hehee.. thanks for the pointer... I must be sitting to far back...Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:I have always maintained my respect for the Old Guard of ministers, and it seems they represented the old idealistic zeal of old that pervaded Singapore then.
Yet, 40 years later, this zeal has all but died. Perhaps the Old Guard should have been more public about the tantrums of LKY instead of staying silent about it.
BTW, you might want to delete the duplicate article.
Brought us all prosperity???Originally posted by Mat Toro:what exactly is this Loh trying to say? Govt's fault again for him not having any patriotism?
I remembered back in the 70s and even 80s where people do have patriotism. Thats when we had less prosperity and less history. Indonesians are very patriotic today, yet they are poor and their govt corrupt.
The difference today is, we have more history, more prosperity but people are more self centered. So who can Loh blame? The govt for bringing us prosperity?
You are very good at saying plenty without saying anything...Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:I was just about to say something caustic, but I realised Mat Toro's mental faculties is probably incapable of even understanding something too abstract and I should not blame him for being too stupid.
.... .. yeh by increasign living costs and the oppression as well.Originally posted by HyperFocal:I shall say that poeople still have soul... but the Spirit of Singaporeans is rather down-trodden by ever increasing living costs...
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. ~ Lord ActonWith years of stability has come years of complacency. Our 'manufacturing' of human resource automatons to fill the growing need based on govt directives, has slowly but surely proven more and more incapable of meeting the needs of the global demand. FTs are flooding our shores, less people are settling down, our dependency is rising steadily, and we are handing out citizenships like handouts for the needy.
Lions are known to be bold, and it reflected the vision of the original founder of Singapore - a Prince from Palembang named Sang Nila Utama - and had originally called this place "Temasek", which meant 'Sea Town'.Originally posted by HyperFocal:In search of the Singapore soul
Loh Chee Kong
It's right there staring us in the face — in our country's name. Maybe a certain Palembang prince in the 13th century got it spot on when he coined the name "Singapura" — "Lion City" in Sanskrit.
.
Be it against the British colonialists, the communists, the challenges that globalisation brings or a possible rogue government in the future, the Singapore soul — or the spirit of courage and wherewithal embodied by a lion, and fuelled by a deep sense of justice and the knowledge that nothing can be taken for granted — will always rise to the occasion.
.
Then again, it could be nothing more than just my youthful idealism.
Loh Chee Kong
Originally posted by Mat Toro:For every cent that Singaporeans get richer by, someone will take away two cents from our pockets.
We are definitely richer than we ever are and can afford much more and better.
But with this comes less partiotism and community spirit as people became more materialistic and individualistic.
Originally posted by Atobe:Proof please?
[b]
[color=darkred]For every cent that Singaporeans get richer by, someone will take away two cents from our pockets.
We have a better life, we have more wealth.
Yes, Singaporeans can afford much more and better but at WHAT PRICE ?
You think we are poorer than 10s thru 30s during the depression years? Really?
Yes, Singaporeans today are paid more than those generations since the 1950s, are we any richer as we get older compared to those generations before us - those born in the 1910s through 1930s ?
What is the comparative worth please.
What is the worth of the Singapore Currency today, compared to the 1950s ?
Wait a minute, you just said our dollar value is weaker didn't you? Now you say it is stronger. Aren't you contradicting yourself?
Singapore's Economic Tzar Dr Goh Keng Swee had implemented the economic theories of comparative advantage - to get Singapore to abandon Primary Production in animal husbandry and agricultural farming in favor of higher-value human endeavor so as to increase our wealth and purchase power.
What became of this theory when our neighbors continue to produce these products at lower costs for more then 40 years, but the same are not sold any cheaper despite the Singapore Dollar getting stronger by more then 2 times the value of the currencies of all our neighbors ?
Did any of our leaders tell us to be loyal to PAP?
Loyalty to the Nation, the President and the Government does not mean loyalty to the Politics of the Ruling Party - its political cronies and its appointees.
We may recognise and pledge loyalty to the Public Institutions but we do not have to be loyal to the political persons in office.
human nature.
Who do you think has caused this Singapore culture of Materialism ?
don't anybody do that? you call that arrogance. I think you are more arrogant yourself to think you know what bis best for Singaporeans.
Who has been in power for more then 40 years and has the arrogance to think and decide whatever is best for Singapore; what and how Singaporeans should live in this Globalised World ?
is it wrong to aim for better life?
Who was the political personaility who decide on gearing Singaporeans towards a SWISS Standard of Living ?
individualistism can exists w/o elitism.
Can ELITISM exist without Individualism ?
Wrong. We can be the best w/o being individualistic.
Are Singaporeans to be blamed for this individualistic traits in an ''Elitist Rat Race'' environment to be ''The Best Amongst the BEST'' ?
In here, people tend be more ambitious over five C. I agreed on ur point with regards on matter in Indonesia. The present president is trying his best toOriginally posted by Mat Toro:what exactly is this Loh trying to say? Govt's fault again for him not having any patriotism?
I remembered back in the 70s and even 80s where people do have patriotism. Thats when we had less prosperity and less history. Indonesians are very patriotic today, yet they are poor and their govt corrupt.
The difference today is, we have more history, more prosperity but people are more self centered. So who can Loh blame? The govt for bringing us prosperity?
The problem with a mental handicap is that can you even know how to spot the proof when presented, let alone to digest it and interprete it - and we have confirmed your status through your continuous superb display.Originally posted by Mat Toro:
Originally posted by Atobe:
For every cent that Singaporeans get richer by, someone will take away two cents from our pockets.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof please?
If what you said is true, how can singaporeans be richer over the years?
Your maths just don't add up.
What constitute a better life for you ?
Yes, Singaporeans can afford much more and better but at WHAT PRICE ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have a better life, we have more wealth.
What price exactly are you talking about?
Those born in the 1910s through 1930s were between one month old to twenty years old when the depression had largely affected the mature economies of Europe and USA.
Yes, Singaporeans today are paid more than those generations since the 1950s, are we any richer as we get older compared to those generations before us - those born in the 1910s through 1930s ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You think we are poorer than 10s thru 30s during the depression years? Really?
Be a good Mat, and go find out for yourself how much a SINGLE Cent could buy in the 1950s, compared to what TEN cent can buy today.
What is the worth of the Singapore Currency today, compared to the 1950s ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the comparative worth please.
Mat, will you ever attempt to improve yourself to being a simple ''straw mat'' and become at least a cheap ''carpet'' ?
Singapore's Economic Tzar Dr Goh Keng Swee had implemented the economic theories of comparative advantage - to get Singapore to abandon Primary Production in animal husbandry and agricultural farming in favor of higher-value human endeavor so as to increase our wealth and purchase power.
What became of this theory when our neighbors continue to produce these products at lower costs for more then 40 years, but the same are not sold any cheaper despite the Singapore Dollar getting stronger by more then 2 times the value of the currencies of all our neighbors ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wait a minute, you just said our dollar value is weaker didn't you? Now you say it is stronger. Aren't you contradicting yourself?
Who crafted the Singapore Pledge ?
Loyalty to the Nation, the President and the Government does not mean loyalty to the Politics of the Ruling Party - its political cronies and its appointees.
We may recognise and pledge loyalty to the Public Institutions but we do not have to be loyal to the political persons in office.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did any of our leaders tell us to be loyal to PAP?
What are you talking about?
Are you still lying on your Mat ? Try thinking deeper as to why it is the human nature to respond and become materialistic ?
Who do you think has caused this Singapore culture of Materialism ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
human nature.
You are still lying on your Mat.
Who has been in power for more then 40 years and has the arrogance to think and decide whatever is best for Singapore; what and how Singaporeans should live in this Globalised World ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
don't anybody do that? you call that arrogance. I think you are more arrogant yourself to think you know what bis best for Singaporeans.
The problem with your question is that it is not directed at the idea in the text of my post.
Who was the political personaility who decide on gearing Singaporeans towards a SWISS Standard of Living ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is it wrong to aim for better life?
Would you care to substantiate your statement made with such bravado, or should we accept your handicap mind as it is - with no hope from the known spastic state ?
Can ELITISM exist without Individualism ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
individualistism can exists w/o elitism.
How did you so cleverly conclude from my text that I have equated ''individualism automatically to excellence'' ?
Are Singaporeans to be blamed for this individualistic traits in an ''Elitist Rat Race'' environment to be ''The Best Amongst the BEST'' ?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong. We can be the best w/o being individualistic.
UIf you do equate individualism autiomatically to excellence, then you are saying it is wrong for govt to want better life for singaporeans. You realise how ridiculous you are?
richer in what sense?Originally posted by Mat Toro:We are definitely richer than we ever are and can afford much more and better.
But with this comes less partiotism and community spirit as people became more materialistic and individualistic.
Originally posted by Atobe:if all you do is to start off with insults and refuse to answer directly or reason, it just shows that you cannot compete in the arena of ideas and is intolerant of diverse views.
The problem with a mental handicap - which we have confirmed by your continuous superb display at being a spastic - is that can you even know how to spot the proof when presented, let alone to digest it and interprete it ?
You claim we are poorer today compared to the past, on what basis are you talking about?
If my maths do not add up, surely the Government concern with that more of the Singaporean aged not being able to support themselves should be telling ?
it seems you are running away from logic once you are challenged.
Do you know how to look for proof ? Or are you surely accepting to be a handicap and need to be spoon fed continuously ?
More wealth would be a great indicator and we are definitely more wealthy than we were. We were never as wealthy as we are today.
What constitute a better life for you ?
Is it the govt's job to take care of us from cradle to grave? You want a welfare state? You want the govt to tax the young heavily to feed the retired? How would you like an income tax of 50% like in Australia? You think that gives you wealth?
What more wealth do you have that will last you through your old age ?
Did the ruling party increase wage by 33% and restrict wages to 3% increase? I don't think so. This is a free market, wages increases are determined by employers my fren.
If you are part of the Elitist from the Ruling Party, of course you have more wealth than any Singaporeans from 'the Heartlands' when you can proclaim your wage increases of 33% to Mega-Millions, while restricting our wage increases to 3% to miserly extra hundreds.
The great depression did spill over and affected SE Asia because we trade a lot with the west. Didn't you know?
Those born in the 1910s through 1930s were between one month old to twenty years old, and the depression had largely affected the mature economies of Europe and USA.
Yes it did. Very much so.
Did it affect Asia ?
What rubbish. Colonisation happened mostly in the 18oos, not 1900s. I suggest you read more history than you play X box.
That depression caused the European powers to be even more aggressive in their land grabbing of China, Africa and the Latin Americas. It resulted in mass migration of the Europeans to new territories in Australia, Africa, and Asia.
Be a good atobe and count how many cents we had back then.
Be a good Mat, and go find out for yourself how much a SINGLE Cent could buy in the 1950s, compared to what TEN cent can buy today.
how many censt do you have in your pocket? You can't be richier than me thats for sure.
I may pay you in CENTS if you get your senses right.
OK, give us a source and we'll compare shall we?
Read carefully the difference between the worth of our Singapore Currency today with the Singapore Currency of the 1950s.
Read carefully the statement between the Singapore Currency today and the Currencies of our neighboring countries.
Did our pledge tell us to be loyal to the govt?
Who crafted the Singapore Pledge ?
You mean the votes don't represent the people?
Who are the persons appointed to be President, and the Political Party that formed the Government through an electoral system that do is not representative of the majority of Singaporeans ?
Did you oversleep lying on the Mat, and missed the speeches made by the various Ruling Elites - who believe that the Government is symbiotically and genetically linked to their Party perpetually ?
PAP didn't create human nature. Its nature.
Are you still lying on your Mat ? Try thinking deeper as to why it is the human nature to respond and become materialistic ?
Not every singaporean. I don't have debt on my house. So do many people I know.Originally posted by iLuVpOrKyPiG:richer in what sense?
every singaporean who owns a car or flat is in debt!!!!
if you lose your livelihood you lose all you have.