SDP is SINGAPORE DEMORALIZE PARTY.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur: u all really got plenty of time
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Hehehe....Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Very creative!!! -
Is sgforums for entertainment based on inaccuracies, or should it be based on an intellectual experience based on facts as each of us see and experience around us ?Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Originally posted by Atobe:
Did he lose it along the way, or was the mass media manipulated to paint him in a different way that draws public revulsion towards him ?
The government has been ''playing'' with ''mass psychological manipulative methods'' - as can be seen in the month long preparations on the mass media that culminate in the ''mass hysteria'' seen in the final National Day hurrah.
If one is to trace the differences in methods used to deal with CSJ compared to ''political knuckle-dusters'' used towards JBJ in the 1980s, and the ''political steel rods'' against the luminaires from the Barisan Sosialis in the 1960s through 1970s - the manner in dealing with CSJ is more subtle.
The efforts in handling CSJ is in the indirect manipulation of mass media in subtle moulding of the public opinions and views towards CSJ - with carefully selected ''catch-words'' and ''labels'' that sticks onto CSJ personally.
It is as if a kid in school is stucked with a label for the duration of his school life, or that of a Recruit stuck with a label throughout his NSF.
Did ''SDP lost Chiam'' or is it more accurate to say ''SDP kicked Chiam out'' ?
''SDP losing Chiam'' indicate that Chiam left on his own accord, or that Chiam choose to be recruited by some other party in favor of the SDP that he created in the 1960s.
According to events that transpired, CSJ was maligned by his NUS Faculty Head - Dr Vasoo (an old-guard from the Ruling Party) - who had approved his expense claims more than a year ago before CSJ stood for election, but will later pull these papers out to accuse CSJ of cheating the NUS.
One must surely ask - Why did the NUS Faculty Head not vetted the claims a year ago before CSJ declared his candidacy to stand for elections under the SDP banner ?
According to the charges made by the NUS Faculty Head - CSJ had over claimed his taxi fare travelling from the NUS to some Child Care Centre for his research on child behavior - claiming some $1 to $2.00 extra, when the ''usual'' taxi fare from the NUS to the CCC should cost some X-fare.
One must surely question the idiocy of such a statement - as on different days, subject to traffic conditions, and on the many different routes that a taxi driver can take - the same trip between the NUS and CCC can cost differently.
The other cheating claim levelled at CSJ - was the charge that CSJ had included his wife's doctoral research together with his research for assessments by an Overseas University - both being sent under NUS funds, when his wife is not employed by NUS.
CSJ had claimed that his wife's doctoral research had formed part of the body of his research, and that it was not uncommon for such joint efforts and deliberate researches to be made.
CSJ went on hunger strike in protest for these false charges - which Chiam did not approve nor supported to the chagrin of the SDP Chairman Ling How Doong and the SDP Executive Committee and members.
One event led to another, and Chiam was then asked to leave.
However, Chiam held a press conference that deepened the antagonism between him and his Executive Committee, leading the SDP to call for a vote to kick Chiam out.
Did CSJ make any direct efforts to back-stab or play politics with Chiam to usurp Chiam's Chair ?
Or was the fact of the matter being that the events and circumstances of the tumultuous clash between CSJ and Dr Vasoo - resulted in the SDP seeing Chiam for what he truly is, and caused SDP to abandon Chiam in favor of CSJ - as Chiam was already seen to be ineffective in Parliament for more then 10 years ?
This was heavy material grasped by any political opportunists to use to black tar CSJ - who was then the most credible threat from a new generation, one that was equally qualified to be recruited even to the Ruling Party - (and which CSJ had stated that he was courted by his faculty head to join the PAP but declined).
If CSJ is what he is today, it is largely due to the raw political medicine that the Ruling Party had dispensed to deal with CSJ's decision in not accepting the hand that looked after him at NUS.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Atobe, did you help him (chee) out? or is sgforums for entertainment only?
One man's meat is another man's poison.Originally posted by Daddy!!:
You hate the oppressive and corrupt Ming emperor: will you collaborate with the Manchus, betray your country and let the gates down for the Manchu soldiers in?[/quote]
Are the Ming or the Manchus descendants of Han ?
By your logic, you will probably not even support Sun Yat Sen as it would be seen as betrayal of the Manchus too - as you will rather not disturb the status quo ?Originally posted by Daddy!!:
I am uncertain of your agenda to paint me in SDP's colors.
My next question is : Is Atobe supporting Chee who exhibits a power hungry character, failed/betrayed his mentor and behaves like a traitor to his own country ?
Low looked into the eyes of Chiam and say "i have Sylvia Lim". Chiam at best can only say "I USED to have Chee". What a sad story.
Was Chiam seen as a mentor to CSJ, or was it Ling How Doong ?
CSJ was portrayed as a traitor to Singapore as much as he was portrayed to be a cheat for an extra $2 taxi fare and $40 postage - which his Faculty Head willingly approve before CSJ entered politics on the side of the Alternative Parties.
You should be more honestly accurate in showing that Low had the support and trust of the WP men and women on his side; while Chiam can only say that he lost the trust and support of his Chairman, his Executive Committee and his Party Members.Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Soul_rage, i am not against having a credible and reliable opposition. but Chee is highly questionable. Lets not be desperate to support any opposition.
It will be interesting to know where you get your knowledge and training in ''medicine'' to know which is poison, or have you depended on some Mentor's opinion and experience ? Even the Mentor is human and has been proven wrong in his judgment of human characters more then once.
Are you up to it ?
[quote]Originally posted by Daddy!!:
I saw Chiam's facial expression. I hardly read newspaper. Where is your heart?
Are you happy to be thrown out by your own party which you built up and then your position replaced by a man you helped to succeed in politics? Was CSJ already made a success by Chiam before Chiam was thrown out by SDP ?
CSJ had only stood for one election and was already in trouble, when the Ruling Party began a thinly disguised effort to discredit CSJ.
The effort to discredit CSJ was identical to LKY infamous effort in discreditting a popular Chiam publicly at Fullerton Square in the mid-1970s - by telling Singaporeans about Chiam's poor O-Level Results compared to his MIW.
Was CSJ made a political success by Chiam as you have made it out to be - when CSJ was already in deep trouble ever since he made his first appearance in the First Election, resulting in one events after another that got Chiam thrown out of the SDP before Chee's second Election ?
You certainly have shown us your ''factual version of events'' very well.
Is SgForum entertainment for you to spread your kind of opinions based on what you are ''led to see, read, and interpreted for you'' ?
Surely, we will expect someone called ''Daddy!!'' to be more dependable with his opinions, or were you calling someone ''Daddy!!'' for some help ? -
I am not aware that my views have affected anyone, or spread to so many. Any straw polls taken ?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:If you haven't realized, Adobe has clarified and reversed much of the negative air about Chee in many people and the views have spread, which that isn't helping Chee out I don't know what is.
What is with your ''wishy-washy'' position ?Originally posted by Daddy!!:
the information is lost once the thread becomes old and forgotten.[/quote]
So what is your paranoia about - if information is lost once the thread becomes old and forgotten ?
Are your allegations of my efforts ''to clear the air for CSJ'' also similarly wistful ?Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:
Pfftt... help is so general. By clearing the air he's also helping Dr Chee out...
agreed. he cleared the air at least for me. unfortunately, it is not enough. as i would say 98% of singaporeans dont know. what else do you think Atobe could have done more?
Should I be helping CSJ more with my views ?
[quote]
by the way, I saw Chiam out and Chee taking the leadership, then my sixth sense tells me that Chee is inherently power hungry. I saw Chiam looking down and losing much zeal. If Chiam and Chee were to work amicably together, we might have one more opposition MP (chee) now.
Correct me if i am wrong. Chiam was Chee's Mentor and Chiam brought Chee into SDP. If Chee is a good man, shouldn't he join Chiam when Chiam left SDP? Instead, he stayed with the group of people who opposed Chiam and took over leadership (Chiam's) position. That is, in my opinion, a betrayer's attitude. Now he brought in EU MPs to Singapore (whether it is politically beneficial to singapore or not), has the pattern of a betrayer's action.When Singapore was part of Malaysia, and UMNO used bullying racist strategies towards Singapore, who do you think the Singapore State Government was selling this picture to ?
Was it for the consumption of Singaporeans alone or to the wider world audience to get moral support and put external pressures onto the Federal Government of Malaysia ?
Singapore was then part of Malaysia, made possible by LKY's purposeful effort - will it not seen to be similar betrayal of Malaysia, which we were then a part of ?
Surely you are not so naive to believe that this is a new game played in politics against those with stronger overwhelming power.
If Chee's ''supposed method'' is not approved, how should we judge LKY's methods of praising Lim Chin Siong as the Future Prime Minister of Singapore - only to use the ISA to incarcerate Lim and removed as a political threat in the takeover of the Singapore PM's position ?
Did Chiam bring in CSJ or was CSJ brought into SDP by Ling How Doong - who had already several disagreements with Chiam's seemingly soft method in ''sleeping with the enemy'' ?
Chee's takeover of the SDP's Secretarial General position was an accidental consequence from the ongoing political turmoil between Ling and Chiam that had erupted on at least two earlier occassions in SDP history.
Even the Young PAP's website had documented the internal turmoil between Ling and Chiam BEFORE Chee had even appeared on the political scene -''SDP chairman Ling How Doong won in Bukit Gombak, former vice-chairman Cheo Chai Chen captured Nee Soon Central and over at the Workers' Party, Mr Low Thia Khiang won a seat in Hougang.
With three prized seats, the SDP was hailed as the most promising opposition party and Mr Chiam became the unofficial leader of the opposition.
But behind the scenes, the seeds of division grew as internal politicking created rifts, with party members aligning themselves with one of the three SDP MPs.
From the clash of personalities to differences of views over town council management, the split within SDP grew even wider.
It culminated in a fight over a hunger strike by Dr Chee in 1993 to protest his dismissal from the National University of Singapore as a neuropsychology lecturer for misusing research funds.
Mr Chiam lost in the ensuing battle and eventually resigned from his party post in 1993.
A year and a half after Mr Chiam stepped down, Dr Chee became the party boss. Many within the party then saw him as a promising star, given his academic credentials, and preferred his 'confrontational style' to Mr Chiam's more cautious stance.''
Unfortunately, the Young PAP's website was incomplete and inaccurate in mentioning Chee as if he was already in the SDP during the rifts, and that Chiam resigned from the party and abdicated his SDP Secretary-General Post to Chee - when he was actually given a ''No Confidence'' vote by his Chairman, the SDP Executive Committee, and its members.
Unlike LKY's engineered political ascendancy, CSJ ''political career'' is definitely more star crossed then what you have made it all out to be a purposeful planned effort.
Do you think that my opinion can even scratch the hardened image of CSJ that the Mass Media has cast in concrete with the amount of disinformation poured out by the Ruling Party ?
One would think that when the Ruling Party put in extra efforts to discredit someone, it would reveal the immense threat that is seen in that person.
CSJ came into politics in the 1992 Election like a lightning from a clear blue sky - a first credible and qualified professional since Dr Lee Siew Choh - just when the ground was being prepared for the ascendancy of LHL, when the bigger political threats from JBJ, Tan Liang Hong, and Francis Seow were all dealt their death blows by LKY's signature methods from the 1950s.
For CSJ to enjoy a smooth political ride - (as WP-Low had enjoyed) - will only threaten the calm and serene political environment that LKY had planned for LHL's political future.
This planned environment is critical not only for LHL political well-being, but also to his personal health, as he had been cured of cancer that can re-surface under any stressful or aggravating circumstances.
Is Singapore in safe hands ? -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
Well said...
well, one more is better than one less.
I don't think 98% of Singaporeans don't know.
I suspect many of us are just fearful of the current regime.
Every drop of water makes an ocean - more so when there are only one working member and one sleeping member from the Alternative Parties in a 84 seats Singapore Parliament.
It is amazing that we can accept the opinion of the Ruling Party that only credible persons should be in Parliament - and only those whom they see as credible will qualify.
It seems that the Ruling Party will want Singaporeans to accept the likes of either a hardworking Low from WP but who is ineffective in his verbal delivery, or a congenial Chiam from SDA who would rather be polite and accomodating then be resourcefully forceful on so many matters of public concerns.
Are the MIW filled with qualified and credible persons in Parliament - past and present MP who have represented Singaporeans ?
At least three were found to be corrupt - one committed suicide, one jailed, and one absconded from justice - and at least three more were quietly moved out under murmurs of moral misconduct that were best discreetly disposed.
Why should we submit ourselves to the arbitrary standards of the Elitists, who are certainly not altruistic in keeping their positions less exclusive ?
Anyone who is not mentally insane, or found to be morally unacceptable by the standards of the Singaporean Heartlanders is qualified to represent Singaporeans. -
I look great with you fellas dancing around me.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur: -
+1Originally posted by Mat Toro:I look great with you fellas dancing around me.
Erm, as long as we don't have the cow head -
Oi! How long you people planning to carry on this thing?
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Until that idiot quits screwing every thread.Originally posted by wisefool83:Oi! How long you people planning to carry on this thing? -
Everybody, we all should do well to ignore this Toro fellow...
he's here picking verbal fights with everyone, and in effect, distracting every topic...
this I believe is his objective...
from here henceforth, EVERYONE please ignore his caustic remarks...
so far, as evident in every thread, he's proven to be nothing but a pain in everyone's ass... -
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
Have you seen spastics attracting attention to themselves as they are helpless with their purposefully executed spasmodic antics ?
Everybody, we all should do well to ignore this Toro fellow...
he's here picking verbal fights with everyone, and in effect, distracting every topic...
this I believe is his objective...
from here henceforth, EVERYONE please ignore his caustic remarks...
so far, as evident in every thread, he's proven to be nothing but a pain in everyone's ass...
It is surprising that he will respond to behave more reasonably when recognition is given to his spastic mentality.
It is definitely sad that the spastically handicapped is brought into a bad light by characters like Mat who imitate their handicapped existence. -
Actually I stopped taking him seriously long ago, he's just fertile ground for parody and entertainment for the forum.
I say we kick him down a well!
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Indeed, Honorable Atobe...!Originally posted by Atobe:Have you seen spastics attracting attention to themselves as they are helpless with their purposefully executed spasmodic antics ?
It is surprising that he will respond to behave more reasonably when recognition is given to his spastic mentality.
It is definitely sad that the spastically handicapped is brought into a bad light by characters like Mat who imitate their handicapped existence.
He can do with a really good dose of your Heavy Artillary rebuttals...! -
LOL, if you realize he has given up on trying to respond to Atobe liao...Originally posted by HyperFocal:Indeed, Honorable Atobe...!
He can do with a really good dose of your Heavy Artillary rebuttals...! -
ROFLOL!!!!Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Actually I stopped taking him seriously long ago, he's just fertile ground for parody and entertainment for the forum.
I say we kick him down a well! -
quote:
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
You hate the oppressive and corrupt Ming emperor: will you collaborate with the Manchus, betray your country and let the gates down for the Manchu soldiers in?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Are the Ming or the Manchus descendants of Han ?
By your logic, you will probably not even support Sun Yat Sen as it would be seen as betrayal of the Manchus too - as you will rather not disturb the status quo ?
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quote:
Are you saying the Manchus and the Mings are both Hans ?
I take it that you would let the gates down for the Manchus to come in to destroy the Ming dynasty if you were there. The general who collaborated with the enemy whom he had been fighting for years so that he could become a king/duke himself. -
So Atobe, did you help him (chee) out? -
by the way, the clips are funny. caused some laughs out of me. thank you
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I take it that you would let the gates down for the Manchus to come in to destroy the Ming dynasty if you were there. The general who collaborated with the enemy whom he had been fighting for years so that he could become a king/duke himself.
What makes you think the idea of nationhood is firmly embedded in the mindset of the Singaporean anyway, given its people have been told over and over again that pragmatism ought to rule over ideas.
Unfortunately, nationhood is an idea, and to no surprise the core tenets of nationhood like the rights of every citizen are becoming less and less important- is it really strange that Singaporeans in general do not care about Singapore as a nation?
In our case there is really little difference between the foreign and local opressor. But I seriously doubt Chee's idea is to usher in just another opressive system. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
you are rather negative with what i write. I stated that "the information is lost once the thread becomes old and forgotten." I think this is fair. I am a new member to this forum and I find it is very difficult to trace threads for useful information. from which part of this statement did i accuse you with anything at all? boi song see mee.
quote:
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
the information is lost once the thread becomes old and forgotten.
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So what is your paranoia about - if information is lost once the thread becomes old and forgotten ?
Are your allegations of my efforts ''to clear the air for CSJ'' also similarly wistful ? -
ok. What is Chee trying to do, in your opinion?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:What makes you think the idea of nationhood is firmly embedded in the mindset of the Singaporean anyway, given its people have been told over and over again that pragmatism ought to rule over ideas.
Unfortunately, nationhood is an idea, and to no surprise the core tenets of nationhood like the rights of every citizen are becoming less and less important- is it really strange that Singaporeans in general do not care about Singapore as a nation?
In our case there is really little difference between the foreign and local opressor. But I seriously doubt Chee's idea is to usher in just another opressive system.
What do you see as an ideal Singapore as a nation? -
So I guess I am reasonable to assume that you would rather let a foreign and more democratic/less oppressive power to rule over singapore?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:In our case there is really little difference between the foreign and local opressor. -
In my opinion Chee's an activist, not a politician. If there is a method to his madness or if it is just sheer madness is something to be speculated on, but the points he has raised are quite valid once a person stops and take a look on them beyond the flash and flair.Originally posted by Daddy!!:ok. What is Chee trying to do, in your opinion?
What do you see as an ideal Singapore as a nation?
The thing is, agree or disagree, the issues he has raised need to be talked about as opposed to be disregarded as completely irrelevant to Singapore, and indeed people are now talking about them. There is something seriously disturbing about a very the consitution of a nation that justifies its own existence on the vote of the people have its leaders spread the notion that the vote of the people isn't the most important thing as long as there is survival.
Please refer to the tens of thread in this forum on this issue by many people who have spoken their piece, and you can get an idea of how they want Singapore to change. -
So Atobe, did you meaningfully help him (chee) out? Of course, unless, you are chee himself.