Double Standards
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This morning, I drove pass a secondary school. I saw a group of about 15 students standing outside a locked gate guarded by some students inside. I look at the digital clock inside my car and it shows 7:22am.
Just then 1 young lady came to the gate and the student opened the gate, then another car drove in and the gate was opened for it to enter. I assume that these 2 must be teaching staff.
May I ask this, if the student are penalised for being late (class start 7.30am), why then are the "late comer" teaching staff spared the "punishment". Have our MOE admistrator so blindly followed the rules but did not know that the rules applies to themselves? Have they also fall into point fingers out that they forgot that 3 fingers are pointing inward? -
I dun think it's the MOE's fault. It's the school principal who sets the rules for the school.......
In any case, school rules are meant for school students only. Don't apply to teachers and other non-teaching staff mah.......
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...hence Bad Examples are passed on to students who in turn, later in life passes it on as well..
a vicous cycles ensues and prevails as to date...
what's new? -
yes i agreeOriginally posted by :I dun think it's the MOE's fault. It's the school principal who sets the rules for the school.......
In any case, school rules are meant for school students only. Don't apply to teachers and other non-teaching staff mah....... -
zhi zun guan jia fang huo bu zun ren ming dian deng.
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Thank god that TS didnt ask why the teaching staffs are not wearing school uniform...Originally posted by :I dun think it's the MOE's fault. It's the school principal who sets the rules for the school.......
In any case, school rules are meant for school students only. Don't apply to teachers and other non-teaching staff mah....... -
not all the school staff start work at 7am. Some of us start only at 8am or 9am.
Maybe they are afternoon session staff who came early for CCA or something.
Because i know that morning session teachers need to report by 7am. If they are late, there might be disciplinary action taken by the principal individually not with the students =P. Imagine teachers kena locked out by their own students. Whos gonna take their first morning class. =P -
How can it be a bad example when the rules don't apply to them?Originally posted by HyperFocal:...hence Bad Examples are passed on to students who in turn, later in life passes it on as well..
a vicous cycles ensues and prevails as to date...
what's new? -
.. the exhibition of Teachers being imune to any disciplinary rulings for being late, are examples bad enough... as is relevant to the thread's title "Double Standards"Originally posted by Mat Toro:How can it be a bad example when the rules don't apply to them? -
I am more concern about the insidious politicising of the school's system.
Racial harmony day, singing of national songs, history textbooks that paint glorious pictures of the PAP, skit and dance, listening to school principal giving speeches that are so skew and many, many endless activities. Many are insidious in the sense that they are meant to brainwash these young people.
Don't get me wrong. Not all are not bad per se but the relentless pursuit of such things. Forcing student to participate to earn point, waking them up early in the morning before school assembly to sing such songs.
Boy, I sure glad that I am not a schoolboy now and I don't wish such things upon anyone. Long live communist Singapore. -
You observed the event for don't know many seconds (how long you took to drive pass), made some assumptions, and then you point fingers. One finger you pointed at the 2 who "must be teaching staff" for being late, second figure you pointed at MOE admistrator for blindly followed the rules.Originally posted by SevenEleven:This morning, I drove pass a secondary school. I saw a group of about 15 students standing outside a locked gate guarded by some students inside. I look at the digital clock inside my car and it shows 7:22am.
Just then 1 young lady came to the gate and the student opened the gate, then another car drove in and the gate was opened for it to enter. I assume that these 2 must be teaching staff.
May I ask this, if the student are penalised for being late (class start 7.30am), why then are the "late comer" teaching staff spared the "punishment". Have our MOE admistrator so blindly followed the rules but did not know that the rules applies to themselves? Have they also fall into point fingers out that they forgot that 3 fingers are pointing inward?
For the 2 fingers you use, you have 6 fingers pointing at yourself:
1. The student prefects inside the gate were only responsible to stop and take down names of students who are late, any other people, not in uniform will be allowed in. On what basis do you assume that these 2 MUST be teaching staff? just so you can point finger?
2. Who says teaching staff must report to schools the same time as the students? the students have their time table and the teachers theirs according to the requirements. Cannot tell the difference between students and teachers?
3. What has MOE administrator got to do with this? They implement students', and teaching staff disciplines? you don't know what you are talking about.
4. Students learn from what the teachers teach them, they don't follow what the teachers do! We don't expect students to follow when teachers stay back late in the evening having meetings. Did you learn from your teachers? you are expected to see and follow the example of your parents, but you don't have enough time to observe and understand what your teachers do.
5. Why are you not surprised at the number of students kena locked out, why that day there up to 15 students late for school, sympathize with them?
6. Why are you not pointing fingers at the students parents, why did they allow their children to be late for school?
Don't assume until you have thought it over, don't shoot until you know there would be no backfire. -
gou pi bu tong, guan ming zhen neng he shi sheng xiang bi.Originally posted by dragg:zhi zun guan jia fang huo bu zun ren ming dian deng. -
If teacher late, they'll have salary deducted. So every teacher want's to get their card punch by 7.30am.
As for student, each and every school have their way to deal with them. -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:You observed the event for don't know many seconds (how long you took to drive pass), made some assumptions, and then you point fingers. One finger you pointed at the 2 who "must be teaching staff" for being late, second figure you pointed at MOE admistrator for blindly followed the rules.
For the 2 fingers you use, you have 6 fingers pointing at yourself:
1. The student prefects inside the gate were only responsible to stop and take down names of students who are late, any other people, not in uniform will be allowed in. On what basis do you assume that these 2 MUST be teaching staff? just so you can point finger?
yes, i did assume that those 2 could have being a teacher unless the cleaner drove to work or the cleaner come in executive style dressing.
2. Who says teaching staff must report to schools the same time as the students? the students have their time table and the teachers theirs according to the requirements. Cannot tell the difference between students and teachers?
nobody did, but to see that the students are lockout before school starts and the teachers are allowed in didn't make sense.
3. What has MOE administrator got to do with this? They implement students', and teaching staff disciplines? you don't know what you are talking about.
am i not right that, principals and teachers are adminstrators designated by MOE?
4. Students learn from what the teachers teach them, they don't follow what the teachers do! We don't expect students to follow when teachers stay back late in the evening having meetings. Did you learn from your teachers? you are expected to see and follow the example of your parents, but you don't have enough time to observe and understand what your teachers do.
i agree, but have you heard or seen some who gathered and smoke with their students in polythenics? no, i have not seen them but heard about it thru my son.
5. Why are you not surprised at the number of students kena locked out, why that day there up to 15 students late for school, sympathize with them?
some time I ask, schol starts at 7.30am. you are late at 7.25am?
6. Why are you not pointing fingers at the students parents, why did they allow their children to be late for school?
yes, i agree that whoever is late is subjected to the rules. but if the top is not straight, the bottom is crook
Don't assume until you have thought it over, don't shoot until you know there would be no backfire.
no, it's just a thought that pop-up. -
Teachers and students should be govern by their own set of rules. In these case student have the school rules, while teachers follows the staff rules. I am very sure action will be taken for late teachers even though we do not see it take place (e.g no promotion, lousy appraisal etc). Same goes for the late students, will have their name taken followed by detention. Cannot apply the same set of rules to different set of people.
example, in schools sometimes student can get away skipping school by simply having a parent letter explaining why the student cannot come to school. Can teachers do that also? =P So different set of rules applies to different set of people.
and different school have different starting of school time. While some school operates at 7.20,7.25,7.30. It all depends on the school. and maybe you asked why its considered late at 7.25am when the school start at 7.30 is because your watch not sync with the school timing? -
thank you.Originally posted by faizul81:Teachers and students should be govern by their own set of rules. In these case student have the school rules, while teachers follows the staff rules. I am very sure action will be taken for late teachers even though we do not see it take place (e.g no promotion, lousy appraisal etc). Same goes for the late students, will have their name taken followed by detention. Cannot apply the same set of rules to different set of people.
example, in schools sometimes student can get away skipping school by simply having a parent letter explaining why the student cannot come to school. Can teachers do that also? =P So different set of rules applies to different set of people.
and different school have different starting of school time. While some school operates at 7.20,7.25,7.30. It all depends on the school. and maybe you asked why its considered late at 7.25am when the school start at 7.30 is because your watch not sync with the school timing? -
Did those 2 come in in executive style dressing? if they are then they are definitely not teaching staff, school teaching staff don't come in executive attire. These days all are smart casual.Originally posted by SevenEleven:yes, i did assume that those 2 could have being a teacher unless the cleaner drove to work or the cleaner come in executive style dressing.
Parents coming to meet teachers, suppliers of school materials, even contractors, come in to school before classes begins, cleaner would have to come to school earlier to make sure everything is clean before classes begin, and they come in smart casual attire then change for cleaning job. It is wrong to assume that anybody else who come in later than the students are teaching staff.
It makes sense for parents to come and meet the teachers just before the classes begin. It does not make sense for teachers to come at 7am when they lessons start at 10am, and then have to stay back till 7 pm to attend meetings.Originally posted by SevenEleven:nobody did, but to see that the students are lockout before school starts and the teachers are allowed in didn't make sense.
All are employees of MOE, but principals are overall in charge, teachers teach, discipline master take care of discipline. Blame whoever you like, but the proper channel is, talk to the discipline master or the vice principal, then the principal, ....you never learn from 2LT Li huh?Originally posted by SevenEleven:am i not right that, principals and teachers are adminstrators designated by MOE?
If you see that in polytechnic, go raise the issue with the polytechnic, you are stretching too far here.Originally posted by SevenEleven:i agree, but have you heard or seen some who gathered and smoke with their students in polythenics? no, i have not seen them but heard about it thru my son.
The classes start at 7.30 am, students may be required to come in earlier, and the check point is at the main gate. You better be entering the gate by 7.15am, or unless your classroom is just next to the main gate. We don't decide what time students should come in, the school does, and if these rest of the school can come in before that, why should the 15 of them be special, super white horse?Originally posted by SevenEleven:some time I ask, schol starts at 7.30am. you are late at 7.25am?
Are teachers subject to the same rules as the students? Obviously not.Originally posted by SevenEleven:yes, i agree that whoever is late is subjected to the rules. but if the top is not straight, the bottom is crook
but don't blame the teachers too soon, their lives are not easy. I will be happy if you start questioning the parents first!Originally posted by SevenEleven:no, it's just a thought that pop-up. -
teachers cannot be late oso
though they can enter the sch gate, when they step into the staff room still must punch card
so dun worry, they will be dealt with...
and dun have to jump into conclusions so fast. -
how do you know teachers are immune firstly and how can they be a bad example if these rules enforced on the studenst do not apply to the teachers?Originally posted by HyperFocal:.. the exhibition of Teachers being imune to any disciplinary rulings for being late, are examples bad enough... as is relevant to the thread's title "Double Standards" -
Well, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Teachers can be docked pay if they are late or AWOL. The reason why the punishment is not made so clear to the pupils and the public is that they still need to maintain some image of authority in order to do their jobs.
Also, in any case, just because the people in power or at the top are in the wrong doesn't mean you have the right to be in the wrong as well. So if the teachers are in the wrong it doesn't mean that the pupils are right to follow them as well. -
Maybe the TS should ask why his dad didnt practise safe sex,
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Dearest Mat Toro...Originally posted by Mat Toro:how do you know teachers are immune firstly and how can they be a bad example if these rules enforced on the studenst do not apply to the teachers?
please note my use of the term EXHIBIT / EXHIBITION... -
It's best not to draw too many conclusions from one senario.
If benefit of the doubt is given, these two 'latecomers' could very well be teachers on leave who were summoned back on a last-min basis by their principal - thus they have EVERY RIGHT to be 'late'.
They could also be teachers on afternoon classes coming in the morning; in that case, they are perfectly within their right to have the students open the gate.
Plenty of reasons exists to explain that situation. We should not be too eager to cry foul because of one incident.
Although i must say, a handful of students keeping out a group of 15 with a gate inbetween depicts a old-'skool' confrontation...all they need now is riot gear and a few molotov cocktails