War over Water
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so now we know why there's a sudden urgency to stir shit with such vigour...Originally posted by Silenthunter:I not a economist expert or anything... but from wat I heard, our Johorian neighbours (not the government) ain't very supportive about the fact that Malaysia's using their own water treatment.
simple maths:
-Raw water is 3 sens.
-It cost singapore RM$2.90 per 100 gallon to treat the raw water.
-Singapore sell back at 50 sens (subsidising).
-Malaysia GOV sells water to people at RM$3.00 per 100 gallons or more. (got this figure from another forum, another can confirm?)
Where did the rest of the RM$2.40 go? maybe maintainance and stuff will it cost that much?
if Malaysia stop buying water from SG, you think the water bill in Johor will still be RM$3.00 per 100 gallons. Most Johorians knew that and they 're complaining too.
any politics/econs analyst here?Do what i said make sense?
boils down to realpolitik and "face" after all... realistically, i'm not a big fan of mat-hathir but the best way to resolve this would really be to give them a symbolic, face saving victory. they'll just keep raving until u throw them a bone so we might as well throw them one and get this raving canine off our back.
its true! they have nothing to gain but they just LOVE to have "face" at the end of the day... absolutely childish and it just shows nothing but a bad inferiority complex on their part.
that'll buy us more time for awhile and allow us to complete more Newater plants and get them off our back permanently with regards to water! -
NAH...... if we throw them a bone... next time.. they will be asking for a piece of meat...Originally posted by CX:so now we know why there's a sudden urgency to stir shit with such vigour...
boils down to realpolitik and "face" after all... realistically, i'm not a big fan of mat-hathir but the best way to resolve this would really be to give them a symbolic, face saving victory. they'll just keep raving until u throw them a bone so we might as well throw them one and get this raving canine off our back.
its true! they have nothing to gain but they just LOVE to have "face" at the end of the day... absolutely childish and it just shows nothing but a bad inferiority complex on their part.
that'll buy us more time for awhile and allow us to complete more Newater plants and get them off our back permanently with regards to water!
And if we give them a piece of meat... guess wat would they be asking next!!
as far as me sees it....
to deal with a rabid canine.... 2 ways... either we put them to sleep forever.... OR... we throw them a chain around their neck... and pull out the whips....
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And if we give them a piece of meat... guess wat would they be asking next!!
An arm or a leg maybe? -
Personally, I can only think of one solution. Buyer's market. We buy them from them if we think the price is agreeable, if not we don't buy. They can buy treated water from us, if they think the price is agreeable. If not, nevermind.
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Personally, I can only think of one solution. Buyer's market. We buy them from them if we think the price is agreeable, if not we don't buy. They can buy treated water from us, if they think the price is agreeable. If not, nevermind.
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Reverse Osmosis technology has been around since the mid-70's, as most naval and maritime ships employ this technology, so as to make space for other cargo instead of carrying a large volume of water for the duration of the sailing period.
Cruise ships that carry 1000 over crew and passengers depend on this RO technology, and so does the US aircraft carrier that has more then 5000 plus personnels on board this floating city.
We have a wide expanse of water that flows from the South China Sea, Straits of Singapore, Straits of Malacca, and the Johor Straits from which we can place a number of 'RO' equipment.
Reverse Osmosis technology is not as complicated or expensive as our Government has led us to believe.
It is far cheaper then Desalination - which requires energy to boil sea water to separate the salt content from the water (similar to distillation process).
The only reason for continuing the water agreement with Malaysia will be purely for the sake of traditional ties to continue.
However, if this tie is to lead to more trouble than it is worth, we should break it and be totally independent so as to prevent any form of political, economic, or survival blackmail. -
that is SO true...Originally posted by Atobe:However, if this tie is to lead to more trouble than it is worth, we should break it and be totally independent so as to prevent any form of political, economic, or survival blackmail.
as for the point of the buyers market brought up earlier... there seems to be a certain degree of hypocrisy on their part. they want us to pay more for raw water but they're not willing to talk about treated water as openly.
they seem to be engineering the issue such that it seems that we're exploiting them for raw water while they're rightfully entitled to the treated water we sell them.
think about it: has anybody on their side talked about increasing the price of treated water they buy from us?
also, i don't think Sg buys water because it needs the water. they want to buy it to diversify the source of potable water available. its not a very good idea to be too reliant on one source. why put all our eggs into one basket?
our national interests dictates that we must buy as much of it from as many places and at as low a price as possible. call it kiasuism, call it raison d'etat or call it realpolitik. there's always a good reason to have more water than u need. -
You need to control the world to have peace altought i like to help people i may still hav to device poison for muds and take over S.E.AOriginally posted by WinBoi84:Stop tat pls...
"World Peace" pls...
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u doctor leh......u save pple ma...how can posion pple? do your doc job lah...dun kapoh.....Originally posted by huatuo:You need to control the world to have peace altought i like to help people i may still hav to device poison for muds and take over S.E.A -
Finally SG shows her colour. It's about time after taking all this shit from Dr M for so long.Originally posted by controversay:I'm glad our govt has terminated their concessions with regards to the water package.
It would seem that instead of solving the issue, Malaysia seems more interested in informing the press of how "uninterested" we are in reaching an agreement. This of course is anyone's guess since the contract talks are behind closed doors. Sure any negotiation is always aimed at obtaining the best for each side so no one should blame S'pore or Malaysia if they go all out to gain maximum benefits for their own sides.
Our stand is that Malaysia has no grounds to change the previous water agreement since they have already missed the 25 year deadline. The fact that we are prepared to listen to their new offer is more of an obligation as neighbours rather than because we are required to.
If push comes to shove, we can invoke the contract law and disregard their attempts at re-negotiating a price for the water deal. Any court of abitration will uphold this. As a forum-user has already mentioned, the obvious meaning of "after 25 years" is the 26th year, not "any year" after 25.
Malaysia please take note...
Guess PM Goh is really pissed off with them this time.
SG has remain silent for too long and they see this as a weakness. Time to play hardball. No more nice guy.
I say kick those pigs out of the railway land and drive their custom office out of SG once and for all.
Withhold all their CPF as a payback for what they did to our CLOB shares.
After all these incidents, SG should have learnt a lesson that there is no point in reasoning with them.
There is more than one way to skin a pig. -
yah... don't u just love kway chup and ba-kua...
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Well said, these muds are opportunitic dogs, they cease the opportunity to blackmail and threaten us over water, military airspace and at the same time try to take advantage of us in the area of our internal politics and national decisions while at the same time telling us to not to poke our nose into their affairs. They still think that they are living in the 1960s when we "little brother" should listene to them "big brother". However, things have changed, little brother has grown up, got educated and has suceeded and become wealthy unlike stupid brainless big brother. Hence, no more double standard and bullying or elseOriginally posted by SonOfGod:Finally SG shows her colour. It's about time after taking all this shit from Dr M for so long.
Guess PM Goh is really pissed off with them this time.
SG has remain silent for too long and they see this as a weakness. Time to play hardball. No more nice guy.
I say kick those pigs out of the railway land and drive their custom office out of SG once and for all.
Withhold all their CPF as a payback for what they did to our CLOB shares.
After all these incidents, SG should have learnt a lesson that there is no point in reasoning with them.
There is more than one way to skin a pig.
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Posted by Harimau - 21 October 12:45pm
Quote:
"Pleaseee......get your facts right.I challenge you to prove your statement.According to both Malaysian/Singaporean officials and reports(check with your FM)-
Malaysian wants the price at RM0.60 from 2002 till 2007 and RM 3.00 from 2007 till 2061.
On the other hands Singaporean are willing to pay RM.45 from 2002 till 2007 and RM0.60 from 2007 till 2061.
Next time get your facts -correctly"
Challenge me?
On what basis did you get your so called "facts" that you rely on?
If you depend your "facts" as taken from "The Star" then you will be in trouble, as it has never been known to report the truth of what the real world events have occurred, other then from the preferred slanted views of the BN Government, so as to achieve their agenda.
If you depend on your PM and FM, they are not known by us to tell the truth - especially your FM (like father, like son) - not one in the BN Government has any credible credentials that is accepted whole heartedly by non-emotional Malaysians who are educated (forget the toe-suckers and carpet beggars from the kampungs).
Boil everthing down, and when you compare the bones, you will find mine to be whiter than yours.
Good luck to you. -
Those politician across the causeway is simply brainless. The only know how to KPKB and for the last donno how many years, they are having their eyes sored ever since when this small island gain independence, hoping that it will fall and go back begging them, but it never happened. Instead it subpass them in most aspect. Now, like Dr M advise to the world muslim to control the oil, thus, it can control the world reported in the paper early, it want to press the same tactic against this small dot that is brighter then them.
I think since there is a treaty signed till 2061, why not sit and wait till Malaysia propose to breach the treaty and get a hufty sum as compensation. From time to time they tried to drag this issue and somemore stirring up hate feeling among their citizen against Singapore.
Those pig's brain are really good for nothing, apart from eating money, i dont think they are capable of anything. Ya lah of course, blaming other when they are in the wrong is another of their specialilty.
Are they really sincere to talk about those outstanding issue?
It is time this small red dot start fighting back after so many years of stupid non-sense by them. show them some color and teach them to look at themselves first before passing comments on others. Maybe Malaysia school didnt teach math is it? Why should i buy something from you that cost more, if i could produce the sme thing at a cheaper cost...... Maybe they no brain and thus, they dont know anything about logic..... -
Ya get the facts right. Cos this RM 8 is taken from China selling water to HK and that pea brained Malaysia PM and FM wanna use that as a guidline...... but they totally forgot that China have to fully maintenance they whole system while here, singapore is doing so.Originally posted by Atobe:Posted by Harimau - 21 October 12:45pm
Quote:
"Pleaseee......get your facts right.I challenge you to prove your statement.According to both Malaysian/Singaporean officials and reports(check with your FM)-
Malaysian wants the price at RM0.60 from 2002 till 2007 and RM 3.00 from 2007 till 2061.
On the other hands Singaporean are willing to pay RM.45 from 2002 till 2007 and RM0.60 from 2007 till 2061.
Next time get your facts -correctly"
Challenge me?
On what basis did you get your so called "facts" that you rely on?
If you depend your "facts" as taken from "The Star" then you will be in trouble, as it has never been known to report the truth of what the real world events have occurred, other then from the preferred slanted views of the BN Government, so as to achieve their agenda.
If you depend on your PM and FM, they are not known by us to tell the truth - especially your FM (like father, like son) - not one in the BN Government has any credible credentials that is accepted whole heartedly by non-emotional Malaysians who are educated (forget the toe-suckers and carpet beggars from the kampungs).
Boil everthing down, and when you compare the bones, you will find mine to be whiter than yours.
Good luck to you.
I think Singapore should move our immigration to Woodland... piece of out shit we should give the. Why is that stretch of railway belongs to them? It is on our land and if they say they build that, then we shall take out the rail and give it back to them...cos must drug traffiking happened there.... and where is their police to maintenance peace and order along the rail way? -
yeah... seriously! now that they've refused to negotiate the entire range of issues as a package, these issues will drag on either until we all grow old or we all become malaysians/singaporeans, whichever comes first
its really sickening! but at least now, we are in a stronger position to tell them to shove their causeway bridge where the sun don't shine, show them the finger whenever our pilots "accidentally" fly over their airspace (no choice what! its such a small space...), kick their skinny brown ass out of tanjong pagar...
as for their CPF money, lets nationalise them and give out another round of new singapore shares
and we get still get water until 2061 anyway! don't want to get serious and negotiate properly nevermind lor... dare them to try anything stupid. -
im sure by 2061...we would have quite a lot of desalination and newater plants up and runnin and who knows?..we would be piping in water from indonesia already.. we would have been totally independant on water already..
so..we should juz let them bitch about ... not happy..bring us to ICJ den.. -
which i think is a REALLY stupid idea cos ICJ will just take FOREVER to get anything settled.
might as well start a war then send the losers to the war crime tribunal... faster processing... -
which i think is a REALLY stupid idea cos ICJ will just take FOREVER to get anything settled.
might as well start a war then send the losers to the war crime tribunal... faster processing... -
Let the ICJ take forever, we get to make them see red by selling us water at 0.03sen for every 1000 gallons.Originally posted by CX:which i think is a REALLY stupid idea cos ICJ will just take FOREVER to get anything settled.
might as well start a war then send the losers to the war crime tribunal... faster processing... -
During his visit in Jeddah, the Malaysian PM was reported to have said to have said that SGP buys raw water at 0.03 sen for every 1000 gallons, but make a huge profit by selling water at $25 for every 1000 gallons. He cannot accept the profit that SGP makes out of it.
At least we sell the treated water to the foreign maritime community - who are prepared to pay for HIGH QUALITY Treated Water that is guaranteed safe.
Yet he does not inform the world and his Johoreans that SGP sells treated water at a subsidised price of 0.50 sen per 1000 gallons to the Johor State Government - who then sells the same TREATED water to the Johor consumers at RM2.50 per 1000 gallons.
Neither the Malaysian Federal Government nor the Johor State Government have incurred any costs that justify the charging of RM2.50 per 1000 gallons to their own people, when the SGP side had to pay S$3.00 per 1000 gallons, and sell the same at 0.50sens per 1000 gallons to Johor.
This is not mentioned or highlighted to the Malaysian and International Communities.
Someone got to pay for the Infrastructure - it will be unreasonable for the Singaporean Taxpayers to do it, and if we can recover the costs from the operators of merchant ships that makes much more profit and who are not complaining about the price that SGP charges - WHY NOT..??? -
THat is why i always say.......Originally posted by Atobe:During his visit in Jeddah, the Malaysian PM was reported to have said to have said that SGP buys raw water at 0.03 sen for every 1000 gallons, but make a huge profit by selling water at $25 for every 1000 gallons. He cannot accept the profit that SGP makes out of it.
At least we sell the treated water to the foreign maritime community - who are prepared to pay for HIGH QUALITY Treated Water that is guaranteed safe.
Yet he does not inform the world and his Johoreans that SGP sells treated water at a subsidised price of 0.50 sen per 1000 gallons to the Johor State Government - who then sells the same TREATED water to the Johor consumers at RM2.50 per 1000 gallons.
Neither the Malaysian Federal Government nor the Johor State Government have incurred any costs that justify the charging of RM2.50 per 1000 gallons to their own people, when the SGP side had to pay S$3.00 per 1000 gallons, and sell the same at 0.50sens per 1000 gallons to Johor.
This is not mentioned or highlighted to the Malaysian and International Communities.
Someone got to pay for the Infrastructure - it will be unreasonable for the Singaporean Taxpayers to do it, and if we can recover the costs from the operators of merchant ships that makes much more profit and who are not complaining about the price that SGP charges - WHY NOT..???
Malaysia is damn suay to have a PM like him... with brain so small... even a monkey would be considered a genius when compared to him.....
Somemore... his party is THE largest overgrown LEECH that has bleed malaysia dry over the past decades!!....
cant that buffoon for once use his ass hole to think properly.....
IF singapore can make 25 bucks profit from selling every 1000 gallon of treated water to the foreign ships... SURELY malaysia can charge the same!!
OR are malaysia giving ships FREE water??? that cannot be right?? malaysia is so close to singapore... somemore...
AND lastly.. singapore isnt the ONLY port in the world... the shippers could choose to buy water from other ports that the ship would visit along its route to and from singapore....
Simple brain would immeditately realise that if singapore makes 25 bucks from selling water to shippers... MALAYSIA with its subsidies buyback of treated water from singapore COULD make a nicer 27.5 dollars from shippers!!! based on 25 dollar markup AND the 2.5 dollar subsidies that singapore sell back the water to johor!!!
WELL>..... THIS clearly confirm my belief that....
EITHER malaysians are damn unlucky to get a babboon as a PM....
OR.... the PM of malaysia believe that his countrymen are ALL STUPID babboons, and probably too stupid to realise his lies!!! thats why he can pull the wool over their small small eyes...
AND>... adding salt to insult... many malaysian LOVED HIM!!! -
actually he didnt sold the water back to his ppl at RM 2.50 lah..but they sold back to them at RM3.00
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Well, I think he is using his ass-hole to think because where else do you think all his shit ideas came from?Originally posted by tripwire:THat is why i always say.......
Malaysia is damn suay to have a PM like him... with brain so small... even a monkey would be considered a genius when compared to him.....
Somemore... his party is THE largest overgrown LEECH that has bleed malaysia dry over the past decades!!....
cant that buffoon for once use his ass hole to think properly.....
IF singapore can make 25 bucks profit from selling every 1000 gallon of treated water to the foreign ships... SURELY malaysia can charge the same!!
OR are malaysia giving ships FREE water??? that cannot be right?? malaysia is so close to singapore... somemore...
AND lastly.. singapore isnt the ONLY port in the world... the shippers could choose to buy water from other ports that the ship would visit along its route to and from singapore....
Simple brain would immeditately realise that if singapore makes 25 bucks from selling water to shippers... MALAYSIA with its subsidies buyback of treated water from singapore COULD make a nicer 27.5 dollars from shippers!!! based on 25 dollar markup AND the 2.5 dollar subsidies that singapore sell back the water to johor!!!
WELL>..... THIS clearly confirm my belief that....
EITHER malaysians are damn unlucky to get a babboon as a PM....
OR.... the PM of malaysia believe that his countrymen are ALL STUPID babboons, and probably too stupid to realise his lies!!! thats why he can pull the wool over their small small eyes...
AND>... adding salt to insult... many malaysian LOVED HIM!!!
Shit! Shit! Shit!
Oh boy! What a shit-head! And he's a "Constipated" type too. All hard-up and rotten to the core. Can see his face red already while trying to poo poo. -
Fucking sg (only for those whose post such immature and stupid things)-are the ones full of shits.Question: Who's drinking their own shits now?Malaysians or sg???