Pay lawyers more to keep them: Chief Justice
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Pay lawyers more to keep them: Chief Justice
Aiyah, why need something so complicated as higher pay to keep new lawyers?
Date : 18 August 2007 2259 hrs (SST)
SINGAPORE: More young lawyers are switching careers, citing long hours, unrewarding pay and stress as reasons.
This causes a shortage of lawyers, and as the economy booms and the demand for law services goes up, the problem is becoming more acute.
How to address this problem?
"Pay them well," said Chief Justice Chan Sek Keong, in his address to law students at the inaugural Singapore Legal Forum on Saturday.
"Our young lawyers enjoy a degree of professional and social freedom and mobility which lawyers of my generation have never experienced. Perhaps the solution is in the old fashion but still fashionable way of using carrots without the stick since the latter doesn't work. Pay them well. Greed works most of the time, even for the large majority of people in affluent societies," he said.
In recent years, even the best-paying firms in Singapore are seeing their young lawyers jumping ship to Hong Kong, where salaries for junior lawyers start at about S$11,650 a month.
In contrast, the big firms in Singapore pay junior lawyers just over $4,000.
A second law school has been established at the Singapore Management University.
Also, the NUS Law Faculty has increased its intake and firms are now allowed to hire foreign lawyers.
But the shortage has not eased yet.
Do the tried and tested method we already use for our DOCTORS!
Just increase the NUS school fees to $120,000 per year, and BOND THOSE LAWYERS for 5 years la!
It works for doctors, don't see why it won't work for lawyers.
Still not enough lawyers?
Nevermind lah! Just allow law firms to hire foreign talent.
After all, which HK lawyer will be able to resist coming here where he can earn $4000 a month??
Worse come to worse just outsource to India or China lor!
Already doing that for the doctors what.
But after that kena lead-poisoning don't say I never say.... -
You obviously did not read that article did you?Originally posted by gerald_tan:After all, which HK lawyer will be able to resist coming here where he can earn $4000 a month?? -
If the demand for lawyers exceed supply, the long term solution is to increase the number of law graduates. Today, NUS restricts its law intake to 250+ each year. We can easily double or triple this, since the law faculty is small compared to other faculties.
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how? omg legal fees going up liao
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Originally posted by gerald_tan:
In any organization there are those who are underpaid and those who may be overpaid or grossly overpaid when it comes to comparison of pay with people outside.
Aiyah, why need something so complicated as higher pay to keep new lawyers?
Do the tried and tested method we already use for our DOCTORS!
Just increase the NUS school fees to $120,000 per year, and BOND THOSE LAWYERS for 5 years la!
It works for doctors, don't see why it won't work for lawyers.
Still not enough lawyers?
Nevermind lah! Just allow law firms to hire [b]foreign talent.
After all, which HK lawyer will be able to resist coming here where he can earn $4000 a month??
Worse come to worse just outsource to India or China lor!
Already doing that for the doctors what.
But after that kena lead-poisoning don't say I never say....[/b]
So if ministers or the lawyers in the legal service want comparison on pay, there is a need to be objective and make comparison across the board and not just those who are said to be underpaid when compared with the private sector who may be paid higher for diverse reasons which are not apple to apple comparison.
Let the lawyers in the legal service who are already well paid or overpaid understand that they are unable to get similar pays outside if they are to leave service.
Let all including ministers be realistic about such fact of life and not keep trying to increase their own pays without proper perspective. -
Now where does that line sound so familiar?
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can we stand when china people speak english....
this is some thing china people cannot do... lucky siah -
sounds like the Prime Minister telling people to pay the ministers more in order to keep them
thing is, if we caught it on a hook, we'd dash its brains in then throw it back -
funny leh... why they dun say that about factory worker, construction worker and cleaner one?? pay them more to keep them lor.. why outsource??
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not eliteOriginally posted by I-like-flings(m):funny leh... why they dun say that about factory worker, construction worker and cleaner one?? pay them more to keep them lor.. why outsource??
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nabei.. i think i need to name my son Elite Goh already lah...Originally posted by the Bear:not elite
just switching to CNA... that guy really can crap leh...really dun understand wat those 66.6% was thinking previously... sighz... i am really losing my hope on singapore........
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if everyone is like you, cannot differentiate between the MIW and the country, then the country really is doomed
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living in s'pore still got hope meh...
i long ago already give up hope liao... -
continued ur dream lor...u should know what i mean....MIW and country? ... forget it.......... like i said... losing my hope...... day by day.........Originally posted by the Bear:if everyone is like you, cannot differentiate between the MIW and the country, then the country really is doomed -
Contradicting huh!! Didn't the gahman say they can earn more outside instead of joining politic. Why outside pay so low? Didn't they say economy is improving?
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This is not the first time people are disagreeing with what PM and MM Lee were telling the citizens that comparable jobs in the private sector are paying more than those within the government and civil service.Originally posted by sunnytv:Contradicting huh!! Didn't the gahman say they can earn more outside instead of joining politic. Why outside pay so low? Didn't they say economy is improving?
In fact if people are to conduct an independent survey it will be found for sure that equivalent jobs outside the government are paid much lower salaries than those in the government or civil service including the many layers of promotional posts to reward those within the government. A property manager with vast professional practical experiences outside is paid only S$3,500-$5,000 pm while a principal estate officer is getting more than $15,000.00 pm for paper work and following instructions from head office.
Experienced litigation lawyer could hardly earn $100,000.00 pm as those earned by the judicial commissioners who did not even have experiences with litigations.
A specialist gynae doctor did not get as much as S$20,000.00 pm earned by specialist consultant in the government hospital.
If a salary survey is to be conducted by an independent agency, based on objective apple-to-apple criteria it will be found that similar jobs in government from teacher to nurse to doctor and lawyer within the government are always paid more - in fact much more than counter-part in the private sector.
Will the government refund the over-payment of salaries to ministers received over the years due to wrongful or dishonest benchmarking like being done for the ministers recently which were already widely exposed as fraudulent by the people just like NKF. -
maybe we should all stop working. then they will pay us more to keep us.
fat hope......
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They lawyers didnt stop working, they are just attracted to work for someone who can offer a higher salary. I am sure if you are capable and your skills are in demand, you could ask for a pay rise too. no?Originally posted by dragg:maybe we should all stop working. then they will pay us more to keep us.
fat hope...... -
Do you see any former cleaners, factory workers or construction workers also double up as MPs?Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):funny leh... why they dun say that about factory worker, construction worker and cleaner one?? pay them more to keep them lor.. why outsource??
No? -
Well Said! Well Said!! I realli wonder would anyone wan to be a fool and wait for another 5 yrs and waste another 5 yrs youth after listening to their N. rally speech. After waiting 5 yrs, 10 yrs or so, I oni see increase in cost of living, transport fare, GST and many many other but salary never increase except Pay hike for ????u know I know...Originally posted by robertteh:This is not the first time people are disagreeing with what PM and MM Lee were telling the citizens that comparable jobs in the private sector are paying more than those within the government and civil service.
In fact if people are to conduct an independent survey it will be found for sure that equivalent jobs outside the government are paid much lower salaries than those in the government or civil service including the many layers of promotional posts to reward those within the government. A property manager with vast professional practical experiences outside is paid only S$3,500-$5,000 pm while a principal estate officer is getting more than $15,000.00 pm for paper work and following instructions from head office.
Experienced litigation lawyer could hardly earn $100,000.00 pm as those earned by the judicial commissioners who did not even have experiences with litigations.
A specialist gynae doctor did not get as much as S$20,000.00 pm earned by specialist consultant in the government hospital.
If a salary survey is to be conducted by an independent agency, based on objective apple-to-apple criteria it will be found that similar jobs in government from teacher to nurse to doctor and lawyer within the government are always paid more - in fact much more than counter-part in the private sector.
Will the government refund the over-payment of salaries to ministers received over the years due to wrongful or dishonest benchmarking like being done for the ministers recently which were already widely exposed as fraudulent by the people just like NKF. -
ur son's name sounds better with Flings GohOriginally posted by I-like-flings(m):nabei.. i think i need to name my son Elite Goh already lah...
just switching to CNA... that guy really can crap leh...really dun understand wat those 66.6% was thinking previously... sighz... i am really losing my hope on singapore........ -
Apparently the young grads get $4K, have to work long hours.Originally posted by sunnytv:Contradicting huh!! Didn't the gahman say they can earn more outside instead of joining politic. Why outside pay so low? Didn't they say economy is improving?
In S'pore the top lawyers are those who are made partners.
In HK they can get $11K (no CPF, lower tax), so many left.
This is part of globalisation.
But if they pay them more, means higher legal fees, end up higher cost for everyone. -
ppl will go anywhere to work given the right amount.....