How inflential is MM Lee with other leaders in the region?
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In Sun Tse Art of War, there is a common belief that “to know oneself as well as one’s enemy will allow one to win a hundred victories”
Does MM Lee know himself as well as others to have the extra shrewdness to understand his own weakness - easily carried away by his own over-confident pet theories - to the extent of missing out on governing for the greatest good of the greatest number.
If he has that extra ability or empathy to understand others then he would have been a great leader. So far it appears like he is only self-conscious of his own need to succeed and look good whether in dealing with people or understanding their needs and desire or handling of statecraft or foreign affairs. He is only a self-believer at the best.
Because of his legal training he has been able to push through all the fallacious policies by sheer political muscle to wrangle through laws like GRC election process or ministersÂ’ benchmarking of salary to a few lucky CEOs in the private sector and get away with fall-outs and objections from the people until NKF problems starting to hit back at him on rare occasions due to combination of circumstances like change of premiership etc.
Apart from his legalistic wrangling he has not quite convinced thinking persons on any of his own pet theories imposed on the electorate from GRC or using of civil libel suits to undermine his own political opponents. Try to impose his ministersÂ’ salary benchmarking on Badawi, he instantly got the rebuff. Try to teach Mahathir to be more multi-racial he got all the short ends of the bargains.
In in reality, he could not influence much outside the little red dot despite all the seeming reputation or rhetorics.
Does he convince any foremost western journalists or thinkers of his justification or excuse to clamp-down on political or press freedoms as something desirable even for a small red dot.
The answer is quite clear - his rhetoric or legalistic wrangling does not work outside the little red dot.
Whenever he tries to same rhetorics with any external parties from Taiwan Li Ao to suzhou local authority to Indonesian journalists he would be soundly rebuffed one time after another with his own local press doing damage control mostly making it look less bad.
Therefore he has not demonstrated any special convincing logics or abilities apart from legalistic wrangling to override all fallouts or objections caused to the people.
If he does not understand others as well as himself and understand only himself then he will eventually be exposed by more objective thinkers and powers of his own weaknesses in his own backyard. -
if MM Lee isn't influential, they would have just ignored him.
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When I was in New Zeland doing my degree, I've often overheard positive comments on LKY from my lecturers. Most of these comments were not part of a conversation with me, but discussions among academics which I have accidentally overheard. Most of my lecturers think I was a China national anyway and thus these comments were not likely to be courtesy shown towards a Singaporean.
With regards to Suzhou, my mum and grandma had just came back from a trip there and according to them, the Suzhou people respected LKY a lot. Not because of the wealth that LKY had brought to them tru the industrial park, but because they believed that he is a great leader and that Singapore is fortunate to have him (Now this could be a courtesy comment as my mum and grandma went over as tourists and these were the words that my mum told me, one of the few rare occasion where I actually heard her saying something positive about LKY). -
In the context of my post (in reply to an article on uproar in Indonesia to MM Lee's remark about the Indonesia's politics posted in theonlinecitizen) influential should be taken to refer to the ability to convince other leaders in the region of MM Lee's own way of running Singapore or how a country should be governed.Originally posted by wisefool83:When I was in New Zeland doing my degree, I've often overheard positive comments on LKY from my lecturers. Most of these comments were not part of a conversation with me, but discussions among academics which I have accidentally overheard. Most of my lecturers think I was a China national anyway and thus these comments were not likely to be courtesy shown towards a Singaporean.
With regards to Suzhou, my mum and grandma had just came back from a trip there and according to them, the Suzhou people respected LKY a lot. Not because of the wealth that LKY had brought to them tru the industrial park, but because they believed that he is a great leader and that Singapore is fortunate to have him (Now this could be a courtesy comment as my mum and grandma went over as tourists and these were the words that my mum told me, one of the few rare occasion where I actually heard her saying something positive about LKY). -
So I presume you must be the most influential bloke in this forum since you're the one who's least ignored?Originally posted by Mat Toro:if MM Lee isn't influential, they would have just ignored him.
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Originally posted by walesa:So I presume you must be the most influential bloke in this forum since you're the one who's least ignored?
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not say most influential lah, more like what shall we say, just quite influential only.Originally posted by walesa:So I presume you must be the most influential bloke in this forum since you're the one who's least ignored?
my arguments are so reasonable and logical. -
MM Lee is a great leader and well respected by many people all over Asia.Originally posted by wisefool83:When I was in New Zeland doing my degree, I've often overheard positive comments on LKY from my lecturers. Most of these comments were not part of a conversation with me, but discussions among academics which I have accidentally overheard. Most of my lecturers think I was a China national anyway and thus these comments were not likely to be courtesy shown towards a Singaporean.
With regards to Suzhou, my mum and grandma had just came back from a trip there and according to them, the Suzhou people respected LKY a lot. Not because of the wealth that LKY had brought to them tru the industrial park, but because they believed that he is a great leader and that Singapore is fortunate to have him (Now this could be a courtesy comment as my mum and grandma went over as tourists and these were the words that my mum told me, one of the few rare occasion where I actually heard her saying something positive about LKY).
Mahathir once said anoyingly that when Lee said something, the rest of the Asean leaders take note, jump in and follow.
Those politicians in Indonesia are just jealous of him, just like mahathir. -
Originally posted by Mat Toro:not say most influential lah, more like what shall we say, just quite influential only.
my arguments are so reasonable and logical. -
I'm sure tonnes of people in these forums must be jealous of you then.Originally posted by Mat Toro:MM Lee is a great leader and well respected by many people all over Asia.
Mahathir once said anoyingly that when Lee said something, the rest of the Asean leaders take note, jump in and follow.
Those politicians in Indonesia are just jealous of him, just like mahathir.
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yes indeed they are, including you walesa.
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Hahaha.....
Pure entertainment!!! -
Did you remember to take your medication today?????Originally posted by Mat Toro:not say most influential lah, more like what shall we say, just quite influential only.
my arguments are so reasonable and logical.
You should take your medication on time, else you will start having delusions again.
Take good care of your health. -
Stop taking drugs boy! you'll die young babe.Originally posted by maurizio13:Did you remember to take your medication today?????
You should take your medication on time, else you will start having delusions again.
Take good care of your health. -
They too read too much propaganda that Lee built Singapore. They have not heard of Goh Keng Swee.Originally posted by wisefool83:When I was in New Zeland doing my degree, I've often overheard positive comments on LKY from my lecturers. Most of these comments were not part of a conversation with me, but discussions among academics which I have accidentally overheard. Most of my lecturers think I was a China national anyway and thus these comments were not likely to be courtesy shown towards a Singaporean.
With regards to Suzhou, my mum and grandma had just came back from a trip there and according to them, the Suzhou people respected LKY a lot. Not because of the wealth that LKY had brought to them tru the industrial park, but because they believed that he is a great leader and that Singapore is fortunate to have him (Now this could be a courtesy comment as my mum and grandma went over as tourists and these were the words that my mum told me, one of the few rare occasion where I actually heard her saying something positive about LKY).
When it comes to giving credit to Goh Keng Swee, the state times tries to play down his contribution. In the coverage of his memoirs, his contribution to the economy was a small liner hidden at the bottom. Even as defense minister, they tried to emphasize Israelis built Singapore army.
When i meet foreigners, i would tell them LKY is overated and has taken credit away from many people.
Well some words from an old guard Lim Kim Sam can give a closer picture to the truth.http://www.singapore-window.org/sw01/011016bl.htm
cropper i.e.
But bottom line, what does Lim really think of his old mate, Lee Kuan Yew? Some whisper that Lim, like other "old guard" leaders Toh Chin Chye, Ong Pang Boon, Jek Yeun Thong and Devan Nair, is sour toward Lee for the way he always insisted on being No. 1. The talk goes that Lee was lucky to catapult straight into the premiership since it suited his talent for oratory, vision, and strategic thinking. Had he needed to deal with the nuts and bolts of running a specific ministry, he might have come a cropper. If Lim shares this view, he keeps it to himself. Publicly, he says that without Lee's leadership, Singapore "would probably be like a third-world country now."
to fail badly -
the achievements of LKY is actually underated.
I have been told by foreigners many times that they wish LKY ran their country. -
But i guess they would think twice after hearing Lim Kim San's cropper comment.Originally posted by Mat Toro:the achievements of LKY is actually underated.
I have been told by foreigners many times that they wish LKY ran their country. -
Definitely much more than you ever give him credit for!
Now will TS get off the honourable MM Lee's back and get a bu-lard-dee life?!!
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there are all kinds of comments but all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons.
but you can't argue with results n LKY delivered. -
That I agree. According to my grand auntie, she once slapped LKY over something similar, of course he wasn't PM then and PAP was only an opposition.Originally posted by kilua:cropper i.e.
to fail badly -
you are absolutely right, when Mat says something, he gets all the attention from you know who. I think the other one is Gazalle, when he posts, many will respond.Originally posted by walesa:So I presume you must be the most influential bloke in this forum since you're the one who's least ignored? -
heeheehOriginally posted by Mat Toro:the achievements of LKY is actually underated.
I have been told by foreigners many times that they wish LKY ran their country. ee...
Of course they wished LKY ran their country...
They will then be able to see how effective he is handling a larger country than puny SG...!! -
The statement on "governing for the greatest good" has an assumption that the person wants/chooses to govern for the public and not himself. This cannot be proven or disproved. Hence, I would avoid making such statements about personal characteristics.
Singapore Marketing Success
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Singapore has great PR therefore the good image of our police, govt, and of course well paid ministers. Therefore many foreigners who do not know the reality, fed with this controlled media will think Singapore is well run, with good leaders and etc.
The Greener Grass Symdrom
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Singapore will always be envied by others because of the new buildings and advances. People always think the grass is greener on the other side. But why do so many Singaporean leave. Because all these things we have, are substance without form. Cause deep down we know, its just a shiny shell with nothing inside.. -
someone is delusional.Originally posted by walesa:I'm sure tonnes of people in these forums must be jealous of you then. -
http://www.citigroup.com/citigroup/press/2006/060905c.htm
SingaporeÂ’s Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew Appointed Special Advisor to Citigroup
New York – Citigroup Inc. today announced that Singapore’s Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew has agreed to be its Special Advisor. In this role, Minister Mentor Lee will advise Citigroup on its strategic directions and global business. Minister Mentor Lee will provide counsel to Citigroup’s senior management and its Board on international developments that impact on economies and businesses globally.
Commenting on this appointment, Citigroup’s Chairman and CEO Charles Prince said, “Minister Mentor Lee is a modern-day visionary and a unique statesman who is respected world-wide, and it is a privilege for Citigroup to benefit from his understanding, insights and experience. I am honored that Minister Mentor Lee has chosen to be a special advisor to Citigroup and look forward to having the opportunity to work closely with him as we pursue our international growth strategy.”
Minister Mentor Lee is widely recognized as the architect of modern Singapore having transformed the island state from a small trading port into a city state that takes its place amongst the developed countries of the world. He led Singapore as its first Prime Minister from 1965 to 1990 developing the nationÂ’s constitutional system, governing institutions and the economic and political strategies that have propelled the nation into the international arena. In 1990, Mr. Lee was appointed Senior Minister and in 2004, he became Minister Mentor to the Singapore government.
Citigroup has been in Singapore since 1902. The franchise plays a significant role in the financial infrastructure of Singapore and is involved in every business line and client category in financial services. Singapore is a key centre of excellence in Asia and a strategic hub for CitigroupÂ’s regional management, marketing, operations and technology expertise.