Pity the British's youth
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Well..... then it seems that Gazelle have a point when he said that there are some in S'pore who chose to be homeless..... strange as it seems.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Yeah i often wonder why the homeless are there when i was 1st there, since they can get social benefit. Then one day, i decide to ask them and my mate. Guess what they said? Some actually choose to be homeless. It is a way of life style for them!!! Can u believe that? I ask why? well, they still receive a min. amount of help from gov, such as food at certain centre or food coupon, and if they have a pet with them, they get a bit more $$, etc.. Some are elder that dun live well with family, but yet dun 1 to end in old folk home, some are alcoholic /drug addictive who refuse to quit or go to rehabilitation, other able elder simple refuse to work. Oh one more thing, if u pity them, dun give them cash, instead buy them some hot drink&food and offer to them. Reason why? Coz if u give them $$, they'll just go buy cigarette and alcohol.
For social benefit to be approve, there is a few catch, such as the applicant is work able, they must try looking for job. If u cant find, the job centre will help, meaning u must go a certain amount of interview per month to justify u being jobless and not just sponging on the gov, etc It is hard to help those that dun even want to help themselves. Sometime ppl juz give up.
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then why must it be Swiss ?Originally posted by Gazelle:One thing is for sure is that Singapore need to climb up the human development index in order to reach the first world standards. thats my opinion, dont flame me..
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I believe it has got to do with lower income taxes, high value added industry (such as precision engineering), standard and quality of life, and a safe haven for rich people to park their money.Originally posted by Daddy!!:then why must it be Swiss ? -
Maybe because it just sounds better that we are followinf some western standard..... example - I would pay alot for a Swiss watch.... but less for a China made model.....Originally posted by Daddy!!:then why must it be Swiss ?
The Govt is just trying to sell us a vision.... like a salesman..... -
I am thinking of one picture. You wrote part of the picture as belowOriginally posted by Gazelle:I believe it has got to do with lower income taxes, high value added industry (such as precision engineering), standard and quality of life, and a safe haven for rich people to park their money.
"a safe haven for rich people to park their money." For more information, read up "Fortune Magazine" in the second to third quarter of 2006. Cannot remember exactly which one. getting old. -
Originally posted by hloc:
Nope. the govt is really going big time on this.
Maybe because it just sounds better that we are followinf some western standard..... example - I would pay alot for a [b]Swiss watch.... but less for a China made model.....
The Govt is just trying to sell us a vision.... like a salesman.....[/b] -
how do we end up talking boring singapore -
quote:
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Originally posted by Atobe:
the UK government is benevolently democratic
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i was trying to express this but my vocab is limited. you got the words i wanted, " benevolently democratic"
we belong to the generation of english educated people. naturally, it will be in our interests that england is strong and getting stronger. for instance, we dont want to be only ones speaking english when the world is speaking german, japanese, french, mandarin, etc. english is dominant because UK was and USA is dominant. A stronger UK helps Singapore simply we are english educated people and there is no sign of relaxing on Singaporeans studying English.
at the moment, i feel that the country's population is being diluted by immigrants at alarming speed. for instance, based on a graph i saw and my memory, more than 60% of population growth in uk is currently due to immigrants. surely, many of these immigrants compete with the young graduates for jobs at lower salaries, more willing to accept worser conditions of living (hence cost of living) . Will these immigrants share the same values as the traditional British?
but the underlying strength as shared by EarlNeo is in their minds. Their idealistic views of what a human being should be probably sustain them. This strength is now challenged by capitalism : it is capitalism which brought the london prices to such astronomical levels which directly make lives so difficult for the young people. My question and concern is : Will we see the young people in UK turning selfish and only go for the money ? Will we see a sharp U-turn in their attitudes to have a " benevolently democratic" government ?
Will the current young people behave as benevolently as their grandparents when they reach their old age themselves when they are told that they are going to receive their pensions only at age 75?
UK, in my opinion, is the last major English stronghold of humanity versus unfeeling robotic capitalism. UK is a lot more "humane" than USA, probably due to their much longer cultural heritage. Will this last "hope" for english speaking people falter? -
I hope they do..... but most likely not in my life time.... even thought I'm in my early 30s. The Swiss didn't achive the "Swiss'' standard overnight. But many years of Hardwork.....Originally posted by Daddy!!:Nope. the govt is really going big time on this.
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Everywhere is boring after awhile.Originally posted by Daddy!!:how do we end up talking boring singapore -
the developments are around us in singapore, hloc.Originally posted by hloc:I hope they do..... but most likely not in my life time.... even thought I'm in my early 30s. The Swiss didn't achive the "Swiss'' standard overnight. But many years of Hardwork..... -
Personal... I never felt S'pore as a boring place. There are still parts of S'pore where I haven't even set foot at.Originally posted by Gazelle:Everywhere is boring after awhile. -
Yup..... but at times I'm sadden by the things we have to destory for those development..... old buildings, cut down trees, reclaim coral reef.... etc.Originally posted by Daddy!!:the developments are around us, hloc.
hahaha.... getting sentiment, Must be getting old already.... -
one place I will miss will the Mitre Hotel along Killiney road. It is like a haunted house or hotel california of Singapore.Originally posted by hloc:Yup..... but at times I'm sadden by the things we have to destory for those development..... old buildings, cut down trees, reclaim coral reef.... etc.
hahaha.... getting sentiment, Must be getting old already.... Recently sold for about $150m -
not many have positive attitudes like yours. with your attitudes, you will appreciate your surroundings even if you are born in another country.Originally posted by hloc:Personal... I never felt S'pore as a boring place. There are still parts of S'pore where I haven't even set foot at.
that brings in another interesting point. if one cannot appreciate what he has currently, what chances are there for him to appreciate what he has when he is in another location ? -
The recent release of Timeout magazine in Singapore is a sign that the city is becoming more vibrant. Once the IR starts Singaporeans will get a chance to see alot of international shows and exhibition at our door steps.Originally posted by hloc:Personal... I never felt S'pore as a boring place. There are still parts of S'pore where I haven't even set foot at. -
Yes they always do, but the different is that the ppl get to say YES or NO. If they dun like it, they protest, If it dun work, they vote the opposition. That is why they have labour party is leading the country now instead of the conservative.. during last election most think labour not making the country better, they vote more for the liberate party as a wakeup, that is 1 of the reason blair step down for brown. Here.. we are force into submission.Originally posted by hloc:Govt policy does change..... for better or worst. Therefore is it not possible that the welfare system most of us praise the WEST of could also change with time..... Now 50% of your last drawn pay when U retired...... but only 25% 10yrs later.... just when it is time for U to get it, who can guarantee those welfare will last forever
Sorry i din make it clear. Ppl working or studying there still get benefit, such as free health care, just not all benefit such as the social benefit, etc. Workers with family(that are given work permit), their children too get free education. And after working there for 5yrs, ur statue can be change to PR. (more or less guarantee, if u din commit any crime, etc). Reason is; there is a history of ppl that came there work a while then once got PR, quit and sponge on the system. there is a huge different bet getting PR, citizen and ppl that work there with on work permit. Over there, getting work permit is very hard. U cant do it, only company that employ u can and it will cost them, beside.. they need to prove why they hire u. such as they cant find ppl of ur expertises or u are special individual (those head hunted). Show that u had advertise the job for a few time and fail to get any applicant, etc. So that the ppl there is taken care of 1st, not just letting outsider in to fight the job with the local. Or if there is a shortage of ppl in ur field, etc... Basically, they have enough rule that will make the local feel that their job is secure. Another thing, u have to pay the foreigner the same pay as the local with the same benefit. So if u do the math, it is more expensive to hire foreigner . Unlike here, ppl used s'pore as a stepping stone to go else where and it is so easy to get foreigner worker or apply for their work permit.. and often it is alot cheaper to just hire foreigner.Originally posted by hloc:Thx U for highlighting the fact that PR is not easy at all to get in the WEST. We have alot of ppl in this forum whos answer to every 'unhappiness' with the Govt is to MIGRATE somewhere.... some even think that they could get welfare just by being there.... Sad So, as you, yourself had said..... if any of us were to migrate over to the UK now..... it will be 5yrs of full taxes without benefit, with only a 'HOPE' of getting PR after 5yrs...... Or is PR guarantee at the end of the 5th yrs - pls enlighten us.
Their policy encourage able individual to come there to work and fill in area where they are lacking talent or expertise. But discourage ppl bring in the whole family if they cant support them. Coz if only one work and the other 2 or more sponging on the system, it will be bad for their economy. But if u can support them till u get ur PR, the likelyhood of them sponging on the system is alot lower.Originally posted by hloc:Not all of us are young & single.... althought I am Mr. Green ..... and also not all of us can earn a decent pay in some foreign land. So, the system might seems better in UK, but how many of us could go there..... are we even Welcome there at the first place..... or would the local see us as the way we see expat in S'pore, some foregin taking away locals job
That is why they have alot of inbuild check and agency set up so that it is not being exploited. But it is not perfect. And if the system dun do well, they try to change it and adapt it with the changing time. Then again, the gov need to have both the opposition and it ppl support before and drastic bill is passed.Originally posted by hloc:Yeah.... that seems to be the problem. Everyone knows and wants to BEAT the system. Everyone wants to get benefit/welfare/free stuff without paying for it..... And if I had to paid my taxes, die die also wants more & more to make my taxes worthwhile..... and in the end, the next GEN will pay for it. But Hi... Exclamation I did my part why should I care if the younger GEN have to suffer to support me.
Yes i understand why Daddy!! pity the youth. But I wont, since i came from a sg background, where u have to work hard and fight for what you want, no free lunch, type of society. Looking at the youth there, they are behaving just like the rich spoilt brat here, with the only exception that the brat there are poor. What i do pity is those honest ppl working hard with the intention of providing a better future for their children might be in for a bad ride.Originally posted by hloc:And that my friend.... is why I think Daddy !! is feeling sorry for the youth in UK..... but pls correct me if I'm wrong..... Confused -
hahaha... me more into the quite way of life. The IR don't intrest me at all.... expect that more jobs will be in the market.Originally posted by Gazelle:The recent release of Timeout magazine in Singapore is a sign that the city is becoming more vibrant. Once the IR starts Singaporeans will get a chance to see alot of international shows and exhibition at our door steps. -
In his 2001 National Day Rally speech, then PM GCT stated that:Originally posted by Daddy!!:that is your definition of "First World Standard", Atobe.
As you said, it was GCT who mentioned about Singapore achieving "First World Standard". Have you asked him to elaborate on that? What does he mean by that ?
so we have arrived at this question,
What does GCT mean by "First World Standard" ? How do the policies announced by our government fit in ?
''Our economy grew faster in the 90s than in the 80s, despite the 1997 Asian financial crisis (7.7% per annum, as against 7.3%). I was also quietly satisfied that we realised our vision of reaching the 1984 Swiss standard of living last year. In 1984, we had set this as a target to be achieved by 1999, but we missed it by one year because of the crisis.''
Was reaching an economic growth rate of 7.7% in Year 2000 sufficient justification for claiming that Singapore has reached the Swiss Standard of Living pegged at 1984 ?
Is the Swiss Standard of Living so intangible that it lasted momentarily in a percentum expression only ?
What had GCT in mind when he mentioned the Swiss Standard of Living for Singaporeans to work towards to ?
In an interview that GCT gave to Asiaweek magazine printed in 2001, he explained:
''In 1984, the government said it wanted Singapore to be a developed country by 1999, with living standards equivalent to Switzerland's in 1984. The OECD recently reclassified Singapore as a "more advanced developing economy." Are you on track for 1999?
In 1984, when we talked about the Swiss standard of living, I was using a simple measure of per capita income. By 1999, we would like to achieve the 1984 per capita income of Switzerland. Are we on track? If you look at most of the economic indicators, the answer is yes.''
Unfortunately, the economic downturn in 1987 disrupted the progress, and another one in 1997 shook Singapore to the core before the speech quote and the Asiaweek interview were both made.
Should we look at the SWISS Standard of Living merely in economic numbers or in the totality of the SWISS Life - its politics, social, cultural, intellectual, - that make up the Swiss way ?
All that is mentioned in GCT's National Day Rally Speech of 2001 was addressed to Singaporeans to emulate and conform, somehow they were not quite applicable to the Government, its Ministers, and the Civil Servants.
Such is the half-measures of our Political Leaders towards making structural change is what is hampering our movement forward - as can be seen in LHL's famous remarks of ''all stones were turned over, inspected, and placed back as they were best left alone'' - when he head the Economic Restructuring Committee after the 1997 downturn.
Can Singapore achieve a SWISS Standard of Living that is recognised as equal to any country in the First World - when the Singapore Political System is locked in a Third World mould ?
Can economic progress be lasting when political policies hampers the development of political, social and cultural creativity that is essential to a thriving and living economy ?
The SWATCH watch was the Swiss answer to all the SEIKO, CASIO, Citizens, and ALBA - can Singapore emulate the private enterprise and initiative of the Swiss to recover from the debilating challenge of the Japanese watch industry that knocked out the Swiss historical leadership in this area ?
Such a creative initiative from the Private Sector can only come about when the Political System encourages the Individual to be responsible for all issues - big and small.
Hong Kong is another example of Private initiative and creative enterprise that continue to maintain the Hongkongers reputation of being survivalists in nywhere in the World.
It is the Political System that moulds the People. -
it is always good to read Atobe's posts.
I understand all except this.
"All that is mentioned in GCT's National Day Rally Speech of 2001 was addressed to Singaporeans to emulate and conform, somehow they were not quite applicable to the Government, its Ministers, and the Civil Servants. "
catch no ball
from your post, GCT seems to refer only to the per capita as a measurement yard stick. so his definition is hugely different from yours. -
i see adverts SGImpact. because of our activities, Jason attracts adverts dollars. good try. -
Morning EarlNeo. 1st of all, I would like to thx U for sharing your information about life in UK with us. I always like real life account instate of those from newspaper.... since most, if not all newspaper write about stuff to catch their target reader..... and are either Pro or Anti any given Govt around the World. So, thxs again.
Thxs again for highlighting why I'm against a WESTERN style Welfare System in S'pore. The 1st few GEN on welfare will think that it is a helpful and safetly network for incase they need it. But the later GEN would comes to a thinking that since THEY have to pay for it..... why not make the BEST of it by leeching the system. And in the end.... it is the honest tax paying ppl and their children that have to suffer because the policy will have to change to stop the leeching.Yes they always do, but the different is that the ppl get to say YES or NO. If they dun like it, they protest, If it dun work, they vote the opposition. That is why they have labour party is leading the country now instead of the conservative.. during last election most think labour not making the country better, they vote more for the liberate party as a wakeup, that is 1 of the reason blair step down for brown. Here.. we are force into submission.[/quote]
Mmm.... let me see. If the Govt knows that the country can't support a welfare system any longer.... due to high cost or some other reason.... and decided to stop or at least lower the payout. This would of course make the citizen very very unhappy. The citizen then protest or vote for the opps to force a change in the policy..... EVEN IF IT REALLY IS HARMING THE COUNTRY..... but Hi..... I want my welfare...... That my friend, is my fear. I don't want to sound like a dictator supporter.... But sometimes a Leader have to make a policy that is not popular. And if everytime they have to worry for support, they will end up with policy that is good for the short term but can't be support on the long term.That is why they have alot of inbuild check and agency set up so that it is not being exploited. But it is not perfect. And if the system dun do well, they try to change it and adapt it with the changing time. Then again, the gov need to have both the opposition and it ppl support before and drastic bill is passed.
And that is the point I was talking about..... I pay my taxes... wait for my PR... wait for my turn on the benefit. Then at some point in time the Govt come say that my 5yrs change to 7yrs... or they now have a change in policy due to some other ppl leeching the system. I know in UK there are many parties that are against Foreginer. And very often these parties will use foreginer as Scapegoats for the jobless rate or leeching of welfare. Again No Guarantee for my hardwork.... What I'm trying to said is POLICY changes all the time. Today I'm welcome..... Tomorr I'm a leech on the system....
[quote]Yes i understand why Daddy!! pity the youth. But I wont, since i came from a sg background, where u have to work hard and fight for what you want, no free lunch, type of society. Looking at the youth there, they are behaving just like the rich spoilt brat here, with the only exception that the brat there are poor. What i do pity is those honest ppl working hard with the intention of providing a better future for their children might be in for a bad ride. -
Have you guys heard of the phrase, anybody can be a British, but your can never be an English.
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Gazelle, please remove this post. I am afraid its implications might attract messy posts later. thanks -
If you were to read the referenced link to GCT's speech made at the National Day Rally on Year 2001, he made several goals that he encouraged Singaporeans to achieve.Originally posted by Daddy!!:it is always good to read Atobe's posts.
I understand all except this.
"All that is mentioned in GCT's National Day Rally Speech of 2001 was addressed to Singaporeans to emulate and conform, somehow they were not quite applicable to the Government, its Ministers, and the Civil Servants. "
catch no ball
from your post, GCT seems to refer only to the per capita as a measurement yard stick. so his definition is hugely different from yours.
Some of these which I will extract are :
1. Singaporeans to be enterprising - examples given in Kwek Leng Beng of Hong Leong Group and Sam Goi of Tee Yih Jia.
2. Risk-Taking Culture
3. Accepting Failures
4. Innovation
5. Non-Conformist Thinking
6. Structural Adjustment
7. Charity, Philanthropy and Volunteerism
8. Global vs Local Talent
9. Social and Political Environment
The first seven points are as applicable for the Government to adopt as much as it is encouraged for Singaporeans to change into.
Without the Government taking the lead in Points 1, 2 and 3 - can there be any progress for the remaining.
The Government's lead in Points 1, 2 and 3 is most applicable for Points 8 and 9 - as what was mentioned by GCT for Points 8 and 9 simply require the MIW to maintain the status quo and conduct business as usual - as had happened since 1957.
Note: Points 8 and 9 were taken before Points 6.