JI Changi airport control tower....
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who will benefit most... if changi airport control tower is hit by a suicide 'JI terrorist'......?
currently... changi airport CT controls civilian air traffic over a huge expanse covering the entire southern half of south china sea... east and west malaysia airspace and part of indonesia airspace....
could it be?......
1. malaysia who have always wanted regional air traffic control to be from KL newest airport?? a disabled changi CT would effectively results in KLIA as the new de facto regional air control centre....
2. JI terrorist.....??
a roasted duck....
3. Indonesia?? Too free har?
hmm.... i also ponder.... why the JI operatives aimed at both the control tower as well as the radar station used by the control tower.... hmmm........
the changi control tower can be (stretched abit) considered as a national symbol.... BUT a radar for air traffic control is also a national symbol meh??? since when???
IF i am a TRUE BLUE JI terrorist... wont it be more 'GLORIUS' if i chiong the plane into terminal 1 or terminal 2?? the damage would be more spectacular and you effectively clear Changi airport right off the global map.....
Why the idea of chionging on the control tower.... seems to me... the intention... was not at hitting a singapore symbol.... They seems more intent on taking out the CAAS air traffic control..... to the benefit of you know who......*look north*
lastly.... if i want to hit a singapore symbol of power.... i would have gone for the parliament house opposite the funan centre.... Even the tall tall banking buildings looks far better then changi tower.....
I suspect... a malaysian hand in the JI......affair....
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give it a rest tripwire... read this.
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw02/020921ag.htm
i think they would have put in more effort to train whoever they intended to unleash on poor 'lil singapore... at least along the lines of the Confrontation... at least the HAD explosives, were properly trained and succeeded in setting it off at mcdonald house...
this is just a half-baked attempt at matyrdom which went badly wrong... airlines don't shift overnight to other airports offering better rates... and it is actually possible to have a temporary setup to replace the control towers even if they were blown up. 80-90% of the capabilities could be restored within hours.
good idea to crash planes into T1 and T2, but i don't think the JI actually had the funding or the training to pull it off. the Al Q plan took months and lots of money. if Al Q had been determined to pull something off here, they would have succeeded. they wouldn't have relied too much on a bunch of half-trained imbeciles. -
Well, everything is possible... Since these terrorists do not conform to conventional thinking, it is hard for us to try and find out their intentions, especially if they wake up one day and say "hey, lets bomb some radars, that will confuse everyone". So lets leave the guesswork and investigations to the ISD, there is no point for us to ponder over such matters which is beyond us.
As for half-trained, I do not know, but they have a cause and are determined to reach it, it is just that they were arrested before they could pull off anything. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to turn a plane downwards, or pull a pin on a grenade, I don't think we should under-estimate our enemy. -
I reccommed that henceforth....
any terrorist attack on singapore.....that come to fruition...
we will simply pin all the blame on malaysia ISD or MAF and call malaysia a terrorist state...
before maharaja even rub his eyes.... the CNN will have malaysia branded and sealed as terrorist state throughout the world .... and SAF tanks would be charging up to KL.....
and once KL is in our hand.... i am very sure that our very capable ISD will dug up some nasty secret if not 'proof' of malaysian criminal evidence.... muahahaaa....
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Go ahead man.....I rather we catch the bloody terrorist.
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eh... u mean use any terrorist attack as a pretext to start war, invade them and then blame them for starting it with fabricated evidence?
grow up... -
Talking about conspiracy and terrorist attacks as pretext for war, did WW1 start off that way? History does repeat itself.
Some argued that the revolutionary Black Hand society (backed by the Serbian military), assassinated Duke Ferdinand, the heir to the Austrian throne, in Serbia. The Serbs knew that Russia would be forced to come to their aid once the Austrians started rattling their swords. And look what happened -
well true, but the situation now is not as straightforward as that time. no state is actually bound by treaty to go to war for anyone else's sake now and u can't actually pin the blame on a specific country.Originally posted by whack:Talking about conspiracy and terrorist attacks as pretext for war, did WW1 start off that way? History does repeat itself.
Some argued that the revolutionary Black Hand society (backed by the Serbian military), assassinated Duke Ferdinand, the heir to the Austrian throne, in Serbia. The Serbs knew that Russia would be forced to come to their aid once the Austrians started rattling their swords. And look what happened
they seem to be trying to do that with iraq, but i really don't think that the world would be a better place once saddam hussein is removed.
terrorist now is transnational. its not just countries supporting maniacs to further their interests, but terrorists acquiring their own substantial resources to exert influence in people and nations in a manner that would've been impossible 100 years ago.
so while it might seem that someone might be supporting terrorism, we gotta bear in mind that they may not be the only ones and that terrorists are well capable of supporting themselves without the backing of states as well...
many people have been saying that the root of the problem is not the taliban, al q or osama, but the perception that the USA is oppressing and exploiting muslims.
there is certainly the perception that sg is no friend of islam to many people... so i think the JI would be just as willing to work alone with or without any support from foreign gov'ts. its just too easy to pin the blame on a country cos its right there, but terrorism is not just a tangible organisational entity; it is a psychological tendency.
but i still think that the JI was was strangled while still in its infancy. we give them too much credit if we think that they got so close... objectively speaking, they never stood a chance.[/i] -
Hi CX
Terrorism has indeed changed since WW1. True, terrorists can support themselves and do not need state resources as much as they needed to unless they want to buy a nuke device.
"but i still think that the JI was was strangled while still in its infancy. we give them too much credit if we think that they got so close... objectively speaking, they never stood a chance."
I may have misunderstood you but you are implying that the Yishun MRT, water pipes survey were merely surveys and the JI couldn't do more? Based on newspaper reports and the JI's regional network, they looked like they were serious and capable in carrying out their plans? -
nopeOriginally posted by whack:I may have misunderstood you but you are implying that the Yishun MRT, water pipes survey were merely surveys and the JI couldn't do more? Based on newspaper reports and the JI's regional network, they looked like they were serious and capable in carrying out their plans?
u heard me right. the newspapers here only tell u what they want u to hear... the gov't is very open about such a policy. the press is the gov't instrument to promote the official position.
thats why we don't have a lot of investigative journalism or liberal editorial opinions. now i know what sort of damages an irresponsible free press can do and thats not what we're talking about here.
my point is, the whole "conspiracy" against the state has been blown out of proportion. now the truckload of fertilizer is spooky, i know. but does anyone have any idea how much trouble it is to process that stuff into explosives! from the way the ST reported it, u'ld think that fertilizer can explode by itself. thats absurd.
and u can't hide that sort of thing... not in tiny Sg... u'll also need lots of nitric acid to do the job. its dangerous, smelly and really obvious! not something u can do in a HDB flat without your kaypoh neighbours finding out and definitely not something u can do overnight. it takes WEEKS... one pound at a time, one painful step at a time.
and taking pictures of buildings and installations do not equate a credible plot. i could go out there and take a bunch of pictures for u too... would that mean that i am able to blow up the buildings whenever i want to?
thats why i feel that while its scary to know that these wackos lived amongst us for so long, we gotta put things into its proper perspective and not just react to whatever's presented to us in the news. -
Hi CX
You sound as if the wackos should not be arrested in the first place since although they have an intent to carry out sabotage they did not have the capability to do so. So are you saying that those wackos will never develop such a capability even though some have trained in Afghanistan and have ties with Al Q guys in the region? Maybe the JI wackos were rounded up before they could develop the capablity?
On the conspiracy theory blown out of proportion thing, maybe, it is certainly hard to say. But it is certainly easy to say that such scepticism was exactly what FBI and CIA felt on 10 Sep 2001 about terrorists crashing filled passenger airplanes into buildings in NYC and DC . -
SG is small..for a singaporean to leave a country n goin somewhere..tat no one would go in the right state of mind ..its easily noticeble...i once went past tis news article abt the announcement of the 1st arrest of JI member..the announcement was make by our SM...in the report he state tat way before ISD got hold of the tape(found in Afghanistan) by the US..the ISD have oredi known abt the existence of the group way before Sept11 n have them tail 24/7...wat i mean is..they have no chance at all to do anything..no chance at allOriginally posted by whack:Hi CX
You sound as if the wackos should not be arrested in the first place since although they have an intent to carry out sabotage they did not have the capability to do so. So are you saying that those wackos will never develop such a capability even though some have trained in Afghanistan and have ties with Al Q guys in the region? Maybe the JI wackos were rounded up before they could develop the capablity?
On the conspiracy theory blown out of proportion thing, maybe, it is certainly hard to say. But it is certainly easy to say that such scepticism was exactly what FBI and CIA felt on 10 Sep 2001 about terrorists crashing filled passenger airplanes into buildings in NYC and DC . -
I think that some of you have are very complacent on this issue. Terrorism and terrorists cannot be under-estimated by any measure. You and I know that they can do anything they want, whichever way they want, especially if they operate in small cells, or even individually. I agree that the JI has been given a big blow as many members were arrested for what they had tried to do, but that is no guarantee that there are no more members, or there are no more groups out there. I find it very rhetoric when someone says that they can't have the capability to do that. It is a very complacent mentality, must you wait until something happens before it can be changed?
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yea wat u say is so true...
but if there r still some of them lurking around..we cant do anything also..cos we're not sure ourself who r the one..
we just have to leave it to the ISD for the job...n help out as much as possible..rite? -
i don't mean to imply that we should do nothing until something blows up. but it doesn't help to exaggerate a threat out of proportion.
like i said before: these people never stood a chance because Sg is so small. u can't take a shit without them knowing what u ate the day before!! how on earth were they going to refine so much fertiizer into TNT without anyone finding out! but the press was talking about it as if the fertilizer could explode by itself! hello! its fertilizer! not plutonium!!
and i did not say that we ought to have left these people alone. that they were caught is a good thing. they could have done a lot of damage and they had every intention and commitment to do so.
but they were no where close as far as the physical preparations were concerned and it would have been extremely unlikely that they could get that far under the constraints they were working under. -
CX, I agree with your general views, but maybe you could change your perspective. I concur that it is extremely difficult for them to produce explosives here, and perhaps the media is being too hyped up on this issue, however, we must realise that explosives and bombs are not the only way they can work. If your arguments are based solely on the fact that they will rely on explosives, then I agree with your views. If that was only an example, then I beg to differ.
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not that i'm being bigoted or anything but they WERE intending to use bombs and they failed. no point speculating that they COULD have used other methods.
bombs were chosen with good reasons. its a terrorist favourite. its loud, its effective and it makes a point. it makes people sit up and listen.
u don't get the same effect by unscrewing a water pipe with a monkey wrench. u could try driving a truck through the gates and crash it somewhere but u won't get very far.
they don't just have means. they also had ends the hoped to achieve with these means so they won't use ANY available method, but methods which can correspond to these ends. -
Makes sense, but these guys are labelled terrorists for a reason. They do not conform to logical thinking, and it is suicide if we try to figure out what they are going to do by OUR logic. In other words, we may never know how they think, not even top psychologists will be able to do it.
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With the kind of rhetoric spouting from the mouth of PM of Malaysia, calling for the understanding of the cause of such events as the Bali's bombing, it is little wonder that Malaysia is tied in with the bunch of egg heads looking for similar sympathy.Originally posted by tripwire:And so it would seems....
that our friendly neighbour to the north... DOES have connections of sort with well known terrorist.....
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/latest/story/0,4390,150271,00.html?
I sincerely doubt the UN would actually name a particular nations involvement if they dont have sufficient proof....
BEWARE....... somebody get those nukes primmed first... we might just gonna need it...
They have been sympathisers to the MNLF cause in the southern Philippines, as well as to the Muslim brethens fighting for autonomy in Southern Thailand, as well as to the Aceh rebels.
With any self-declared practitioner of the Islamic faith, and with a Muslim sounding name in the passport, all and sundry are granted free access rights to visit Malaysia without any prohibitive visa arrangements.
Malaysia can only be a safe haven to such terrorists, and as events unfolded we have seen the 911 terrorists moving freely in and out of Malaysia.
What more proof do we need further ? -
Honestly, I would question the credibility of the author of the book. Sri Lanka is not the most err... trusted source of information is it?
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Ask any american working at the WTC b4 911 whether the terrorist had any chance at crashing the building with planes, i think most of them will say "They Got No Chance".
So i think we shouldnt underestimate the JIs. We should learn from mistakes and never must have this "They Got No Chance" mentality
about terrorism even in Singapore. -
Maybe tripwire's theories being substantiated now. That Dr Rohan guy said BN has links to Al Qaeda terrorists. After all the KMM/JI terrorists caught in Malaysia, none of them wanted to bomb Malaysia unlike those in Singapore who wanted to crumble MRT stations and burst water pipes.
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This post deserves theOriginally posted by tripwire:I reccommed that henceforth....
any terrorist attack on singapore.....that come to fruition...
we will simply pin all the blame on malaysia ISD or MAF and call malaysia a terrorist state...
before maharaja even rub his eyes.... the CNN will have malaysia branded and sealed as terrorist state throughout the world .... and SAF tanks would be charging up to KL.....
and once KL is in our hand.... i am very sure that our very capable ISD will dug up some nasty secret if not 'proof' of malaysian criminal evidence.... muahahaaa....