for their golden age is through their CPF funds.
Because when we have parents paying everything for the son's education and having an empty basket by the time they retire,we are going to see more homeless person.
And what follows next is people are going to pin point figners at the government for not helping these elderly people.
If u guys are complaining why u guys aren't able to use your cpf for the local uni fees then it shows what whinny bunches u are.
Local uni fees are max IF i'm not wrong is 30k?
30k can be easily acumulated after saving in NS and maybe working for 1 or 2 years after that.
I don't see a big issue of having to look for alternative funds like CPF or loans.
Secondly,if u guys are talking about overseas uni that is going to easily cost u 100K.
THEN won't this defiently be a concern for the government?
100k off your cpf is a big portion!
And how long do your son have to return sum consdiering u the span of time to your retirement age is say few years?
If that span is 10 years it means they have to return 10k exlcuing intrest a year.
5 years=20k without intrest.
i'm not against withdrawing of cpf funds seriously but thats unless u have additional of another hundred grands to back u up. -
That is a good one.Originally posted by caleb_chiang:Instead of stopping, they should implement like compulsory installment return to their parent's CPF account after the students start working.
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isnt it the moral obligation of children to take care of their own parents.Originally posted by boka:A simple matter as u said is between u and your parents but what happens if YOUR CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO RETURN DURING YOUR RETIREMENT AGE?
A my investment comes from my own capital by working and investing in unit trusts.
My parents,apart from the monthly allowances do not give me anything more.
Remember singapore does not have welfare and the only way to ensure the ageing population have enough for their golden age is through their CPF funds.
Because when we have parents paying everything for the son's education and having an empty basket by the time they retire,we are going to see more homeless person.
And what follows next is people are going to pin point figners at the government for not helping these elderly people.
If u guys are complaining why u guys aren't able to use your cpf for the local uni fees then it shows what whinny bunches u are.
Local uni fees are max IF i'm not wrong is 30k?
30k can be easily acumulated after saving in NS and maybe working for 1 or 2 years after that.
I don't see a big issue of having to look for alternative funds like CPF or loans.
Secondly,if u guys are talking about overseas uni that is going to easily cost u 100K.
THEN won't this defiently be a concern for the government?
100k off your cpf is a big portion!
And how long do your son have to return sum consdiering u the span of time to your retirement age is say few years?
If that span is 10 years it means they have to return 10k exlcuing intrest a year.
5 years=20k without intrest.
i'm not against withdrawing of cpf funds seriously but thats unless u have additional of another hundred grands to back u up. -
It is but how many would actually give a shyt now?Originally posted by dragg:
isnt it the moral obligation of children to take care of their own parents.
seriously. -
...KNN...everything inc here n there...flats prices rising,gst rises!!!,Bills rises!!!!...but pay didnt rise!!!!!Interest didnt rise!!!!!....some more wanna prolong the age till 65.......dun noe whether will live till get to use the CPF monies anot....
Sengapoh is a veri exp place to live in.......No monies No talk...Try leaving the hse with oni $2...tink cant even afford transport fees. -
It is getting to be more worrying the manner in which our CPF is being managed, considering the non-transparency of the system that has been implemented by the Government aka the Ruling Party.
If the concern is with the ability of the Aged to be independent with sufficient savings from CPF - the Government has failed to make CPF work with its many about turn changes in its policies as it meanders through the last thirty years.
If each Singaporean worker has a CPF Account that receives $200 from its own wage deduction, and another $200 from its Employer, this will result in a monthly INDIVIDUAL contribution of $400, or $4,800 per annum.
If there are 1,000,000 in the Singapore Workforce, this annual sum received by CPF will be $4,800.000,000 per annum.
Across the working life of the next 30 years, the CPF Board will have received a shocking total sum of $144,000,000,000.
This total at the end of the 30th year has not even considered the annual compounded interest that is payable by CPF on the accounts held.
This total has not considered any wage increases as some in the workforce move up the wage scale.
This total sum is only considering the initial 1,000,000 workers from the 1950s period, and has not considered the additional contributions from the new annual entries into the workforce.
With a CPF system that has to support a larger population of those born in the 1950s, it will require an ANNUAL INCREASE to the numbers entering the workforce to contribute more than the amounts that the 1950s generation will have to withdraw.
It will require a larger annual CPF contributing population to form the large base of a Pyramid, and the retiree population withdrawing from the CPF forming the space at the smaller apex of the pyramid.
Unfortunately, the effective outcome of the Population Control Program during the 1960s campaign of 'STOP At Two' has resulted in an annual shrinking of the birthrates and a slow depletion of the population that do not reproduce itself.
This must result in an inverted pyramid when the larger numbers from the 1950s baby boomers are now retiring, and it is being supported by a smaller and shrinking workforce that ccontribute insufficiently into the CPF to support the larger amount being withdrawn by the 1950s retirees.
All that we have seen is denial from the Government that there are no funds to make the payouts, but a slew of policy changes seems to hint otherwise - when policy changes indicate a continued delay to the withdrawing age from the inital 55 years to the present 65 years; and we have also seen the many programs that deplete our main CPF acounts by deduction for Medicare, or transfers to MediSave.
These deductions to Medicare and MediSave will only provide a minimal coverage to each Singaporean, and will hardly cover the total sum of any major medical treatment that has reach astronomical sums even at Government managed hospitals.
There seems to be a reluctace and resistance to snowball all the individual deductions and transfers into a Super National Insurance Scheme that will provide a Super Coverage Net for ALL Singaporeans, that will be of sufficient amount to protect Singaporeans healthcare without need for any CASH outlays.
Such a scheme works as the amounts not utilised by healthier Singaporeans can be used by those less healthy and in greater need for help.
If charity and self-help is expected from Singaporeans, it is surprising that the Government being in the seat of main control and major influence will not take the Leadership Role to make this obvious happen, but will indulge in tinkering the CPF system to achieve some minor goals with smaller effective results.
The CPF system belong to Singaporeans, and if it must be used to help one's offspring to gain a better education, it is also an investment by the parents on their children who will be in a better position to look after the parents in old age.
If there are fears that conflict will arise in the abandoment of the parents, there are legislations already in place to ensure that this do not happen; unless the Government is claiming that the policy is a failure.
The CPF has been manipulated to its death, and it looks like Singaporeans will have to bear with another round of arrogance from the Government in not consulting us for decisions already made. -
Jolly jim-jam, I suppose we're going to stay really competitive with the rest of the developed world with a male workforce that enters the market at age 28, assuming that they have to serve NS, and work before going to University.
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What you said does not work in Singapore. In Singapore guys will lose 2 years due to their national service. This does not bode well for them. The American educational system is more laid back, allowing them more time to catch up on other things. If you want to blame, blame it on our educational system and the kiasu-ness of all Singaporeans. I agree with great planning one can handle multiple jobs, but will this allow them to handle a full-time education?Originally posted by boka:And if u do not have enough for your old age?
sit back and expect to be fed?
what u have just said is blunder stupidity.
An all time classical dumbness.
I said if one does not even have enough finace to see himself through poly then he should serve NS first,save the $ which he earns during his time of service and then pay for his school fees.
you are expecting everything to be nicely laid out for in your road ahead.
If my cousin can flip burgers thro uni to pay for her school fees in uk which is A ASTRONOMICAL AMOUNT THEN I DONT SEE HOW ONE CANNOT SAVE THEIR POLY FEES THROUGH NS.
And one of the forumlites here still commented on the fun a person would be missing out if he works to save up for school fees.
AS USUAL CRAP!!
It's the stupid sgnaporean mentality of "i must have a good education,smooth journey and at the same time have my share of entertainment and all this must not be comprimise"
FUK U!
I cant believe such thinking still exist in someone older than me.
U guys make it so rosy a picture.
Do not have enough money,dig the CPF and Still insufficent?DIG THE BANK LOANS.
PLS TRASH SUCH MENTALITY AS IT MAKES U LOOK LIKE A WORTHLESS PERSON WHO SPEND FUTURE MONEY.
I do not support the PAP but this one policy i see the need for them to enforce because if every parents are going to use their retirement piggy for education that can easily amount to 100k,then what is going to happen when they fall ill?or how can they support themselve through retirement.
U might say they can turn towards their children.
What joke,what more do the local youngsters care aside fun,fame,money and girl?
Again 13% have not yet returned the amout borrowed from the CPF.
what if these people,their parents are retired and their sons are still in the midst of studying or serving NS.
What happens then?
no doubt i have alot of doubt reagrding pap policies but we as humans should judge issues based on what it is and not who the speaker is.
Imagine taking up loans after loans when your parents have the money. What an ass, just for a minority 13% you want to break this system. Why make the majority 87% suffer just for this 13%.
Haha a worthless person who spends future money am I, how about you? Someone who doesn't even bother to compare the differences between the American education system and Singapore's education system? Think before you speak.
What a dumbass... maybe you can say that since 33.33% of Singaporeans (who had the chance to vote) voted for the opposition, we should do without the PAP since the mentality of the younger voters are swaying towards the opposition.
Haha... 13% and you want to make so much noise. -
Don't you know that the students have to fill up a form stating how much they want to return per month once they started working?Originally posted by boka:That is a good one.
OR do you not know about that? -
Very interesting discussion indeed, 5 pages in 24 hrs.
It is an undisputable fact that: "CPF is our money, we should be able to use them as we like", and I am all for using CPF for education.
To put the matter in perspective, how much are we talking about? University education in Singapore school fee alone, S$7500 per yr for SMU, S$6000 for NTU and NUS, excluding degree for Medicine. So total 3yrs S$25,000 max. If your parents cannot even afford to pay for you in cash in 3 years, I think the child should understand the problem and pay back your parents more than just S$700 a month. With a degree, and before you get married, this should not be problem. If you need ng eng hen to tell you to repay, you already failed as a person and not qualified to say talk about your fatherÂ’s CPF money. It would be better for you to go to UK and flip burgers.
If you have to go overseas, UK and US costs including living allowance S$70,000 per year or S$210,000 for 3 yrs. Australia would be S$50,000 per year or S$150,000. These are minimum figures and DO NOT include tickets back home between semesters, or trip round Europe or America during vacation. If you want that you have to flip burgers. Now that is a lot of money of your parents CPF, if they canÂ’t pay in cash. As children, you may choose not to pay them back into their CPF, but you must give your parents the assurance that you would pay them in cash or look after them in their older days, even, or especially if you decide to migrate there after your study. With an overseas degree, you should not have any problem, may be just delay buying your first house. Ng eng hen can say anything he likes, but you can sleep in peace because your father has assurance of your support at old age.
From the parents perspective, I will borrow from relatives and friends to support my children, especially if I have two or three children. I would be happy if they work hard enough to settle for a local U then my burden is less. I would be happy if they could pay me back so I can plan for my retirement. If they would agree to look after me at my old age, I would be happier even if I donÂ’t need or want that. On the other hand, if my children give me all the money I paid for them and see me only once a year, my days at old age would not be very happy, regardless of what ng eng hen says, or even if there were a new government.
So, are you the father or the sons? DonÂ’t let the government decides your family matters, but together we fight for better use and better returns for our money in the CPF. -
I'm saying such implementation of CPF funding for education can be possible if students are force to pay up their parents.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Don't you know that the students have to fill up a form stating how much they want to return per month once they started working?
OR do you not know about that? -
U sum it all up what i've just said.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Very interesting discussion indeed, 5 pages in 24 hrs.
It is an undisputable fact that: "CPF is our money, we should be able to use them as we like", and I am all for using CPF for education.
To put the matter in perspective, how much are we talking about? University education in Singapore school fee alone, S$7500 per yr for SMU, S$6000 for NTU and NUS, excluding degree for Medicine. So total 3yrs S$25,000 max. If your parents cannot even afford to pay for you in cash in 3 years, I think the child should understand the problem and pay back your parents more than just S$700 a month. With a degree, and before you get married, this should not be problem. If you need ng eng hen to tell you to repay, you already failed as a person and not qualified to say talk about your fatherÂ’s CPF money. It would be better for you to go to UK and flip burgers.
If you have to go overseas, UK and US costs including living allowance S$70,000 per year or S$210,000 for 3 yrs. Australia would be S$50,000 per year or S$150,000. These are minimum figures and DO NOT include tickets back home between semesters, or trip round Europe or America during vacation. If you want that you have to flip burgers. Now that is a lot of money of your parents CPF, if they canÂ’t pay in cash. As children, you may choose not to pay them back into their CPF, but you must give your parents the assurance that you would pay them in cash or look after them in their older days, even, or especially if you decide to migrate there after your study. With an overseas degree, you should not have any problem, may be just delay buying your first house. Ng eng hen can say anything he likes, but you can sleep in peace because your father has assurance of your support at old age.
From the parents perspective, I will borrow from relatives and friends to support my children, especially if I have two or three children. I would be happy if they work hard enough to settle for a local U then my burden is less. I would be happy if they could pay me back so I can plan for my retirement. If they would agree to look after me at my old age, I would be happier even if I donÂ’t need or want that. On the other hand, if my children give me all the money I paid for them and see me only once a year, my days at old age would not be very happy, regardless of what ng eng hen says, or even if there were a new government.
So, are you the father or the sons? DonÂ’t let the government decides your family matters, but together we fight for better use and better returns for our money in the CPF.
This is possible if childrens have the responsiblity to return the CPF funds so that the government do not have to concern themselve with retirement funds. -
Hello, we are talking about tertiary education, don't you know how the CPF education scheme even work? Oh my god and you are here making so much noise?Originally posted by boka:If u guys are complaining why u guys aren't able to use your cpf for the local uni fees then it shows what whinny bunches u are.
Local uni fees are max IF i'm not wrong is 30k?
30k can be easily acumulated after saving in NS and maybe working for 1 or 2 years after that.
I don't see a big issue of having to look for alternative funds like CPF or loans.
Secondly,if u guys are talking about overseas uni that is going to easily cost u 100K.
THEN won't this defiently be a concern for the government?
Do you know there is such a thing called a search engine? Do you even attempt to do your homework before making so much noise? You in my opinion reminds me of a whiner who whines on issues that aren't even an issue. Whining over nothing is real dumb.The scheme covers all approved full-time subsidised undergraduate courses leading to a degree at Nanyang Technological University (NTU), National University of Singapore (NUS) and Singapore Management University (SMU); and approved full-time diploma courses at LaSalle-SIA College of the Arts (LAS), Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts (NAFA), Nanyang Polytechnic (NYP), Ngee Ann Polytechnic (NP), Republic Polytechnic (RP), Singapore Polytechnic (SP) and Temasek Polytechnic (TP).
Part-time courses, postgraduate courses and overseas education are not included in the scheme. -
future singapore sleepers.
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However this was not the basis of your argument as we can all see from the following.Originally posted by boka:I'm saying such implementation of CPF funding for education can be possible if students are force to pay up their parents.Originally posted by boka:
You took one potshot at those who supported the CPF eduction scheme and lambasting us as worthless person without understanding the whole senario. The CPF board has implemented some form of governance in making sure that the student returns the money.
[b]It's the stupid sgnaporean mentality of "i must have a good education,smooth journey and at the same time have my share of entertainment and all this must not be comprimise"
FUK U!
I cant believe such thinking still exist in someone older than me.
U guys make it so rosy a picture.
Do not have enough money,dig the CPF and Still insufficent?DIG THE BANK LOANS.
PLS TRASH SUCH MENTALITY AS IT MAKES U LOOK LIKE A WORTHLESS PERSON WHO SPEND FUTURE MONEY.
I do not support the PAP but this one policy i see the need for them to enforce because if every parents are going to use their retirement piggy for education that can easily amount to 100k,then what is going to happen when they fall ill?or how can they support themselve through retirement.
U might say they can turn towards their children.
What joke,what more do the local youngsters care aside fun,fame,money and girl? [b]
From what I understand, we are only allowed up to 40% of the funds available in the CPF. Fees of 100k is unheard of for local tertiary education. Given Singaporean's emphasis on results and speed, we cannot afford the American's way of approaching education.
Should you take away the use of CPF money, ultimately it will be the parents who suffer because they might have to take on additional jobs just to see their child through their child's full time education.
But of course, it is the child's responsibility to see that he returns those money loaned from the CPF and their responsibility to see their parents through their old age. -
Ultimately like I said, they should not make the 87% suffer for the sake of the 13%. The figures do not add up, because we know that it is more than the 87% that would suffer... the parents of those 87% will be forced to find alternative ways to fund their child's education.
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Simply put, if the parents never exercised their option and excuse their kids from paying them back, the CPF Board can still initiate and has always initiated legal action against the kids for the money owed.
So I really think the minister is making a mountain out of a molehill. If people won't pay, then enforce the T&Cs and sue them in court. How hard is that? -
but u did not say the T&C should be implemented,that is why i'm very much against the witdrawing of cpf funds.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Simply put, if the parents never exercised their option and excuse their kids from paying them back, the CPF Board can still initiate and has always initiated legal action against the kids for the money owed.
So I really think the minister is making a mountain out of a molehill. If people won't pay, then enforce the T&Cs and sue them in court. How hard is that?
If there is T&C,then go ahead. -
Well, you can't borrow from your cpf to take a loan for overseas studies. So probably the maximum is only 20k. I wonder how long can you last if you so desperately need the 20k your child owns you.
You may say young people nowadays should go out and work to be financially independent but I rather my kid not have to go work for $7/hr for 2years after having to serve at 50cents/hour during his NS.
Perhaps some people should encourage their kid to do so to avoid being hypocritical.
We have the next 30-40yrs to work to be financially independent and secure. Getting a head start is so important nowadays.
If the govt is so concerned about helping us save that 20k, perhaps they ought to considering sponsoring 100students 10k each with their million dollar salaries or just lower the price of HDB flats by 20k across the board. -
Of course there will be T&Cs. Do you sign a loan without any paperwork?Originally posted by boka:but u did not say the T&C should be implemented,that is why i'm very much against the witdrawing of cpf funds.
If there is T&C,then go ahead.
Perhaps you really should take the advice of some of the chaps here and read up on the CPF Education Scheme before you raise your concerns.
Any education loan scheme has T&Cs. It's simple logic.
Ng Eng Hen is merely parroting what I believe to be his personal view on things. But we are wary because personal view on things have a nasty habit of becoming or influencing state policy. -
I will not let govt touch my CPF monies
have already invest 95% to my favourite unit trust
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I think the CPF board is broke and desperate.
They need to raise some money and those money better come fast if not things are going to get very ugly indeed...
We might be denied access to our CPF to pay for our HDBs soon.
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Hmm... well, the crisis will come to bear when the baby boomer generation start to withdraw their CPF which makes it during 1965 there abouts.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:I think the CPF board is broke and desperate.
They need to raise some money and those money better come fast if not things are going to get very ugly indeed...
We might be denied access to our CPF to pay for our HDBs soon.
That means this will happen come 2015-30. -
No one said it better than LazerLordzOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Save your breath mate.
I'm all for kids helping to pay for their own education, but to look down on parents who wish to help their children to acheive a leg-up in life, is something abhorrent and lacking in logic, not to mention simple decency.
If working at Macs can put one through University in Singapore, we wouldn't need any elderly workers anymore. But that is clearly not the case.
Someone needs a lesson in comparative sustainability of actions and wages.