"There are NO Destitutes in Singapore..."
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That's not our point here, isn't it?Originally posted by Gazelle:Havent you read those stories about fake monks begging for money in the day and sleeping with call girls at night? Plus, some of these beggars are actually run by syndicate and chinese temple is one of their favourite spot.
btw, where's mat toro? -
..oh he's probably submitting all his reports to the MIWs after a week of One Lining us in here...Originally posted by eagle:That's not our point here, isn't it?
btw, where's mat toro?
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I won't try to compare the amount of destitutes in other countries for the single fact that those countries never made the claim that they eliminate poverty. I do believe there was a quote from our MM Lee stating it was so.
I'm not a PAP or LKY hater, in fact i do agree with the logic for most of the laws they have made and you can't argue the fact that they have helped Singapore grow.
My issue is that most of these destitutes i see are the elderly who had to make a living through collecting card board boxes and used can drinks. Have they not contribute towards Singapore's prosperity during their youth in their own way?
Surely something can be done to help them, it's simply not right to see old people who are 60-70 years old having to make a living digging into trash cans and dragging large piles of cardboard around.
If our ministers insist on being the highest paid in the entire world, then i insist they must do more than their counterparts from other countries. Simply accepting that poverty and the homeless is a worldwide issue and not worth the effort to solve locally means they are undeserving of the salary given to them.
Why should we be made to pay 2 mil for a minister that is doing no different from his New York/Paris/London counterparts? -
The government (all, MIW or oppositions) failed thoroughly in humanity. We look at an average person's economic values at age 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90.Originally posted by Stevenson101:My issue is that most of these destitutes i see are the elderly who had to make a living through collecting card board boxes and used can drinks. Have they not contribute towards Singapore's prosperity during their youth in their own way?
In Singapore, some are old, slow, weak and no livelihood. In other developed countries, many have social aids to fall back on, and may have lands, or a system that lower their costs of living.
Stupid leaders follow their heart's conviction;Surely something can be done to help them, it's simply not right to see old people who are 60-70 years old having to make a living digging into trash cans and dragging large piles of cardboard around.
Wise leaders follow conviction that comes from empathy.
(Remember so often we hear leader says, "the majority would disagree, but leadership is about personal conviction).
A day living together with a soldier dying at Iraq will tell me invading iraq is wrong. A day living together with the elderly picking cans and cardboards will tell me this system is not right. I know, my conviction tells me, BECOS time passes very slow for these people, and experiencing their lives tell me so.
Personal convictions from the hearts are WORTHLESS. Convictions from empathy is GOLD.
Reminds me of Crime and Punishment book/movie. Great Men who send troops to war, or Great Leaders who do nothing and let commoners live day by day in this way, have no sins.
Everything good thing comes first to top, and then last to bottom. When deeds need to be done from the bottom, only the bottom help the bottom.If our ministers insist on being the highest paid in the entire world, then i insist they must do more than their counterparts from other countries. Simply accepting that poverty and the homeless is a worldwide issue and not worth the effort to solve locally means they are undeserving of the salary given to them.
ST on Thursday reported France PM making S$160,000 per year. Pay high for what ? Follow the conviction from their hearts ?Why should we be made to pay 2 mil for a minister that is doing no different from his New York/Paris/London counterparts?
Each time after i watched local TV self-trumpeting news, i just could not continue to restrain and start criticizing here. I think i must start picking cans and cardboards to raise the happiness of these elderly living. Ask not what others can do for the island, but what i can do for them. -
End World Homelessness & need to beg..... Mmm..... No, of course not. Just like we will not see the end of War & Crime. Does it means we should give up peace and law enforcementOriginally posted by Gazelle:Honestly to you think it is possible for any country in this world to not have beggars and homeless?
Reason for asking is because some people beg is not because they cant find a job or physically disable, but the just prefer to make money that way. While there are also those who are mentally unsound or people who ruin they own life because of drugs, gambling, broken family etc. While some might not be even Singaporeans.
It might be better for the society to get a better unstanding of the profile of these people before suggesting that our government is not doing enough.
I agree that some people chose the 'easy' way out from hard work..... but you sure every Homeless or Beggar in S'pore is doing it EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM 
You mean it is not worth while to help.... maybe 50% of them that isn't chosing the 'easy' way
For the recored..... I didn't blame the Govt for not doing enough. I'm unhappy they are not doing MORE..... If your child score 60 points for his test..... won't you want him/her to score better next time The Govt have try to help the destitute in S'pore, this I agree. But I also wants them to do more & better..... is that wrong -
Originally posted by hloc:
The Gov and proPAP will ask you, why must Gov help ? why can't the People help ?
[b]For the recored..... I didn't blame the Govt for not doing enough. I'm unhappy they are not doing MORE..... If your child score 60 points for his test..... won't you want him/her to score better next time The Govt have try to help the destitute in S'pore, this I agree. But I also wants them to do more & better..... is that wrong [/b] -
If governemt doesn't help, then I wonder what's the use of having one. We might be better off having the rule of the jungle, saves alot on manpower cost and ministerial salaries.Originally posted by lotiman:The Gov and proPAP will ask you, why must Gov help ? why can't the People help ? -
Originally posted by maurizio13:If governemt doesn't help, then I wonder what's the use of having one. We might be better off having the rule of the jungle, saves alot on manpower cost and ministerial salaries.
Now, the Gov has another new option, ie. to HELP, or not to HELP. You people decide. -
The govt do help, you sure didn't.Originally posted by maurizio13:If governemt doesn't help, then I wonder what's the use of having one. We might be better off having the rule of the jungle, saves alot on manpower cost and ministerial salaries. -
Lemme ask; if we pay someone to do a job for us, and we have to end up helping the hired person do the job, what are we paying for?Originally posted by maurizio13:If governemt doesn't help, then I wonder what's the use of having one. We might be better off having the rule of the jungle, saves alot on manpower cost and ministerial salaries. -
INCOMPETENCE!!!!Originally posted by HyperFocal:Lemme ask; if we pay someone to do a job for us, and we have to end up helping the hired person do the job, what are we paying for?
Hehehe..... -
and then, on top of it, the hired person has the cheek to demand higher pay or he says he may become corrupted... !!Originally posted by maurizio13:INCOMPETENCE!!!!
Hehehe.....
Do you think you want to continure hiring such a person?? -
Most incompetent people will succumb to temptation of corruption.Originally posted by HyperFocal:and then, on top of it, the hired person has the cheek to demand higher pay or he says he may become corrupted... !!
Do you think you want to continure hiring such a person?? -
That's all you can say? I'm waiting for you to reply my post before I find even more things to talk about...Originally posted by Mat Toro:The govt do help, you sure didn't.
The govt do help, but you sure enough? Our ministers are among the highest paid in the world, and this is all they can do? -
The same thing I was talking about. I'm sure the Govt did help the poor in S'pore...... BUT is the help enoughOriginally posted by eagle:That's all you can say? I'm waiting for you to reply my post before I find even more things to talk about...
The govt do help, but you sure enough? Our ministers are among the highest paid in the world, and this is all they can do? Things are getting more expensive in S'pore every year...... is the 'help' from the Govt increase as well Or is it the same amount for the last 10yrs -
sg so small why nid so many ppl manage? iirc london, new york, paris, tokyo only 1 mayor manage right? we need so many ppl n each person get multi-millions salaries...becomes 100's of millions more than whatever the NYC mayor is getting.
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Originally posted by hloc:
If we still wait for Gov to help, it's like jumping into the hole of a grave we have dug for ourselves.
The govt do help, but you sure enough? Our ministers are among the highest paid in the world, and this is all they can do?
The same thing I was talking about. [b]I'm sure the Govt did help the poor in S'pore...... BUT is the help enough Things are getting more expensive in S'pore every year...... is the 'help' from the Govt increase as well Or is it the same amount for the last 10yrs [/b]
The Gov (MIW or oppositions) practises "wave" leadership (but others prefer to call it "toxic" leadership). You got to go along with me, to get the benefits that you need.
You like to write your disagreements againsts Gov (MIW or oppositions). But you WILL be SWEPT into the BIG WAVE and be like others. Everyone will go along the wind to get the benefits.
The like, dislike, help or not-help, vote for or against, or the TV media, hiring them or paying them highest salary, or increase GST to help the poor - ALL THESE are just the human side of describnig "THE GOV".
But in reality, "THE GOV" is just a non-alive entity, or a giant machine/computer, that CAN ONLY decipher good economical ideas.
If People decide to help themselves, they must really try to help, and not go into politics or go against the machine/computer.
If People wait for the machine/computer to help, it will be a wrong move by the People. But still, a move taken by the people from their free choice. And the Gov will have a new option: to help now, or not to help. (just like to upgrade or not to upgrade the HDB)
Lotiman
i write here just for educating purpose. So if i am argumenative (just like 'Mat Toro') it is just a debate. -
har???Originally posted by lotiman:If we still wait for Gov to help, it's like jumping into the hole of a grave we have dug for ourselves.
The Gov (MIW or oppositions) practises "wave" leadership (but others prefer to call it "toxic" leadership). You got to go along with me, to get the benefits that you need.
You like to write your disagreements againsts Gov (MIW or oppositions). But you WILL be SWEPT into the BIG WAVE and be like others. Everyone will go along the wind to get the benefits.
The like, dislike, help or not-help, vote for or against, or the TV media, or increase GST to help the poor - ALL THESE are just the human side of describnig "THE GOV".
But in reality, "THE GOV" is just a non-alive entity, or a giant machine/computer, that CAN ONLY decipher good economical ideas.
If People decide to help themselves, they must really try to help, and not go into politics or go against the machine/computer.
If People wait for the machine/computer to help, it will be a wrong move by the People. But still, a move taken by the people from their a free choice.
Lotiman
i write here just for educating purpose. So if i am argumenative (just like 'Mat Toro') it is just a debate. -
Whether you pay them highest salary, or don't feel like paying them, like them or dislike them, voted for them or will not vote for them - the SG-FRAMEWORK is not a live entity, it is a dead entity, a giant computer/machine that only decipher codes.Originally posted by Stoat:har???
Whether you feel like or don't feel like, things will still happen, the machine/computer will still run the same way, it is not a human, it is a machine.
This machine only decipher good economical ideas, ideas that help yourselves and help itself.
Or it is the SG-FRAMEWORK, the GOV has nothing to do with the SG-FRAMEWORK.
If you wait for the SG-FRAMEWORK to help the people, it will gobble up all the nutrients of the economy, and the leftover trickles slowerly down to the poor. If this goes on for a long-term, the waves and waves of influence will intoxicate its own people.
And the SG-FRAMEWORK entrenches itself to supply and run the basic essential things and services, and corporatised and privatised, and now ony profit matters, and more profits everyyear.
The interesting thing about the SG-FRAMEWORK is it has a human-side, and many people is blurred by it, and cannot see it clearly (as clear as mirror) that it is actually just a giant machine/computer.
If you decide not to let SG-FRAMEWORK to help people/yourself, you MUST really help, something that pleases the machine but is helping the people. And not be political, if not the machine cannot understand you. -
I would agree that GOV = incumbent + OPPOSITION. Anything less is not GOV.
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Well said... but meaningless......Originally posted by lotiman:If we still wait for Gov to help, it's like jumping into the hole of a grave we have dug for ourselves.
Unless you are telling me, u planned to 'donate' everything you have to help the poor.... then what you just said is mainly ''Good to hear''.
And I sure the poor old auntie collection tin cans would feel SOOOO much better.... waiting for you to help yourself... -
Don't need to compare your posts with Mat Toro...Originally posted by lotiman:i write here just for educating purpose. So if i am argumenative (just like 'Mat Toro') it is just a debate.
Let me summarize your arguments: SG govt is a machine that is capable of following the 'books'? It is dead; it has no life, because it does not feel for the people? -
Mr Mat Toro claims to participate in MCYS social work. When I asked him to name the locations of these shelters, he evades.Originally posted by eagle:That's all you can say? I'm waiting for you to reply my post before I find even more things to talk about...
The govt do help, but you sure enough? Our ministers are among the highest paid in the world, and this is all they can do?
When it comes to talk c0ck sing song play mahjong, no one does it better. Second to none. -
Maybe to do the compulsory 6 community service hours?Originally posted by Rock^Star:Mr Mat Toro claims to participate in MCYS social work. When I asked him to name the locations of these shelters, he evades. -
I wonder if Mr Mat Toro is helping Spore in his manner?Originally posted by Rock^Star:Mr Mat Toro claims to participate in MCYS social work. When I asked him to name the locations of these shelters, he evades.
When it comes to talk c0ck sing song play mahjong, no one does it better. Second to none.