Pity the British's youth
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that is so true..... u remind me (when in uk) why i dun channel surf during advertisement time in between tv show or why i actually go in early in cinema just to watch the 10min of pre-movies advertisement. they are just too creative to be missed.Originally posted by maurizio13:I think basically because us Asians and Singaporeans tend to use brute strength to earn our keep. Whereas more developed countries focus on innovations. I mean look at Nokia a well known brand originating from a Nordic country, every few months you get new innovations and gadget in your handphone. These calls for alot of innovation, something which Asian countries can't compete, because we lack the thinking out of the box solutions. We are so controlled, our thoughts and emotions, that I think that it's hard for Asians to test out new ideas. Maybe we are just born like that, who knows.
What the government choose to do, is focus on low cost (by importing 3rd world countries labour, to compete with citizens for wages), instead of innovation. This is equivalent to chasing a rock falling in a well, we can only go deeper.
Are you at work? I hope I am not taking up too much of your time. -
Creativity sprouts innovation, which means you can charge higher value for your products.Originally posted by EarlNeo:that is so true..... u remind me (when in uk) why i dun channel surf during advertisement time in between tv show or why i actually go in early in cinema just to watch the 10min of pre-movies advertisement. they are just too creative to be missed.
Something which is not possible for Asian countries. Asians which accounts for more than half the world's population are not able to secure half the nobel awards in the sciences. There are only a handful of Asian nobel laureates. -
The advertisements in Singapore are so dead boring and lame I wonder if they even succeed in their purpose.Originally posted by EarlNeo:that is so true..... u remind me (when in uk) why i dun channel surf during advertisement time in between tv show or why i actually go in early in cinema just to watch the 10min of pre-movies advertisement. they are just too creative to be missed.
Grief... America's ads are so much more .... convincing. -
Part of the problem is that Chinese in general would rather make money than innovate and create new products. Most of the Chinese products these days are just cheap copies of Western or Japanese products.Originally posted by maurizio13:Creativity sprouts innovation, which means you can charge higher value for your products.
Something which is not possible for Asian countries. Asians which accounts for more than half the world's population are not able to secure half the nobel awards in the sciences. There are only a handful of Asian nobel laureates.
The brightest in Japan, China, and Korea have potential to be Nobel Prize winners, but I were to look at Singapore, I wouldn't bother. As it is, most people are just following the crowd when it comes to picking majors in the universities. Never mind research. Getting them to go into research is a totally different story. Doesn't help that the powers to be don't actively encourage research in various areas to nurture interest. -
SG also mah...
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Thxs EarlNeo for sharing your view of life in UK..... since most, if not all of us haven't even set foot there before..... You bring before us a few very intresting facts......
Not all of us are young & single.... althought I amActually, 1kGBp per year is consider expensive to THEM, it was free 5 yrs ago. the gov scare that the funding to the uni isnt enough to give the uni over there a decent chance to compete with the world uni, so they try to raise more fund by starting to charge the student.[/quote]Govt policy does change..... for better or worst. Therefore is it not possible that the welfare system most of us praise the WEST of could also change with time..... Now 50% of your last drawn pay when U retired...... but only 25% 10yrs later.... just when it is time for U to get it, who can guarantee those welfare will last forever
i think i know why it din work out for them. Coz there is just too many ppl wanting to go there, hence the rule to become a PR there is very hard. But easier then USA. If u are not a PR there, then u dun get all of the benefit that i mention. Meaning u get to pay the same high TAX but not all of the goodies. Worse is that they just raise the min. of yrs u need to work there b4 becoming a PR is 5yrs. Up from 3yrs in the past.
Thx U for highlighting the fact that PR is not easy at all to get in the WEST. We have alot of ppl in this forum whos answer to every 'unhappiness' with the Govt is to MIGRATE somewhere.... some even think that they could get welfare just by being there....
So, as you, yourself had said..... if any of us were to migrate over to the UK now..... it will be 5yrs of full taxes without benefit, with only a 'HOPE' of getting PR after 5yrs...... Or is PR guarantee at the end of the 5th yrs - [b]pls enlighten us.
[quote]Think ur fren made a mistake of bring his family there. Surviving there alone with a decent pay is alot easier then here. If u really know the system well, anyone with a brain can beat it. there is alot of mean to earn $$$ Infact alot easier then here. PPl there generally dun work as hard as us asian. that is why, we often perform better over there.
..... and also not all of us can earn a decent pay in some foregin land. So, the system might seems better in UK, but how many of us could go there..... are we even Welcome there at the first place..... or would the local see us as the way we see expat in S'pore, some foregin taking away locals job 
Yeah.... that seems to be the problem. Everyone knows and wants to BEAT the system. Everyone wants to get benefit/welfare/free stuff without paying for it..... And if I had to paid my taxes, die die also wants more & more to make my taxes worthwhile..... and in the end, the next GEN will pay for it. But Hi... I did my part why should I care if the younger GEN have to suffer to support me. I WANT MY WELFARE
And that my friend.... is why I think Daddy !! is feeling sorry for the youth in UK..... but pls correct me if I'm wrong.....
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I do see flashes of creativity from my schoolmates, among other people. Something must have fudged somewhere along the line.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The advertisements in Singapore are so dead boring and lame I wonder if they even succeed in their purpose.
Grief... America's ads are so much more .... convincing. -
Indeed a lot of British students are in debt when they graduate. One of the reasons is precisely because education is free and some have the grades to enter university though not necessarily the funds. In order for places like Cambridge, LSE & Imperial College compete with top institutions in the rest of the world the charging for university is a must, else the funding drags them down. The only way to do this is to give student loans, which is perfectly reasonable. The government recognises the need for an educated workforce and hence uses taxpayer money to grant loans that will be paid back. It's an ideal situation, government & taxpayers help graduates through their studies, and graduates help contribute & repay the investment by the people.
The other thing is the fact that although we pay huge taxes, and sorely feel it throughout our university life, we come out from recognised institutions and gain crucial experience/jobs that aren't always available in a place like Singapore. That temporary ride into debt is definitely worthwhile, which is why the trend is British graduates going to Singapore for expat jobs & not the other way round. -
The sad thing is that while British graduates are welcome into Singapore with open arms by the Singapore's Government insistence in having foreign talents to push the Singapore Economy, the British Government has an air tight selective policy of who they will accept into UK.Originally posted by watchdog:Indeed a lot of British students are in debt when they graduate. One of the reasons is precisely because education is free and some have the grades to enter university though not necessarily the funds. In order for places like Cambridge, LSE & Imperial College compete with top institutions in the rest of the world the charging for university is a must, else the funding drags them down. The only way to do this is to give student loans, which is perfectly reasonable. The government recognises the need for an educated workforce and hence uses taxpayer money to grant loans that will be paid back. It's an ideal situation, government & taxpayers help graduates through their studies, and graduates help contribute & repay the investment by the people.
The other thing is the fact that although we pay huge taxes, and sorely feel it throughout our university life, we come out from recognised institutions and gain crucial experience/jobs that aren't always available in a place like Singapore. That temporary ride into debt is definitely worthwhile, which is why the trend is British graduates going to Singapore for expat jobs & not the other way round.
Singapore students on completing Polytechnic or University are similarly in debt, and for a larger amount compared to the UK students.
To make matters worse, Polytechnic students in Singapore are not accepted into local Universities until they have at least 5 years work experience.
Many have decided to go overseas for their University education - mostly to Australia or the USA, and some to UK.
Sadly all who returned after graduating - unless with Upper Honors - many languish for at least 2 to 3 years looking for jobs that will automatically go to local University graduates.
The parents are the ones who bear the burden of such overseas education, knocking a bigger hole in their retirement fund - which the Singapore Government lament about the Citizen's inability to plan for their future.
The vicious cycle goes on with the blame game. -
Originally posted by EarlNeo:
Positively uplifting and spot on.
Well it is hard to say. I took a very different path. I started with an intention to teach or work in area (research) that can better benefit the human... that is why i took up the free PhD scholarship there after doing my degree in UK. Would have stayed there if not for my parent over here.
When i am back, financially I am way behind. One of my poly mate is now a millionaire. Others are married and most of them are doing better then me. Beside that, i had change my goals from doing something great to a more selfish one. That is to gain financials freedom and retire by age of 45yrs, where i will decide where to go from there. So itis more of catching game.
In fact, in term of a lot of things, I am way behind. But in term less materialistic measurement, in term of mental development such as thinking outside the box, creativity and way to do thing differently, I think i have become more humble and are less restrictive in my perspective and more willingly to get out of my comfort zone. I felt that I had progress from a rather tunnel vision to an open view, really get to see and experience what life have to offer and live it to the max. Cos over there, the society is created by the brit to suit their need. hence I have to adapt and change myself to fit in. In doing so... u start to understand their action and the how they think.
Some of the thing i observe there; The weather there might be gloomy but the ppl there aint. I see old folk (husband&wife), in their 70s&80s still very much active & in love. Driving or using the public transport, travelling the country, enjoying their time in the garden, etc.. instead of being dump in the old folk home or trap inside their home. Despite the problem they face, u can see that ppl are generally well manner and enjoying their live, peaceful and a lot less hectic. The main reason why ppl work is so that they can provide for their family. So if you have to work more then 44hrs per week... where does that leave u? A family that dun include u? I can carry on and on....
In term of vision, i would say I am way ahead most of my peers, coz i now have a wider view.I'd saw and know what other countrys (beside UK) have to offer and i dun really see the need to accept what that is being offer to me if I dun like it. The world is really big......
It is a big World out there, and we should make it our ''play ground''.
While Singapore and UK share some common background, the politics and attitudes of governing each country differs like ''day and night''.
While the UK government is benevolently democratic, the Singapore government is autocratically paternalistic - despite the common tradition in English Law and Constitution Systems.
The ''no free lunch'' philosophy is the operating paradigm in Singapore, with Singaporeans having to pay for everything in Life as dispensed by the Government monopolistic dominance in all the essential political, economic and commercial spheres that makes life meaningful.
Is it any surprise that an elderly person in UK will have the luxury of leisurely time to pursue a university education in their late years, while a similar elderly person in Singapore will have to wipe tables and pick-up used drink cans at hawker centers - so as to eke out a living to support themselves in their late years ?
The Higher Quality of Life is clearly seen for the elderly UK citizens in its un-announced real First World status, compared to the illusionary First World loudly proclaimed by MM LKY for Singapore. -
If you want to compare please compare apple to apple lah. American economy is worth trillion of dollars hence it is common for company to have million dollar budget for the TVC, especially during superbowl.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The advertisements in Singapore are so dead boring and lame I wonder if they even succeed in their purpose.
Grief... America's ads are so much more .... convincing.
As for Singapore TVC are targeting at the only 4.5m population, about 50% of them watch channel8 and or which some are elderly singaporeans who dont even read and speak english.
American ads are convincing? I thought alot of the TV viewers are just stupid americans. No? Have you forgotten that those stupid sell on TV TVC we used to watch in Singapore that were created in America for Americans?
Please stop being a white di.ck sucker lah.. -
When I was in london, i do see quite alot of homeless elderly lying on the street, begging for money at subway station etc. is that how the elderly in UK spend their leisurely time? Or are you making a very bias comparison for the sake of trying to discredit Singapore?Originally posted by Atobe:
Is it any surprise that an elderly person in UK will have the luxury of leisurely time to pursue a university education in their late years, while a similar elderly person in Singapore will have to wipe tables and pick-up used drink cans at hawker centers - so as to eke out a living to support themselves in their late years ?
The Higher Quality of Life is clearly seen for the elderly UK citizens in its un-announced real First World status, compared to the illusionary First World loudly proclaimed by MM LKY for Singapore. -
If you allow the elderly to beg on the streets of Singapore and sleep on the void decks, you will see them... just as if there is transparency in government....
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Originally posted by Gazelle:
Are you coming back to talking to me ?
When I was in london, i do see quite alot of homeless elderly lying on the street, begging for money at subway station etc. is that how the elderly in UK spend their leisurely time? Or are you making a very bias comparison for the sake of trying to discredit Singapore?
Did you decide to change your mind after sniffing some real stuff from your flight of fantasy ?
Were you in London on a mission to count the number of homeless elderly so you can chirp your bias PAPa's tune that Singapore has no homeless and discredit your host in London ?
Is London a city of elderly beggars ?
How many elderly beggars did you see when you walked down a London street ?
Which part of London were you to ''see quite alot of homeless elderly lying on the street, begging for money at subway station'' ?
London Central, East End, its suburbs, or were you on the sly - sniffing out at the Red Lights ?
One subway station - how many homeless elderly did you see them begging ?
When were you in London - winter, spring, summer or autumn - to ''see alot of homeless elderly lying on the street'' ?
If it was spring or summber, surely you must be brilliant enough to know that it is normal for the northerners to strip down and soak in the sun - and you probably think they cannot afford garments and are beggars lying around.
On the street ? Surely you mean on the pavement ? If there were alot of them, they must be blocking the human traffic at the subway stations ?
Surely, the good London Bobby could not be so sloppy on the scene to let you see such alot of homeless elderly lying around on the street ?
Did you see elderly folks cleaning tables or collecting drink cans or paper cartons at the malls and shopping centers in London ?
At least you should know that not everyone in London is a citizen ?
Perhaps you were not even born when it was discovered that some of the London beggars were found parking their cars a few streets away, and make a handsome sum in daily begging from suckers like you who visit London about once in your entire life.
Instead of soaking in the London atmosphere, it had to be a Singaporean Gazelle to sniff the worse side at others just to make yourself and Singapore look better. -
i know for sure that in singapore, there are poor elderly who are housed in neat, tidy, clean 2 room hdb flat at very low rent, like S$50 ish per month. perhaps thats the reason nearly everyone in singapore has a roof over their heads.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:If you allow the elderly to beg on the streets of Singapore and sleep on the void decks, you will see them... just as if there is transparency in government....
recall now, some died due to cold during winters (because they are on the streets without a house with heating) and died due to heat during hot summers (because they are on the streets without a house to protect them). -
so if the elderly in Singapore are not allowed to sleep on the void decks, where do they sleep? back to their home? If they are not allowed to beg on the streets of Singapore, where do they go begging?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:If you allow the elderly to beg on the streets of Singapore and sleep on the void decks, you will see them... just as if there is transparency in government.... 
Not that there are no poor people or no homeless people in Singapore, but this is different from people sleeping on the streets and beggers around. There are many reasons why sometimes you see old folks sleeping on the street, and most beggers you see on the streets overseas are actually part of some syndicates, in India, in Thailand and even in Vietnam. -
Err.... u telling us that there isn't elderly begging elsewhere in the WorldOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:If you allow the elderly to beg on the streets of Singapore and sleep on the void decks, you will see them... just as if there is transparency in government.... Only elderly in S'pore have to Beg No beggar of any age in other countries
I've seen beggar, homeless in Aust, NZ, Hong Kong..... many more in Asian countries like Indonesia or Thailand..... Unlike Gazelle, I don't make a point to 'count' them...... but like you said, U will see them if you wanted to. -
i was trying to express this but my vocab is limited. you got the words i wanted, " benevolently democratic"Originally posted by Atobe:
the UK government is benevolently democratic
we belong to the generation of english educated people. naturally, it will be in our interests that england is strong and getting stronger. for instance, we dont want to be only ones speaking english when the world is speaking german, japanese, french, mandarin, etc. english is dominant because UK was and USA is dominant. A stronger UK helps Singapore simply we are english educated people and there is no sign of relaxing on that.
at the moment, i feel that the country's population is being diluted by immigrants at alarming speed. for instance, based on a graph i saw and my memory, more than 60% of population growth in uk is currently due to immigrants. surely, many of these immigrants compete with the young graduates for jobs at lower salaries, more willing to accept worser conditions of living (hence cost of living) . Will these immigrants share the same values as the traditional British?
but the underlying strength as shared by EarlNeo is in their minds. Their idealistic views of what a human being should be probably sustain them. This strength is now challenged by capitalism : it is capitalism which brought the london prices to such astronomical levels which directly make lives so difficult for the young people. My question and concern is : Will we see the young people in UK turning selfish and only go for the money ? Will we see a sharp U-turn in their attitudes to have a " benevolently democratic" government ?
Will the current young people behave as benevolently as their grandparents when they reach their old age themselves when they are told that they are going to receive their pensions only at age 75?
UK, in my opinion, is the last major English stronghold of humanity versus unfeeling robotic capitalism. UK is a lot more "humane" than USA, probably due to their much longer cultural heritage. Will this last "hope" for english speaking people falter? -
Some of them used the one room house as a store for the piles of folded and compressed paper cartons, as well as bags of crushed drink cans - making the living environment a health and fire hazard.Originally posted by Daddy!!:i know for sure that in singapore, there are poor elderly who are housed in neat, tidy, clean 2 room hdb flat at very low rent, like S$50 ish per month. perhaps thats the reason nearly everyone in singapore has a roof over their heads.
recall now, some died due to cold during winters (because they are on the streets without a house with heating) and died due to heat during hot summers (because they are on the streets without a house to protect them).
There were at least two recent cases of fire in such an environment.
$50 for a one room HDB flat will be more realistic, but there remain the defaulters to the monthly utility bills that got the electrical and water supply being cut to these units.
Some prefer to use candle even when electric supply is available.
$500 from annuity, with addtional amount supplemented through the sale of discarded paper cartons and crushed drink cans, what kind of First World living standard can this be for the elderly Singaporeans, after giving the best years for Singapore ?
$500 from annuity - provided the elderly poor have enough to start the annuity programm. -
obviously we have not reached first world standard today. but i do learn several convincing knowledge from reading international magazines and some interesting signals from the government that we are indeed heading to that first world standard direction.
then what is "First World Standard" ?
What do you understand as "First World Standard" ? -
Shall we accept SM GCT previous dream of a Swiss Standard of Living ?Originally posted by Daddy!!:obviously we have not reached first world standard today. but i do learn several convincing knowledge from reading international magazines and some interesting signals from the government that we are indeed heading to that first world standard direction.
then what is "First World Standard" ?
To achieve that Swiss Standard of Living, we should not be saddled with the Swiss Cost of Living and letting the Standards slipped away as had happened after GCT glorious dream being announced.
The Swiss Standard of Living include the responsibility of each and every Swiss Citizen to exercise a choice at deciding every part of the political processes through referendums on all major issues that affect the Swiss politics, economics, culture, social, and heritage.
The Swiss Government serves as an Administrator and a Co-ordinating Servant to the Swiss Citizens.
The Swiss Government do not usurp the political power of the Swiss Citizen.
This is the First World Standard of Living in which the Citizen is Number ONE. -
that is your definition of "First World Standard", Atobe.
As you said, it was GCT who mentioned about Singapore achieving "First World Standard". Have you asked him to elaborate on that? What does he mean by that ?
so we have arrived at this question,
What does GCT mean by "First World Standard" ? How do the policies announced by our government fit in ? -
Yeah i often wonder why the homeless are there when i was 1st there, since they can get social benefit. Then one day, i decide to ask them and my mate. Guess what they said? Some actually choose to be homeless. It is a way of life style for them!!! Can u believe that? I ask why? well, they still receive a min. amount of help from gov, such as food at certain centre or food coupon, and if they have a pet with them, they get a bit more $$, etc.. Some are elder that dun live well with family, but yet dun 1 to end in old folk home, some are alcoholic /drug addictive who refuse to quit or go to rehabilitation, other able elder simple refuse to work. Oh one more thing, if u pity them, dun give them cash, instead buy them some hot drink&food and offer to them. Reason why? Coz if u give them $$, they'll just go buy cigarette and alcohol.Originally posted by Gazelle:When I was in london, i do see quite alot of homeless elderly lying on the street, begging for money at subway station etc. is that how the elderly in UK spend their leisurely time? Or are you making a very bias comparison for the sake of trying to discredit Singapore?
For social benefit to be approve, there is a few catch, such as the applicant is work able, they must try looking for job. If u cant find, the job centre will help, meaning u must go a certain amount of interview per month to justify u being jobless and not just sponging on the gov, etc It is hard to help those that dun even want to help themselves. Sometime ppl juz give up.
By the way, they are call the homeless bunch.. and consist of not just the old, but teen and young adult. Most of them will try to sell u a magazine... it is a charity that write and print magazine for them to sell... all the money gather goes back to the homeless guy selling it. Bottom line, if the homeless there choose not to remain so... they can, coz there is a safety net build in by the system to help them get back on their feet. -
That is a very good question..... Since there is also beggar & Homeless in many of the '1st World' countries, is '1st World Standard' the BESTOriginally posted by Daddy!!:obviously we have not reached first world standard today. but i do learn several convincing knowledge from reading international magazines and some interesting signals from the government that we are indeed heading to that first world standard direction.
then what is "First World Standard" ?
What do you understand as "First World Standard" ? It seems that every country in the world have their own problem with Welfare, Old Age, jobless youth.... etc.
Therefore the WEST might not be the Elderly/Homeless paradise most like to claim it is.
Hopefully the S'pore Govt could in the shortest time possible, comes out with a balance plan for our Elderly..... a balance plan between Cost (Higher taxes, GST, future debt for the next GEN... etc) & Welfare (Cheaper housing, medical, more help for the Elderly).
Hahaha..... but I don't think it will be anytime soon. -
One thing is for sure is that Singapore need to climb up the human development index in order to reach the first world standards. thats my opinion, dont flame me..Originally posted by Daddy!!:that is your definition of "First World Standard", Atobe.
As you said, it was GCT who mentioned about Singapore achieving "First World Standard". Have you asked him to elaborate on that? What does he mean by that ?
so we have arrived at this question,
What does GCT mean by "First World Standard" ? How do the policies announced by our government fit in ?