Pity the British's youth
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1st of all u must know where this debt cam efrom... something which i explain b4. I bet most graduate in s'pore will do worse if they will to get loan for both their living expenses and uni fees. I din go to local uni.. so i duno... but let do a simple calculation. 8 to10k x 4yrs(depending on course) abt 36k to 40k in debt. Btw, do we have interest free loan for those student?Originally posted by Gazelle:Statistic shows that 52% of the UK population can survive financially for 17 days if they suffer a sudden finanical lost in income, while 62% of graduates leave university with debts of over £10,000.
Over there, they pay 1k for fees and at the end of 3~4yr uni study, end up with only 10k~13k debt (interest free. only 3k goes to fees.. the rest is EXPENDITURE meaning if u spend less u have lesser debt)..... which is a better off? Uni student there dun take a single dine from their parent during their uni life and live away from their parent. That is why the debt. Not that they cant save or spend less.
Of coz low % s'pore grad are in debt, coz only those that can afford go to uni... other that dun... dun even get the chances to get into debt... what more to get into those statistic. -
Simple question.Originally posted by Daddy!!:are you satisfied now that i change the wording to below ? It is such a kindergarten play here with you really, m13.
the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at more than 5%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices.
at current property prices in london and surrounding, even 3% to 5% interest
is a heavy burden, enough to wipe out any savings an average British graduate could have.
So what happened to your 10% mortgage rate? There is a huge difference between 10% and 5%.
Whose article? Your's or Gazelle's? Reliability? According to Gazelle's past records, his information is most of the time misinformation.
So is your mortgage rate 10% or 5% now?Originally posted by Daddy!!:the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at near 10%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices. -
I think the basic difference between UK youths incurring a debt of GBP 10,000 is because western youths tend to be more independent (I can't verify if it's 100% true for UK youths) they will move out from parents house once they hit University. Whereas Singaporeans are more dependent on family, they will still stay with family even though they have found employment after University.Originally posted by Gazelle:Statistic shows that 52% of the UK population can survive financially for 17 days if they suffer a sudden finanical lost in income, while 62% of graduates leave university with debts of over £10,000.
What you are telling us is only true if you have positive cash asset seating in the bank collecting interest. However the reality is that most young people in UK dont.
And please dont try to sell us the idea that you get 50GBP free lunch every time you open a bank account without highlighting the limitation. if it is as good as what you say, I am sure the british will all get rich opening bank account without working.
Singapore youths are less likely to incur their own personal debts for education, because some of them will rely on their parent's CPF money to pay for their education and parental support for other expenses. If you think about it, where do our youths get the money to pay their tuition? -
Just curious.Originally posted by EarlNeo:1st of all u must know where this debt cam efrom... something which i explain b4. I bet most graduate in s'pore will do worse if they will to get loan for both their living expenses and uni fees. I din go to local uni.. so i duno... but let do a simple calculation. 8 to10k x 4yrs(depending on course) abt 36k to 40k in debt. Btw, do we have interest free loan for those student?
Over there, they pay 1k for fees and at the end of 3~4yr uni study, end up with only 10k~13k debt (interest free. only 3k goes to fees.. the rest is EXPENDITURE meaning if u spend less u have lesser debt)..... which is a better off? Uni student there dun take a single dine from their parent during their uni life and live away from their parent. That is why the debt. Not that they cant save or spend less.
Of coz low % s'pore grad are in debt, coz only those that can afford go to uni... other that dun... dun even get the chances to get into debt... what more to get into those statistic.
For UK students, what are their University fees structure? Only GBP 1K for fees, surely can't be that cheap right?
If it's so cheap even their carwashers with ability will be able to afford a university education. -
Err.... not sure is it really GBP 1K. But can afford to go, doesn't mean got good enough grades to go... heheheOriginally posted by maurizio13:Just curious.
For UK students, what are their University fees structure? Only GBP 1K for fees, surely can't be that cheap right?
If it's so cheap even their carwashers with ability will be able to afford a university education.
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Originally posted by hloc:
Yah.
[b]Err.... not sure is it really GBP 1K. But can afford to go, doesn't mean got good enough grades to go... hehehe [/b]
But it's so cheap.
I think it's even better in some of the Nordic countries, where University education is free. Of course Gazelle can argue that it's not free because someone else has to pay for it. But, with free University education it gives all citizens an equal stepping stone, instead of like Singapore, if your parents can't afford to pay for your University fees, you end up daft like some of the pro P4P in here. -
m13, this article below lor. From the way you write, one can deduce that you can only assimilate small details, like 5% to 10%, like 672mio to 700mio. What is your problem? You seem looking for attention.
Note " The number of people struggling to meet debt repayments has also increased."
LONDON (Reuters) - More than eight million British adults are in serious debt, an increase of 30 percent in the past year, largely due to rising interest rates, according to research published on Thursday.
Some 8.2 million people, equivalent to 18 percent of the adult population, have 10,000 pounds or more of unsecured debt -- such as credit cards, overdrafts, loans and store cards -- according to a quarterly survey by debt consultancy Thomas Charles.
The number of people struggling to meet debt repayments has also increased.
A quarter of those with serious debts --10,000 pounds or more -- concede they frequently have problems meeting repayments, up 9 percent on the year.
The poll of 2,115 British adults, conducted by YouGov, also shows that people in London are the most likely to be struggling with debt.
Around 40 percent of those living in the capital with debts of 10,000 pounds ore more say they have regular problems repaying their dues.
This compares with 20 percent in the rest of the south and just 18 percent in the Midlands and Wales. -
But, it doesn't say mortgage rate is at 10%?Originally posted by Daddy!!:m13, this article below lor. From the way you write, one can deduce that you can only assimilate small details, like 5% to 10%, like 672mio to 700mio. What is your problem? You seem looking for attention.
Note " The number of people struggling to meet debt repayments has also increased."
LONDON (Reuters) - More than eight million British adults are in serious debt, an increase of 30 percent in the past year, largely due to rising interest rates, according to research published on Thursday.
Some 8.2 million people, equivalent to 18 percent of the adult population, have 10,000 pounds or more of unsecured debt -- such as credit cards, overdrafts, loans and store cards -- according to a quarterly survey by debt consultancy Thomas Charles.
The number of people struggling to meet debt repayments has also increased.
A quarter of those with serious debts --10,000 pounds or more -- concede they frequently have problems meeting repayments, up 9 percent on the year.
The poll of 2,115 British adults, conducted by YouGov, also shows that people in London are the most likely to be struggling with debt.
Around 40 percent of those living in the capital with debts of 10,000 pounds ore more say they have regular problems repaying their dues.
This compares with 20 percent in the rest of the south and just 18 percent in the Midlands and Wales.
There is a big difference between 5% and 10%.
So have you made a mistake with your post?Originally posted by Daddy!!:the article suggests strongly that a substantial of them, and most of them if they are in London, are in this situation. the reasons are also clearly stated in the article. dont under-estimate the interest component of the mortgage. at near 10%, the mortgage interest can easily eliminate any hopes of saving at current property prices. -
I know a friend of mine who moved to UK with his wife and children. While he was working there, he asked his Singapore-based parents to help him financially (he was paying rent). After a few years, he could not take the financial burden and came back.
Put it crudely, he went there and work, paid for someone else's mortgage because he rented a flat, paid for someone else's pensions through his salary and screw.ed his own parents and himself. -
the content is on high mortgage repayment and not on the level of interest rates, so whether it is 10% or 5% is not crucial at all. On Barclays website, "Our best rate yet, the overall cost for comparison is 6.9% APR" I think since 6.9% is the best rate, then the average rate should be close to 10%.Originally posted by maurizio13:
m13, i am a bit tired of you. can you stop pestering me? -
1) You are making the assumption that 52% of Singaporeans need to take loan from banks to finance their education.Originally posted by EarlNeo:1st of all u must know where this debt cam efrom... something which i explain b4. I bet most graduate in s'pore will do worse if they will to get loan for both their living expenses and uni fees. I din go to local uni.. so i duno... but let do a simple calculation. 8 to10k x 4yrs(depending on course) abt 36k to 40k in debt. Btw, do we have interest free loan for those student?
Over there, they pay 1k for fees and at the end of 3~4yr uni study, end up with only 10k~13k debt (interest free. only 3k goes to fees.. the rest is EXPENDITURE meaning if u spend less u have lesser debt)..... which is a better off? Uni student there dun take a single dine from their parent during their uni life and live away from their parent. That is why the debt. Not that they cant save or spend less.
Of coz low % s'pore grad are in debt, coz only those that can afford go to uni... other that dun... dun even get the chances to get into debt... what more to get into those statistic.
2) The one that dont have to take bank load and one taht pay the least interest to financing their education is the one that is better off.
3) Are you making the assumption that higher % of british citizen has universtity education while singaporeans are deprieve of such education? -
I dont comment on speculation.Originally posted by maurizio13:I think the basic difference between UK youths incurring a debt of GBP 10,000 is because western youths tend to be more independent (I can't verify if it's 100% true for UK youths) they will move out from parents house once they hit University. Whereas Singaporeans are more dependent on family, they will still stay with family even though they have found employment after University.
Singapore youths are less likely to incur their own personal debts for education, because some of them will rely on their parent's CPF money to pay for their education and parental support for other expenses. If you think about it, where do our youths get the money to pay their tuition? -
It's not crucial? But when you made ONLY that statement it's misleading, everybody will think it's 10% instead of 6.9%, it's a whole lot of difference, maybe you should have checked your figures for accuracy before you posted.Originally posted by Daddy!!:the content is on high mortgage repayment and not on the level of interest rates, so whether it is 10% or 5% is not crucial at all. On Barclays website, "Our best rate yet, the overall cost for comparison is 6.9% APR" I think since 6.9% is the best rate, then the average rate should be close to 10%.
m13, i am a bit tired of you. can you stop pestering me?
Anyway, if you don't want to admit that you made a mistake with your interest rates, it's fine with me, at least we know what kind of person we are debating with.
Maybe our Ministers was also using your method of determining longevity in Singapore. Your interest rates was off by a percentage of 44.93% (approx.).
[Case Close] -
Just shut the fcuk up lah. people already tell you he is sick and tired of talking to you.Originally posted by maurizio13:It's not crucial? But when you made ONLY that statement it's misleading, everybody will think it's 10% instead of 6.9%, it's a whole lot of difference, maybe you should have checked your figures for accuracy before you posted.
Anyway, if you don't want to admit that you made a mistake with your interest rates, it's fine with me, at least we know what kind of person we are debating with.
Maybe our Ministers was also using your method of determining longevity in Singapore. Your interest rates was off by a percentage of 44.93% (approx.).
bloody BIT.CH!! -
"Mummy, I am right, Daniel is wrong !! I don't care, I don't care, I want him to say sorry ! "
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Originally posted by Daddy!!:
Well it is hard to say. I took a very different path. I started with an intention to teach or work in area (research) that can better benefit the human... that is why i took up the free PhD scholarship there after doing my degree in UK. Would have stayed there if not for my parent over here.
I am curious to know whether you find yourself ahead or behind your ex-university or college mates when you come back to Singapore after spending 8 years in the UK ?[/b]
When i am back, financially I am way behind. One of my poly mate is now a millionaire. Others are married and most of them are doing better then me. Beside that, i had change my goals from doing something great to a more selfish one. That is to gain financials freedom and retire by age of 45yrs, where i will decide where to go from there. So itis more of catching game.
In fact, in term of a lot of things, I am way behind. But in term less materialistic measurement, in term of mental development such as thinking outside the box, creativity and way to do thing differently, I think i have become more humble and are less restrictive in my perspective and more willingly to get out of my comfort zone. I felt that I had progress from a rather tunnel vision to an open view, really get to see and experience what life have to offer and live it to the max. Cos over there, the society is created by the brit to suit their need. hence I have to adapt and change myself to fit in. In doing so... u start to understand their action and the how they think.
Some of the thing i observe there; The weather there might be gloomy but the ppl there aint. I see old folk (husband&wife), in their 70s&80s still very much active & in love. Driving or using the public transport, travelling the country, enjoying their time in the garden, etc.. instead of being dump in the old folk home or trap inside their home. Despite the problem they face, u can see that ppl are generally well manner and enjoying their live, peaceful and a lot less hectic. The main reason why ppl work is so that they can provide for their family. So if you have to work more then 44hrs per week... where does that leave u? A family that dun include u? I can carry on and on....
In term of vision, i would say I am way ahead most of my peers, coz i now have a wider view.I'd saw and know what other countrys (beside UK) have to offer and i dun really see the need to accept what that is being offer to me if I dun like it. The world is really big...... -
Originally posted by maurizio13:Just curious.
For UK students, what are their University fees structure? Only GBP 1K for fees, surely can't be that cheap right?
If it's so cheap even their carwashers with ability will be able to afford a university education.Originally posted by hloc:
Actually, 1kGBp per year is consider expensive to THEM, it was free 5 yrs ago. the gov scare that the funding to the uni isnt enough to give the uni over there a decent chance to compete with the world uni, so they try to raise more fund by starting to charge the student. After a lot or protest and readjustment, the initial propose 3k was lower to 1kGBP per year. Too bad, the policy only applied to EU country, coz any EU cititzen can study anywhere in the EU for free too. If they met the requirement. That is why i have to pay close to 10kGBP per year for tuition fees. Lucky, during then, exchange rate was like 1GBP to S$2.3~2.7. Now 1GBP to S$3.25. Alos.. i got free scholarship by the gov there, no fees and they pay me year 6~7KGBP depending on where u are... My mater got paid 13KGBP per year coz he is in london.
[b]Err.... not sure is it really GBP 1K. But can afford to go, doesn't mean got good enough grades to go... hehehe [/b] -
Thank you EarlNeo for sharing.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Well it is hard to say. I took a very different path. I started with an intention to teach or work in area (research) that can better benefit the human... that is why i took up the free PhD scholarship there after doing my degree in UK. Would have stayed there if not for my parent over here.
When i am back, financially I am way behind. One of my poly mate is now a millionaire. Others are married and most of them are doing better then me. Beside that, i had change my goals from doing something great to a more selfish one. That is to gain financials freedom and retire by age of 45yrs, where i will decide where to go from there. So itis more of catching game.
In fact, in term of a lot of things, I am way behind. But in term less materialistic measurement, in term of mental development such as thinking outside the box, creativity and way to do thing differently, I think i have become more humble and are less restrictive in my perspective and more willingly to get out of my comfort zone. I felt that I had progress from a rather tunnel vision to an open view, really get to see and experience what life have to offer and live it to the max. Cos over there, the society is created by the brit to suit their need. hence I have to adapt and change myself to fit in. In doing so... u start to understand their action and the how they think.
Some of the thing i observe there; The weather there might be gloomy but the ppl there aint. I see old folk (husband&wife), in their 70s&80s still very much active & in love. Driving or using the public transport, travelling the country, enjoying their time in the garden, etc.. instead of being dump in the old folk home or trap inside their home. Despite the problem they face, u can see that ppl are generally well manner and enjoying their live, peaceful and a lot less hectic. The main reason why ppl work is so that they can provide for their family. So if you have to work more then 44hrs per week... where does that leave u? A family that dun include u? I can carry on and on....
In term of vision, i would say I am way ahead most of my peers, coz i now have a wider view.I'd saw and know what other countrys (beside UK) have to offer and i dun really see the need to accept what that is being offer to me if I dun like it. The world is really big......
Idealism is what man supposed to be. I read a report which stated before that the bone structure in a man's mouth is herbivorous. Man has a natural gene to be kind. I saw it in my children when they were toddlers. They all have natural compassion for others. One cried when he saw Pinnochio suffered when he smoked a cigar. When one grows up to adulthood, one realized that a balance between pragmatism and idealism is needed to survive the real world. -
I am saying that 62% of the those are in debt bcoz they choose to, rather then they had to.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) You are making the assumption that 52% of Singaporeans need to take loan from banks to finance their education.
2) The one that dont have to take bank load and one taht pay the least interest to financing their education is the one that is better off.
3) Are you making the assumption that higher % of british citizen has universtity education while singaporeans are deprieve of such education?
Easy to answer u.... why are they in debt when their education is more of less free??? and s'porean have to pay for their education?
Btw, those debt are mostly from student loan with "ZERO" interest, and i think, only require to pay back after grad for 3yrs.
So which one is better again?
Yes, they do have higher uni grad percentage. But the main point is:"Their education is make available to all, regardless of ur background." Cos it is free. Do u know that to encourage the teenager to stay in school, their gov actually trying paying them allowance, if they go to school and get good result. Of cos it only applied to poor family. Now it is not just free, u got paid. Also primary & secondary school lunch is free i think... not so sure... coz i din attend. -
I suspose the tax payer are actually paying for such inefficency in the educational system huh?Originally posted by EarlNeo:I am saying that 62% of the those in debt are there bcoz they choose to rather then they had to.
Easy to answer u.... why are they in debt when their education is more of less free??? and s'porean have to pay for their education? the best thing is..
Btw, those debt are mostly from student loan with "ZERO" interest, and i think, only require to pay back after grad for 3yrs.
Yes, they do have higher uni grad percentage. But the main point is:"Their education is make available to all, regardless of ur background." Cos it is free. Do u know that to encourage the teenager to stay in school, their gov actually trying paying them allowance, if they go to school and get good result. Of cos it only applied to poor family. Now it is not just free, u got paid and also primany & secoundary lunch is free.
Allowance for kids to study? thats not my cup of tea honestly. -
I think it's good for the UK society as a whole, because whether you are rich or poor, you will have the opportunity to get an education and be rid of poverty. Maybe the Singapore government can learn from the western countries regarding education.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Actually, 1kGBp per year is consider expensive to THEM, it was free 5 yrs ago. the gov scare that the funding to the uni isnt enough to give the uni over there a decent chance to compete with the world uni, so they try to raise more fund by starting to charge the student. After a lot or protest and readjustment, the initial propose 3k was lower to 1kGBP per year. Too bad, the policy only applied to EU country, coz any EU cititzen can study anywhere in the EU for free too. If they met the requirement. That is why i have to pay close to 10kGBP per year for tuition fees. Lucky, during then, exchange rate was like 1GBP to S$2.3~2.7. Now 1GBP to S$3.25. Alos.. i got free scholarship by the gov there, no fees and they pay me year 6~7KGBP depending on where u are... My mater got paid 13KGBP per year coz he is in london. -
To them, it is a long term investment by the gov... if the average population is more educated, the chances are the return in the future will be better.... that is why i like about them. the gov go thru so much just to give the poor a chance to get out of poverty.Originally posted by Gazelle:I suspose the tax payer are actually paying for such inefficency in the educational system huh?
Allowance for kids to study? thats not my cup of tea honestly. -
i think i know why it din work out for them. Coz there is just too many ppl wanting to go there, hence the rule to become a PR there is very hard. But easier then USA. If u are not a PR there, then u dun get all of the benefit that i mention. Meaning u get to pay the same high TAX but not all of the goodies. Worse is that they just raise the min. of yrs u need to work there b4 becoming a PR is 5yrs. Up from 3yrs in the past.Originally posted by Daddy!!:I know a friend of mine who moved to UK with his wife and children. While he was working there, he asked his Singapore-based parents to help him financially (he was paying rent). After a few years, he could not take the financial burden and came back.
Put it crudely, he went there and work, paid for someone else's mortgage because he rented a flat, paid for someone else's pensions through his salary and screw.ed his own parents and himself.
Think ur fren made a mistake of bring his family there. Surviving there alone with a decent pay is alot easier then here. If u really know the system well, anyone with a brain can beat it. there is alot of mean to earn $$$ Infact alot easier then here. PPl there generally dun work as hard as us asian. that is why, we often perform better over there.
Oh have to edit coz i forgot to add this: Does ur fren know that he can get all the pension contribution back if he decided to sign a form, stating that u will never go back to UK to work or something like that.... Infact u can opt not to pay the pension scheme there b4 u start working there. there is alot of changes going on now.. till it is a bit confusing...
but uk sure isnt a heaven, it has it share of problem too... -
I think basically because us Asians and Singaporeans tend to use brute strength to earn our keep. Whereas more developed countries focus on innovations. I mean look at Nokia a well known brand originating from a Nordic country, every few months you get new innovations and gadget in your handphone. These calls for alot of innovation, something which Asian countries can't compete, because we lack the thinking out of the box solutions. We are so controlled, our thoughts and emotions, that I think that it's hard for Asians to test out new ideas. Maybe we are just born like that, who knows.Originally posted by EarlNeo:i think i know why it din work out for them. Coz there is just too many ppl wanting to go there, hence the rule to become a PR there is very hard. But easier then USA. If u are not a PR there, then u dun get all of the benefit that i mention. Meaning u get to pay the same high TAX but not all of the goodies. Worse is that they just raise the min. of yrs u need to work there b4 becoming a PR is 5yrs. Up from 3yrs in the past.
Think ur fren made a mistake of bring his family there. Surviving there alone with a decent pay is alot easier then here. If u really know the system well, anyone with a brain can beat it. there is alot of mean to earn $$$ Infact alot easier then here. PPl there generally dun work as hard as us asian. that is why, we often perform better over there.
What the government choose to do, is focus on low cost (by importing 3rd world countries labour, to compete with citizens for wages), instead of innovation. This is equivalent to chasing a rock falling in a well, we can only go deeper.
Are you at work? I hope I am not taking up too much of your time.