will you stick with SingTel?
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Will you stick with SingTel .............
or change to Pacnet to protect your privacy?
Newspapers say SingTel's lawyers didn't even attended the Court hearing....
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will definitely will switch over once my singnet contract is over...
since singnet doesn't even bother to protect the identity of it's subscribers...it shows they only care $$$...too bad...they would lose one long-term customer come this nov!
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Deep within, down inside, whats the diff dude?Originally posted by Dr Who:Will you stick with SingTel .............
or change to Pacnet to protect your privacy?
Newspapers say SingTel's lawyers didn't even attended the Court hearing.... -
Dr. Who got a point there. There is no assurance that singtel is purely a commercial enterprise given the fact the minister testifying to the court has shown affront by uttering the "take it or leave it" intimidating line at the end of the hearing in one case involving singtel.
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I agree with Reddressman. The reason PacNet didn't release the info is because a difference Judge is doing its case. If another judge is to rule PacNet to release those downloader names..... PacNet would also have did it.Originally posted by robertteh:Dr. Who got a point there. There is no assurance that singtel is purely a commercial enterprise given the fact the minister testifying to the court has shown affront by uttering the "take it or leave it" intimidating line at the end of the hearing in one case involving singtel.
Makes no difference who you chose..... when the court order comes, No ISP could save you. -
Originally posted by hloc:
No, I don't think PacNet knew who will be the judge beforehand when it decide not to release subscribers private info.
I agree with [b]Reddressman. The reason PacNet didn't release the info is because a difference Judge is doing its case. If another judge is to rule PacNet to release those downloader names..... PacNet would also have did it.
Makes no difference who you chose..... when the court order comes, No ISP could save you. [/b]
On the other hand, Singnet don't know who the judge for the case is as well, but release the detail nevertheless. -
I've never ever been with singnet, even when they started their 28.8k dial up services.
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i'll still use singtel!
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I have been using Singnet all these years, as well as my handphone contracts for my whole family.
I guess it's time to switch to other ISPs and see which is better... -
it doesnt matter which 1 u choose...
as long u dont do illegal things like downloadin etc...
u shouldnt have any worrys...
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But if you see it in another way, Singnet don't hesitate to give it's subscribers private detail to a third party. So if next time, another company request your private detail for some other reason, who know will Singnet release the info as well?Originally posted by joker105:it doesnt matter which 1 u choose...
as long u dont do illegal things like downloadin etc...
u shouldnt have any worrys... 
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Why isn't anyone talking about Starhub who also gave the IP addresses? Just because Singnet is a govt-owned organization, or because they didn't bother to send their lawyers to court?
Seems like double standards -
Err..... I think both also Govt ownOriginally posted by nanren4ever:Why isn't anyone talking about Starhub who also gave the IP addresses? Just because Singnet is a govt-owned organization, or because they didn't bother to send their lawyers to court?
Seems like double standards 
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You should know who owns the whole of SG network. It doesn't matter who I stick with.
Next, in the newspapers it was mentioned that when ODEX wanted Singnet to release the IP address info, Singnet didn't give because there were no court orders to do so (and rightly so, because their T&C said they won't do it without court orders).
ODEX promptly produce the court orders, and Singnet handled the details over. So it was something like an agreement. ODEX produced the relevant court orders, Singnet would just hand it over.
While it's true that Singnet didn't even put up a fight, the T&C are plain and clear enough they would do so as long as the relevant documents are there.
There's also a judging issue. All 3 cases were handled by different judges. If I didn't read wrongly, none of them mentioned anything about the Copyright Act, which Judge Lau mentions in the PacNet case.
If that was true, then the Copyright Act wasn't even factored in at all, if any. Thus, it would make no sense for Singnet to fight over it at all. Same for the Starhub case, though they did try to help but failed.
Next issue which has been mentioned by LazerLordz, is the lack of Data Protection Act here. So long as anybody has court orders, and it's stated in the company's T&C that they will cooperate when the court orders are shown, it's enough.
The last issue, which not many people know, is that all connections from Singapore to the Internet has to use a proxy. This proxy is not your ISP proxy, but rather, a national proxy.
This has its own implications in this case, but not so much and not of much importance and makes no sense, if any. -
i see which isp gives me better stuff lor
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Extract from Anime in court: 2 ISPs, 2 different outcomes
"What he said about the SingNet case was, however, more troubling: "For the SingNet case, the orders were made by consent."
This means that SingNet did not even argue against Odex's application for subscriber information. The ISP did not even instruct its lawyers to attend the court hearing of Odex's application.
The Telecommunications Competition Code (TCC) prohibits unauthorised release of subscriber information by ISPs.
Although the TCC provision may be trumped by a court order, should SingNet not have argued against Odex's application rather than consent to it?
If the ISP does not argue for its subscribers' rights to privacy, who will?
Without a voice in court, the prohibition in the TCC becomes effectively an empty promise.
One also wonders whether SingNet has acted in breach of the spirit of the TCC provision and, if so, whether punitive measures are warranted."
Wonder will any action be taken against SingNet for brenching TCC? -
Although the TCC provision may be trumped by a court order
Although it writes "may" , the answer is pretty clear. Whatever it is, appeal period is over, unless we have special laws that allow them to appeal AFTER the appeal period. -
Originally posted by hloc:
hloc, it is not because difference judge !!!
I agree with [b]Reddressman. The reason PacNet didn't release the info is because a difference Judge is doing its case. If another judge is to rule PacNet to release those downloader names..... PacNet would also have did it.
Makes no difference who you chose..... when the court order comes, No ISP could save you. [/b]
The different is Pacnet - try and singnet did not even ! As mention on the Straittimes - A lawyer familiar with such proceedings said this means during the run-up to the hearing, SingNet had written to Odex to 'consent' to its request. SingNet's lawyers did not attend the hearing.
Singnet just get the letter and throw in the towel, they did not like Pacnet , question the interest, right of their customers !!! They did not even bored to check if Odex was not the sole licenees which mean they do not have the legal rights to demand it. In simple word - singnet throw in the towel and betrayal their paying customers, without even questioning ..or thinking...
It is not whether the court case is won or not, it is the attitude of big companies and whether it tries or not ....
It is so disappointing for Singnet that been trying to break into internation markets, no wonder it got into so many trouble in Australia, Thailand and Indonesia - how can you expect it to earn the trust of the people there to look into their interest, and protect the privacy and rights - when It have just shown the whole world that it so really sold out its local customer - those who are the 1st customers who make it into what it is today....
It is really shameful that their lawyer did not even attend the hearing ... !!!
Surprisingly it take the smallest of the lot to show the giants what is call customer service ... & care and willing to spend time to read and think what is right .
When i say - right does not mean supporting illegal download. But one must also question the rights of Odex, since it is not the sole licencee, it have no legal rights to anyhow sue people when do not have rights to do it.
Shame on Singnet, it suppose to be giant, but turn out to be a mouse for its customers !!!
I am one of the 1st customer of Singnet ... and have alway stick by them till now, but the shameful news of their lawyers did not even attend the court, just is too shameful to bare !!! - Every month pay them over $150++ . I be waiting for my contract to be up to show them how ashame I am of them. -
singnet customer service sucks?
since when do they care bout customers? -
just renewed singnet contract
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Which means, all those that paid Odex compensation, actually didn't have to pay, unless they downloaded "Gundam Seed". Basically all who has paid should come together and counter sue Odex for unlawful extortion or something like that, or at least get their money back.Originally posted by storywolf:hloc, it is not because difference judge !!!
The different is Pacnet - try and singnet did not even ! As mention on the Straittimes - A lawyer familiar with such proceedings said this means during the run-up to the hearing, SingNet had written to Odex to 'consent' to its request. SingNet's lawyers did not attend the hearing.
Singnet just get the letter and throw in the towel, they did not like Pacnet , question the interest, right of their customers !!! They did not even bored to check if Odex was not the sole licenees which mean they do not have the legal rights to demand it. In simple word - singnet throw in the towel and betrayal their paying customers, without even questioning ..or thinking...
It is not whether the court case is won or not, it is the attitude of big companies and whether it tries or not ....
It is so disappointing for Singnet that been trying to break into internation markets, no wonder it got into so many trouble in Australia, Thailand and Indonesia - how can you expect it to earn the trust of the people there to look into their interest, and protect the privacy and rights - when It have just shown the whole world that it so really sold out its local customer - those who are the 1st customers who make it into what it is today....
It is really shameful that their lawyer did not even attend the hearing ... !!!
Surprisingly it take the smallest of the lot to show the giants what is call customer service ... & care and willing to spend time to read and think what is right .
When i say - right does not mean supporting illegal download. But one must also question the rights of Odex, since it is not the sole licencee, it have no legal rights to anyhow sue people when do not have rights to do it. -
Originally posted by Jontst78:
In a way - you are right, they did not have the sole licencee thus - they are sort recoginse of having the rights to it in the first place , if you do not own the rights, in Singapore copyright law, you cannot sue people for it.
Which means, all those that paid Odex compensation, actually didn't have to pay, unless they downloaded "Gundam Seed". Basically all who has paid should come together and counter sue Odex for [b]unlawful extortion or something like that, or at least get their money back.[/b] -
I'll say we jump in too fast on Singnet. Not that I'm helping Singet, do we ever know if the lawyers they hired know much about Copyright Act or TCC Act?Originally posted by storywolf:hloc, it is not because difference judge !!!
The different is Pacnet - try and singnet did not even ! As mention on the Straittimes - A lawyer familiar with such proceedings said this means during the run-up to the hearing, SingNet had written to Odex to 'consent' to its request. SingNet's lawyers did not attend the hearing.
Singnet just get the letter and throw in the towel, they did not like Pacnet , question the interest, right of their customers !!! They did not even bored to check if Odex was not the sole licenees which mean they do not have the legal rights to demand it. In simple word - singnet throw in the towel and betrayal their paying customers, without even questioning ..or thinking...
It is not whether the court case is won or not, it is the attitude of big companies and whether it tries or not ....
It is so disappointing for Singnet that been trying to break into internation markets, no wonder it got into so many trouble in Australia, Thailand and Indonesia - how can you expect it to earn the trust of the people there to look into their interest, and protect the privacy and rights - when It have just shown the whole world that it so really sold out its local customer - those who are the 1st customers who make it into what it is today....
It is really shameful that their lawyer did not even attend the hearing ... !!!
Surprisingly it take the smallest of the lot to show the giants what is call customer service ... & care and willing to spend time to read and think what is right .
When i say - right does not mean supporting illegal download. But one must also question the rights of Odex, since it is not the sole licencee, it have no legal rights to anyhow sue people when do not have rights to do it.
Shame on Singnet, it suppose to be giant, but turn out to be a mouse for its customers !!!
I am one of the 1st customer of Singnet ... and have alway stick by them till now, but the shameful news of their lawyers did not even attend the court, just is too shameful to bare !!! - Every month pay them over $150++ . I be waiting for my contract to be up to show them how ashame I am of them.
Strictly speaking, the T&C signed by customer would have given ODEX the rights to obtain the info, and that's how ODEX managed to get Singnet and Starhub to release the info.
PacNet's case was different in every aspect. The judge questioned literally everything, copyright and privacy issues. There was nothing to question about privacy, we have no such things here. Then to the copyright issues.
He took into account that ODEX wasn't the sole licensee for most anime sold here, so he rejected ODEX demands. Plus the fact that ODEX was using copyright laws to pressure users, Judge Lau decided that this factor will have to be considered.
So, the question is, did other judges even took this into consideration? If judges can turn a blind eye to certain laws, I can see why Singnet and Starhub could lose so easily.
Also, the judge noted that the tracking method used by ODEX wasn't really so effective, as most users have pointed out, thus the case was rejected, together with the copyright factor.
Judges play an important role in this ODEX case. We have one judge that looks at everything, we have 2 others that probably didn't even bother.
Now that ODEX is considering to appeal, we just have to be prepared for the worst. Judge Lau may have made some questionable points, but that doesn't mean ODEX won't win, solely because of the T&C and because we have no privacy acts here. -
They are lawyers, they are supposed to know. These are not knowledge known by average ppl. If not, why do they charge such a high fee?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:I'll say we jump in too fast on Singnet. Not that I'm helping Singet, do we ever know if the lawyers they hired know much about Copyright Act or TCC Act?
Can Singnet or PacNet predict how the judge(s) will handle the case? If not, does it matter who the judge is then?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:PacNet's case was different in every aspect. The judge questioned literally everything, copyright and privacy issues. There was nothing to question about privacy, we have no such things here. Then to the copyright issues. -
hiaz.... what's the diff ? ....
all three are government linked companies, directly or indirectly .... neh ? ....