Pity the British's youth
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Earl from our understanding in England there is a major shortage of affordable house and apartment and many young adults are struggling to service their mortgage due to the estremely high interest rate 10%? May I know how are your mate handling the situation? Or you mate already have houses and apartment fully paid off by their papa and mama?Originally posted by EarlNeo:For different retirement package, there is adjustment to their income tax, pension contribution, NHS contribution etc. But as for the VAT, u are right. It is like GST. U only need to pay it for everything u purchase. So if u are poor... u spend less u get tax even less.
But if u take VAT out of the equation, ppl there get more for paying a lesser % for their tax, pension, NHS contribution (30~33%) for mid income earner, unlike here, we pay 5~8% tax + 37%CPF = 42~45% when we work. But over there u get free education, free health care, a better pension scheme that pay for as long u live (50% of last income not just S$500 per month), social benefit, interest free student loan,etc. I wonder why they can provide so much more when their minster get paid much lesser then our MP here?
Oh one more thing, when i first open a bank account there, they give me 50 pound cash (S$160) as a door gift.
Too much completion there. Alot of bank. With saving interest rate as high as 5~8%. Over 80 credit card issuer company... and none of them charge annul subscription fees. There is way to raise fast cash of up 20K pound interest free loan (for up to a yr or more) by using credit card free interest balance transfer. Basically owing several interest free credit card debt total of up to 20K and not needing to pay back for a year. What most of my mate did was either use these 10k~20k save park it at a high interest rate account or use it to invest... but have to be careful.
It really depend on how u use the easy credit and whether it is a good debt or bad debt. What i believe that raises concern for the British youth is that they belong to the latter instead. -
Thanks for pointing that out to me. But then what the retirement ages is dun really matter since it is up to us if we decided to carry one working or not. What really matter is that we can only start receiving our money after reaching that retirement age. Beside delaying us getting what that belong to us, we now have to forfeit the rights of how we handle our money!!Originally posted by hloc:The CPF change will fully take place at year 2018.
In the past, if we pass away early, out family get to have the leftover CPF retirement fund as some kind of reassurance. Now if u die b4 age of 67.... say bye bye to ur hard earn 60K. 60K might mean nothing to MIW, but it sure mean a lot to those low income families. I am sure it is enough to send a grandson oversea for a degree or let someone start a small biz. And why are MP the only one who have the right to receive their pension(50% or 25%? of their last salary, till they die) and continue getting salary after the age of only 50yrs old. (might be wrong abt the age, correct me if i am). The poor only get poorer with little or no hope of getting out of the poverty loop, hence the widening of rich & poor gap. -
Earl, can I know what is this $60K you are talking about?Originally posted by EarlNeo:Thanks for pointing that out to me. But then what the retirement ages is dun really matter since it is up to us if we decided to carry one working or not. What really matter is that we can only start receiving our money after reaching that retirement age. Beside delaying us getting what that belong to us, we now have to forfeit the rights of how we handle our money!! In the past, if we pass away early, out family get to have the leftover CPF retirement fund as some kind of reassurance. Now if u die b4 age of 67.... say bye bye to ur hard earn 60K. 60K might mean nothing to MIW, but it sure mean a lot to those low income families. I am sure it is enough to send a grandson oversea for a degree or let someone start a small biz. And why are MP the only one who have the right to receive their pension(50% or 25%? of their last salary, till they die) and continue getting salary after the age of only 50yrs old. (might be wrong abt the age, correct me if i am). The poor only get poorer with little or no hope of getting out of the poverty loop, hence the widening of rich & poor gap. -
Sorry got the number wrong... should be 90k.Originally posted by Gazelle:Earl, can I know what is this $60K you are talking about?
A CPF member is required to keep $90,000 in the CPF to be withdrawn in monthly installments. So if we are force to buy a 90K annuity which will giving us a monthly withdrawal of $500 for life, instead of $711 a month from age 62 to 82. But if you will to die anytime during that retirement period, the remaining fund goes back to the system instead of the family. It is like a no say betting... see who live longer bet.
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Are you sure you know what you are talking about?? please do and read the details before speculating?Originally posted by EarlNeo:Sorry got the number wrong... should be 90k.
A CPF member is required to keep $90,000 in the CPF to be withdrawn in monthly installments. So if we are force to buy a 90K annuity which will giving us a monthly withdrawal of $500 for life, instead of $711 a month from age 62 to 82. But if you will to die anytime during that retirement period, the remaining fund goes back to the system instead of the family. It is like a no say betting... see who live longer bet. -
The current dependency ratio is 30% (retired / working), by 2016, this ratio is 36%.
see below, "planned increase in pension age". so UK has to increase the retirement age too.
So everyone, 2014 to 2016 seems to be the years where the demographic time bomb explodes globally.
TUC general secretary Brendan Barber said:
"Britain is sitting on a 'demographic time bomb'. If we are going to enable older people to stay in work and off benefits, employers are going to have to stop pushing them out on bogus health and safety grounds and start working to keep them employed. The new age laws should be a useful tool in ensuring older workers can continue to earn a quality living but also that the UK economy benefits from the energy and expertise of a valuable section of the workforce.'
November 24 2006 - A new report in the journal Hazards indicates that over one-third of UK workers believe they will be unable to do their current job by the time they are sixty. In the last six years the UK has slipped from first to sixth in the European league table in this respect. The report argues that employers should stop using bogus health and safety excuses to get rid of older staff or avoid recruiting from this age group. Instead they should make more effort to keep the ageing UK population in work and off benefits.
The report entitled "Going strong" shows that the great majority of employees have no significant health problems to prevent them working up to sixty-five or beyond if they wish. However, poor health is the most common reason why people over fifty leave work, with only half retiring early by choice.
The report highlights the 2005 European Working Conditions Survey that shows just 63.5 per cent of UK workers feel confident they will be able to do their existing job when aged sixty. This compares to Germany (73.6 per cent), the Netherlands (71.2 per cent), Sweden (69.7 per cent), Denmark (68.8 per cent) and Finland (65.2 per cent).
The Employers' Forum on Age study (2005) found that almost half the UK workforce would be happy to work until they were seventy, but only one in five thought they would be fit enough. As the population ages, the dependency ratio between workers and pensioners is increasing. By 2016 the number of people under fifty will have fallen by 2 per cent, while the number aged 50-69 will have increased by 17 per cent.
Older people in the UK are much more likely to be economically inactive due to a disability than in any other EU or OECD country. This is especially true for those over sixty. One study found that 40 per cent of men and 20 per cent of women left work sooner than anticipated, with employers instigating two-thirds of those early retirements.
The report challenges false stereotypes about older people and fitness for work. Physical ability is dependent on health and fitness across the whole lifecycle, psychometric and cognitive capabilities do not deteriorate until well after state pension age. People over fifty are positive about learning IT skills. Older workers tend to have fewer but longer spells of absence than younger colleagues.
The report argues that given the UK's demographic time bomb of a rapidly ageing workforce and planned increase in state pension age older workers should turn to newly-introduced protection against age discrimination to keep their jobs and resist being pushed onto benefits. It calls for age and disability legislation to be used in parallel to require employers to make reasonable adjustments, usually minor and inexpensive, to enable staff to stay in work as long as possible.
The report also recommends that older workers should have a legal right to request flexible working patterns as they approach retirement and that employers should develop age management strategies for over staff aged over forty-five, to minimize strains on health. This should include identifying and supporting training needs and implementing workplace exercise programmes.
TUC general secretary Brendan Barber said:
"Britain is sitting on a 'demographic time bomb'. If we are going to enable older people to stay in work and off benefits, employers are going to have to stop pushing them out on bogus health and safety grounds and start working to keep them employed. The new age laws should be a useful tool in ensuring older workers can continue to earn a quality living but also that the UK economy benefits from the energy and expertise of a valuable section of the workforce.'
Rory O'Neill, editor of Hazards added:
"We are living longer and we are staying healthier longer, so there is no rational reason why we shouldn't be able to survive Britain's workplaces for fifty years or more. But intense, stressful, poorly designed work will exact a cumulative toll, so employer-run and government-supported 'work ability' initiatives need to target workers in middle age, so that the workforce remains skilled up and not worn down." -
well... i might be wrong.... if in this case i am wrong, then pls enlighten me. Thanks in advance.Originally posted by Gazelle:Are you sure you know what you are talking about?? please do and read the details before speculating? -
Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Uk have been in a demographic time bomb for as long as i can remember. That i agree with u. But one thing i dun agree is, I will never pity those British youth in debt. If they choose to spend themselves into bad debt, who else can they blame but themselves? They got what they deserve.
The current dependency ratio is 30% (retired / working), by 2016, this ratio is 36%.
see below, "planned increase in pension age". so UK has to increase the retirement age too.
So everyone, 2014 to 2016 seems to be the years where the demographic time bomb explodes globally.
TUC general secretary Brendan Barber said:
"Britain is sitting on a 'demographic time bomb'. If we are going to enable older people to stay in work and off benefits, employers are going to have to stop pushing them out on bogus health and safety grounds and start working to keep them employed. The new age laws should be a useful tool in ensuring older workers can continue to earn a quality living but also that the UK economy benefits from the energy and expertise of a valuable section of the workforce.'
November 24 2006 - A new report in the journal Hazards indicates that over one-third of UK workers believe they will be unable to do their current job by the time they are sixty. In the last six years the UK has slipped from first to sixth in the European league table in this respect. The report argues that employers should stop using bogus health and safety excuses to get rid of older staff or avoid recruiting from this age group. Instead they should make more effort to keep the ageing UK population in work and off benefits.
The report entitled "Going strong" shows that the great majority of employees have no significant health problems to prevent them working up to sixty-five or beyond if they wish. However, poor health is the most common reason why people over fifty leave work, with only half retiring early by choice.
The report highlights the 2005 European Working Conditions Survey that shows just 63.5 per cent of UK workers feel confident they will be able to do their existing job when aged sixty. This compares to Germany (73.6 per cent), the Netherlands (71.2 per cent), Sweden (69.7 per cent), Denmark (68.8 per cent) and Finland (65.2 per cent).
The Employers' Forum on Age study (2005) found that almost half the UK workforce would be happy to work until they were seventy, but only one in five thought they would be fit enough. As the population ages, the dependency ratio between workers and pensioners is increasing. By 2016 the number of people under fifty will have fallen by 2 per cent, while the number aged 50-69 will have increased by 17 per cent.
Older people in the UK are much more likely to be economically inactive due to a disability than in any other EU or OECD country. This is especially true for those over sixty. One study found that 40 per cent of men and 20 per cent of women left work sooner than anticipated, with employers instigating two-thirds of those early retirements.
The report challenges false stereotypes about older people and fitness for work. Physical ability is dependent on health and fitness across the whole lifecycle, psychometric and cognitive capabilities do not deteriorate until well after state pension age. People over fifty are positive about learning IT skills. Older workers tend to have fewer but longer spells of absence than younger colleagues.
The report argues that given the UK's demographic time bomb of a rapidly ageing workforce and planned increase in state pension age older workers should turn to newly-introduced protection against age discrimination to keep their jobs and resist being pushed onto benefits. It calls for age and disability legislation to be used in parallel to require employers to make reasonable adjustments, usually minor and inexpensive, to enable staff to stay in work as long as possible.
The report also recommends that older workers should have a legal right to request flexible working patterns as they approach retirement and that employers should develop age management strategies for over staff aged over forty-five, to minimize strains on health. This should include identifying and supporting training needs and implementing workplace exercise programmes.
TUC general secretary Brendan Barber said:
"Britain is sitting on a 'demographic time bomb'. If we are going to enable older people to stay in work and off benefits, employers are going to have to stop pushing them out on bogus health and safety grounds and start working to keep them employed. The new age laws should be a useful tool in ensuring older workers can continue to earn a quality living but also that the UK economy benefits from the energy and expertise of a valuable section of the workforce.'
Rory O'Neill, editor of Hazards added:
"We are living longer and we are staying healthier longer, so there is no rational reason why we shouldn't be able to survive Britain's workplaces for fifty years or more. But intense, stressful, poorly designed work will exact a cumulative toll, so employer-run and government-supported 'work ability' initiatives need to target workers in middle age, so that the workforce remains skilled up and not worn down." [b][/b] -
You can choose not to pity them but you cant choose not to pay for their shopping as long as you are a british citizen paying tax isnt it? The ugly side of welfare system perhaps?Originally posted by EarlNeo:Uk have been in a demographic time bomb for as long as i can remember. That i agree with u. But one thing i dun agree is, I will never pity those British youth in debt. If they choose to spend themselves into bad debt, who else can they blame but themselves? They got what they deserve. -
the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at near 10%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Uk have been in a demographic time bomb for as long as i can remember. That i agree with u. But one thing i dun agree is, I will never pity those British youth in debt. If they choose to spend themselves into bad debt, who else can they blame but themselves? They got what they deserve. -
You will all shut up if I can get my mates from Blighty (not expats based here) to read and reply to this drivel.
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At near 10% mortgage rate?Originally posted by Daddy!!:the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at near 10%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices.
Are you referring to UK or otherwise?
I checked Barclays, they are offering 5.39% fixed rate, subsequently increase to 6.4%.
http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/BRC1/jsp/brccontrol?task=articleFWgroup&site=pfs&value=8702&menu=4823 -
I think the MISINFORMATION came from Gazelle, goes to show you need to exercise some skepticism when you read Gazelle's post, his data is almost always inaccurate.Originally posted by Gazelle:Earl from our understanding in England there is a major shortage of affordable house and apartment and many young adults are struggling to service their mortgage due to the estremely high interest rate 10%? May I know how are your mate handling the situation? Or you mate already have houses and apartment fully paid off by their papa and mama?
Barclays Mortgage Rates in the UK, which is 5.39% then subsequently 6.4%. -
Like some of you had stated, mortgage at 10% just isnt true, well atleast not while i was in uk past 7yrs. If u really wish to check out the rate, check out abbey national, they are the biggest mortgage lender over there. The max that i encounter was only 6%. They do give saving interest of 5% at bank too. I was just posted by some of my friend that some bank offer up to 8% saving interest, but come with certain catch. But interest earning are taxable too. Unless it is tessa account. The only high interest rate that come from money lending that I can think of is only credit card interest rate of up to 22.3% APR. but due to intense competition, I am sure they are not that high today.Originally posted by Daddy!!:the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at near 10%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices. -
a small debt at 10% is more manageable than a big debt at 5%. it is about the ratio of mortgage interest payments / income.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Like some of you had stated, mortgage at 10% just isnt true, well atleast not while i was in uk past 7yrs. If u really wish to check out the rate, check out abbey national, they are the biggest mortgage lender over there. The max that i encounter was only 6%. They do give saving interest of 5% at bank too. I was just posted by some of my friend that some bank offer up to 8% saving interest, but come with certain catch. But interest earning are taxable too. Unless it is tessa account. The only high interest rate that come from money lending that I can think of is only credit card interest rate of up to 22.3% APR. but due to intense competition, I am sure they are not that high today. -
How much time do you need your British friends to respond? I am interested to hear what they say about it.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:You will all shut up if I can get my mates from Blighty (not expats based here) to read and reply to this drivel. -
1st Originally posted by Daddy!!:the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at near 10%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices.
Eh???2nd Originally posted by Daddy!!:a small debt at 10% is more manageable than a big debt at 5%. it is about the ratio of mortgage interest payments / income.
Are you changing your original statement of "London with a 10% mortgage rate, eliminating hopes of savings in current property prices" to "a small debt at 10% is more manageable than a big debt at 5%"?
The first statement is country specific, the second statement relates to both Singapore, London and other countries. -
I believe you are correct about this.... since banks, like all business, will adjust their rates inorder to get more customer. But it is still likely that some ppl are paying 10%.... while others are paying less.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Like some of you had stated, mortgage at 10% just isnt true, well atleast not while i was in uk past 7yrs. If u really wish to check out the rate, check out abbey national, they are the biggest mortgage lender over there. The max that i encounter was only 6%. They do give saving interest of 5% at bank too. I was just posted by some of my friend that some bank offer up to 8% saving interest, but come with certain catch. But interest earning are taxable too. Unless it is tessa account. The only high interest rate that come from money lending that I can think of is only credit card interest rate of up to 22.3% APR. but due to intense competition, I am sure they are not that high today.
This happens all over the World. -
are you satisfied now that i change the wording to below ? It is such a kindergarten play here with you really, m13.Originally posted by maurizio13:Eh???
Are you changing your original statement of "London with a 10% mortgage rate, eliminating hopes of savings in current property prices" to "a small debt at 10% is more manageable than a big debt at 5%"?
The first statement is country specific, the second statement relates to both Singapore, London and other countries.
the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at more than 5%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices.
at current property prices in london and surrounding, even 3% to 5% interest
is a heavy burden, enough to wipe out any savings an average British graduate could have. -
Suppose if you take a 250,000 GBP mortgage andpay it over 25 years at 6.25% you will be paying about 244K GBP worth of interest.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Like some of you had stated, mortgage at 10% just isnt true, well atleast not while i was in uk past 7yrs. If u really wish to check out the rate, check out abbey national, they are the biggest mortgage lender over there. The max that i encounter was only 6%. They do give saving interest of 5% at bank too. I was just posted by some of my friend that some bank offer up to 8% saving interest, but come with certain catch. But interest earning are taxable too. Unless it is tessa account. The only high interest rate that come from money lending that I can think of is only credit card interest rate of up to 22.3% APR. but due to intense competition, I am sure they are not that high today.
However is you take 250,000 GBP mortgate based on Singapore interest rate of 3.75% over 25 years, your total interest payable is 135K GBP.
The difference is 109,000 GBP, or S$327,000.
Weather if it is alot or not, you have to decide for yourself. -
Pls, u cant compare country interest rate like this. if interest rate is high , the saving interest will be high as well, living of standard and earning(both directly and indirectly) as well, and interest rate affect alot of thing. U are comparing the earning of a s'pore with UK. btw, 1GBP = S$3.25 and they got pay a min wages of 5.30GBP 2yrs ago.. could be more now. where our old folk in those fast food corner getting only S$3~4 per hour. and out fix bank saving interest is like wat? 3% and in UK they give 5% and up to 8%Originally posted by Gazelle:Suppose if you take a 250,000 GBP mortgage andpay it over 25 years at 6.25% you will be paying about 244K GBP worth of interest.
However is you take 250,000 GBP mortgate based on Singapore interest rate of 3.75% over 25 years, your total interest payable is 135K GBP.
The difference is 109,000 GBP, or S$327,000.
Weather if it is alot or not, you have to decide for yourself.
So if bank give u 5% saving interest when u bank money in them... is charging 6% or even 7%Is that consider alot? Else where does bank get it income? bank here give u 1~3% for saving then charge u 3~4% or more for loan... same what... all of them still earn 1%. Unless it is compound interest we are talking. But do u know 3 yrs ago their fix rate mortgage loan interest was as low 3.5%? Those that had opt for that fix rate are earning like sh!t....but sadly, most ppl tend to opt for a variable rate. cos it it more affordable. there is lot of risk and restriction that come with fix rate. Thing in UK just dun work the way we do thing over here..... here most of thing is gov control... they dun even let oversea bank in here.. ? why coz we lost lah... scare gena eaten up. Who still want to bank with them if barclay come in with a saving interest of 5%? Over there.. it is open market and free for all... when there is competition, the service will improve and customer is really the king. Here, with little or no choice... if the gang up.. we are lan lan lah...
The main problem, like Daddy!! had point, out with UK.. is not that they dun earn enough,... it is that they spend too much and dun save enough and dun work long enough. Current youth population attitudes toward work and their earning abilities and their expenditure habit dun telly, hence resulting a possibility that their system might break down. Infact they are earning too much for too little work... super high cost man hour... that is why all their car maker company all close down.
Interest rate is been constantly adjust depending on inflation, economy performance, GDP, etc I am not pro in it... but know enough that interest is normally not the problem, but a mean to address a problem.
I hope I did clarify ur question. What really interest me is why would ppl be interested in the affair of another country that far away unless u have dealing with it... like daddy!! Not that is a bad thing to know more around u...I am just curious that is all.
As for Gazelle, i suggest u read up more on the impact that interest rate have on the country as a whole since u seem to have a great interest in interest rate. -
The KEY thing to be rich is to be DEBT FREE
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Collaborative learning, EarlNeo. This is information age.Originally posted by EarlNeo:What really interest me is why would ppl be interested in the affair of another country that far away unless u have dealing with it... like daddy!! Not that is a bad thing to know more around u...I am just curious that is all.
I am curious to know whether you find yourself ahead or behind your ex-university or college mates when you come back to Singapore after spending 8 years in the UK ? -
Statistic shows that 52% of the UK population can survive financially for 17 days if they suffer a sudden finanical lost in income, while 62% of graduates leave university with debts of over £10,000.Originally posted by EarlNeo:For different retirement package, there is adjustment to their income tax, pension contribution, NHS contribution etc. But as for the VAT, u are right. It is like GST. U only need to pay it for everything u purchase. So if u are poor... u spend less u get tax even less.
But if u take VAT out of the equation, ppl there get more for paying a lesser % for their tax, pension, NHS contribution (30~33%) for mid income earner, unlike here, we pay 5~8% tax + 37%CPF = 42~45% when we work. But over there u get free education, free health care, a better pension scheme that pay for as long u live (50% of last income not just S$500 per month), social benefit, interest free student loan,etc. I wonder why they can provide so much more when their minster get paid much lesser then our MP here?
Oh one more thing, when i first open a bank account there, they give me 50 pound cash (S$160) as a door gift. Too much completion there. Alot of bank. With saving interest rate as high as 5~8%. Over 80 credit card issuer company... and none of them charge annul subscription fees. There is way to raise fast cash of up 20K pound interest free loan (for up to a yr or more) by using credit card free interest balance transfer. Basically owing several interest free credit card debt total of up to 20K and not needing to pay back for a year. What most of my mate did was either use these 10k~20k save park it at a high interest rate account or use it to invest... but have to be careful.
It really depend on how u use the easy credit and whether it is a good debt or bad debt. What i believe that raises concern for the British youth is that they belong to the latter instead.
What you are telling us is only true if you have positive cash asset seating in the bank collecting interest. However the reality is that most young people in UK dont.
And please dont try to sell us the idea that you get 50GBP free lunch every time you open a bank account without highlighting the limitation. if it is as good as what you say, I am sure the british will all get rich opening bank account without working. -
quote:Originally posted by EarlNeo:
What really interest me is why would ppl be interested in the affair of another country that far away unless u have dealing with it... like daddy!! Not that is a bad thing to know more around u...I am just curious that is all.
Collaborative learning, EarlNeo. This is information age.
I am curious to know whether you find yourself ahead or behind your ex-university or college mates when you come back to Singapore after spending 8 years in the UK ?